Ep3 review thread SPOILERS

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-05-20 06:05pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Xuenay wrote:
Firefox wrote:The "she's lost the will to live" is probably tied with "NOOOOO!" as the only annoying aspects of RotS. It just didn't seem right to me, that she would be fine, physically, but to die for some other reason? Come on. At least say Vader's force choke involved some manipulation of her internal organs, and that she suffered internal hemorrhaging of some sort.
With her in an (apparently) fully equipped hospital, being overseen by medical droids with the advantage of thousands of years of medical research... and then die by something as simple as an internal organ malfunction?

The "she's lost her will to live"-line was much more belivable, IMO.
Sometimes people just die of a broken heart...

I like to think that she died because of injuries caused by dark side power, that the medical team couldn't explain.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-05-20 06:08pm

The way the film intercut between his agony on the operating table and her rapid decline, I couldn't help but wonder if the two of them were somehow tied together through the Force. As he cried out in pain and despair, she felt it and it dragged her down somehow.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-20 06:09pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:I like to think that she died because of injuries caused by dark side power, that the medical team couldn't explain.

That's because you're not a romantic.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2005-05-20 06:40pm

Darth Wong wrote:The way the film intercut between his agony on the operating table and her rapid decline, I couldn't help but wonder if the two of them were somehow tied together through the Force. As he cried out in pain and despair, she felt it and it dragged her down somehow.

Marina pitched that theory too. I think it's correct; why would Padme suddenly lose her will to live otherwise? She wanted to raise the children, and was looking forward to being a mother. Furthermore, Palpatine told Anakin that his anger had killed Padme through the force; maybe he really was telling him the truth (it's clear from the movie that Palpatine had great insight into Anakin's mind). Perhaps his pain, anger, and feelings of abandonment as he laid on the operating table reached out to her and drained her life away. That would be keeping with the Greek tragic nature of his character; he embraced the dark side to save her, but it was that action that ultimately destroyed her.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-20 06:55pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: I already said; they're the firing cylinders for the proton torpedo.
Odd that the thing needs something like that. I never even saw them as proton torps given the lack of any real nuke blasts.

Its not unheard of for proton torpedoes to be penetrative weapons. And they do have shaped-charge effects, concentrating the blast into the target.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-20 06:56pm

Joe wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:The way the film intercut between his agony on the operating table and her rapid decline, I couldn't help but wonder if the two of them were somehow tied together through the Force. As he cried out in pain and despair, she felt it and it dragged her down somehow.
Marina pitched that theory too. I think it's correct; why would Padme suddenly lose her will to live otherwise? She wanted to raise the children, and was looking forward to being a mother. Furthermore, Palpatine told Anakin that his anger had killed Padme through the force; maybe he really was telling him the truth (it's clear from the movie that Palpatine had great insight into Anakin's mind). Perhaps his pain, anger, and feelings of abandonment as he laid on the operating table reached out to her and drained her life away. That would be keeping with the Greek tragic nature of his character; he embraced the dark side to save her, but it was that action that ultimately destroyed her.

And in parallel, I think its those same feelings, compounded with Padme's death, that leaves Vader a broken shell, incapable of reaching his potential.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-05-21 03:38am

I have just returned from watching the film. I can say that I liked it, and I need to see it again.

I found none of the Anakin-Padme scenes to be 'cringeworthy'. Where that useless bit of criticism came from, I don't know. Their relationship actually seems more genuine now than it did during AOTC (though I don't have problems there, either). There were some interesting shots and parallels, such as both of them on the operating tables at the end.

"NOOOOO!!!" What the hell's the big deal? Again, don't understand why people are seizing on something that isn't objectionable at all.

The opening battle was short, but I took it as backdrop and left it there. I did not care that we didn't see more of it. And I actually liked that they 'cut to the chase' so to speak.

Dooky got his arse whupped. Good riddance.

I wasn't disappointed by the length, because having Anakin dispatch him quickly ties in with the theme of 'useless apprentice being used as a pawn' by Palpatine.

Anakin's betrayal of Mace didn't seem as powerful as it could be. I'm not sure why.

My main criticism of the movie: shitty soundtrack. There were scenes in the movie that could have used better music, there were scenes in the movies that NEEDED music, but we had silence instead. I can't get more specific since this is only an initial reaction. Also the cinema I went to had lousy speakers IMO. A re-watch will benefit a more comprehensive review. But basically, I didn't like the sound or the music.

My favourite scenes: Palpatine talking to Anakin during the concert performance. In fact, most of the Palpatine scenes were excellent. As Palpatine, he's sneaky and subtle and slimy. As Sidious... he's a cakling madman, which I liked.

The Jedi massacre: I was a bit sad to see Aayla go, but I thought she had a line? I didn't hear anything. But the best scene on this part was the nameless Jedi padawan in the temple who kills a dozen troopers but then cuts down by a bolt to the chest. There was a Jedi who did his best to live... but his best wasn't good enough. Almost all the other backstabbings were done without warning, with the exception of Ki Adi Mundi (who went down like a bitch IMO).

Flippant criticism: I didn't like Padme's constant hair restyling. I would have liked to see her for most of the film in that bun hairdo we see her the first time.

All in all I really liked the film.

[EDIT] Oh yeah, and spoilers took a lot of the wind outta my sails. I don't think I will spoil myself ever again for a movie, nor pay double for tickets with only minor improvements to service.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-05-21 12:02pm

Joe wrote:Furthermore, Palpatine told Anakin that his anger had killed Padme through the force; maybe he really was telling him the truth

After seeing ROTS, I have a dificult time believing anything Palpatine says.

(it's clear from the movie that Palpatine had great insight into Anakin's mind).

If you ask me, Palpatine was FEEDING Anakin those visions of Padme dying. Its not much of an accomplishment to understand someone's thinking when you're delibrately showing him his worst nightmare over and over.

Perhaps his pain, anger, and feelings of abandonment as he laid on the operating table reached out to her and drained her life away. That would be keeping with the Greek tragic nature of his character; he embraced the dark side to save her, but it was that action that ultimately destroyed her.

That does make sense.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-05-21 12:05pm

Stofsk wrote:[EDIT] Oh yeah, and spoilers took a lot of the wind outta my sails. I don't think I will spoil myself ever again for a movie, nor pay double for tickets with only minor improvements to service.

I won my tickets for the midnight premeir from a local radio station.

nya-nya-nya-nya-nya-nya. ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha

Mark S · Post by **Mark S** » 2005-05-21 12:28pm

I really liked Revenge of the Sith. The action was good, the duels were good and aplenty, Yoda did his thing (smacking down the guards with a thought was great) and Palpatine stole the show. He was absolutely... insidious. I can't really expound much more on the good than has already been written. To me it was a satisfying end.

I'll give my buck-o-five on the things that I thought needed improvement though:

The word I would use to describe the opening space battle would be "lazy". It just didn't have the intensity it needed. Even in the heat of battle there didn't seem any urgency. Though I thought the smaller details were great, like actually seeing the pilot of a destroyed fighter in the wreckage while flying past.

Not necessarily an improvement point but something that fits in this scene: The buzz droids I thought more of as a confusion weapon. Something to spread the battlefield with so that they can do their thing and maybe take out a few ships but more importantly, distract other ships from concentrating on attack when they're trying to help their friends.

General Greivous was a none villian. He was just a flavour of the month and I had no emotional attachment to him either way. If you had seen only the movies he would be just a guy that pops up and we're told is evil. His only purpose seemed to be being killed.

The dialogue in the first third of the movie. Now, I actually disagree with the critics bashing the dialogue. I didn't think the lines were poor or that the acting was wooden or any of that. My finger is pointed directly at the editing of the scenes. The characters could only get one line out before cutting to the other character for his one line. It was like they had been filmed separately and spliced together. It was more a series of one-liners cut together than a back and forth. Having a scene look good for one actor and not the other and saying that you can clean it up in editing does not always work.

Another side note: I thought that Sidious was just feeding Anakin a line of bullshit with the whole, 'create life with the force' thing. He most likely knows Anakin is the Chosen One and wants to plant a little seed to strengthen the father/son feeling between the two. Give him the idea that he might have been created by the Sith all along. Just like him knowing how to prevent death was actually bullshit he used to string Anakin along. Either that or he actually does know how to prevent death and told Anakin that they'd have to learn it together to string him along and keep him docile.

I thought the temple massacre was cut too short. There should have been more scenes of clone vs padawan intersperced with the order 66 scenes. It would have been more dramatic. At the end scene with the youngling asking Anakin what to do, instead of cutting away right away, they should have shown the little guy's face transform into shear terror with the sound of the igniting and swinging sabre in the background.

Chewie was just completely unneccessary.

The NOOOO!!! at the end. While, again, I didn't mind the line itself, if you're going to have someone scream 'no' like that, they really have to give it their entire soul. JEJ just went half way imo.

Like others have said, the Qui-Gon Force ghost thing seemed tacked on. There should have been more to it.

None of this ruined the film for me or anything, and like I said, I really enjoyed it. Now it's over and I'll have to wait for the tv shows to come out for my next SW hit.

PS. When Yoda was crawling throught the pipe chase after his battle, did anyone else get Diehard flashbacks. "Sure! Come back to the captial, destroy a Sith lord, have a few laughs!"

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2005-05-21 01:27pm

Stofsk wrote:My main criticism of the movie: shitty soundtrack. There were scenes in the movie that could have used better music, there were scenes in the movies that NEEDED music, but we had silence instead. I can't get more specific since this is only an initial reaction. Also the cinema I went to had lousy speakers IMO. A re-watch will benefit a more comprehensive review. But basically, I didn't like the sound or the music.

Rewatched it the other day, and I gotta say, the only point I felt the music was lacking was at points during the opening battle, when Obi-Wan and Anakin were aboard the ship. Other then that, I felt the score was handled wonderfully. Especially during the last half, once things start falling apart for the Jedi and the Republic.

hough honestly, I don't think the new piece introduced, "Battle of Heroes" impressed me as much as "Duel of the Fates" and "Across the Stars" did when I first heard them. It was good though.

I'd forgotten what a good little theme Leia's theme was.

I streamed the score through AOL a couple times and have to say I enjoyed it. The overture has a nice rendition of the "Throne Room" from Episode IV.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-05-21 04:32pm

Just got back from seeing it.

Loved it. As others have said, the first half was kind of so-so, but when the Purge started, the movie just kicked into high gear and never stopped. The Purge itself was really a well-directed sequence.

As to Anakin's and Padme's romantic dialogue, there wasn't really any, and the stuff there was I had no problems with at all. Hell, personally, I found all the actors overall to be a lot more comfortable with their roles, especially Christensen and Portman.

The interspersal of Vader's creation and Padme's death was excellent. Right out of The Godfather. Speaking of, right after Obi-Wan dismembers Anakin and says, "You were my brother!", I half-expected him to say, "You broke my heart Anakin!" and give him the kiss of death.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-05-21 04:49pm

Stofsk wrote:
[EDIT] Oh yeah, and spoilers took a lot of the wind outta my sails. I don't think I will spoil myself ever again for a movie, nor pay double for tickets with only minor improvements to service.

Haha, you stupid SOB, I told you it was a bad idea. Let this be a lesson.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-21 04:57pm

General Greivous was a none villian. He was just a flavour of the month and I had no emotional attachment to him either way. If you had seen only the movies he would be just a guy that pops up and we're told is evil. His only purpose seemed to be being killed.

well that was he's main role/purpose in the Movie (even in SOD)

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2005-05-21 05:23pm

I liked it. Robots and laser beams, the two vital ingredients to a movie. If only there was a ninja.

I enjoyed the revelations that Anakin wasn't the imaculate conception and that the prophecy might of been interpreted wrong.

I also liked the romance dialogue. It clearly shows why Anakin fucks up. He's not in a stable relationship but an overly idealised one. Frankly, when on one side you have the guy who was a slave then a monk and on the other a girl who got into politics when everyone else gets into boys you shouldn't expect they could manage anything but corny lines. Each one is living a fantasy romance and doesn't have a clue what to do in a crisis.

The entire betrayal sequence as the Jedi are cut down was brillant. Most of the Jedi had a 'this can't be happening' expression just before they were cut down.

My only gripe was Padme's line "So this is how the republic dies. To thunderous applause." No, it's because you sat there like a bemused potato and said nothing you ignorant trollop! You and Bail Organa and all the other dumbfucks. However this is Star Wars and the focus is on action and heroic deeds not political campaigning.

I liked the movie, it rocked.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 05:25pm

My only gripe was Padme's line "So this is how the republic dies. To thunderous applause." No, it's because you sat there like a bemused potato and said nothing you ignorant trollop! You and Bail Organa and all the other dumbfucks. However this is Star Wars and the focus is on action and heroic deeds not political campaigning.

I thought that was actually was one of her best lines. I wish they had kept in the other parts of the "2,000 Senators" scenes, which do give them a more significant role.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-05-21 06:29pm

Saw it this mornong at the 7:30am showing.

The Good

The opening sequence is the BEST one in all the Wars films, even better than the running gun battle in ANH. That whole scene of Obi Wan and Anakin trying to get to the Invisible Hand and leading into the rescue was just great and I breathed one big ass sigh of relief at a general vibe that this baby was going to be good.

Heyden really grew into this role and won me over with his tortured portrayal of Anakin. My complaints about Anakin in this review are all laid on GL's writing not Heyden's acting. A big thumbs up from me.

The lightsaber duels. WOW. I honestly thought I'd get bored of them because really, just how many ways can you portray lightsaber duels that are new interesting and fresh? I was very happy with the end results. For instance I was waiting to cringe at seeing Palpatine's fighting style but was very impressed, spinning, stabbing strikes, nothing like what we've seen from the other Sith in the films. The Anakin Obi Wan Duel was FAST. FAST. FAST. Damn it was so fucking cool to see those blades moving so damned fast and with passion and fury behind them. You could barely catch the various strokes and parries. We didn't see them moving that fast even in the Qui Gon/Maul/Obi Wan duel in TPM. I was slightly disappointed that we didn't see a more sustained duel and that it was broken up by plot device contrived falling beams and exploding lava bullshit. I HATE when a good duel's rythm is broken up by what the writer thought would be interesting side action. NO fucker, I want to see two men trying to hack the shit out of each other with laser swords. I don't want to see people lava surfing and walking along spindly beams just looking at each menacingly. Compare the early part of the duel when Anakin and Obi Wan are whaling on each other and the latter part when they're walking around obstacles and jumping around to see what I mean.

Yoda and Palpatine was great and it really showed what two masters of the force can do to each other in a fight. Massive objects flung around at will and force lightning jumping cascades with not a care in the world. Which only leads me to think that Yoda and Obi Wan were on that special crack if they even believed for a SECOND that Luke could have defeated Palpy.

The Purge. That montage of Jedi being betrayed by their clone troops was probably some of the best stuff GL has ever put on film. It captured the emotion, the tragedy and the utter waste of life like no other sci fi film has and certainly the best shit I've seen from Star Wars.

Obi Wan and Anakin relationship. Now THAT is more like it. The AOTC Anakin and Obi Wan relationship only reinforces my bitter crtticism that TWO films were wasted in establishing their friendship. There was real camraderie and love between these two men and you felt for Obi Wan when he asked Yoda to send him after the Emperor instead because he could not bring himself to kill Anakin.

Anakin's interplay with Padme one last time. When he startes force choking her I exclaimed out loud "No!" I rarely ever do that in a film but it was a very emotional and tragic moment. Once again, the only other times we see its like is the Han freezing scene and the Vader/Luke final duel when Luke cries out "Never!"

The final montage with the music was BEAUTIFUL. It will never compare to the music of the closing of ESB and that scene of Luke and Leia together floating away but its damned damned close.

And despite all this praise there was plenty to villify....

The Bad

I DID NOT buy Anakin's conversion. Not for one fucking second. It pissed me the fuck off that Lucas dropped the ball on this one. How the hell does Anakin go from turning Palpy in, almost killing him where he stood to getting down on one knee and calling him master. Sorry. I DID NOT BUY IT. It seemed like Lucas just wrote "And then Anakin becomes a bad guy,...cue evil light switch."

Lucas promised a character study in how a good man turns bad and what we got instead was a head scratching moment of "Why are you kneeling down before this man and calling him master?" Palpy did not provide an IOTA of proof to his claims yet the Jedi had been Anakin's friends and mentors all his life.

Anakin goes from telling Obi Wan how sorry he is for being an arrogant little twat to kneeling before a man who he just helped kill one of his idols and benefactors.

It pissed me off. I so Wanted to see that transformation. To see that decision and change and all I got was that lousy scene.

I never ever thought i would be afraid of the Staypuft Sith Lord. That makeup for Palpy was attrocious. Yes I know it tracks with what we saw in ROTJ but I didn't like it then and I certainly didn't like it now. Awful.

Palpy's hissing and groveling made me groan outloud in his duel with Mace. What the hell?! I'm supposed to be afraid of this guy? "No...No...No..." UGH. That affected growling voice was hideous and then when you add the melting marsh mellow face you have nothng left to do but laugh at the most evil man in the galaxy. He became a charactiture.

General Grevious. What a fucking waste. Can we have seen "Plot device #455" pinned on his chest. He was there to die. That was it. His introduction in The Clone Wars promised so much and we got soooo little on screen.

Anakin killing the Younglings was a little heavy handed, Yes George I get it...he's eeevvviillll now just like the only way you could write him good was making him a whiney kid.

and to the truly grotesque

The Ugly

We were promised more Bail Organna charcterization in this movie. What we got was Bail Organna the Fed Ex delivery man. All he did was shuttle people back and forth and pick up one final special delivery and bring it to Alderaan. Sad waste of talent.

Good to see that Star Wars medical technology is stuck in the 70's. Cybernetic parts instead of cloned parts. No plastic surgery for the most powerful man in the galaxy. No contraception (Anakin and Padme). No way to deal with infertile couples (Bail and nameless wife). SIGH.

TPM looks even more fucking HORRIBLE now when you place it in comparison to this film. How can anyone defend that turd when you have a film like this to compare it to written and produced less than 10 years apart?

The prequels in general look bad compared to this film. Why couldn't we get this kind of story and emotional impact from the previous two? Why was one film just pissed away and the main protagonist's character development limited to this one film out of three. This movie is what the previous two should have been and now it just makes the other two seem so damned lacking.

In the end GL redeemed himself by giving us a very satisfying ending to the prequels, its just a shame that it took him this one last movie to get things right. Its also a damned shame that Anakin was short changed in terms of character development during this trilogy. Still I rate this one better than ROTJ. In the end it looks like this.

ESB, ANH, ROTS, ROTJ and AOTC (yes I refuse to even place TPM on this list)

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2005-05-21 06:45pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:I thought that was actually was one of her best lines. I wish they had kept in the other parts of the "2,000 Senators" scenes, which do give them a more significant role.

It's a good line, but still, for a avowed advocate of 'democracy' it comes off as weak.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-21 06:56pm

Stravo wrote:Good to see that Star Wars medical technology is stuck in the 70's. Cybernetic parts instead of cloned parts. No plastic surgery for the most powerful man in the galaxy. No contraception (Anakin and Padme). No way to deal with infertile couples (Bail and nameless wife). SIGH.

I don't really see this as a very justifiable complaint. Vader is already established as being 3/4th machine, so there's nothing to be done about that. Palpatine's appearence was also established, and there's still the possibility that it's the result of Force corruption, not injury from the lightning. Luke and Leia have to be born, and Leia has to be adopted.

But overall good to see that you liked it very much. For some reason your opinion was one of the ones I was interested in knowing the most.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-05-21 07:03pm

I

DID NOT buy Anakin's conversion. Not for one fucking second. It pissed me the fuck off that Lucas dropped the ball on this one. How the hell does Anakin go from turning Palpy in, almost killing him where he stood to getting down on one knee and calling him master. Sorry. I DID NOT BUY IT. It seemed like Lucas just wrote "And then Anakin becomes a bad guy,...cue evil light switch."

Lucas promised a character study in how a good man turns bad and what we got instead was a head scratching moment of "Why are you kneeling down before this man and calling him master?" Palpy did not provide an IOTA of proof to his claims yet the Jedi had been Anakin's friends and mentors all his life.

Anakin goes from telling Obi Wan how sorry he is for being an arrogant little twat to kneeling before a man who he just helped kill one of his idols and benefactors.

It pissed me off. I so Wanted to see that transformation. To see that decision and change and all I got was that lousy scene.

All that can be said against this complaint is that there were time constraints. I would have liked more emotional conflict there, but I think it was done as well as it could have been in the amount of film given (I personally thought Anakin's scene starring out from the council chamber beforehand built up to his conversion well, but it is true I would have liked to see more.)

Palpy's hissing and groveling made me groan outloud in his duel with Mace. What the hell?! I'm supposed to be afraid of this guy? "No...No...No..." UGH. That affected growling voice was hideous and then when you add the melting marsh mellow face you have nothng left to do but laugh at the most evil man in the galaxy. He became a charactiture.

The entire point of that scene was for him to look pathetic for Anakin. He did it well ( and I personally didnt mind the make-up.)

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2005-05-21 07:05pm

A fine film. Easily the surpasses the old ones. Lucas once again closes the Star Wars mythos with a resounding clap as the epic journey of a man and his son come full circle and all that jazz...

I think Stravo is just being a silly fanfic writer =D

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-05-21 07:05pm

I just saw the movie again, and it was much better the second time around.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-05-21 07:17pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:I
DID NOT buy Anakin's conversion. Not for one fucking second. It pissed me the fuck off that Lucas dropped the ball on this one. How the hell does Anakin go from turning Palpy in, almost killing him where he stood to getting down on one knee and calling him master. Sorry. I DID NOT BUY IT. It seemed like Lucas just wrote "And then Anakin becomes a bad guy,...cue evil light switch."

Lucas promised a character study in how a good man turns bad and what we got instead was a head scratching moment of "Why are you kneeling down before this man and calling him master?" Palpy did not provide an IOTA of proof to his claims yet the Jedi had been Anakin's friends and mentors all his life.

Anakin goes from telling Obi Wan how sorry he is for being an arrogant little twat to kneeling before a man who he just helped kill one of his idols and benefactors.

It pissed me off. I so Wanted to see that transformation. To see that decision and change and all I got was that lousy scene.
All that can be said against this complaint is that there were time constraints. I would have liked more emotional conflict there, but I think it was done as well as it could have been in the amount of film given (I personally thought Anakin's scene starring out from the council chamber beforehand built up to his conversion well, but it is true I would have liked to see more.)

Ahhh...but in ROTJ working under the same time constraints Lucas provides us with a very believable in character conversion moment for Luke. Vader just threatened his sister, his friends are being massacred in battle and they've been turning the screws on him double team style.

Anakin....sort of gets mad because the Emperor kind of says that he MIGHT have this power that COULD keep the people he loves from dying so he sort of gets on his knees to be an apprentice to someone after helping to kill one of his mentors and BTW this is after basically having a melt down a few scenes ealrier for not being dubbed a Master is now willing without hesittation to become an apprentice again?

Not to mention that he believes Palpy's lies over the Jedi lies? Palpy is a sith lord, has lied to him from day one. The Jedi raised him and only now is he suspecting that they're lying to him. So who do you throw your lot in with? The staypuft Sithlord man who lied to you, deep fried a mentor after you disarmed him or the group of people that raised you, one of whom you look on as a brother or father figure?

Pure Sabacc wrote:
Palpy's hissing and groveling made me groan outloud in his duel with Mace. What the hell?! I'm supposed to be afraid of this guy? "No...No...No..." UGH. That affected growling voice was hideous and then when you add the melting marsh mellow face you have nothng left to do but laugh at the most evil man in the galaxy. He became a charactiture.
The entire point of that scene was for him to look pathetic for Anakin. He did it well ( and I personally didnt mind the make-up.)

Its not so much the groveling as it was the whole over the top malevolence, hissing and especially the voice. Palpy in ROTJ had a soft seductive voice that only turned over the top cackling evil near the end. This was over the top from go.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-21 07:19pm

Stravo wrote:I DID NOT buy Anakin's conversion. Not for one fucking second. It pissed me the fuck off that Lucas dropped the ball on this one. How the hell does Anakin go from turning Palpy in, almost killing him where he stood to getting down on one knee and calling him master. Sorry. I DID NOT BUY IT. It seemed like Lucas just wrote "And then Anakin becomes a bad guy,...cue evil light switch."

Lucas promised a character study in how a good man turns bad and what we got instead was a head scratching moment of "Why are you kneeling down before this man and calling him master?" Palpy did not provide an IOTA of proof to his claims yet the Jedi had been Anakin's friends and mentors all his life.

Anakin goes from telling Obi Wan how sorry he is for being an arrogant little twat to kneeling before a man who he just helped kill one of his idols and benefactors.

Are you for real? What did you expect him to choose? Let's examine. First he has a choice between Mace Windu and Palpatine; the latter is a mentor, a friend, and a confidant who has looked over him since he was 9 and arrived on Coruscant. Mace Windu is a man who always opposed his growth, and incessantly tried to obstruct Anakin with nothing but bullshit doctrinaire reasons. Windu belittled and humiliated him publically for no other cogent reason other than apparently not liking one of his friends and offering ZERO reason behind it. Anakin DOES decide to betray a trusted friend and mentor to Windu, and what does Mace do? "Come with me, Anakin, together we will end this deception and you will fulfill your destiny"? NO. "If what you say is true, you will have gained my trust." What the hell?

Moreover, the Jedi had no options to offer him about Padme; what is Yoda's brilliant advice for what do when you're afraid of losing your friends? Lose them? What kind of shit is that?

And last but not least, the Jedi WERE PLANNING TO COUP THE GOVERNMENT. Did you miss the whole Council exchange with the fact that the Jedi apparently thought that they could remove the Supreme Chancellor NOT on account of him being a Sith Lord - they did not know that yet - but because they did not like the fact he retained emergancy powers constitutionally levied to him by the Senate. The Jedi were about to betray law, order, the Senate, and the Republic because they did not like the Chancellor's politics. Palpatine was COMPLETELY right.

Moreover, when it came down to it, Windu uses THE EXACT SAME JUSTIFICATION that Palpatine did for Anakin killing Dooku in cold blood to justify murdering Palpatine - "He is too dangerous to be left alive." He even was willing to break the Code. And Anakin? What was he supposed to do about his wife and child. It was completely believable.

And its not like he felt great about it afterward - he immediately said "what have I done?" and reluctantly submitted to Palpatine - why? "I'll do whatever you want, just help me save Padme."

Stravo wrote:I never ever thought i would be afraid of the Staypuft Sith Lord. That makeup for Palpy was attrocious. Yes I know it tracks with what we saw in ROTJ but I didn't like it then and I certainly didn't like it now. Awful.

What the fuck were they supposed to do? Make him look different than ROTJ?

Stravo wrote:Anakin killing the Younglings was a little heavy handed, Yes George I get it...he's eeevvviillll now just like the only way you could write him good was making him a whiney kid.

It was very effective. He didn't even show it.

Stravo wrote:We were promised more Bail Organna charcterization in this movie. What we got was Bail Organna the Fed Ex delivery man. All he did was shuttle people back and forth and pick up one final special delivery and bring it to Alderaan. Sad waste of talent.

Sadly his, Mothma's, and Padme's forming of the beginning of the rebellion was cut.

Stravo wrote:Good to see that Star Wars medical technology is stuck in the 70's. Cybernetic parts instead of cloned parts.

Well, this has been a problem since the original Darth Vader.

Stravo wrote:No plastic surgery for the most powerful man in the galaxy.

Even if he had, it wouldn't have shown up in the couple weeks depicted in the film. This isn't even a ROTS critique.

Stravo wrote:No contraception (Anakin and Padme).

How the hell would you ever have floated the conception of Luke and Leia?

Stravo wrote:No way to deal with infertile couples (Bail and nameless wife).

Maybe they wanted to adopt if they couldn't have a child naturally.

Stravo wrote:TPM looks even more fucking HORRIBLE now when you place it in comparison to this film. How can anyone defend that turd when you have a film like this to compare it to written and produced less than 10 years apart?

The prequels in general look bad compared to this film. Why couldn't we get this kind of story and emotional impact from the previous two? Why was one film just pissed away and the main protagonist's character development limited to this one film out of three. This movie is what the previous two should have been and now it just makes the other two seem so damned lacking.

THIS IS NOT ROTS COMMENTARY.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-05-21 08:30pm

Ok so...i've finally seen my last Star Wars.

Wow, it was good. Very good. Not GREAT, mind you, but very good and i intend to see it again (the Digital was sold out, i saw teh regular version).

Firstly the Good:

Anakin murdering the Younglings really stuck me in the heart, i dont know why, they didnt even show it, but somehow it really...hurt or something. I thought it was a nicely done, if somewhat terrifying, scene to have the lightsaber ignite just as it cuts with that kid looking at it like "What's that mr. Skywalker?" thats just how i always saw it in my mind.

Anakin's burning was...grotesque...and perfect.

I almost came in my pants when Darth Vader took that first breath, man. I made this high-pitched squeel like sound and sort of clapped, and my mom looked over at me like "Dude, you gonna' be alright to drive after this?"

Obi Wan's little speach was very well delivered, *voice quivering* "You were supposed to be the Chosen One! You were supposed to crush the Sith not join them...to bring balance to the Force not lead it into darkness...you were my brother, i loved you!"

Yoda vs Palpatine was just fucking SWEET! Yoda would have won if he hadnt fallen and hurt himself (he lands pretty hard on his back). And Mace vs Palpatine was so fun...Sam Jackson was great in the movies as Mace Windu and in this one he gets to bitch smack Palpy the Staypuff Sith Lord around like they're in prison. Jackson went stricktly ghetto on his evil alien ass! I thought he was gonna' sceram "This is for my nigga' Biggie Smalls, beeyoch!"

When General Order 66 went down...man that was so fucking powerful. It was one of those fozen in time moments in the film for me, when they started killing Jedi one by one, and Anakin/Vader marches on the Jedi Temple all Nazi goosestep style with an army of Clones.

The ending, with Own and Breu standing and watching the suns set, was brilliant. I reconized the scene instantly as a take off from the one in New Hope. Just brilliant. The music--brilliant. All of it, just so well done and meaningful.

Finally...wookiees. What more needs be said. Fucking WOOKIES man!

The Bad

Man...was that conversation between Anakin and Padme near the begining awkward. "Oh yeah i had a dream where you died." i was like, what? You're telling this to your pregnant wife why?

Anakin's conversion to the Sith was BS. He's not that stupid, he should have seen through Palpatine's shit when he said "Together we will find the secret". Find? Mothafucker i thought you said you knew? Now i done killed my fucking boss, pissed off the Jedi...and you dont even know what the hell you were talking about!?

Am i the only one who found teh 'fight on forcefield plants on a sea of lava' thing a bit TOO badass? I mean, ok, they're Jedi they're badasses. I get it. I mean, it kind of seemed almost comical.

The space battle at the begining was lackluster. This is the last fucking Star Wars...EVER. I wanted to see some battles like in Clone Wars, with millions of ships and fighters and jetpack spacetroopers with proton torpedo cannons and swarms of droid starfighters all raging across the sky, with guns from the planet below blazing, and ships exploding like suns left and right.

And uh...yeah right, Palpy just happens to know how to create life...and oh! Look! Your wife is dying...i just happened to know that, even though there is no conceiveable way that i could possibly have found out. Riiight. I'll buy that for a dollar

They had the Wookiees in it for like TWO SECONDS! What the sam hell! Come on, Wookiees, for God's sake the battle scenes write themselves you could have filled about twenty minuets of screen time with Wookiees and Yoda vs Clones and it would have kicked the HELL out of the awsome battle sequineces in Attack of the Clones! No...we get like ten seconds, ten measely seconds, of Wookiees versus...*yawn* droids. What a waste.

The Ugly

The hell kind of death for Padme is that? Did Anakin kill her? Did the Dark Side? Did she give up her life for Anakin? What?

Leia's adoptive father sure was a tool.

What kind of ending is that!? "Mmmm, found immortality Qui Gon has, yes, mmmm, show us he will" excuse me, wha? Who? Did what you say? From what region of left field did this largely useless peice of info come from again?

Worst of all...this is the last Star Wars movie. Ever. Shit...i sat in the theater till the end of the credits just thinking about how much of my short life SW has occupied and now part of it is gone. That is a sad, sad thing for me. Where will i ware my custom airbrushed "My Other Starship Is The Millennium Falcon" shirt now