The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

[TrekkieJeff2000]

Were the dewbacks in that scene in the original cut, or added in the Special Edition?

(in case anyone is having trouble recalling, this is the 'look sir, droids' scene where the stormtroopers are investigating the escape pod, and I guess R2 or 3PO lost a component in the crash and it's never brought up ever again)

Yeah, animals are used by police forces, but typically for crowd control purposes or to use their senses. Maybe I need to rewatch those Mando episodes, as I can't remember why you wouldn't just use a speeder like Luke did.

I believe that the dewbacks were added in the special addition. If I remember correctly in the original they maybe had them faintly in the background but during the special addition you saw them being ridden and moving around.

[Khaat]

There was one on-set dewback prop in the original film - it was on the distant sand ridgeline in one shot (with mounted stormtrooper, never moved), then stationary right outside the bar in another (no rider). Special Edition added more, closer, to the first scene/shot, and removed/animated one (same location) in the second scene.

[Broomstick]

Were the dewbacks in that scene in the original cut, or added in the Special Edition?

Added later. They were not in the original theater release.

[Gandalf]

Just because the 'beasts' were local doesn't mean the 'Imperials' were. They could've just availed themselves of local transportation, which in this case meant riding animals.
Back in Imperial India there were Englishmen riding elephants. Doesn't mean they brought'em with them. Arabia and camels. Just because people avail themselves of local animal transportation doesn't mean they're natives.

Indeed. All it would take is some sort of local Imperial Navy office there who might know where to get good riding animals, while at the same time being a local point for recruiters, police, or what have you.

[Lord Revan]

Just because the 'beasts' were local doesn't mean the 'Imperials' were. They could've just availed themselves of local transportation, which in this case meant riding animals.
Back in Imperial India there were Englishmen riding elephants. Doesn't mean they brought'em with them. Arabia and camels. Just because people avail themselves of local animal transportation doesn't mean they're natives.

Indeed. All it would take is some sort of local Imperial Navy office there who might know where to get good riding animals, while at the same time being a local point for recruiters, police, or what have you.

And it's not like it's the only time people have taken advantage of local wildlife as mounts (the Tauntauns were native to Hoth at least in legends)

[Patroklos]

Jabba may be dead, but his palace stands, and his contacts are still on Tatooine. Institutional inertia is a thing. Si Bibble has no reason to uproot his new empire for giggles.

There is only one Jabba Cartel in a galaxy of 400 billion stars, trillions of planets, and billions of settled worlds, and that cartel is centered on Tatooine.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=170376

Jabba once just one of many Hutts operating in "Hutt Space." There is nothing that suggests Jabba has anything to do with anything but a statistically irrelevant number of those billions of settled worlds. All of Hutt space makes up a similarly statistically irrelevant number of those billions of settled worlds.

In fact, we have examples like Black Sun that show what a true galaxy-wide crime syndicate looks like, and Jabba's ain't it. Plot-wise there is no reason to require Jabba to be a big shot. The only reason he is important as that Han had a business dealing with him valuable enough to but a contract out on his head, and Han is linked to the main plot by nothing but coincidence, and none of that changes whether Jabba is your corner street pimp of crime family mafioso.

We think he is a big deal because he is in the movie. This franchise has a bad history of every homeless person in the background eventually getting some grand backstory of being a deposed prince of whatever or actually a Jedi master with amnesia. Some people are just what they appear to be.

The Imperials know about Tatooine because of the immediate circumstances. The only reason Leia went there was that Kenobi was there. Kenobi was only there because Luke was stashed there. Luke was stashed it was no stoplight town where he could grow up out of the way and unknown. It was a backwater POS nobody had any business visiting that could be predicted. In fact, Anakin being from there makes this more the case because if there was anyone who would know how backwater it is it's him, and if there is any place I would think Vader would never return to it would be his shithole slave world he escaped from and has nothing but bad memories.

[Galvatron]

Jabba once just one of many Hutts operating in "Hutt Space." There is nothing that suggests Jabba has anything to do with anything but a statistically irrelevant number of those billions of settled worlds. All of Hutt space makes up a similarly statistically irrelevant number of those billions of settled worlds.

Are we ignoring TCW then?

[Patroklos]

We should, but no. Nothing in TCW is at odds with my assessment. Just because the specifics of a situation's time and place caused them to appear onscreen does not mean they are prolific or powerful everywhere else. Or even anywhere else.

This extrapolation via propinquity is a tired fandom exercise. Do you want more wanktastic Boba Fetts? Because that's how you get wanktastic Boba Fetts.

[Galvatron]

So are we just hand waving the fact that Jabba was a big enough player in the galactic underworld to warrant this?

[chimericoncogene]

Jabba once just one of many Hutts operating in "Hutt Space." There is nothing that suggests Jabba has anything to do with anything but a statistically irrelevant number of those billions of settled worlds.

I would put Jabba on the top ten list of great Hutt Crime Lords. He has a big seat on the Hutt Council.

I shall rephrase. In a galaxy of four hundred billion suns, there are only a dozen or so great Hutt crime lords, and one of them has centered his petty empire on Tatooine.

[Patroklos]

So are we just hand waving the fact that Jabba was a big enough player in the galactic underworld to warrant this?

I am not sure what about that scene you think invalidates what I have said.

Jabba once just one of many Hutts operating in "Hutt Space." There is nothing that suggests Jabba has anything to do with anything but a statistically irrelevant number of those billions of settled worlds.

I would put Jabba on the top ten list of great Hutt Crime Lords. He has a big seat on the Hutt Council.

I shall rephrase. In a galaxy of four hundred billion suns, there are only a dozen or so great Hutt crime lords, and one of them has centered his petty empire on Tatooine.

That's like saying in on a planet of 1 million jurisdictions, there are ten pot dealers one the Sheboygan community college campus, and one of them picked the freshman dorm to center his dealings on.

The scale of SW is what it is. If you can't show all of Hutt space is particularly significant, it's an impossible task to show that any subdivision of it is. And as a general rule, if it in the Outer Rim it's not significant under normal circumstances.

[Galvatron]

This is from the opening scene of The Clone Wars movie:

Palpatine: "We must help Jabba. This is the opportunity we've been looking for. The Jedi must rescue Jabba's son."

Mace Windu: "I don't like it, dealing with that criminal scum. This is a dark day for the Republic."

Palpatine: "I agree, my friend, but what choice do we have? The Hutts control the Outer Rim, and we'll need their space lanes in order to move our troops."

While I am aware that the whole thing was ultimately a sinister machination of Palpatine's, I don't see how that matters. It wouldn't have any bearing on the factuality of his statement if it's common knowledge.

[Patroklos]

We know the Hutts don't control the entire Outer Rim regardless of what Palpatine says, so it's irrelevant. Hell, a good portion if not most of the Separatists were freaking BASED out of the Outer Rim, putting an instant lie to that assertion.

[LadyTevar]

This is from the opening scene of The Clone Wars movie:

Palpatine: "We must help Jabba. This is the opportunity we've been looking for. The Jedi must rescue Jabba's son."

Mace Windu: "I don't like it, dealing with that criminal scum. This is a dark day for the Republic."

Palpatine: "I agree, my friend, but what choice do we have? The Hutts control the Outer Rim, and we'll need their space lanes in order to move our troops."

While I am aware that the whole thing was ultimately a sinister machination of Palpatine's, I don't see how that matters. It wouldn't have any bearing on the factuality of his statement if it's common knowledge.

Those Space Lanes were important enough that Palpatine didn't WANT the Republic having access to them. Why deny a Resource that "didn't matter" and was 'out of the way'?

[Galvatron]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant, but Palpatine was acting in his capacity and public persona as the leader of the Republic in that scene. Dooku was competing for Jabba's favor as well.

[chimericoncogene]

We know the Hutts don't control the entire Outer Rim regardless of what Palpatine says, so it's irrelevant. Hell, a good portion if not most of the Separatists were freaking BASED out of the Outer Rim, putting an instant lie to that assertion.

The map has Hutt Space encompassing a respectable volume, maybe I dunno, a sixth of the Outer Rim? Presumably they also have influence in sector governments elsewhere.

The Seppies control the rest of the Mid/Outer Rim (back in ye republic days, large chunks of the Outer Rim was neutral/Hutt, and Tatooine was not a Republic world).

Rothana and Kamino are beyond the Outer Rim, practically in Wild Space. Where do you think the SLOCs go?

Jabba was portrayed as a pretty big fish in a medium sized pond. Not quite a boss of the whole Outer Rim, but with Senatorial level (sector level) influence at least - enough that Palpatine tried talking to him directly.

[Galvatron]

It's also conceivable that Palpatine was only referring to the criminal underworld of the Outer Rim.

[chimericoncogene]

We know the Hutts don't control the entire Outer Rim regardless of what Palpatine says, so it's irrelevant. Hell, a good portion if not most of the Separatists were freaking BASED out of the Outer Rim, putting an instant lie to that assertion.

The map has Hutt Space encompassing a respectable volume, maybe I dunno, a third of the Outer Rim? Presumably they also have influence in sector governments elsewhere. They're more of a mob with fingers in planetary and sector governments than an official government, but those governments can declare armed neutrality and whatnot.

The Seppies control the rest of the Mid/Outer Rim (back in ye republic days, large chunks of the Outer Rim was neutral/Hutt, and Tatooine was not a Republic world).

Rothana and Kamino are beyond the Outer Rim, practically in Wild Space (Rothana is just at the end of the Correlian, just beyond Rishi, "north" of Tatooine, Kamino has been erased from the map but is in the vicinity). Where do you think the SLOCs go?

Jabba was portrayed as a pretty big fish in a medium sized pond. Not quite a boss of the whole Outer Rim, but with Senatorial level (sector level) influence at least - enough that Palpatine tried talking to him directly.

[Lord Revan]

As for Tattooine not being a Republic word from what I've gathered from the Episode 1 novelization (and I dunno if that's canon anymore) Tattooine was a de jure Republic world with a governor and all but was de facto independent/neutral and under control of the Hutts with governor having no real authority.

We should also remember that what things were during the Clone Wars might not be the same as how things were during the imperial era, it's possible that Hutt clans were in fact de facto rulers of large portion of the republic space but due to their involvement with shadow collective the Hutts also most of that influence during the imperial era.

[Crazedwraith]

*Snip map*

Tangentially that map seems terrible. Tatooine and Coruscant are wildly different directions from Naboo and yet the latter was not far off the course to the former in TPM.

[Patroklos]

From the same source as that map, most of the time they show Hutt Space to be 1/3 of that, which as you said is only roughly 1/3 of the Outer Rim rather than the entire thing as claimed.

Those maps are utter shit shows anyway. Whose bright idea was it to make the Unknown Regions half the damn galaxy, and so close to the core that they are next door to Coruscant itself? Did nobody ever decides to go that direction for 25000 years while expanding to the outer edges of the other half of the galaxy?

[chimericoncogene]

Unknown regions are now traditionally believed to be behind an artificial hyperspace wall. The Deep Core is usually depicted as unnavigable. Presumably, Hutt Space shrinks whenever the Core asserts itself. Once the Central Government cracks down, Governers get spines, and take bribes discreetly instead of in the open. Hiding and unhiding bribes can happen in mere years. Hutts aren't conquerors or administrators after all.

[Galvatron]

The planetary locations on that map are also at odds with the one in Pablo Hidalgo's TROS VD.

[chimericoncogene]

The planetary locations on that map are also at odds with the one in Pablo Hidalgo's TROS VD.

Because Disney Canon sucks balls and dumping the Legends map did nobody any favors.

Tangentially that map seems terrible. Tatooine and Coruscant are wildly different directions from Naboo and yet the latter was not far off the course to the former in TPM.

The map seems right. To get from Naboo to Coruscant, you follow the circumferential hyperlane north (spinward???) to the junction at Tatooine, take a left, and follow the Correllian Run down to Coruscant. You could go south (antispinward???) along the circumferential hyperlane and then follow the Hydian down to Coruscant, but they went the other way.

The shortest distance along the hyperlane network isn't always a straight line. Heavily mapped hyperlanes are presumably faster and cheaper than slogging it off-road.

[Crazedwraith]

Tangentially that map seems terrible. Tatooine and Coruscant are wildly different directions from Naboo and yet the latter was not far off the course to the former in TPM.

The map seems right. To get from Naboo to Coruscant, you follow the circumferential hyperlane north (spinward???) to the junction at Tatooine, take a left, and follow the Correllian Run down to Coruscant. You could go south (antispinward???) along the circumferential hyperlane and then follow the Hydian down to Coruscant, but they went the other way.

The shortest distance along the hyperlane network isn't always a straight line. Heavily mapped hyperlanes are presumably faster and cheaper than slogging it off-road.

Hyperlanes are EU horseshit and I did look for that kind of horseshit but the map is so busy I couldn't make out there was a route going that way under the territory blobs.