Eclipse vs Executors

[CmdrWilkens]

The ESSD figure however is consistent with everything otherwise noted on the Eclipse, in other words there is no reason to believe the WEG numbers on the ESSD don't apply to the vessel in question

You mean beyond the fact that the ESSD is supposed to be way more powerfull not only due to it's superlaser, but could also take on entire fleets and win, something the Executor could not.

The Executor is able to take on entire fleets on its own. The fact that the ENTIRE Rebel Fleet managed to knock out one section of shields which are capable of taking the hyperspace dropout ramming of 3 ISDs speaks nothing about combat against standard size fleets.

So? If I have a weapon that outputs, in one shot, the same energy as 20 velles firing multiple volleys then I've got a strong ass weapon. You basically shot yourself in the ass here, 1e25J per shot is still MULTIPLE orders of magnitude greater than any other weapon in the conventional Imperial inventory which, alone, justifies its existence

It's still too low, because the combined firepower of the Death Squadron is a minimum of 3e26j, they couldn't down the shield on Hoth in a reasonable time-frame, the Eclipse could not only shatter entire planetary shields(let alone the Hoth shield), it still had atleast somewhere along 1e26j left over that could vaporize continents or crack planetary crusts(possibly even causing planetary shattering).

Therefore I think that an absolute minimum is 3e26j> and a more logical 4e29j> even that might be too small.

Now I did state that 1e29J range isn't all that bad since it would have a DS firepower in the 1e43J range under my system. However the SL in question, during a quality fight, will not come into play.

[His Divine Shadow]

Master of Ossus: "The Eclipse has a much greater surface area than the Executor, and has successfully engaged entire fleets of starships."

Fleets of starships.. where? Weren't both of them just blown up?

Example: Empire's End. Look at the battle scene. That's an entire rebel fleet attacking Eclipse II.

Vice RotJ where, to quote Ackbar later in Truce at Bakura, the "entire" Rebel fleet was neccessarry to engage at Endor. The difference between A fleet and the ENTIRE fleet is important.

It was not the entire fleet, refer to the briefing before in ROTJ.

[His Divine Shadow]

The Executor is able to take on entire fleets on its own. The fact that the ENTIRE Rebel Fleet managed to knock out one section of shields which are capable of taking the hyperspace dropout ramming of 3 ISDs speaks nothing about combat against standard size fleets.

I've not seen the Executor be able to take on entire fleets yet, it failed when a dozen of so capital ships engaged it.
Also it's stated to be worth about 20 ISD's

Your implication that the entire rebel fleet, as in every ship they got was going there is irrelevant because it doesn't matter if the entire rebel fleet at ROTJ is a dozen or so capships when a standard rebel fleet in Empires end could be a few dozen ships for all we know.

And add to this that the whole rebel fleet did not engage the Executor, read what they say during the briefing, they got fleets engaging the imperials all over the galaxy.

And they engaged all the ships, the Executors forward shields failed with a few concentrated barrages while in Empires End the whole fleet as I understand it was going after the Eclipse the whole time.

[Master of Ossus]

Executor class ships in the books have had difficulty engaging a group of capital starships made up of less than TEN major warships on numerous occasions. This indicates that Executors have the ability to reliably engage no more than 10, but no fewer than six capital warships simultaneously. The Eclipse we saw in action held far more starships for a longer period of time.

[His Divine Shadow]

Executor class ships in the books have had difficulty engaging a group of capital starships made up of less than TEN major warships on numerous occasions. This indicates that Executors have the ability to reliably engage no more than 10, but no fewer than six capital warships simultaneously. The Eclipse we saw in action held far more starships for a longer period of time.

How many really? And where there other imperial ships around too?

[Illuminatus Primus]

And they engaged all the ships, the Executors forward shields failed with a few concentrated barrages while in Empires End the whole fleet as I understand it was going after the Eclipse the whole time.

Wrong. It was a couple hundred fighters and an ancient equivalent of a frigate.

The idea was distract so the Falcon could slip under the shields while fighters were disembarking.

It was not the entire New Repubic fleet.

Most of the New Republic Defense Force was organized in hundreds of little self-sufficient and independent task forces in what remained of their territory in the Outer Rim and assault fleets aiding in the sieges of several Imperial shipyard and fortress worlds.

The force at Onderon was mainly a contingent of fighters possibly operating at a base within enemy lines or possibly NR territory still extended that far toward the center.

The Eclipse we saw in action held far more starships for a longer period of time.

They were all fighters, and judging from visuals, no more than a wing or so. At most a couple hundred fighters and an ancient warship the size of a Nebulon B Escort frigate.

Our scale of largest engagements with an Executor-class involved either one of the engagements with Warlord Zsinj, or the Lusankya's last mission, where she held off an entire Yuuzhan Vong fleet around the worldship without guns while she embarked on her ramming mission.

The Executor is able to take on entire fleets on its own. The fact that the ENTIRE Rebel Fleet managed to knock out one section of shields which are capable of taking the hyperspace dropout ramming of 3 ISDs speaks nothing about combat against standard size fleets.

I've not seen the Executor be able to take on entire fleets yet, it failed when a dozen of so capital ships engaged it.
Also it's stated to be worth about 20 ISD's

The Lusankya is a special case. Many of her guns were removed as well as the ship having to neccessitate the shunting of power (as well as having to make room for the repulsorlift cradle) to engines and the repulsorlift bed (it had to sustain accelerations to be Palpatine's "getaway" vehicle and it had to be able to accelerate clear of the atmosphere).

Additionally much of the ship's enterior had been modified to act as Isard's private prision and it had been another drop-off of Palpatine's private treasures (IIRC).

It was not a standard Executor-class.

Your implication that the entire rebel fleet, as in every ship they got was going there is irrelevant because it doesn't matter if the entire rebel fleet at ROTJ is a dozen or so capships when a standard rebel fleet in Empires end could be a few dozen ships for all we know.

There was no Rebel fleet in Empire's End, please read the comic. There were only a wing at worst and a couple hundred at best of fighters.

And add to this that the whole rebel fleet did not engage the Executor, read what they say during the briefing, they got fleets engaging the imperials all over the galaxy.

"With the [Imperial] Fleet spread throughout the galaxy in a vain effort to engage us, it is relatively unprotected." - Mon Mothma

The Empire was spread around trying to engage the Rebels. She says nothing of their fleet, but the EU has verified with an Ackbar briefing: "We have gathered nearly the entire Rebel Alliance Fleet."

And they engaged all the ships, the Executors forward shields failed with a few concentrated barrages while in Empires End the whole fleet as I understand it was going after the Eclipse the whole time.

Bull. You don't know how much punishment the Executor had already taken, we know some of fleet were already engaging it, and Ackbar suddenly ordered all the fireships to ram the Executor and all of the capital ships and bombers to concentrate their fire on the Executor.

The Eclipse II was engaged with a few hundred fighters at most. UNder no circumstances did we see the Eclipse or the Eclipse II engage in a full fleet engagement anywhere in the series.

[Master of Ossus]

In EGVV, we see that the Eclipse could take on fleets of ships by itself, something which is not accredited to the Executor class starships. We also hear that the Eclipse's shields and armor are so strong that the ship can ram other starships in combat without hesitation.

[His Divine Shadow]

We know this, Eclipses are far superior to Executors, it's more powerfull, you're not seriously entertaining the idea that a piddly Executor class(only piddly next to an Eclipse, even though Executors aren't that hot given their bulk) would stand up to an Eclipse would you?
You seem to be showing that impression...
That would be pretty much ignoring evidence.

The Eclipse is said to be able to take on enemy fleets and win, the Executor has not been able to do this as MoO has showed.

We know for that the Eclipses reactor is capable of more output than 1 Executor and 5 ISD's to it's main weapon only, this alone confers it with a humoungous advantage.

Our scale of largest engagements with an Executor-class involved either one of the engagements with Warlord Zsinj, or the Lusankya's last mission, where she held off an entire Yuuzhan Vong fleet around the worldship without guns while she embarked on her ramming mission.

The Lusankya's shields failed not that far into the mission and the attacks where hitting home on the hull, she was pretty much a useless hulk when the she got to the ship.
The first time she engaged them she was facing shield loss when she jumped into the middle of the fleet.

But anyhow, the Eclipse was faced with a hundred fighters and they did diddly jack shit zero sip nada zilch to it, the Executor was attacked by oh 40-60 fighters or so IIRC, in The Bacta War and got hit with a 20 fighter class torpedoes and 60 capital ones and they collapsed the bow shields.

Yuuzhan Vong comparisons are suspect too given we know so little of their abilities.

[CmdrWilkens]

Vice RotJ where, to quote Ackbar later in Truce at Bakura, the "entire" Rebel fleet was neccessarry to engage at Endor. The difference between A fleet and the ENTIRE fleet is important.

It was not the entire fleet, refer to the briefing before in ROTJ.

Really? You found something in RotJ during the breifing where they say they won't be using the entire fleet? Ackbar states, without pause, that the ENTIRE rebel fleet was at Endor so perhaps you could tell me why you are bringing up the breifing to counter that point?

[CmdrWilkens]

In EGVV, we see that the Eclipse could take on fleets of ships by itself, something which is not accredited to the Executor class starships. We also hear that the Eclipse's shields and armor are so strong that the ship can ram other starships in combat without hesitation.

We also know that the Executor can take 3 ISDs simultaneously ramming it as they exit from hyperspace in just one shield section.

[His Divine Shadow]

In EGVV, we see that the Eclipse could take on fleets of ships by itself, something which is not accredited to the Executor class starships. We also hear that the Eclipse's shields and armor are so strong that the ship can ram other starships in combat without hesitation.

I think that and the minimum power requirements for the Eclipses superlaser are pretty much all thats needed, to equate an Executor to an Eclipse makes little to no sense, the Eclipse is visibly more massive and has demonstrated a reactor capable of a minimum of 1 Executor and 5 ISD's and a more likely figure of 100 ISD's firepower over 2 days in one shot.

And it's ordinary weapons layout or other systems has not been said to suffer from the superlaser system, such a thought is absurd anyway, just because the systems are there doesn't mean they have to draw power in the first place, they only do that if you decided to use them.

[His Divine Shadow]

Vice RotJ where, to quote Ackbar later in Truce at Bakura, the "entire" Rebel fleet was neccessarry to engage at Endor. The difference between A fleet and the ENTIRE fleet is important.

It was not the entire fleet, refer to the briefing before in ROTJ.

Really? You found something in RotJ during the breifing where they say they won't be using the entire fleet? Ackbar states, without pause, that the ENTIRE rebel fleet was at Endor so perhaps you could tell me why you are bringing up the breifing to counter that point?

You ought to read ahead before posting, it helps, points already addressed by IP

[His Divine Shadow]

We also know that the Executor can take 3 ISDs simultaneously ramming it as they exit from hyperspace in just one shield section.

This means what then? Nothing really, since the speed is an unknown factor, so we cannot compare it to weapons, but are you trying to imply the Eclipse could'nt do this?!?!?!

The only thing we do know is that 3 ISD's impacting on the Executor is less than a dozen rebel capships firepower.

We should turn to more verifiable figures, like the simple facts I've just outlayed, the ESSD at the barest minimum outperforms the Death Squadron by a magnitude.

[CmdrWilkens]

The Executor is able to take on entire fleets on its own. The fact that the ENTIRE Rebel Fleet managed to knock out one section of shields which are capable of taking the hyperspace dropout ramming of 3 ISDs speaks nothing about combat against standard size fleets.

I've not seen the Executor be able to take on entire fleets yet, it failed when a dozen of so capital ships engaged it.
Also it's stated to be worth about 20 ISD's

So 20 ISDs do not a fleet make?

Your implication that the entire rebel fleet, as in every ship they got was going there is irrelevant because it doesn't matter if the entire rebel fleet at ROTJ is a dozen or so capships when a standard rebel fleet in Empires end could be a few dozen ships for all we know.

Based on the numbers in Black Fleet Crisis a fleet shouldn't have more than a dozen or so major combatants (5 flagship and another 10 or so major). In RotJ we are looking at several dozen major combatants including home one which, itself, is worth 2 or 3 major combatants of the later Rebel fleets.

And add to this that the whole rebel fleet did not engage the Executor, read what they say during the briefing, they got fleets engaging the imperials all over the galaxy.

Ahh now I know where your mistake is. The IMPERIAL fleet is "spread throughout the galaxy in a vain effor to engage us." The Rebels engaged in, what we military folk call, DECEPTION. They drew the Imperial Fleet all around the galaxy then concentrated their forces for a strike at Endor. Get your facts straight.

And they engaged all the ships, the Executors forward shields failed with a few concentrated barrages while in Empires End the whole fleet as I understand it was going after the Eclipse the whole time.

1) The major combatants (i.e. cruisers) were concentraing their firepower on the Executor.
2) The Endor fleet comprised many mroe major combatants than the Empire's End Fleet
3) The Empire's End Fleet was engaged in yet anopther deception to allow a surreptisious boarding of the Eclipse in order to facilitate its destruction from within.
4) We know that the minimum firepower neccessarry to take down those bridge shields is equal the energy released by 3 ISDs ramming it and detonating simultaneously.

[His Divine Shadow]

So 20 ISDs do not a fleet make?

I don't remember saying that, I also did not say it could take on 20 ISD's, it couldn't BTW.
About 6-10 capital ships seems to be the limit for it in all recorded instances.

Based on the numbers in Black Fleet Crisis a fleet shouldn't have more than a dozen or so major combatants (5 flagship and another 10 or so major). In RotJ we are looking at several dozen major combatants including home one which, itself, is worth 2 or 3 major combatants of the later Rebel fleets

The Black Fleet Crisis was horrible in regards to all forms of scale, the whole NR at the time had only 11.000 systems.
They also focused on fighters over capships there.

Even so it only helps my side, we know an Eclipse is magnitudes stronger than 1 Exeuctor and 5 ISD's(that would make an Eclipse at an absolute minimum to be able to stand up to 11-15 capital ships) and is about equal to 2 days of continual bombardments from a hundred or so ISD's.

1) The major combatants (i.e. cruisers) were concentraing their firepower on the Executor.
2) The Endor fleet comprised many mroe major combatants than the Empire's End Fleet

Irrelevant in light of the battle in the Bacta War though, we can see a smaller number of fighters being able to take down an Executor, while a much larger number of fighters in Empires End could not.

3) The Empire's End Fleet was engaged in yet anopther deception to allow a surreptisious boarding of the Eclipse in order to facilitate its destruction from within

Even if it was a deception does not mean they wouldn't try.

4) We know that the minimum firepower neccessarry to take down those bridge shields is equal the energy released by 3 ISDs ramming it and detonating simultaneously

So we know that an Eclipse can take this too since it's shields are stronger, so whats the problem?
We know from Hoth it's more powerfull than the Death Squadron and likely more powerfull than a 100 ISD's in terms of power generation abilties.

Now come on, you are not seriously saying an Executor compares to an Eclipse are you??

[Master of Ossus]

We also know that the Executor can take 3 ISDs simultaneously ramming it as they exit from hyperspace in just one shield section.

This means what then? Nothing really, since the speed is an unknown factor, so we cannot compare it to weapons, but are you trying to imply the Eclipse could'nt do this?!?!?!

The only thing we do know is that 3 ISD's impacting on the Executor is less than a dozen rebel capships firepower.

We should turn to more verifiable figures, like the simple facts I've just outlayed, the ESSD at the barest minimum outperforms the Death Squadron by a magnitude.

NTM that ramming attacks are never used in SW except by ships that no longer have weapons to fire. This is because such ramming attacks are weaker than the weapons those ships could use, anyway.

[His Divine Shadow]

I think we need a separate thread, I'm going to make one with a poll.

[CmdrWilkens]

Based on the numbers in Black Fleet Crisis a fleet shouldn't have more than a dozen or so major combatants (5 flagship and another 10 or so major). In RotJ we are looking at several dozen major combatants including home one which, itself, is worth 2 or 3 major combatants of the later Rebel fleets

The Black Fleet Crisis was horrible in regards to all forms of scale, the whole NR at the time had only 11.000 systems.
They also focused on fighters over capships there.

So other than your distrust do you have any reason to dsicount the evidence? Good then it stands and its more correct than you are.

1) The major combatants (i.e. cruisers) were concentraing their firepower on the Executor.
2) The Endor fleet comprised many more major combatants than the Empire's End Fleet

Irrelevant in light of the battle in the Bacta War though, we can see a smaller number of fighters being able to take down an Executor, while a much larger number of fighters in Empires End could not.

Those small number of fighters were supported by an innordantly large number of capship grade missile weaponry compared with the Empire's End fleet. Furthermore in Empire's End you are only looking at about 3x more fighters (6 squadrons vice 2) and a few more capships all of which are engaging forces to draw out the Eclipses fighters and get a shield drop long enough for a covert boarding. In other words you are taking disimilair circumstances and trying to draw a comparison from them.

3) The Empire's End Fleet was engaged in yet anopther deception to allow a surreptisious boarding of the Eclipse in order to facilitate its destruction from within

Even if it was a deception does not mean they wouldn't try.

However it does mean they would not be sending the majority of their combat firepower against the Eclipse.

4) We know that the minimum firepower neccessarry to take down those bridge shields is equal the energy released by 3 ISDs ramming it and detonating simultaneously

So we know that an Eclipse can take this too since it's shields are stronger, so whats the problem?

I have none, you just seem to think that the Eclipse's secondary weaponry can take down the Executor's at will and I find it useful to point out that its unlikely in the extreme.

We know from Hoth it's more powerfull than the Death Squadron and likely more powerfull than a 100 ISD's in terms of power generation abilties.

Now come on, you are not seriously saying an Executor compares to an Eclipse are you??

1) Power generation has no bearing on the ability to engage with its secondary weapons
2) Yes I am and here's why:

The shielding question:
You can throw it around any way you like but the Executor and the Eclipse both have stonrg shields as much as you seek to downgrade the Executor's. You need a lot of highly concentraed firepower to pierce either one's so lets move to weapons

The weapons question:
Visual examination of the Executor reveals the apparent presence of over 400 emplacements which should be HTL batteries (the only weapons emplacements that are visible in general) yielding 3200 plus guns. Comparison with ISDs (the 20x worth) yields HTL counts into the 1300 range. Conversely the Eclispe has a mere 550 REGULAR HTLS and 500 heavy anti-starfighter weapons. The primary weapon on the later is its SL which is likely in the 1e29-1e30J range however a well cpatained Executor will never fall into its firing arc and the former has a HUGE advantage in conventional firepower.

What does this mean:
The Executor has a BIG advantage in conventional firepower while the Eclipse has an unknown advantage in shielding. Assuming the SL doesn't hit the Executor a single one should do the job, if it does then you need to add 1 Executor for each successful SL hit you can count on. I would say no more than 3 Executors and more likely a single one could successfully engage an Eclipse.

[His Divine Shadow]

Made a poll here:
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?p=266725[/b]

[CmdrWilkens]

Really? You found something in RotJ during the breifing where they say they won't be using the entire fleet? Ackbar states, without pause, that the ENTIRE rebel fleet was at Endor so perhaps you could tell me why you are bringing up the breifing to counter that point?

You ought to read ahead before posting, it helps, points already addressed by IP

Yes but I still reserve the right to respond to those who respond to me with incredulousness.

[His Divine Shadow]

So other than your distrust do you have any reason to dsicount the evidence? Good then it stands and its more correct than you are

You answered too soon, I have edited my message.
I'm not discoutning evidence either, I'm discounting your fan theory.
Note the difference.

Furthermore in Empire's End you are only looking at about 3x more fighters (6 squadrons vice 2) and a few more capships all of which are engaging forces to draw out the Eclipses fighters and get a shield drop long enough for a covert boarding. In other words you are taking disimilair circumstances and trying to draw a comparison from them

No, this displays that even 3x the fighters was not a viable option, like it was with the Executor class, it was more viable to send the falcon inside.

However it does mean they would not be sending the majority of their combat firepower against the Eclipse

Yeah, it means the majority of their combat firepower not going to be effective enough to the point that it is more advisable to send in the falcon under the shields.

I have none, you just seem to think that the Eclipse's secondary weaponry can take down the Executor's at will and I find it useful to point out that its unlikely in the extreme

The Eclipses secondary weaponry shouldn't be able to why?
Because it's classified as turbolaser instead of heavy? Look at the damage stats.

1) Power generation has no bearing on the ability to engage with its secondary weapons

No, but shields.

The shielding question:
You can throw it around any way you like but the Executor and the Eclipse both have stonrg shields as much as you seek to downgrade the Executor's. You need a lot of highly concentraed firepower to pierce either one's so lets move to weapons

Wrong, it matters, and it will be thrown around and I am NOT!!! downgrading the Executors shields, the Eclipses shields are just superior to the point that the Eclipse will win over it.

The weapons question:
Visual examination of the Executor reveals the apparent presence of over 400 emplacements which should be HTL batteries (the only weapons emplacements that are visible in general) yielding 3200 plus guns. Comparison with ISDs (the 20x worth) yields HTL counts into the 1300 range. Conversely the Eclispe has a mere 550 REGULAR HTLS and 500 heavy anti-starfighter weapons. The primary weapon on the later is its SL which is likely in the 1e29-1e30J range however a well cpatained Executor will never fall into its firing arc and the former has a HUGE advantage in conventional firepower

This I have serious problems with, you expect us to ignore the stats for one ship while using them for another, even though we've seen that just about every ship they classify is wrong compared to it's source.

And they're supposed to be proportionally correct, the ESSD's overall firepower should be proportional relative to each other, this means we have to modify the Eclipses overall firepower from it's secondary weapons to fit or the intents of the RPG is moot.

What does this mean:
The Executor has a BIG advantage in conventional firepower while the Eclipse has an unknown advantage in shielding. Assuming the SL doesn't hit the Executor a single one should do the job, if it does then you need to add 1 Executor for each successful SL hit you can count on. I would say no more than 3 Executors and more likely a single one could successfully engage an Eclipse

Actually, the Eclipse would also get more weapons if the Executor gets more, so the difference is not that big, we can simply look at the overall firepower figures to get the proportions of their secondary weapons relative to each other.

And proportionally the Executors weapons are 2.6 times more powerfull(this might be errorenous, I just added together respective damage points) than the weapons on the Eclipse, not including the 500 Laser Cannons.
The wildcard is the shields, but if reactor abilities is any indication of it's shields, then it's vastly more powerfull shield wise than the Executor.

Oh and comparing the Eclipses offensive strenght to oh 7 Mon cal ships, pretty much like at Endor, then the Eclipses secondary offensive firepower is still powerfull enough to affect the shields of the Executor.

[Connor MacLeod]

They don't seem to have much different surface area for weapon mountings and the extra reactor power from more volume for the Eclipse probably goes into the superlaser and grav wells.

I'd say one could do it, using its bombers w/ highest intensity weapons if it could batter the shields down somewhere and then use its bombed to puncture the hull to give it a slight firepower edge...it could do it. The Executor class needs to stay out of the superlaser's firing arc though.

LOL. The Eclipse has a much greater surface area than the Executor, and has successfully engaged entire fleets of starships. An Executor-class starship has never demonstrated that kind of resiliency, or firepower. Even if a substantial portion of its power is dedicated to the SL and to its gravity well generators (ignoring the ability of most SW ships to redirect power from various systems to others), we find that it should still have shields and weapons orders of magnitude more powerful than an Executor. I would say it would take between eight and ten Executor-class vessels to defeat an Eclipse.

To say nothing of the fact the Eclipse can ram targets without difficulty.

[Illuminatus Primus]

But anyhow, the Eclipse was faced with a hundred fighters and they did diddly jack shit zero sip nada zilch to it, the Executor was attacked by oh 40-60 fighters or so IIRC, in The Bacta War and got hit with a 20 fighter class torpedoes and 60 capital ones and they collapsed the bow shields.

60 cap-class of unknown size as their first salvo.

Additionally the Lusankya is not primarily a warship. It was modified to serve as an emergency get-away vehicle for Palpatine and was filled with his luxuries and treasures. Then Isard added the prison, and it also had to be designed to work with the repulsorlifts to escape the atmosphere.

Additionally, the run on the YV worldship involved a Lusankya stripped of much of its equipment except for engines for repair and refitting of other ships.

Make no mistake, I'm thinking it would take multiple Executors to defeat an Eclipse, but it isn't that far behind.

Endor shield estimates are shit. We don't know exactly how much firepower was being thrown at the Executor after Ackbar's orders, we don't know if there was a total shield collapse or brief cutoff, we don't know how many shield sections failed, and we don't know how much punishment the Executor had taken before Ackbar's order.

Lusankya calcs are also shit because the Lusankya is not primarily a warship (see above) and it was also ordered to primarily shunt power to engines and follow Isard out, we don't know exactly how much energy was not being fed to the shields so short after a hyperjump (after all they did think they weren't encountering attackers when they emurged) when they were ambushed, and we don't know the exact size and yield of the torpedoes involved nor the exact firepower of the other capital ships involved.

This leaves Iron First calcs (shit) and we're left with basically nothing.

[CmdrWilkens]

So other than your distrust do you have any reason to dsicount the evidence? Good then it stands and its more correct than you are

You answered too soon, I have edited my message.
I'm not discoutning evidence either, I'm discounting your fan theory.
Note the difference.

First off you went onto an entirely SEPERATE point that shoudl have been a seperate post NOT an edit. Furtehermore the Eclipse retains that firepower edge exclusively because of the SL, I am eliminating that from this scenario (via excellent sailing) as it is a trump card for the ESSD.

Furthermore in Empire's End you are only looking at about 3x more fighters (6 squadrons vice 2) and a few more capships all of which are engaging forces to draw out the Eclipses fighters and get a shield drop long enough for a covert boarding. In other words you are taking disimilair circumstances and trying to draw a comparison from them

No, this displays that even 3x the fighters was not a viable option, like it was with the Executor class, it was more viable to send the falcon inside.

Way to isolate my statement and ignroe the whole point, you're doing a good RSA imeprsonation. Now why don't you read EVERYTHING I wrote then respond again. Alternatively you could edit your pst to make an entirely new point on the subject and continue to ignroe what I'm saying.

However it does mean they would not be sending the majority of their combat firepower against the Eclipse

Yeah, it means the majority of their combat firepower not going to be effective enough to the point that it is more advisable to send in the falcon under the shields.

There's a difference between ineffective and taking the route that produces orders of magnitude fewer casualties. Simply because a minority of their firepower was ineffective does NOT mean that the majority would be.

I have none, you just seem to think that the Eclipse's secondary weaponry can take down the Executor's at will and I find it useful to point out that its unlikely in the extreme

The Eclipses secondary weaponry shouldn't be able to why?
Because it's classified as turbolaser instead of heavy? Look at the damage stats.

Once again damage stats are a game mechanic and therefore useless. They exist solely to provide playability (in the same way that fighters can only go 100 mps in the flight sims) and are not a useful tool except comparatively in which case 8D starfighter scale is much less than even the 5D capship scale TLs.

1) Power generation has no bearing on the ability to engage with its secondary weapons

No, but shields.

Are disconnected from reactor power, note the lack of correlaiton between the two in AOTC:ICS.

The shielding question:
You can throw it around any way you like but the Executor and the Eclipse both have stonrg shields as much as you seek to downgrade the Executor's. You need a lot of highly concentraed firepower to pierce either one's so lets move to weapons

Wrong, it matters, and it will be thrown around and I am NOT!!! downgrading the Executors shields, the Eclipses shields are just superior to the point that the Eclipse will win over it.

you've never provided proof of this only assetion based on conjecture. The most extreme example in either ship's case is the ability to survive ramming other major combatants which is HIGHLY suggestive of shielding differences less than one order of magnitude.

The weapons question:
Visual examination of the Executor reveals the apparent presence of over 400 emplacements which should be HTL batteries (the only weapons emplacements that are visible in general) yielding 3200 plus guns. Comparison with ISDs (the 20x worth) yields HTL counts into the 1300 range. Conversely the Eclispe has a mere 550 REGULAR HTLS and 500 heavy anti-starfighter weapons. The primary weapon on the later is its SL which is likely in the 1e29-1e30J range however a well cpatained Executor will never fall into its firing arc and the former has a HUGE advantage in conventional firepower

This I have serious problems with, you expect us to ignore the stats for one ship while using them for another, even though we've seen that just about every ship they classify is wrong compared to it's source.

Lets review, WEG classifies a ship known as the "Super Star Destroyer" at 8Km in length. This ship is NOT an Executor and thus attempting to apply its stats to the vessel in quesiton is like giving the Eclipse the stats of the Rand Ecleptic just be cause the names look similair.

Secondly as to the Eclipse's secondary weapon the WEG source is the ONLY source for weapons count so unless you have opther evidence those are the numbers to use.

And they're supposed to be proportionally correct, the ESSD's overall firepower should be proportional relative to each other, this means we have to modify the Eclipses overall firepower from it's secondary weapons to fit or the intents of the RPG is moot.

WTF are you saying here?

What does this mean:
The Executor has a BIG advantage in conventional firepower while the Eclipse has an unknown advantage in shielding. Assuming the SL doesn't hit the Executor a single one should do the job, if it does then you need to add 1 Executor for each successful SL hit you can count on. I would say no more than 3 Executors and more likely a single one could successfully engage an Eclipse

Actually, the Eclipse would also get more weapons if the Executor gets more, so the difference is not that big, we can simply look at the overall firepower figures to get the proportions of their secondary weapons relative to each other.

And proportionally the Executors weapons are 2.6 times more powerfull(this might be errorenous, I just added together respective damage points) than the weapons on the Eclipse, not including the 500 Laser Cannons.
The wildcard is the shields, but if reactor abilities is any indication of it's shields, then it's vastly more powerfull shield wise than the Executor.

Oh and comparing the Eclipses offensive strenght to oh 7 Mon cal ships, pretty much like at Endor, then the Eclipses secondary offensive firepower is still powerfull enough to affect the shields of the Executor.

1) The Eclipse doesn't get any mroe unless you have evidence to show the WEG numbers are wrong. I don't use WEG numbers for the Executor because they don't exist (numbers exist fo an 8Km SSD but not a 17.6Km Executor).

2) Damage mechanics are a game mechanic and NOT indicative of real world firepower (just as the flgiht sims fudge firepower, speed, etc, in order to be playable). Additionally you aren't taking into account the differecne between starfighter scale and capship scale damage.

3) You'd be comparing against MonCal vessels not including Home One whose armament (due to its greater length and volume) is assuredly greater, and other MonCal ships greater in size than the 1200m "Liberty" variants (which are, universally, the only ones described in the EU material).

[CmdrWilkens]

To say nothing of the fact the Eclipse can ram targets without difficulty.

While the Executor can take the simultaneous ramming of 3 full up ISDs on one shield section. You aren't proving a difference.