Theed powerplant vs lightsabre

[DPDarkPrimus]

Don't look like no lasers ta me, Pa.

[Connor MacLeod]

Don't repace my claims with what you wish them to be. I am claiming we should believe something repeatedly called a laser is a laser.

Yet it is composed of electrons, nor does it behave like a laser. Your entire logic is "they call it a laser, so it must be a laser, despite what it may be described as, look like, etc." It didnt work with TLs, what makes you think its going to work here?

Weapons that use lasers to energy gasses have been mistakenly asusmed to be laser weapons.

Prove it. Cite that as a fact from a canon or official source. You have been deliberately neglecting any burden of proof on your part. Enough dodging (Although thats all you are ever good at. Claiming victory and then dodging any effort to justify it.)

[Darth Servo]

Wow. 17 posts from Edam, none of which really prove anything. That just might be some kind of a record.

[Lord Poe]

This is different to trek forcefields, which aren't lasers at all, but seem to be more of a physical barrier (ref. DS9 Facets, where Sisko/Joran repeatedly headbutts a security forcefield)

"Seem to be", Edam? Where is your proof these AREN'T lasers? Are we to go with your opinion and not canon? From the quotes you snipped, it has been proven clearly that the "lasers" in the Theed control room were INDEED "more of a physical barrier". So yes, they ARE like Trek forcefields, aren't they?

[Lord Poe]

They don't look that different to any scanning laser from a concert light show.

And the handheld phasers from season 1 "don't look that different" to dustbusters. So why do I need a description of them being used as vacuums, oh hypocritical one?

[Lord Poe]

or even go slightly OT for this forum and accept that every description given for the fields still makes them different to ST forcefields?

Prove the difference. You haven't been able to, even though quotes have been provided in this thread that show these "lasers" are just as much of a forcefield as Trek forcefields are.

[Lord Poe]

It looked no different to something that is done very easily with a cheap laser.

The handhed phasers look like cheap dustbusters. Game. Set. Match.

[Robert Treder]

It looked no different to something that is done very easily with a cheap laser.

The handhed phasers look like cheap dustbusters. Game. Set. Match.

*clap clap clap*

[Lord Edam]

"Seem to be", Edam? Where is your proof these AREN'T lasers?

If they were lasers you wouldn't be able to nut them repeatedly, as Sisko/Jorel did in DS9:Facets.

From the quotes you snipped, it has been proven clearly that the "lasers" in the Theed control room were INDEED "more of a physical barrier"

You took the description "deadly wall" and assumed this made them a physical barrier - it doesn't. You can have a deadly wall of lasers. Which they do. Here. It's like a wall, made of energy, that you can't pass without getting killed.

So yes, they ARE like Trek forcefields, aren't they?

Nope. You wouldn't be able to repeatedly nut a wall of electrons either, which is the other description of the shields.

And the handheld phasers from season 1 "don't look that different" to dustbusters. So why do I need a description of them being used as vacuums, oh hypocritical one?

They look different in use, and they look different in operation. There is no reason whatsoever to believe they are vacuum cleaners, unlike the shields in TPM being canonically described as lasers.

[Lord Edam]

Yet it is composed of electrons, nor does it behave like a laser.

You are yet to prove a wall of electrons would act as the shields do. I have already given similar examples of lasers acting as we see them act in TPM. PainRack also posted a very good reason why the field can't be overly charged in his very first post, which I quoted on the previous page.

Your entire logic is "they call it a laser, so it must be a laser, despite what it may be described as, look like, etc." It didnt work with TLs, what makes you think its going to work here?

Yet again I repeat, TLs and other "laser" weaponry (by your own quotes provided in this thread) use lasers to energise the gas that they use. Hence the use of lasers in their name even though they look nothing like lasers in operation. Here, it's called a laser repeatedly in several sources. It looks like we know lasers can look. There's no reason to believe canon sources are wrong. They may also contain a small number of electrons, possible from air or other particles ionised by the lasers, but this isn't as much of a charge as electrically charged stun netting has, or Maul would have been electrocuted (as per the reference given by PainRack in the very first post to this thread).

Weapons that use lasers to energy gasses have been mistakenly asusmed to be laser weapons.

Prove it. Cite that as a fact from a canon or official source.

from one of your posts on page one (EGWT p80)

The laser actuator combines high energy blaster gas with a large power charge. (The Actuator's prismatic crystal produces the high energy beam of charged particles coupled with light.)"


hmm..take a high powered laser, combine with blaster gas. Get charged particles out. Seems your own quotes prove lasers are used to energise gases.

You have been deliberately neglecting any burden of proof on your part.

You are the one claiming lasers are not lasers. I have provided references describing the shields as lasers. I have shown lasers can look as these shields look. I have shown that there cannot be a large concentration of electrons there (Thanks to PainRack's first post).

Either they are lasers, or they are electrons. I've done more than enough to prove they are lasers now it's your turn. If you won't accept they are lasers prove they are electrons.

Oh, no, that would mean work, wouldn't it? You won't do that. You'll just keep shouting I've not proven anything until I get fed up of listening to you.

[The Dude]

I have a simple equation for you all:

screenplay > novelization in canon hierarchy

INT. THEED - POWER GENERATOR ELECTRIC BEAM - HALLWAY

The electron rays cycle as QUI-GON sits meditating. The wall of deadly rays turn away, and OBI-WAN starts running toward QUI-GON and the DARK LORD.

The electron ray gates begin to close. OBI-WAN tries to make it to the melting pit but is caught one gate short. He slides to a stop just before he hits the deadly electron field.

They're electron rays. Deal with it.


As for this little gem:

Nope. You wouldn't be able to repeatedly nut a wall of electrons either, which is the other description of the shields.

I think someone needs a tutorial on the electromagnetic force.

[Boba Fett]

It isn't laser wall...

It isn't electron wall...





It is the WALL OF IGNORANCE!!!

[Slartibartfast]

As usual, we have Edam misrepresenting evidence (if not flat-out lying)

As usual you've been suckered by someone who's ignored six objective descriptions on the fields in favour of the subjective thoughts of a padawan watching his mentor get killed. oops.

As usual you are a dipshit. And as usual you repeat the first two words in the post you quote.

The forcefield was obviously a semi-transparent wall, not rock concert laser beams.

It looked no different to something that is done very easily with a cheap laser. Anything else is merely your opinion - an opinion that cannot overide canon statements of fact. Canon descriptions has it as a laser. We know lasers can give that appearance. Accept they were lasers.

So not only you argue that they are lasers, they are CHEAP also. Man you are such a P.A. Say, where in canon says they are cheap lasers?

Additionally, lasers don't behave like solids, making lightsabers bounce on them.

go watch again. The lightsaber never bounces off the field. Maul touches it briefly, then removes the lightsaber.

The lightsaber doesn't go thru nor is the blade shortened. It behaves like a solid, you blind assrat.

[Slartibartfast]

"Laser doors lock into position in response to potentially lethal power outputs that occur intermittently during plasma activation process."

Figures... only Mr. stinky cheese over here would think that they use forcefields that turn on and off in sequence are an effective security measure to prevent unauthorized entry

[Slartibartfast]

EGW&T page 80:
Basically again, we've proven the use of charged particles (particularily electrons in this instance) in "laser" weapons rather than mere photons,
burden of proof is on Edam to disprove otherwise (the fact the were deadly is implicit in Wayne's proof.)

All your quote proves is that lasers can be used to energise plasma. No shit. Burden of proof ison you to prove laser != laser

We know how a laser works. We are explained how a Star Wars laser works. We see that it's not the same. Laser != SW laser.

There. Proved.

[Slartibartfast]

All right, smartass...then why didn't the Jedi walk through them? How is a "rock concert" laser supposed to prevent the Jedi from passing?

For fucks sake, Bobby-boy. are you entirely incapable of thinking for yourself?

rock concert lasers are so low power that they'd struggle to heat a cup of tea. These lasers are obviouslyso high-powered that they are a danger to anyone trying to pass through them.

But Edam Canon (TM) says they are cheap lasers! How can this be?! I could understand if they were expensive lasers, or at least if they changed the "l" with a "ph", but cheap lasers being high-powered?

[Slartibartfast]

Edam Fact: The field clearly did not repel Maul's Lightsabre.

Real Fact: The field clearly did repel Maul's Lightsabre.

These were the points considered and made in my original post. I also included a minor factoid that the beams were clearly stated to be lasers (as confirmed by Wayne's quotes and the number I referenced)

Real Fact: in SW they call anything a laser. (they didn't figure out how to cleverly change the first letter of the word to make it seem a completely different thing, like generic Sci-Fi Deathrays)

No one has considered the three points made. Everyone has concentrated on the minor factoid which doesn't affect any of them. Nitpicking.

Sure, only the ones that you dismiss as false even if the evidence shows they are true (such as the LASERS != SW lasers canon FACT, or the lightsaber-repelling fields)

[Slartibartfast]

Don't repace my claims with what you wish them to be. I am claiming we should believe something repeatedly called a laser is a laser.

Sure, after you admit that Phaser Rifles fire rifled bullets.

[Darth Servo]

Edam, stop playing the name game. This is the kind of crap that is usually reserved for total complete idiots like TOWNMNBS and Scooter. Is that really the company you want to be keeping?

[Slartibartfast]

Are you suggesting that Maul could have penetrated the field with his sabre? If so, what evidence do you have of this?

Nope. I'm not claiming that at all. We don't know if he would have got through or not.

Except that we saw him try, and fail. Unless you want to argue that being unable to do something is different from being unable to do something. Maybe you want to argue about what "is" is?

Why is it that everyone else who watched the film got the impression that the lightsabre was having the same reaction it has when it touches another lightsabre?

If everyone else got the idea the lightsabre had the same reaction as when it touched other lightsabres, why is everyone claiming the sabre bounced off the field? Lightsabres don't bounce off each other, this muchis obvious from any lightsabre fight.

Wait, wait... is that what you understood from bounce? Ah, you thought I was talking about bouncing like a rubber ball, sorry, no. I meant bounce as in "not go thru". You know, when things don't go thru other things they bounce. Unless they stick. Did the lightsaber stick? I didn't notice, my bad.

Edam, you do know that it's not wise to assume that they're lasers simply because the term 'laser' is used, right? Or have you forgotten "phaser rifles," "turbolasers," and "disruptor cannons"?

Phaser rifles - stocked weapons based on phaser energy.

Phaser rifles - stocked weapons based on phaser energy that fire rifled slugs.

They were high-powered lasers (as in light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation), with some sort of fine mist to make the strange translucent effect.

Lasers, as canonically and officially described, that had some effect that showed the light, be it a fine mist, ionisation of the air and other particulate matter, or something else entirely.

Ah, but the burden of proof is on you to demostrate the existence of such ionization or particulate matter. Otherwise it's an assumption (unlike the lasers != LASERs, which is not an assumption - it's canon)

When in contact with lightsabre blades, there is a lot of light and noise, similar to when two lightsabre blades contact each other.

But theydon't bounce off each other.

They don't stick either. We see in RoTJ how Luke is able to push Vader's sabre with raw force, and they do bounce.

The Naboo went through the trouble to make these lasers activate and deactivate with pretty effects...after all, "it's just all just a light show - you can do all sorts of fancy things in a light show."

Either purposely or as a side-effect the lasers are a visible deterrent to travelling down that corridor. Maybe it was done for aesthetic reasons, or maybe it's just how it turned out in the end.

Except that these are used to stop deadly energy coming from the reactor. Lasers don't do that, so it's a force field. Any sane person would tell you that it's not very effective as a anti-intruder system to have force fields that turn on and off to let you pass.

[Slartibartfast]

I'd prefer the explanation that they where SW laser fields, which are not lasers.

You keep insisting lasers aren't lasers, yet you feel this is preferable to simple theories that explain everything?

Ok, let me explain it to you again, maybe it'll sink in this time:

Official sources tell us how SW lasers work. Canon footages show us how SW lasers work. We know how real world LASERs work. They're not the same. The End.

[Slartibartfast]

This is different to trek forcefields, which aren't lasers at all, but seem to be more of a physical barrier (ref. DS9 Facets, where Sisko/Joran repeatedly headbutts a security forcefield)

"Seem to be", Edam? Where is your proof these AREN'T lasers? Are we to go with your opinion and not canon? From the quotes you snipped, it has been proven clearly that the "lasers" in the Theed control room were INDEED "more of a physical barrier". So yes, they ARE like Trek forcefields, aren't they?

So far I've figured this much out: Roddenberry apparently thought that LASER was a swear word. Trekkies often think the same, but they think they're so clever because they switch one letter with another one and they got magic deathrays (which couldn't possible be bad, bad evil lasers)

[Lord Edam]

screenplay > novelization in canon hierarchy

I've been thinking about this on and off for a while, and I don't think it's particularly thought through

Obviously, you've got the films as the ultimate canon, as per the Jedi Council part of www.starwars.com, but where does placing screenplays above novelisations come from?

I've never seen a quote from LFL that says "in that order". All I've fan are fan interpretations, some of which (points at poe) take "screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations" (from SWI #23) and change the order completely.

As for this little gem:

Nope. You wouldn't be able to repeatedly nut a wall of electrons either, which is the other description of the shields.

I think someone needs a tutorial on the electromagnetic force.

[/quote]

Try headbutting a waterfall. Watch as your head goes straight through. Oops.

[Lord Edam]

So not only you argue that they are lasers, they are CHEAP also. Man you are such a P.A. Say, where in canon says they are cheap lasers?

If you can manage it with cheap lasers, chances are you can manage it with more expensive ones as well. You know this, of course. Anyone able enough to use a computer knows this.

The lightsaber doesn't go thru nor is the blade shortened. It behaves like a solid, you blind assrat.

The Ls isn't pushed through enough to go through. It's touched against the field. You insist this is because the field is solid, I suggest it is simply because that's what Maul chose to do.

Figures... only Mr. stinky cheese over here would think that they use forcefields that turn on and off in sequence are an effective security measure to prevent unauthorized entry

Seems Terry Brooks thought the same thing when he was creating SW canon.

Lasers ricocheted off buffer struts, pulsing in long bursts of crisscorssing brilliance that segmented the corridor at five points...shocked into immobility by the buzz and flash of the lasers the antagonists froze where they were...the service corridor was armed with lasers against unauthorised intrusion (TPM novellisation, P286/287 HB)

Isn't it sad when your insults show your idiocy?

We know how a laser works. We are explained how a Star Wars laser works.

No one has explained how a Star Wars laser works. Plenty have tried to claim Star Wars lasers aren't lasers because (eg) "turbolasers" make visible bolts, but that's been explained (laser is there because it activates the gas).

Sure, after you admit that Phaser Rifles fire rifled bullets.

Why would I want to do that? the "rifle" of modern rifles comes from the name given to the grooves in the barrel, that make the bullet spin (note, that's in the barrel, not the bullet - see dictionary.com). We don't know enough about phaser rifles to say if they have rifling in the barrel or not

Except that we saw him try, and fail.

He briefly touched the field with his lightsabre - you can hardly call that trying. It's more like someone tapping on a glass window than trying to put their hand through it.

Ah, but the burden of proof is on you to demostrate the existence of such ionization or particulate matter. Otherwise it's an assumption (unlike the lasers != LASERs, which is not an assumption - it's canon)

both would explain why they are described as lasers and electrons. lasers !=LASERs is an assumption - you assume the laser refers to the bolt generated by the weapon, rather than lasers being used internally.

Except that these are used to stop deadly energy coming from the reactor

See quote above. You assume they are to prevent energy getting out - they could be to stop people getting in when the energy is dangerous (which would fit better with canon)

Any sane person would tell you that it's not very effective as a anti-intruder system to have force fields that turn on and off to let you pass.

I don't care what sane people tell me - Terry Brooks made it canon in the novellisation, so accept it we shall.

[Lord Edam]

Edam, stop playing the name game. This is the kind of crap that is usually reserved for total complete idiots like TOWNMNBS and Scooter. Is that really the company you want to be keeping?

So, next time someone tries to pull out "survivors" and the 400GW quote I should tell them to stop playing the name game? After all, it's just a name for the power of the weapon.

Or maybe "gigaton" in SW doesn't really mean "gigaton", but really means "sausage" - an acclamator can fire 200 sausage per shot.

Hell, why stop there? "galaxy" is really an archipelago on a planet, and "humans" are flees on an elephant's back.

why is it everytime someone sees no other way out they fall back to "it's just a name game" or "it's all semantics", usually mixed in with threats to lump their opponent with someone the majority vehemently dislike (and for the record, I've known both TOWNMNBS and Darkstar, and whilst they may be annoying they are far from idiots)