Latest Travissty cancelled

[Ghost Rider]

But without GRIMDARK!!! how will we ever be respected!

All the emo teens love the GRIMDARK. And it's been a long time since Wraith Squadron or hell most humor in SW that isn't at best gallows humor and touting about some galactic scare that involves only a planet or three.

To be honest, the Wraith Squadron stuff (and Starfighters of Adumar) had serious aspects, like the fate of Toprawa, Project Chubar, and the Adumari society, it's just that they didn't wallow in the grimdark. Nowadays they'd probably have entire novels dedicated to the grim essentials of survival on Toprawa, or the blastsword forms of Cartann, or the warrior culture developed by the mentally-enhanced Ewoks, blatantly ripped off from... the Mongols.

Yeah! We'll have warrior Ewoks on speederbikes, shooting bows and arrows at people. But with their enhanced intelligence, they'd make laser bows. With plasma arrows. And we could have an endless array of point-for-point references to Mongol history, right down to their legendary leader Genghis Kettch. This still might actually be enjoyable to read, if in an ironic way, so we need some way to suck any sense of humor or over-the-topness from it. Thoughts?

The serious aspects are good, but too much of the EU has devolved into the byline of 40K, without realizing...40K created the Orks. Some of the older EU has some dry humor from some authors, silly shit from others, but with the Vong and so forth? They almost went straight into the grimdark darkgrim philosophy as some way to attract readers.

[Bakustra]

But without GRIMDARK!!! how will we ever be respected!

All the emo teens love the GRIMDARK. And it's been a long time since Wraith Squadron or hell most humor in SW that isn't at best gallows humor and touting about some galactic scare that involves only a planet or three.

To be honest, the Wraith Squadron stuff (and Starfighters of Adumar) had serious aspects, like the fate of Toprawa, Project Chubar, and the Adumari society, it's just that they didn't wallow in the grimdark. Nowadays they'd probably have entire novels dedicated to the grim essentials of survival on Toprawa, or the blastsword forms of Cartann, or the warrior culture developed by the mentally-enhanced Ewoks, blatantly ripped off from... the Mongols.

Yeah! We'll have warrior Ewoks on speederbikes, shooting bows and arrows at people. But with their enhanced intelligence, they'd make laser bows. With plasma arrows. And we could have an endless array of point-for-point references to Mongol history, right down to their legendary leader Genghis Kettch. This still might actually be enjoyable to read, if in an ironic way, so we need some way to suck any sense of humor or over-the-topness from it. Thoughts?

The serious aspects are good, but too much of the EU has devolved into the byline of 40K, without realizing...40K created the Orks. Some of the older EU has some dry humor from some authors, silly shit from others, but with the Vong and so forth? They almost went straight into the grimdark darkgrim philosophy as some way to attract readers.

You know, the NJO killed any interest I had in the EU until I read Survivor's Quest and Outbound Flight, and then got into the Clone Wars-era stuff. I mean, I'm not a typical reader, or so I'd like to think, but it was incredibly awful. My general barometer for how bad a book is is how well I can remember it. I cannot remember anything of what happened in Balance Point, and I know I read it. Star by Star had those vornskr-things. Allston's duology was the last I read, and I remember more of that, but by that point, I was done with it. You'd think they could attract more readers by making the books more like the movies, or genuinely good, but I guess that those would cost actual money, so they go for the lowest common denominator of hack fiction. Alas, for what never was. I think I'll go back to fantasizing about David Drake or Sandy Mitchell writing for Star Wars now. Just thinking about this makes me realize that I even miss Stackpole's awful pun on cubic zirconia. Jesus Christ.

[Connor MacLeod]

"Moron," she mumbled at the screen. The analyst was throwing out numbers, huge ones, and because her business was numbers she found herself reaching for a stylus and doodling a few figures on the nearest datapad. "I bet you don't even know how many zeros there are in a quintillion."

She did, though, and numbers comforted her, so she considered his argument. Then she started wondering how much metal went into a battle droid--forty kilos, at the very least--and multiplied it by a quintillion just out of curiosity, and then started wondering where all that metal came from if 90 percent of the average rocky planet was silica, and not all the remaining 10 percent was the right kind of metal, or could be mined anyway, and mining and ore processing took up a lot of resources...

40 kg? For a man made of metal? What, flesh is twice as dense as iron now? I guess it could be a light metal of some kind. I'll use iron here because it's the most abundant metal I know of.

As a rough estimate, a torso-sized block of steel 200x300x1000mm weighs about 470kg. As a conservative estimate, let's say a B1 battledroid weighs about 200kg, considering internal space, etc. The USGS puts world iron reserves at 'exceeding' 800B tonnes ore, 230B tonnes of iron content. That's enough for 1.15 trillion battledroids. Curtis Saxton gives the number of 'inhabited' planets in the Empire as 12 million. Uninhabited, minable worlds are surely far more numerous. Every million Earth-like planets is another quintillion battledroids, in terms of potential resources. There should be enough metal.

Further, USGS gives 2.2B tonnes of iron ore produced in 2008. From the above ore-to-usable-metal ratio, I get 630M tonnes of iron per year. IIRC, the CIS had 15 years to build up the droid army. At 630M tonnes/year, and 200kg per droid, for 15 years, that's an army of 45 billion droids, using Earth's current production numbers. Consider 3 million clones versus that. If Star Wars has 50x Earth's production per mining planet (?), and the CIS had 1 million mining planets (?), then that's a droid army of... 2.4 quintillion battledroids.

I'm not sure if these numbers are good, but at least it shows that 'quintillions of droids' isn't wildly off the mark. However, it does require a few million planets to be torn to shreds to feed the foundries, which Traviss probably would not accept as plausible. Note that at the 50x rate above, a Star Wars mining operation would strip a whole Earth-like planet of iron ore in just 7.3 years. Hell, the ring around Geonosis may be the tip of the iceberg. I wouldn't be surprised if the mining corporations used mini-Death-Stars for blasting long before the Death Stars were built. Fleets of mass-produced 'miniature mining Darksabers' would conveniently give the Death Stars a solid pre-existing design lineage.

Well to be fair, in context the 40 Kg figure is a minimum rather than an absolute. I read it as the lady trying to be conservative, as silly as the math ultimately is.

what gets me is the assumption about resources on the planet. Earth is more than half iron. The crust is more than 5% iron (and makes up a few percent of the planet's mass IIRC) Even assuming they could handle only a fraction of the iron in the crust, and a battle droid masses 150 kg they should get many quadrillions if not quintillions of droids, which fits the established numbers range we've had in the past. FROM ONE PLANET. And that's not including asteroid belts or whatnot (this is especially hilarious in light of the fact Geonosis was building droids from materilas mind FROM asteroids - it was in the fricking movie even!)

really you can crunch the numbers any way you want but that analysis comes off as patently absurd and self-serving.

[Havok]

To play devils advocate, she does state that her character's 'business is numbers', so maybe she is making a point to have her be ignorant of the make up of planets and purposely be ignorant of the material source the TF uses to make their droids, which as a character, she probably wouldn't know.

No seriously, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit while typing that.

[Winston Blake]

Even assuming they could handle only a fraction of the iron in the crust, and a battle droid masses 150 kg they should get many quadrillions if not quintillions of droids, which fits the established numbers range we've had in the past. FROM ONE PLANET.

'Handling a fraction of the iron in the crust', and 'should get quadrillions', are much less tangible than imagining an example such as '50x Earth's current production rate', and '45 billion in 15 years'.

really you can crunch the numbers any way you want but that analysis comes off as patently absurd and self-serving.

I was interested in getting a 'feel' for the quantities involved and assumed others might be too. Sorry if it 'got to you'.

[PainRack]

My god, by the end of the description of the Amazon preview, I could hear a military dude in my head saying, "If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... The M-Team."

I think it would be hilarious if we had a story about a bunch of Clone crackpack guys whose exploits are more humorous and awesome than serious or anything, with them besting foes through sheer light-hearted dickery, sorta like the Ciaphas Cain books in 40k but for Star Wars. Does Star Wars have any silly fun lighthearted stuff in the EU?

Define silly lighthearted stuff. There's the Ewoks cartoon and R2D2/C3PO.

And of course, the two Clone Wars cartoon arcs.

Something along the lines of Ciaphia Cain however is really very rare. Its either kiddy stuff which are lighthearted or superweapon/crisis of the month.

[Elfdart]

I posted on TFN that I was happy to see her go and cited why, and all I got was a let's keep it relevent. Apparently the mando wankers are loosing their hold.

On top of that, TFN's resident moron, Thrawn McEwok, thinks it's all a plot by Wayne Poe and Curtis Saxton!

But then, this is the guy who beats off to wookiee porn.

[Shroom Man 777]

Define silly lighthearted stuff. There's the Ewoks cartoon and R2D2/C3PO.

Fuck the Ewoks. But R2D2 and C3PO's playful banter was pretty fun in the OT.

And of course, the two Clone Wars cartoon arcs.

Something along the lines of Ciaphia Cain however is really very rare. Its either kiddy stuff which are lighthearted or superweapon/crisis of the month.

Do they ever do any of that good old fashioned ANH/OT type of space adventuring? Witty banter between hero and sidekick and love interest and Chewy (who gets killed by an exploding moon), cocky one-liners, just a ragtag bunch of guys winning out by the skin of their teeth? Seems like all this Jedi-Sith-Force, big war-centric intrigue stuff kinda detracts from that and it really seems like they're kind of using all the old stuff over and over again. Perhaps some actual factual goofball space comedy would actually be a breath of fresh air - culminating with a Mangdalore getting his shit ruined by a good old fashioned jetpack stick-beating.

I dunno, I'm just rambling. Bleh.

[Bakustra]

Perhaps some actual factual goofball space comedy would actually be a breath of fresh air - culminating with a Mangdalore getting his shit ruined by a good old fashioned jetpack stick-beating.

I dunno, I'm just rambling. Bleh.

There are lots of things that could be defined as a breath of fresh air when it comes to the EU. I suspect that they don't do them because it's easier to hire hacks who proceed to write epic novels of serious, galaxy-changing events. Frankly, (and I hope you agree with me) fuck that noise. I want P.G. Wodehouse in space. I want a space Jeeves, who is a droid, with a space Wooster. I want a Zelaznian hero, who's a real smartass, instead of being, as Zahnslang would have it, a sarcastic jink. I want some actual good humor. Let's get to work on an online petition, Shroomy!

[AMT]

I posted on TFN that I was happy to see her go and cited why, and all I got was a let's keep it relevent. Apparently the mando wankers are loosing their hold.

On top of that, TFN's resident moron, Thrawn McEwok, thinks it's all a plot by Wayne Poe and Curtis Saxton!

But then, this is the guy who beats off to wookiee porn.

Link?

..to his crazy paranoia, not to the wookie porn. PLEASE not to the wookie porn....

[Darth Yan]

Elfdart, would you mind posting his ramblings here. I want to fashoin a rebuttal to that fucktard.

[Anguirus]

^ I third that. That is truly bugfuck insane. IIRC Saxton hasn't even worked for Lucasfilm since the ICS series, and Poe never has.

[Elfdart]

I aims to please!

+http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b ... 856810/p16

Then there's the fourth option: the story is true, and someone wanted to spite Traviss. I'd frankly be surprised if the haters DIDN'T try and lobby Lucasfilm against her, and Wayne Poe, a key facilitator of the internet hate against Traviss, seems to be an associate of another official author, Curtis Saxton, who presumably still has further contacts within the establishment...

The above is in response to that other twat, dp4m -who was running through reasons Traviss won't be writing for Star Wars anymore. Now it might appear sarcastic at first, but I don't think so.

[Connor MacLeod]

'Handling a fraction of the iron in the crust', and 'should get quadrillions', are much less tangible than imagining an example such as '50x Earth's current production rate', and '45 billion in 15 years'.

I suppose it is less tangible, but more relevant to the whole "planetary variables" bit this lady makes up for a single planet. I mean its hard to believe that if a planet is 50% iron like Earth is, that that would be insufficient to make 40 kg battle droids out of iron or even a fraction of that number (IE the crust.) Given the Death Star and world devastators, its rather hard to argue that such materials would be inaccessible don't ya think?

Once you start thinking beyond a planet its rather obvious in many ways that the assertion doesnt work simply BECAUSe of the scope of things and the number of worlds existing. In fact, the "analysts" conclusions only make sense if you assume there is an incredibly incredibly tiny amount of iron actually existing in Star Wars to begin with - even though as I understand it iron is supposed to be the sixth most abundant element in the universe. But then THAT runs into the problem of why the Separatists (moneygrubbing bastards) would use such a rare element rather than something more common (we know there's a widespread use of metal in SW, so something has to be common) for such baseline droids - especially since rarity ought to drive the value of iron up quite a bit. (Iron wouldnt even make much sense as a material if other materials were more common too, since we have sufficient evidence to think SW has materials that exist significantly better than normal as it is.)

I was interested in getting a 'feel' for the quantities involved and assumed others might be too. Sorry if it 'got to you'.

I wasn't talking about your analysis, I was talking about Traviss' hypotheticl analyst mouthpiece. I should have been more clear in who I was referring to. My apologies.

Besides, I think the idea that "Star Wars only has a few billion tons of iron tops?" is a very tangible way to phrase the absurdity.

[Connor MacLeod]

I aims to please!

+http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b ... 856810/p16

Then there's the fourth option: the story is true, and someone wanted to spite Traviss. I'd frankly be surprised if the haters DIDN'T try and lobby Lucasfilm against her, and Wayne Poe, a key facilitator of the internet hate against Traviss, seems to be an associate of another official author, Curtis Saxton, who presumably still has further contacts within the establishment...

The above is in response to that other twat, dp4m -who was running through reasons Traviss won't be writing for Star Wars anymore. Now it might appear sarcastic at first, but I don't think so.

+http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b ... 856810/p26

Your link didnt work, I found it on this page. (which may change agian,, that seems to be a common problem with TFN's forums). And why not a conspiracy? That would appeal to the sorts of people who hate Curtis and think that like them he has Nothing Better to do with his time than conspire against Star Wars. Him mentioning Wayne is obvious since those two have a history and Wayne is well known to have been a visible critic of Traviss - what better way to arise ire than to mention him. (Its also funny to assume he somehow still cares about the issue, since he has virtually dropped out of the SW scene for awhile now, concentrating on other more personal pursuits like Curtis has. But hey! Maybe THAT'S PART OF THE CONSPIRACY TOO!)

Incidentally while browsing through the forum looking up the post, I did run across someone mentioning that Traviss updated her blog with a further response that may amuse some:

+http://karentraviss.typepad.com/blog/20 ... rt-of.html

[Darth Paxis]

At least shes not ranting about how everyone hates Mandos, although she does say that no one really gives a damn about them. I don't really get how the whole Hitler comparison works, by her own admission the Mandos aren't important in galactic affairs (small pond) so calling the Mando canon change comparable to Hitler being shot seems rather wankish, but whatever.

[Serafina]

+http://karentraviss.typepad.com/blog/20 ... rt-of.html

Wow - that's propably (one of the) worst analogy EVER.
Really, it does not fit at all...but hey, it's about WW-II, so it must be important, right?

[Darth Yan]

I've been in a pm debate with mcewok. Here's what happened so far.

Salvo 1:

why do you think saxton is trying to change the agenda? that just strickes me as shallow and petty. GL has input on the show, and it doesn't change too much. Maybe the TM and DW were the last vestiges of the mandalorians who clung to violence/

Oh, and Wayne Poe hasn't really been involved with star wars fandom since november 2008. After the Propistion 8 thread where he suffered a meltdown he pretty much burned his bridges with everyone at SDN, and apart from one appearence in January he hasn't made a single appearence. And he took his site down. Even if there is a conspiracy it's safe to say he's not involved. I won't go into the details but it was pretty nasty. I still don't like to think about it and I only read part of the thread in question.

Salvo 2:

why do you think saxton is trying to change the agenda? that just strickes me as shallow and petty. GL has input on the show, and it doesn't change too much. Maybe the TM and DW were the last vestiges of the mandalorians who clung to violence/

Do you mean it's "shallow and petty" as an assumption by me, or as a motivation to attribute to someone?

My view is this: Saxton and friends have spent a LOT of time trying to change the agenda, have used official contacts in the past as a means to do that, and are continuing to deploy their propaganda heavily in the usual places - so it's simply that I see no evidence why they'd stop or limit their focus now...

Based on previous practice, they wouldn't sell it to the official people as an attack on Traviss, just present an argument that RepCom is flawed "subordinate continuity" and as such should be "corrected"... which, coming from percieved continuity gurus, would carry weight...

In this case, they do actually have a point, as RepCom does have some problems (and I will, personally, find it hillarious if Spar got his identity back in the TV show), but there are points here where I would sympathise with Traviss - for instance, I think the Mandalorian diaspora is big enough to accomodate Satine without actually overriding stuff, and I'd be disappointed if there wasn't room for Traviss's story to more-or-less coexist...

Just because she's behaved badly or clumsily over Fenn and Spar and stuff, doesn't mean it's an excuse to do the same to Kal and Dar and stuff...

Oh, and Wayne Poe hasn't really been involved with star wars fandom since november 2008. After the Propistion 8 thread where he suffered a meltdown he pretty much burned his bridges with everyone at SDN, and apart from one appearence in January he hasn't made a single appearence. And he took his site down. Even if there is a conspiracy it's safe to say he's not involved. I won't go into the details but it was pretty nasty. I still don't like to think about it and I only read part of the thread in question.

Shows how much I pay attention. But I have two quick observations on this; they were happy enough with his manner when he was attacking their shared targets, and i'm pretty certain he's not the only proxy Saxton uses...

Thanks for the PM.


Mac

Salvo 3:

I'd provide the link, but it was unpleasent. He made nasty comments to other users, including a discriminatory comment to a transgender member. It was a "dude, not cool" moment. For a site that is pretty liberal when it comes to swearing, that was just way to far. He posted once more, but everyone was like "don't let the door hit you on the way out." As for saxton. The staff genuinely liked his change, and they did force him to make edits (the star dreadnaught was LFL's idea, not his). Plus, he payed attention to the films, which according to just about everyone are the highest canon (The database does indeed have a canon field. Anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon. Next we have what we call continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. There is secondary "S" continuity canon which we use for some older published materials and things that may or may not fit just right. But, if it is referenced in something else it becomes "C". Similarly, any "C" canon item that makes it into the films can become "G" canon. Lastly, there is non-continuity "N" which we rarely use except in the case of a blatant contradiction or for things that have been cut." Lealend Chee. and GL said
"There are two worlds here ... There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe - the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don't intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don't get too involved in the parallel universe". Which means that GL is master of everything movie related. In the Shatterpoint preview he described it as a massive galaxy wide conflict, which contradicted KT.

What I meant was that it seemed selfish to say that Saxton was responsible for every change you didn't like, and that there is a massive conspiracy. It just struck me as being petty and vindictive to assume that.

[Darth Yan]

Salvo 4:

For a site that is pretty liberal when it comes to swearing, that was just way to far.

So, why was it more acceptable when it was Karen Traviss he was taking an extended internet dump on?

As for saxton. The staff genuinely liked his change, and they did force him to make edits (the star dreadnaught was LFL's idea, not his).

You're telling me that that West-Reynolds, Chee, et al. liked his retcons because they were cool, and not primarily because they believed him when he said they were based on canon...?

Plus, he payed attention to the films, which according to just about everyone are the highest canon

You're confusing too issues here: the films are a more fundamental sort of canon, yes; but that doesn't mean that Saxton analysed them right...

Objectively, Saxton's methodology is flawed: calculating the size of things in the movie visuals proves just one thing, that the movie visuals are inconsistent and unreiable.

Additionally, even if we ignore the fact that his basic approach is invalid, his claimed "overrides" of C-canon are generally based on outright inaccuracies and very unlikely tech assumptions...

Which means that GL is master of everything movie related. In the Shatterpoint preview he described it as a massive galaxy wide conflict, which contradicted KT.

Lucas described the scope, Traviss described the tactics. I don't see the contradiction.

What I meant was that it seemed selfish to say that Saxton was responsible for every change you didn't like, and that there is a massive conspiracy. It just struck me as being petty and vindictive to assume that.

Did I say that? No, I don't believe so, and if you got that impression, it wasn't my intent.

All I'm saying is that Saxton and his friends have, through fifteen years of publicizing and lobbying, introduced a number of retcons into Star Wars that can be shown to be methodologically flawed and unneccessary...

That's not an emotional argument, merely a statement of fact. Certain aspects of the whole thing are rather impressive, too.

To say that there's no available evidence that this pattern has changed is also a statement of fact.

I'm not saying Saxton(ites) MUST have played a role in this Mando stuff, btw - it's just one of several possibilities... but it IS one of them...

Thanks, nonetheless, for the PM...


Mac

Salvo 5:

So, why was it more acceptable when it was Karen Traviss he was taking an extended internet dump on?

Because Karen acted in a way that was worthy of being criticized; she said that people who criticized her were the taliban, and that they had aspergers (I actually have that, so i found it deeply offensive); in short, she acted like a petulant child who didn't get her way. Her supporters admitted that she hadn't been flamed, and she left before things got nasty. The only reason she wrote odds was as a Fuck You to her critics.

"You're confusing too issues here: the films are a more fundamental sort of canon, yes; but that doesn't mean that Saxton analysed them right...

Objectively, Saxton's methodology is flawed: calculating the size of things in the movie visuals proves just one thing, that the movie visuals are inconsistent and unreiable.

Additionally, even if we ignore the fact that his basic approach is invalid, his claimed "overrides" of C-canon are generally based on outright inaccuracies and very unlikely tech assumptions..."

I'm sorry, but the film visuals are consistent for the most part (aside from one or two errors, and Lealend Chee said that any contradictions would be dealt with. Plus correcting contradictions is a stated purpose of the special editions). Plus they are for more consistent then the EU books, which contradict each other far more then any of the film visuals. Also, the reasons the ships look that way is because that's how the modelmakers designed them, and they did that because george lucas wanted them to do it that way (and george lucases intent trumps anything EU.) You don't throw out books because they make occasional errors, therefore, you shouldn't chuck out the film visuals for making occasional errors (in fact, they make less errors then the books.) Also, the movie making tech back in 1983 was hardly perfect, and there were bound to be a few minor errors. Also, how the hell does measuring things based on movie visuals make the visuals invalid. If they are consistent and use scaling, then it should be valid. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can ignore it

Lucas described the scope, Traviss described the tactics. I don't see the contradiction.

Except Karen Traviss's tactics were inconsistent. It would take trillions of clones to fight a galaxy sized war for 3 years. Also, there is more to war then commando raids. a war like the clone wars would involve supply lines, sieges, blockades, hand to hand combat that dragged on for ages. Commando raids would be one small part of the machine. It was large scale and fixed in place, and KT ignored it. She is not an expert.

Did I say that? No, I don't believe so, and if you got that impression, it wasn't my intent.

All I'm saying is that Saxton and his friends have, through fifteen years of publicizing and lobbying, introduced a number of retcons into Star Wars that can be shown to be methodologically flawed and unneccessary...

That's not an emotional argument, merely a statement of fact. Certain aspects of the whole thing are rather impressive, too.

To say that there's no available evidence that this pattern has changed is also a statement of fact.

I'm not saying Saxton(ites) MUST have played a role in this Mando stuff, btw - it's just one of several possibilities... but it IS one of them...

Say how they are flawed. Also Leland Chee said that the reason the executor's length was changed in 2004 was to make it more CONSISTENT WITH THE FILM VISUALS. The man who's job it is to maintain the star wars continutity says that the film visuals do matter. therefore, film visuals can't be chucked aside like you claim. They matter. Plus WEG has no clue about scale. It would take hundreds of millions of clones to maintain order on any average planet. Plus, did you consider that they might have knowingly changed things for playability purposes. And they also think that 200 meters is some big length. I find that hard to believe. Some of the ships in ROTS exceeded that length and those were the smallest.

Sincerely, Darth Yan

Any comments.

[Darth Yan]

PS can someone help me apply different colors to the fonts?

[Serafina]

PS can someone help me apply different colors to the fonts?

What, you mean like this?
It is quite simple, there is a Font color bar at the right side.

[Darth Yan]

i tried it. I found it almost unworkable.

[Serafina]

i tried it. I found it almost unworkable.

What seems to be the problem?
Just klick the color you want, and then write the text into the brackets.

Code: Select all

[color=#BF0000]"Your Text"[/color]

"Your Text"

Unless you want a very specific color - but you can acutally see them right there, so i do not know where the problem is.

[Elfdart]

Ugh! It's hard to tell where your comments end and McEwok's begin. If nothing else, boldface or italicize one or the other.

[Darth Yan]

okay. thanks for the advice. Sorry if it was illegible