The Clone Wars Season 4.

[Flagg]

I still think Palpy either drained her life away killing her from afar or Anikan accidentally used her life force to keep himself alive.

[The Romulan Republic]

I still think Palpy either drained her life away killing her from afar or Anikan accidentally used her life force to keep himself alive.

As far as I know there's no canon evidence for either of those. The most plausible explanation, if you don't accept the one stated in the film, is the medical incompetence one.

[Flagg]

Oh I agree there is no evidence for it, it just makes more sense than "she's lost the will to live" as if that means something.

[TC Pilot]

IIRC that's been retconned into the Polis Massa doctors sucking shit.

You sure you're not just thinking of Robot Chicken's "Doctor Ball, M.D."?

I know the dialogue, hence why I mentioned that it was not well written. But unless we accept that the medical droids used on Polis Massa were somehow infallible and that Padme had some unseen ability that enabled her to kill herself (which if she was healthy completely then this would have to be the case) then your accusation makes no sense. We don't even know what "losing the will to live" even entails completely. Was she somehow in an unseen way disregarding her own well being and focusing on the survival of the twins? Could the Force have been involved? Her husband didn't have a father himself after all.

I'm not particularly interested in speculating on the precise meaning of "lost the will to live." The only thing we actually do know is that the medical droids declare her "completely healthy," and I'm inclined to take them at face value. Obi-Wan, for his part, is shocked to hear she's dying. As an aside, I agree that Padme's death was badly done. I thought it would have been more plausible for Anakin to mortally wound her, like by inadvertently reflecting a blaster shot back at her or stabbing her as she saves Obi-Wan from him.

[Darth Fanboy]

It strikes me as odd that anyone would blindly accept that there was absolutely nothing medically wrong when a supposedly healthy person just dies. I am more inclined to believe that the droids just simply didn't know what was wrong.

[TC Pilot]

You can incline toward whatever you want, just so long as you can also recognize there's no actual evidence of medical incompetence to raise your rebuttal above the level of pure speculation. As I said before, I'm simply taking what evidence we have at face value. That her death is unusual doesn't change that, nor does your personal incredulity.

[Crazedwraith]

In the 2nd Courscant Nights book actually has Captain Typho recount the autopsies done by the Naboo doctors on Padme's body which indicated she was strangled to death, which may have been what Darksider was referring to.

Of course, those autopsies also concluded her child had died with her. So I think there was supposed to be some tampering with the body by Organa before handing it over.

[Azron_Stoma]

I think Dr. Franklin said it best in Babylon 5 "The human body is an amazing thing, It can cure itself, or it can simply decide one day that the world is too painful to deal with and won't cooperate no matter how hard you try to heal it." I'm sure the Force choke didn't do her any favours.

[Darth Fanboy]

You can incline toward whatever you want, just so long as you can also recognize there's no actual evidence of medical incompetence to raise your rebuttal above the level of pure speculation. As I said before, I'm simply taking what evidence we have at face value. That her death is unusual doesn't change that, nor does your personal incredulity.

Nice twisting my words, I never said the medical droid was incompetent, I said that they weren't infalliable. And unless you think SW medical tech has some sort of means of quantifying will to live then you cannot take the droid's speculation as 100% concrete fact.

Its also funny how you seem to be trying to nitpick me harder because you called a dying woman a scumbag because she died. TC Pilot logic strikes again!

[TC Pilot]

In the 2nd Courscant Nights book actually has Captain Typho recount the autopsies done by the Naboo doctors on Padme's body which indicated she was strangled to death, which may have been what Darksider was referring to.

Of course, those autopsies also concluded her child had died with her. So I think there was supposed to be some tampering with the body by Organa before handing it over.

Huh. I've never read the series so I've never heard that before. Did the autopsy actually settle on strangulation, or damage resulting from it? The former would indicate a fairly obvious (from our perspective) forgery.

Nice twisting my words, I never said the medical droid was incompetent, I said that they weren't infalliable.

And by implication asserting they're incompetent. Your own words were "I am more inclined to believe that the droids just simply didn't know what was wrong." Added with the fact they diagnosed her as "completely healthy," yeah, that's a pretty strong suggestion they're not doing a particularly stellar job.

But whatever. Next time I'll be more careful before assuming you actually had some content in your post.

As for the rest of your whinging and the blatant strawman:

[JME2]

Of course, those autopsies also concluded her child had died with her. So I think there was supposed to be some tampering with the body by Organa before handing it over.

It makes sense; Bail would want to throw Palpatine and his lackeys off the scent just in case they did get curious.

[Darth Fanboy]

And by implication asserting they're incompetent. Your own words were "I am more inclined to believe that the droids just simply didn't know what was wrong." Added with the fact they diagnosed her as "completely healthy," yeah, that's a pretty strong suggestion they're not doing a particularly stellar job.

"Not knowing" does not equate to "incompetent". Whatever killed Padme was beyond their ability to diagnose, but this happens to doctors rather frequently. But please continue twisting my words further, it's about all you're good at.

But whatever. Next time I'll be more careful before assuming you actually had some content in your post.

As for the rest of your whinging and the blatant strawman:

It wouldn't be a TC Pilot post without pointless posturing after all, because being bothered to actually back up your position with anything else is just too difficult for you.

[TC Pilot]

"Not knowing" does not equate to "incompetent". Whatever killed Padme was beyond their ability to diagnose, but this happens to doctors rather frequently.

Excepting the rather glaring fact they pronounced her completely healthy.

Yeah, because when you don't know what's killing someone, the logical conclusion is that there's nothing wrong.

You know, how about instead of just constantly crying about the big, bad random-internet-person is "twisting" your words, you actually give a reason why your interpretation is supposedly better? I'm fairly confident at this point you don't actually have anything beyond your nitpicking my word choice, but hey, maybe you can actually contribute something worthwhile for a change.

It wouldn't be a TC Pilot post without pointless posturing after all, because being bothered to actually back up your position with anything else is just too difficult for you.

I have backed up my argument, shit-for-brains. You've just been too butthurt about semantics and the fact I don't give a shit about your whittering speculation on Padme's death to even realize you haven't even addressed my argument.

[Darth Fanboy]

Excepting the rather glaring fact they pronounced her completely healthy.

And they were obviously wrong, unless you believe that Padme had some sort of unseen power which enabled her to just kill herself. The medical droid is obviously not infalliable, but you are the one who decided to take that to another level, not me.

Yeah, because when you don't know what's killing someone, the logical conclusion is that there's nothing wrong.

Nothing wrong that the droid could determine within it's ability to diagnose. That does not equate to incompetence.

You know, how about instead of just constantly crying about the big, bad random-internet-person is "twisting" your words, you actually give a reason why your interpretation is supposedly better? I'm fairly confident at this point you don't actually have anything beyond your nitpicking my word choice, but hey, maybe you can actually contribute something worthwhile for a change.

Perhaps because the explanations I am offering are simpler than "Padme allowed herself to die." I'm glad you know how to read and listen to dialogue, but i'm unimpressed with your inability to make a reasonable interpretation based on the events we witnessed. "The dialogue said so, she must have just saddened herself to death!"

I have backed up my argument, shit-for-brains. You've just been too butthurt about semantics and the fact I don't give a shit about your whittering speculation on Padme's death to even realize you haven't even addressed my argument.

Your argument is that Padme Amidala is "scum" for dying in childbirth, your reasoning is the quote from a medical droid that she had "lost the will to live." Despite seeing her be attacked, despite knowing that healthy people with no medical problems just don't die, you have decided to place blame on her for something not in her control.

I've brought up multiple, reasonable, explanations for what could have killed her, and brought up the real world truth that sometimes doctors are wrong. A preprogrammed droid that has to provide care for multiple species is likely to have some handicaps in diagnosing, especially given the short timeframe that existed while Padme was on Polis Massa. To put it simply, its easy to see that the droid was wrong.

You have decided to stick your thumbs in your ears and persist in bullshit that you've been called out for before in other arguments. I don't know why, perhaps you get off on being an ignorant prick? Whatever floats your boat I guess. But you overexaggerate yourself by referring to yourself as "big bad internet person" when you're just the same old internet idiot that you have proven to be on this forum repeatedly.

[TC Pilot]

And they were obviously wrong, unless you believe that Padme had some sort of unseen power which enabled her to just kill herself. The medical droid is obviously not infalliable, but you are the one who decided to take that to another level, not me.

Nothing wrong that the droid could determine within it's ability to diagnose. That does not equate to incompetence.

Actually, that's exactly what it is. So not only are you a useless semantic whore, you can't even do that right.

Seriously, look in a fucking dictionary before you waste someone's time again.

Perhaps because the explanations I am offering are simpler than "Padme allowed herself to die." I'm glad you know how to read and listen to dialogue, but i'm unimpressed with your inability to make a reasonable interpretation based on the events we witnessed. "The dialogue said so, she must have just saddened herself to death!"

What, you mean your "explanation" that she suffered some completely unknown injury that conveniently no one could find or explain?

Your argument is that Padme Amidala is "scum" for dying in childbirth, your reasoning is the quote from a medical droid that she had "lost the will to live." Despite seeing her be attacked, despite knowing that healthy people with no medical problems just don't die, you have decided to place blame on her for something not in her control.

Let's see, that strawman again, and your evidence it was "something not in her control"? Oh right, you have absolutely nothing. Keep those fallacies coming.

Anyway, so you're accusing Anakin of mortally wounding her now. So the doctors can't diagnose neck injury now, but they're not incompetent.

Or what, did he use the Force to kill her while he was getting turned into Vader now?

As an aside, it'd be more than a little funny to watch you try this argument on, say, Anakin's birth.

I've brought up multiple, reasonable, explanations for what could have killed her, and brought up the real world truth that sometimes doctors are wrong. A preprogrammed droid that has to provide care for multiple species is likely to have some handicaps in diagnosing, especially given the short timeframe that existed while Padme was on Polis Massa. To put it simply, its easy to see that the droid was wrong.

Since apparently "make up whatever's convenient" is all you have going, here's an entirely plausible theory: Padme was secretly poisoning herself behind everyone's backs. Since a preprogrammed droid providing care for multiple species is likely incompe... I mean "likely to have some handicaps in diagnosing," the droids could easily have failed to notice the poison.

You have decided to stick your thumbs in your ears and persist in bullshit that you've been called out for before in other arguments. I don't know why, perhaps you get off on being an ignorant prick? Whatever floats your boat I guess. But you overexaggerate yourself by referring to yourself as "big bad internet person" when you're just the same old internet idiot that you have proven to be on this forum repeatedly.

Do you actually think I care about some little grudge you have against me? You're even more pathetic than I thought. More to the point, I didn't give a shit about your speculation or your personal incredulity five posts ago, and I certainly don't care about it now.

Seriously, get the fuck over yourself. This whole tangent has been nothing but you nitpicking semantics and whinging over your opinion. Take a cue from Flagg, Romulan Republic, or Darksider and try not to be such a spazzy little bitch about it. What a fucking joke.

[Darth Fanboy]

Actually, that's exactly what it is. So not only are you a useless semantic whore, you can't even do that right.

Seriously, look in a fucking dictionary before you waste someone's time again.

So there is no middle ground between "always gets it right" and "not qualified to do the job" now?

What, you mean your "explanation" that she suffered some completely unknown injury that conveniently no one could find or explain?

That one droid could not find, as far as we know she was not treated by anyone else before reaching Polis Massa. People die from ailments not diagnosed correctly all the time, and the problem in this case is exacerbated because we aren't dealing with a doctor specilizing in the human anatomy.

Let's see, that strawman again, and your evidence it was "something not in her control"? Oh right, you have absolutely nothing. Keep those fallacies coming.

You are the one claiming that she died on her own accord based on one line of dialogue, a line that we both agree was poorly written and does not readily fit. People with nothing medically wrong do not die in a short period of time the way she did, it's pretty obvious there was some underlying cause. If Padme's death is somehow not intentional on her part then your initial bullshit falls to pieces, but I guess retracting a dumbass statement is beyond your capability.

Anyway, so you're accusing Anakin of mortally wounding her now. So the doctors can't diagnose neck injury now, but they're not incompetent.

Again with the Black and White fallacy here regarding the competence of the preprogrammed droid. It's pretty clear that something Anakin did to her, likely some sort of damage did occur. The medical droids as I have said are not specializing in human anatomy, this would be like a human general practicioner going into the Zoo to diagnose different animals in the collection. The droid wasn't skilled enough in this situation, the droids were skilled enough to assist in childbirth.

Or what, did he use the Force to kill her while he was getting turned into Vader now?

I don't believe that is necessarily the case, but physical damage could have been done that didn't register for the droid, who was probably programmed primarily to treat Polis Massans.

As an aside, it'd be more than a little funny to watch you try this argument on, say, Anakin's birth.

Absolutely not relevant to the discussion as we know absolutely nothing of Anakin's birth beyond his mother's recollection. We SEE the events related to Padme's death. Love it when people grasping at strings try to bring in irrelevant bullshit to distract from their own failings.

Since apparently "make up whatever's convenient" is all you have going, here's an entirely plausible theory: Padme was secretly poisoning herself behind everyone's backs. Since a preprogrammed droid providing care for multiple species is likely incompe... I mean "likely to have some handicaps in diagnosing," the droids could easily have failed to notice the poison.

So in order to try and refute my points you devise elaborate fiction? Her being injured by Anakin's choke happened is reasonable because we see her being choke, she dies not long after. If you think that's a leap in logic there's really not much hope for you.

Do you actually think I care about some little grudge ...

I stopped reading at this point because I think it's funny that you overinflate your own imprtance and think that this is a grudge, rather than the result of us arguing multiple times. Hilarious.

[Galvatron]

I still think Palpy either drained her life away killing her from afar or Anikan accidentally used her life force to keep himself alive.

A third possibility is that Palpatine had her poisoned because he feared Anakin's offspring AND because it would have triggered Anakin's visions of her impending death.

[TC Pilot]

So there is no middle ground between "always gets it right" and "not qualified to do the job" now?

Pretty much, yeah. They're machines. They're either capable of identifying the problem or they aren't.

No doubt this will provoke more blubbering about your conveniently made-up programming limitations.

That one droid

"For reasons we can't explain, we are losing her."

and the problem in this case is exacerbated because we aren't dealing with a doctor specilizing in the human anatomy.

Based on...?

I particularly like how you later go on to say they're qualified to assist in human pregnancy (cuz, you know, that's clearly a priority over general treatment ). How convenient for you. But really, when your entire argument is "I say so," just making up shit without a shred of proof isn't really a surprise.

You are the one claiming that she died on her own accord based on one line of dialogue, a line that we both agree was poorly written and does not readily fit.

I didn't agree to that at all. I said that Padme's death was poorly-done, as in, the Prequels suck, partly, I'll add, because of awful characters like Padme. Try and read what's actually written by someone, not the made-up fantasy in your deranged head.

People with nothing medically wrong do not die in a short period of time the way she did, it's pretty obvious there was some underlying cause. If Padme's death is somehow not intentional on her part then your initial bullshit falls to pieces, but I guess retracting a dumbass statement is beyond your capability.

Pretty sure my position is that it was intentional, champ.

Again with the Black and White fallacy here regarding the competence of the preprogrammed droid. It's pretty clear that something Anakin did to her, likely some sort of damage did occur. The medical droids as I have said are not specializing in human anatomy, this would be like a human general practicioner going into the Zoo to diagnose different animals in the collection. The droid wasn't skilled enough in this situation, the droids were skilled enough to assist in childbirth.

So basically, your position is exactly the same as Darksider and Romulan Republic, but you're too much of a blubbering twat to use "incompetent."

Again, what a fucking joke.

Absolutely not relevant to the discussion as we know absolutely nothing of Anakin's birth beyond his mother's recollection.

No shit it's not relevant to the discussion. That's what "as an aside" means, you bloody twit.

So in order to try and refute my points you devise elaborate fiction?

You haven't presented anything to refute. You've just tossed up some speculation you find more plausible than my reading of the ROTS dialouge. This will be the half-dozenth time I've said this to you now, but here goes anyway: I don't give a shit what you think is more plausible.

Her being injured by Anakin's choke happened is reasonable because we see her being choke, she dies not long after. If you think that's a leap in logic there's really not much hope for you.

I don't think it's a leap in logic at all. That you still haven't figured that out is testament to how much of a blithering idiot you really are. Seriously, go back and look at the first sentence of my post before you went off on your nitpick tangent about "twisting" your words. Not once have I disputed the validity of "medical incompetence." Or, so you won't have another conniption fit, the validity of "not programmed sufficiently to diagnose Padme's injuries."

I stopped reading at this point because I think it's funny that you overinflate your own imprtance and think that this is a grudge, rather than the result of us arguing multiple times. Hilarious.

Well, you started with semantic whoring, and now you end with it. Rather fitting, I suppose. Alright, you don't have a grudge, you're just a pathetic idiot who keeps mentioning some argument we apparently had... what, months, years? ago as if that's supposed to mean anything.

I don't suppose the particulars matter all that much. The fact remains your post is a hilarious trainwreck of retarded reading comprehension failures and semantic nitpicks. No doubt you'll just cry and flail around some more, though. I'm sure the seventh time I hear your speculation I didn't give a shit about will be the one where I finally come around.

[Darth Fanboy]

Pretty much, yeah. They're machines. They're either capable of identifying the problem or they aren't.

So because this droid makes a mistake (which again, it did, because healthy people don't just die) it's incompetent. I do apologize that I keep bringing up the difficulties of treating multiple and possibly unfamiliar species, because its actually relevant even though you'd like to ignore it in order to further your own cause.

"For reasons we can't explain, we are losing her."

Again i'm very glad you can read and listen to dialogue, I know it must be difficult for you. Now if you could only apply some reasoning.

Based on...?

They are Polis Massan droid at a Polis Massan medical facility, why would they make sure to go out of their way to have a droid that can work on humans. You do realize that between species there is an incredible amount of biological difference?

I particularly like how you later go on to say they're qualified to assist in human pregnancy (cuz, you know, that's clearly a priority over general treatment ). How convenient for you. But really, when your entire argument is "I say so," just making up shit without a shred of proof isn't really a surprise.

Well we do see them deliver human babies, and for the sake of honestly I am compelled to mention that and make that concession. If we don't see those droids delivering the babies, it could be even easier to believe that the droids simply weren't programmed for human medical care.

I didn't agree to that at all. I said that Padme's death was poorly-done, as in, the Prequels suck, partly, I'll add, because of awful characters like Padme. Try and read what's actually written by someone, not the made-up fantasy in your deranged head.

Ahem...

But yeah, another of the many reasons why Padme is a complete scumbag.

Out of curiosity, what other reasons do you have for claiming Padme is a scumbag?

What else? Oh yeah, leaving her newborn twins orphans after losing the will to live.

You twist words often enough, you get caught in them.

Pretty sure my position is that it was intentional, champ.

And knowing that Padme Amidala is a normal human being with no percieved special abilities or powers, you still believe she just simply died without anything wrong with her.

So basically, your position is exactly the same as Darksider and Romulan Republic, but you're too much of a blubbering twat to use "incompetent."

Again, what a fucking joke.

And you are so fixated on that you're unable to get the rest of your dishonest bullshit caught up to speed. Ironic since you're the one being sematic about that definition, yet accusing me of doing the same.

Snipped, rest of quote is more useless TC Pilot posturing devoid of content

There are moments where I think you are just trolling. If so, good for you sir.


EDIT: Fixed a quote tag

[TC Pilot]

So because this droid makes a mistake (which again, it did, because healthy people don't just die) it's incompetent.

How many times does this have to be spelled out to you before it sinks in? Ten? Twenty times?

For someone who keeps posturing about me being "fixated" on this, you sure do keep bringing it up a lot.

But hey, better than drawing attention to your chronic reading comprehension failures, I guess.

They are Polis Massan droid at a Polis Massan medical facility, why would they make sure to go out of their way to have a droid that can work on humans. You do realize that between species there is an incredible amount of biological difference?

Why would they have droids capable of treating the most populous species in the galaxy? But I digress...

So again, you have no evidence. That was totally unexpected.

Really, this is starting to transcend farce. Seven posts now I've repeatedly said I don't care about your speculation... and you keep responding with your speculation as though "I think this is more plausible" is going to do anything. Seriously, are you actually deranged? Do you have some kind of mental disorder? Or did you flunk elementary school reading class?

Ahem... *snip Fanboy completely missing the point*

More reading comprehension failure. So shocking.

You said "one line of dialogue, a line that we both agree was poorly written and does not readily fit." I pointed out I never agreed to that at all. Not only did I use the same verbage to link it to my response, a few lines down I flat-out state that my position is that Padme died intentionally, completely contradictory to the conclusion you drew.

So again, try actually reading before you respond.

And knowing that Padme Amidala is a normal human being with no percieved special abilities or powers, you still believe she just simply died without anything wrong with her.

Yep. Why, am I supposed to care that you don't like that?

That you personally find this unacceptable is, as I've said seven times now, inconsequential to me. This is a universe with immaculate conception and wizards who evaporate upon dying.

By the way, here's what the novel says about it:

Obi-Wan cast an appeal toward the medical droid. "Can't you do something?"

"All organic damage has been repaired." The droid checked another readout. "This systemic failure cannot be explained."

Not physically, Obi-Wan thought.

[The Romulan Republic]

I liked the start of the new episode, especially the shots of the Acclamator coming in to land with its escorts. I liked the king's dialog too. How did it go? "Welcome to our disaster. Nice you could join us."? Also interesting to see the clones handling a non-combat job, ie disaster relief. And R2 leaping into the tunnel after C3PO was cool. He's a pretty loyal droid, isn't he?

The little blue aliens were kind of annoying though. Like smurfs with pointy teeth, they were. The tree-like ones were kind of cool though.

I do have to say, the scale was disappointingly small, however. One Acclamator plus escorts to help a whole planet? Then again, I got the feeling that (to the army at least) this wasn't high priority. They probably consider the war more important. So they might not have sent everything they could have.

All in all it was a bit boring though. Not bad, but not great.

[Ryag Han]

i kinda liked it trough most of the episode. what disappointed me was the end. they just put the Spoiler

seal back on the hole

. could have done better. the tree-like aliens were so cool looking. could have done more with them. the Aleen were kinda pathetic though.

the planet was cool. i like that they showed the Acclamator descending to the planet, with the sun rising. they got pretty good at animation.

medium to weak episode. not the best, but there were worse. im looking at you "Senate Spy"!

[bilateralrope]

How did the surface dwellers not even understand Basic while the underground creatures, who seemed unknown to the Republic, could speak it fluently ?

That part is very suspicious.

[Darksider]

Do we know they were speaking basic? They were talking to threepio. They could've just used spoken english to avoid annoying the viewers with excessive alien babbling.

[Ryag Han]

Do we know they were speaking basic? They were talking to threepio. They could've just used spoken english to avoid annoying the viewers with excessive alien babbling.

that was what i was feeling they were doing.