The Clone Wars Season 5 - Spoilers!

[Vympel]

Best action of the episode was Anakin catching Barris Offee in mid-air - you could tell he got aggressive and just dominated the fight from that point.

[Darksider]

The only thing that really bugged me is this: why did Bariss keep Ventress' lightsabers? If she'd just tossed them in a waste bin then Anakin would've had no means of proving she was responsible.

We're supposed to believe she can flawlessly set up an attack on the goddam Jedi temple, kill a maximum security prisoner without being noticed, and set someone else up to take the fall, but then she makes that kind of stupid mistake?

[RogueIce]

Maybe it was a trophy or something for her. Or she was holding on to them for some other use in some future plot she may have had against the Jedi (why would the Temple bombing be her one and only act if she feels as strongly as she does?) and didn't really expect Anakin to catch on to her.

I don't think she would have known Ventriss could implicate her the way she did. Or that Ventriss would even be believed, for that matter. Anakin was just as likely to kill her as talk to her. Which he damn near did, anyway.

[Thanas]

I do not like how they continue to disregard previously published stuff, it looks like they do not do their homework. There was no need to use the Offee character they could have just used another of the many jedi they invented.

[Flagg]

I do not like how they continue to disregard previously published stuff, it looks like they do not do their homework. There was no need to use the Offee character they could have just used another of the many jedi they invented.

Oh boo hoo, the Lucasfilm writers don't read bad licensed garbage and used characters to suit their own needs. I weep for you Thanas. I weep for you.

[Thanas]

I do not like how they continue to disregard previously published stuff, it looks like they do not do their homework. There was no need to use the Offee character they could have just used another of the many jedi they invented.

Oh boo hoo, the Lucasfilm writers don't read bad licensed garbage and used characters to suit their own needs. I weep for you Thanas. I weep for you.

Actually, the stuff they disregarded was pretty good writing. You know that I hate most of the EU, so trust me when I say this was completely unnecessary.

[RogueIce]

I do not like how they continue to disregard previously published stuff, it looks like they do not do their homework. There was no need to use the Offee character they could have just used another of the many jedi they invented.

Oh, Filoni at least knows when they trample over the EU. It's just that they don't seem to care. Or Lucas himself doesn't care. I don't know where they fall on that one for any given story point.

WRT using Barriss Offee, I thought it worked well to add that extra touch of betryal to Ahsoka and drive her to leave the Order. The only downside is that I can't remember having seen Barriss since Brian Invaders back in season 2; she should have showed up some more since then, if nothing else to reinforce the friendship she has with Ahsoka. Maybe even set up subtle clues as to her changing feelings toward the Jedi Order, but that would depend on just how long they've known they were going to this place with her character.

I have seen some decent fanon on why she did what she did, and even about why she decided to frame Ahsoka aside from 'lol villiany'. I wonder if they'll explore this angle more in season 6. I kinda hope they do. I mean I'm sure we'll see more of Ahsoka, Anakin and Obi wan dealing with the fallout, but I hope they don't just write off Barriss completely.

[Agent Fisher]

Season 6? I thought this was the last season for clone wars?

[Flagg]

Season 6? I thought this was the last season for clone wars?

Nope, they are well underway on season 6 already.

[Ire]

I do not like how they continue to disregard previously published stuff, it looks like they do not do their homework. There was no need to use the Offee character they could have just used another of the many jedi they invented.

Oh boo hoo, the Lucasfilm writers don't read bad licensed garbage and used characters to suit their own needs. I weep for you Thanas. I weep for you.

Your implying this was any better the the stiff it's shitting over.

Not to mention they don't even show much of Ahsoka's reaction to it in the first place

[Flagg]

I do not like how they continue to disregard previously published stuff, it looks like they do not do their homework. There was no need to use the Offee character they could have just used another of the many jedi they invented.

Oh boo hoo, the Lucasfilm writers don't read bad licensed garbage and used characters to suit their own needs. I weep for you Thanas. I weep for you.

Your implying this was any better the the stiff it's shitting over.

Not to mention they don't even show much of Ahsoka's reaction to it in the first place

No, I'm implying that to assume a TV writer is going to read all bits of EU garbage minutia and should be bound by it, is fucking dumb.

[Ire]

Oh boo hoo, the Lucasfilm writers don't read bad licensed garbage and used characters to suit their own needs. I weep for you Thanas. I weep for you.

Your implying this was any better the the stiff it's shitting over.

Not to mention they don't even show much of Ahsoka's reaction to it in the first place

No, I'm implying that to assume a TV writer is going to read all bits of EU garbage minutia and should be bound by it, is fucking dumb.

I'm not saying he should be bound by it. I'm saying you can totally avoid a contradiction for something that could have happened to any other frigging character. And Filoni's implied he's aware of it in one of his blogs so yeah

[Thanas]

No, I'm implying that to assume a TV writer is going to read all bits of EU garbage minutia and should be bound by it, is fucking dumb.

It hardly is minutiae when it is a whole novel and several comics.

[Darksider]

I have to agree with Thanas, at least somewhat. The Bariss-centered Medstar duology was one of the good bits of the E.U. For them to retcon that by making Bariss a traitor is kind of annoying. If they'd actually done something to show her evolution from the Republic-loyal Jedi seen in the Medstar books and earlier in TCW, it might not have been as bad. There's no explanation for why she decided to betray the Jedi short of a five second rant

[RogueIce]

I wonder if this would be even half the issue it apparently is has LFL adopted a more Trek-like continuity policy from the beginning. That the novels, comics, games, etc are all nice stories, and may even be consistent with one another, but have nothing whatsoever to do with the films and televised series.

Which one could say seems to at least be the unofficial policy at this point, despite Leland Chee's efforts to retcon everything to make it all fit...somehow.

EDIT: Though apparently they just toss out the stuff they can't make fit, like with Evan Piell and Adi Gallia. They just don't seem to know how much to cut from Barriss Offee at this point, from Chee's Facebook page.

Wonder if that means TCW is planning to do more with her and Chee just isn't at liberty to say anything.

[Darksider]

I think that the previous canon policy is a part of some people's objection to the series. If people didn't think of the Medstar books as events that happened in-universe, then Bariss' betrayal wouldn't seem so out of character. Mind you it would still seem slightly out of character since the last time we saw her she was completely loyal to the Republic, but like Rogue said maybe her reasons will be explained in season six.

But for the Bariss Ofee who busted her ass to save clones on Drongar to inject a dude with nanodroids to use him as an unwitting suicide bomber? Complete fucking 180.

[Thanas]

The problem is that she is not even consistent with herself. She wants to save the galaxy from the threat of Jedi - and does so by turning innocents into bombs/strangling them?

Darksider, even more of an 180 considering she kills several clones in cold blood here.

[RogueIce]

Mind you it would still seem slightly out of character since the last time we saw her she was completely loyal to the Republic

Yep, I would agree with this. The weakness is that we haven't seen Offee since season 2. This undercuts the emotional aspect of the betrayal itself (it would be more impactful had they given more screentime showing Ahsoka and Barriss' friendship) as well as the relative lack of buildup relating to her deciding to turn against the Jedi Order and resort to such extreme tactics.

EDIT: I should mention the above is from the POV of somebody who hasn't read any EU materials involving Barriss Offee. So that isn't affecting my opinion on how they handled the reveal of the finale.

Part of this you could question at just how long they were planning to have Barriss be the culprit, as that would go into whether or not they could properly foreshadow her betrayal.

I do think it also speaks to a more structural aspect of this show, that can be viewed as both a strength and weakness: the standalone nature of the various multipart "mini" arcs that compose the seasons now. While it's clear the events of each arc do matter to the greater whole (as Ahsoka mentioned General Krell and his fall to the Dark Side earlier in the first part of this one) the fact is once an arc is over, they just sort of move on and start as if the previous events didn't happen - the occasional reference aside. It's almost like a reset button is half-way being pushed when you move from arc to arc. The events do matter to the greater whole, but are rarely referenced unless they have some direct meaning to the episode in question.

While we're not skipping around the timeline as in earlier seasons, it does lend itself to a similar disjointed feel affecting the series as a whole.

I'm not sure how I really feel on this point. On the one hand I don't want it to go completely serialized, the episodes going around to the various fronts in the war rather than focusing solely on the Power Trio of Obi-wan, Anakin and Ahsoka certainly has its merits; but sometimes it can lead to disappointments with the lack of followup and potential payoffs to events in previous episodes: not seeing how both Anakin and Rex responded when the 501st was reunited with their Jedi following the events on Umbara is one glaring example.

I guess we'll see how they structure season 6, as the ending of this finale definately requires followup, and they'd be crazy to leave the question of just where Ahoska went after she descended those steps unanswered in the season premiere, IMO.

[Darksider]

My dissatisfaction with Bariss turning traitor is only the latest symptom of a problem i've always had with the series. There are now essentially two versions of the Clone Wars. There's the version shown in various books, comics, and games that were made to keep people interested in between Episode II and Episode III, and the version depicted in the T.V. series. During the first couple of seasons of TCW, I thought it would be a stretch to do, but the two versions might be reconciled.

I no longer think the two versions of the Clone Wars are reconcilable with each other. The series has shown too many major events, and done too many things differently for it to just take place in between the gaps in the original timeline. When the series is over, the word is going to come down from on high, and the previous version of the Clone Wars depicted in the E.U. will be retconned out of existence, and that's a shame, because I believe the original depiction of the clone wars was stronger overall. The T.V. series has had its moments to be sure, there have been some spectacular arcs, but overall the previous E.U. material was better. The Separatists felt like a genuine threat to the Republic, the villains were more intimidating and anyone who's survival wasn't contractually obligated by Episode III was in danger from them. The portions that depicted the political state of the galaxy and showed the Republic's slow transformation into the empire were done with a sense of subtlety, and didn't just shove political allegory down the viewer's throat like the show. All in all, it was the superior picture of the events of the Clone Wars, and i'm honestly kind of sad that it's all going to be erased.

[Thanas]

Yeah, that is how I feel about it too.

It was one of the few pieces of EU that was actually any good, had good overall editing and an overarching plot, didn't meander much, had little padding and actual threats...

All things lacking in the TV series. Season 1 had it because it focused on small, specific actions overall. But the last few series...meh. I miss things like the chase of the seperatist SD, like the battles that actually felt like fullscale battles instead of small engagements and skirmishes etc.

It is not epic.

[Darksider]

It is not epic.

This. One of my biggest disappointments with season five is that we finally get to see a full-on space battle between the Republic and the Separatists, with Grevious ambushing Obi-wan's fleet and scoring what must be his first real victory in the series. It's a well-scripted and action packed sequence that makes Grevious seem like a deadly opponent again instead of the joke he's turned in to, and it's also the five minute long B-plot to explain why Obi-wan can't come and rescue Ahsoka and the Jedi younglings when they're attacked by pirates.

There are so many points in the series where I just go "no, why are you focusing on this? I want to see what's happening with the other stuff." There hasn't been a real "war arc" since the excellent Umbara arc back in season four, and for a season of a show titled "The Clone Wars" to go an entire season without focusing on a battle in said war is just stupid. I want to see more outright clashes between the Republic and the Confederacy, like Ryloth in season 1 or Geonosis in season 2, and this season really didn't deliver on that. I liked the Mandalore and Jedi Traitor arcs (Bariss' bullshit mis-characterization notwithstanding) but overall season 5 was a disappointment.

[Thanas]

They want to do more character work. Except they focus on bad ones. Padme has disappeared, instead we get resurrected spider-maul and stupid sith apprentice 2.0 in Oppress. Their mythology stuff with the nightsisters was baaad. The pirate stuff does nothing for me. The droid arc meanwhile was just boring.

If they want to do character work, do it with real characters who actually have room to develop. Ahsoka is a good start. More Ventress would be better. More Anakin and Padme would be even better. But don't waste episodes on bullshit nightsister/maul stuff. Don't resurrect old villains.

[Flagg]

Well, show is now cancelled with "specials" being planned. Apparently for the episodes they already have done. MY guess it we'll get a few movies a year. Looks like the shift to the ST has begun.

[Havok]

ST?

[Flagg]

Get used to it. Sequel Trilogy.

Possibly "TST"