Star Wars Canon about to be completely redefined

[Thanas]

Note the person? bot? who wrote that wrote it in past tense. Implying they do not like it now.

[Galvatron]

Permalink

Raises hand.

I will be the first to admit I liked the Crystal Star.

Freaking weird ass Eldritch Abominations? Sign me up. Honestly I rather liked a lot of the pre-New Jedi Order stuff. Maybe it's the nostalgia glasses, but there was just something far more "Star Wars" about the Bantam era.

[Thanas]

Reddit = bot. I require video evidence of people saying it in front of a video camera.

[Galvatron]

Is it so hard to believe? Some people even liked The Truce at Bakura.

[Thanas]

Are you saying they are on the same level of quality? Definitely trolling.

[Galvatron]

Nah, The Truce at Bakura was dull, but it wasn't utter shit like The Crystal Star was. I'll give you that. The point is: some people like utter shit.

[Thanas]

Truce at Bakura is pretty good for the character stuff, but I will agree the villains are crap.

[Havok]

Appreciate, awesome and EU in the same sentence... I'm gonna let that sink in for a second.

Listen dude, I'm really sorry that you suffer from some sort of dysfunction that prevents you from grasping the brilliance of Darksaber but there really isn’t anything I can do about that. I truly hope medical science one day finds a way to treat it.

I'm pretty sure you are just trolling me at this point.

And clearly you are the shit head because you obviously don't understand WORDS. Lucas never disregarded anything. He simply stated that there is his world and the EU's. He made a distinction in how he VIEWED the EU and which one he operated in and that is it. If some EU got changed because he made more movies then I don't know what to tell you other than you have a twisted perspective on how things work.

That IS disregarding it? Star Wars is a shared universe and has been for a long time. You don’t go mucking with the canon of a shared universe without a damned good reason, and those prequel movies sure as fuck did not qualify. Again, if Lucas wasn’t willing to conform to the canon other Star Wars writers created between the original trilogy and the prequels he shouldn’t have invited them in to begin with.

WORDS MOTHERFUCKER! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THEM?
Lucas specifically state that there were two distinct continuities, his own and the EU's. His consisted of the movies and I'm assuming the TV movies and anything else he had a direct hand in. The EU was it's own that contained the movies and anything else. This means that if the EU decided that Palpatine comes back in a year after ROTJ then fine. What you are failing to understand the difference between is Lucas and Lucas Licensing. If Lucas did something in the movies, then Lucas Licensing and all the other companies made sure everything fell in line with that, not because of some grand command from Lucas, but because every Star Wars fan in existence, except you apparently, wants to take the creators word as to what happened over some second rate hack writer like Kevin J. Anderson or Karren Travis. Holding to the idea that Lucas has to read and know every piece of EU so that his movies don't step on Kevin J Anderson's toes or ruffle Dark Horse's feathers if fucking asinine.

Please, please point out the great plot lines and characters that were cut short or radically changed.

Turning the Clone Wars into something that happened not twenty years prior and with the clones as the good guys, thereby doing a number of the Thrawn trilogy’s backstory? Instituting the Rule of Two and saying that no Force sensitives were born after Anakin’s fall, thereby invalidating the backstory of most every other Sith and Dark Jedi character? Generally disregarding everything that had already been established about the Star Wars universe?

Newsflash moron, the Clone Wars was established as being in Obi-Wan's past in 1977. Given that Guinness was 62 when the movie was made and everyone assumed Luke was 19-20 that puts Obi-Wan at the most around 42 when Luke was born. Given that Luke's father who supposedly died in the Clone Wars or right after at the hands of Vader or as a navigator on a spice freighter after Luke was at least conceived, would have put him at least around Obi-Wan's age. Now since Luke didn't say, "Wait a minute the Clone Wars was 50 years ago! How did my dad fight and die in a war 30 years before I was born?!" puts the Clone Wars lasting to at least 20 and at the most 40 years before A New Hope slick, unless Anakin was getting girls pregnant in his teens.

Going even further, Shaw who was 77 in 1983 (although only 4-5 years in universe time passed) puts him at 24-25 years younger when Luke was conceived meaning 52-53. Even accepting that Anakin was older than Obi-Wan, which absolutely no one did by the time of Empire and ROTJ because we know for a fact he was younger, and much younger at that, that still only puts a feasible time of the Clone Wars being in the same 40 year time range before Luke was born unless Anakin was fighting in it when he was 10 or so.

Sorry your fave author has a problem with math, but maybe you should take your mouth off the EU's ass and watch the source material.

As to the Rule of Two that has nothing to do with anything after Palpatine was killed, so you are just a fucking idiot. And my gawd, if he had laid down the rule that no Force users could be born after the movies, which is actually retarded in universe, and he fucking didn't, would have been ironically GENIUS and maybe we would have gotten some far better EU material.

Again, I don’t care if he wanted to make crappy movies to show off how good his CGI was. It’s his copyright, he’s welcome to make money off of it. Actively disregarding the work of great authors like Zahn and Allston and Kevin J Anderson is insulting to them and to the fans who grew up with them.

OK. Now I know you are trolling.

[Havok]

This has been..what? The third or fourth time some article has come to proclaim the apparently inevitable demise of the EU? One should hope that people would get the hint after awhile, but can everyone try reading what was actually said in the twitter posts before they ring the death gongs of the EU based on (yet another) incredibly poorly sourced article full of wild-eyed speculation? They are not taking a chainsaw to the EU. Literally the opposite. What's actually going on is that they're basically going to be abolishing the hierarchy, with the G-T-C system being relegated to more of a system of classification then a pyramid.

In other words, the EU is actually now on equal footing with the movies.

For fuck's sake people, this was all posted not three threads above in very simple terms.

*snipped because of all the quotes*

So, It looks like instead of Chee keeping the holocron, or simply an established hierarchy, this "Lucasfilm Story Group" will manage canon by committee, and they're not going to be restrained by the old G/T/C/etc. conventions (much less the older hierarchy). A radical shakeup like this makes sense moving forward; it also gives me hope that they'll try to incorperate at least some of the exsisting post-ROTJ EU into the new trilogy. Exactly how this breaks down remains to be seen, though.

All that means is that whatever comes out now is canon. JJ Abrahms and Kasadan don't give a fuck about canon and they are beholden only to the movies. Just the fact that this movie is even coming out practically already invalidates everything post ROTJ. Just because now everything is canon, doesn't mean EVERYTHING is canon. Sorry kiddies, you're fucked.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Again, I don’t care if he wanted to make crappy movies to show off how good his CGI was. It’s his copyright, he’s welcome to make money off of it. Actively disregarding the work of great authors like Zahn and Allston and Kevin J Anderson is insulting to them and to the fans who grew up with them.

OK. Now I know you are trolling.

KJA, yeah, he's trolling. Zahn and Allston however did some good books. Allston managed to be cool by generally avoiding force users.

[Vendetta]

Hey, I bet somewhere out there is a big fan of The Crystal Star.

.............

Y'know I bet if you went back and read it you'd find that TCS is no worse than any of the other terrible books perpetrated in the name of the Star Wars EU.

I don't remember any particular dislike of it, but then the fact I was reading Star Wars books back then shows that my judgement was compromised anyway and cannot be used as a reliable indicator of taste.

[RogueIce]

Hey, I bet somewhere out there is a big fan of The Crystal Star.

.............

Y'know I bet if you went back and read it you'd find that TCS is no worse than any of the other terrible books perpetrated in the name of the Star Wars EU.

I don't remember any particular dislike of it, but then the fact I was reading Star Wars books back then shows that my judgement was compromised anyway and cannot be used as a reliable indicator of taste.

I don't know about that. The Crystal Star is literally the only book I have ever felt like it was a chore to finish reading. Even books I despised or thought were utter crap (Order 66 and both TFU novels) I was still able to finish without it feeling like actual work, a few breaks for eye-rolling aside.

Granted anecdotal evidence and all that, but TCS was a special kind of terrible. And this was back when I was in Middle School, to boot.

[Darksider]

I don't think I ever got more than a quarter of the way into The Crystal Star. The only thing I really remember about it is that they retconned Desann's "Reborn" Jedi from Jedi Outcast into being in league with the villain from that book.

[Batman]

I'm with RI here. A lot of the EU is pretty damned terrible (and I gave up on it before I ever ran into Karen Traviss) but nothing before or since was as bad as TCS. Bad as KJA was, I at least knew I was reading a Star Wars novel. An incredibly bad one, but it was definitely Star Wars. TCS was...I dunno. Somebody's really bad acid trip that involved Star Wars references here and there perhaps? Compared to TCS, 'Darksaber' looks pretty damned solid.
And I rather liked 'Truce at Bakura'. Yeah, the villains were pretty damned wonky at best, but at least Luke got a love interest who wasn't family.

[Crayz9000]

I don't think I ever got more than a quarter of the way into The Crystal Star. The only thing I really remember about it is that they retconned Desann's "Reborn" Jedi from Jedi Outcast into being in league with the villain from that book.

... Other way around, actually. Jedi Outcast did the retconning since it came out after TCS.

[Darksider]

In the original game, no mention whatsoever was made that the Desann's Reborn were part of the same movement. Everything that linked them to the villains of The Crystal Star was done afterwards. I think it was a Hyperspace article.

[Adam Reynolds]

I'm with RI here. A lot of the EU is pretty damned terrible (and I gave up on it before I ever ran into Karen Traviss) but nothing before or since was as bad as TCS. Bad as KJA was, I at least knew I was reading a Star Wars novel. An incredibly bad one, but it was definitely Star Wars. TCS was...I dunno. Somebody's really bad acid trip that involved Star Wars references here and there perhaps? Compared to TCS, 'Darksaber' looks pretty damned solid.

Alongside The New Rebellion, Children of the Jedi, The Corellian trilogy and The Black Fleet Crisis I would say it was among the worst as there was the problem that nothing of consequence happened but it was still involving the main characters and treated as being significant even though those stories could effortlessly be skipped, which was almost a positive in terms of reading what was descent but made the stories completely useless additions.

As for KJA, he at least had somewhat interesting concepts even if rather poorly executed. I, Jedi did largely rehabilitate the Jedi Academy trilogy as it managed to tell an interesting story with that backdrop and really ask the question of what the role of a Jedi in that era really was. I, Jedi was also interesting in that it used an original character but the movie characters were still present and doing things of significance(from the KJA trilogy). Darksaber largely had some interesting plot elements that were poorly executed. Despite Daala being a lousy character the Imperial reunification was at least an interesting concept. The Darksaber superweapon was also interesting as an allegory for nuclear proliferation but had the problem that it failed in universe meaning that story was completely irrelevant.

And I rather liked 'Truce at Bakura'. Yeah, the villains were pretty damned wonky at best, but at least Luke got a love interest who wasn't family.

Or another Jedi. It was refreshing to see someone normal with different beliefs than his.

[RogueIce]

In the original game, no mention whatsoever was made that the Desann's Reborn were part of the same movement. Everything that linked them to the villains of The Crystal Star was done afterwards. I think it was a Hyperspace article.

It wasn't one of those dumb "What's the Story?" things where some fatty nerd fanboy came up with bullshit information bullshit was it?

Another reason to nuke the present EU "canon" now that I think about it.

[Darksider]

Actually, looking around the interwebs, it was a Wizards of the Coast RPG scenario they posted on their website that linked the two.

[mr friendly guy]

Is it hypocritical to suggest that they could de-canonize the entire EU whilst cherry-picking the stuff they like for the new movies?

No. Why should it be?

On another note, it seems that what is decanonised or officially canonised is still up for grabs. The article is clearly pushing what the author wants to be decanonised.

I wonder if they will just write the story for the new movies and any EU "facts" that are contraindicated will be scrapped. As opposed to in the beginning deciding novels x,y,z are no longer canon. Personally the latter would make it easier for fans who are into that kind of thing.

As of now, for all I know Wankatine and the Yuzhan Vong would still be canon.

[Ralin]

I'm pretty sure you are just trolling me at this point.

It had a Death Star that looked like a giant lightsaber! How can you not appreciate how awesome that is?

WORDS MOTHERFUCKER! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THEM?
Lucas specifically state that there were two distinct continuities, his own and the EU's. His consisted of the movies and I'm assuming the TV movies and anything else he had a direct hand in. The EU was it's own that contained the movies and anything else. This means that if the EU decided that Palpatine comes back in a year after ROTJ then fine. What you are failing to understand the difference between is Lucas and Lucas Licensing. If Lucas did something in the movies, then Lucas Licensing and all the other companies made sure everything fell in line with that, not because of some grand command from Lucas, but because every Star Wars fan in existence, except you apparently, wants to take the creators word as to what happened over some second rate hack writer like Kevin J. Anderson or Karren Travis. Holding to the idea that Lucas has to read and know every piece of EU so that his movies don't step on Kevin J Anderson's toes or ruffle Dark Horse's feathers if fucking asinine.

That’s exactly what I just said. Ignoring the continuity that other, much better authors built up is disrespectful both to them and the fans who took the time to read about it. Yes, when you let other people into your setting you should take their work into account before you write anything else regardless of what the law says you actually can do.

And my gawd, if he had laid down the rule that no Force users could be born after the movies, which is actually retarded in universe, and he fucking didn't, would have been ironically GENIUS and maybe we would have gotten some far better EU material.

I heard a quote of him saying so, but I haven’t heard it again since so I’m assuming it was some off-hand remark. Lucas is a bad writer and has a tendency to do things like that.

Hey, I bet somewhere out there is a big fan of The Crystal Star.

I didn’t hate it. I thought it was pretty forgettable other than the Waru bits. Really I think the only pre-NJO EU I didn’t like was the Black Fleet books, though I was never up on the comics and video games.

[Metahive]

As for Lucas ignoring the works of the EU authors...first, it's his universe, he can do whatever the hell he wants.

If he was really so concerned for the purity of his artistic vision he shouldn't ever have officially licensed other people's fan fiction for money and give it canonical standing. So no, it hasn't been solely "his" universe in a long time. If he wanted it to be all his he should have done like the ST guys and declared everything but the movies and maybe the latest animated series non-canon, but no, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

[Ralin]

As for Lucas ignoring the works of the EU authors...first, it's his universe, he can do whatever the hell he wants.

If he was really so concerned for the purity of his artistic vision he shouldn't ever have officially licensed other people's fan fiction for money and give it canonical standing. So no, it hasn't been solely "his" universe in a long time. If he wanted it to be all his he should have done like the ST guys and declared everything but the movies and maybe the latest animated series non-canon, but no, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

Yes, exactly. Lucas can do whatever the hell he wants legally. I grew up reading and loving this stuff and I'm more than free to call him an asshole for ignoring the stuff his company licensed and sold.

[RogueIce]

If he wanted it to be all his he should have done like the ST guys and declared everything but the movies and maybe the latest animated series non-canon, but no, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

But that basically was the attitude Lucas himself took according to pretty much all of his quotes on the matter. That's where all those Canon Debate arguments came from in the first place: did George Lucas or Lucasfilm Licensing get to define "canon" for Star Wars? Also interpreting what George Lucas "meant" with his statements, but if he was clear on an All-Inclusive POV from the start (or just stayed silent on the matter), those arguments would never have gone anywhere.

Why exactly the licensing arm went with the all-inclusive policy they had, who knows. Probably money. And I guess Lucas himself never cared enough to step in and force an actual policy change, although his public statements did seem to be contrary. But as far as George Lucas himself was concerned, he had the whole 'parallel worlds' 'foggy windows' and everything else, making clear that for him at least he never was and never would be constrained by what the EU did.

[Batman]

Yes, but you actually seem to think KJA's stuff was actually awesome when the sane part of humanity knows it was so bad it hurt so excuse us for not giving your opinion a lot of weight.
And yes, it HAS been his universe from the word go. If and to which extent he allows the contributions of the people he allowed to play in his sandbox affect where he takes the franchise is completely up to him, because guess what? It's his sandbox.
And frankly ignoring the EU is one of the smartest things Lucas did because the vast majority of it sucks.