David Brin's thoughts on AotC

[Peregrin Toker]

Main characters are constantly harping about how Vulcans are evil because they are Vulcan, or how they don't trust Vulcans. They also talk about how inter-species relations are necessarily bad, and they do a lot to make Klingons and Vulcans seem stupider and humans seem smarter and more reasonable. One character even went so far as to say that T'Pol was not attractive BECAUSE she was Vulcan, etc.

Actually, the Vulcans were relatively lucky. A 100 years later, they're actually treated quite well. Compare with the Klingons - around 2290, they acheived peace with the Federation, but over 50 years later, B'Elanna Torres was treated like dirt as a child because she was half Klingon.

(example: B'Elannas childhood flashbacks in a late Voyager episode - I think it was Lineage)

Back to the original subject:

Can't you remember all the incidents in TOS where Spock derisively made racist comments about humans??

I find it quite weird that this often goes without mention.

I know that Spock was able to make friends with humans, but must have seen himself as being morally exalted over the rest because he was half Vulcan. Of course, still in the 24th century, humans still see Klingons exactly the same way Vulcans saw humans 100 years ago, and most half-Klingons even seem to agree on this. (for example, K'Ehleyr referred to the Klingon concept of honour as "a lot of stupid ideas" if I recall correctly. Same goes for B'Elanna... UNTIL her weird experiences in Honour Day and especially Barge of the Dead)

[hvb]

This thread has been stale for a month, but I just wanted to add that most of it reads like a series of people agreeing on ad hominem attacks on Brin.

Now I like some of what he has written, but none of the non-fiction I have ever seen from him (he isn't only an ass when criticising SW, although he does seem to have a problem with that particular univers: There now I have done it too ).

The question is if the article, not Brin, contains something of value.

The proposed Vader-Kenobi alliance seems to create fewer plot holes then it answers, so I guess I would buy it to a large extend (unto GL renderes it irrelevant with canon evidence).
Who knows maybe it would still be a usable alternative interpretation after the last film is out?
(this would require Brin to get very lucky on how GL directs and cuts the critical scenes around the twins though, I'm far from sure this is remotely what GL intends to describe)

[Vympel]

Seeing as how his original article demonstrates what an utter moron he is, and how he cannot comprehend what children can, Brin has nothing useful to offer. His Vader/Kenobi alliance is a stupid idea.

Here's why:

"The biggest irony is this -- I could scribble a 3 paragraph outline that would save Lucas. It would explain every awful inconsistency/paradox in his universe. It would make the #!#*& coincidences all work out... including the totally predictable lunacy of having Obi-Wan grab baby Luke and hide him from his darkside father... on Darth Vader's home planet, in his old home town! This is the core scenario that we know will happen in "Episode Three" and it is the most towering of three dozen real plot horrors. But the amazing thing is that I see a simple way for Lucas to climb out of this hell.

In fact, a scenario is possible, if Vader and Obi-Wan conspire together against BOTH Emperor and Yoda. Go on, follow all the movies with this possibility in mind.

Why else would Obi-Wan 'hide' Vader's son in Vader's home town? Their final 'deathfight' distracts the guards to let Luke/Han/Leia get away. How else do you explain that Vader grabs/interrogates Leia, yet never detects her force? Watch carefully... Vader's 'chase' of Luke in the first film clears all the other Imperial fighters off his son's back and halts the antiaircraft guns, giving the kid a clear shot! And guess who's the only Imperial survivor?

It goes on and on! (Including the coincidence of whose droids carry the message.)

I once spent an hour scribbling notes -- the plot for Episode Three writes itself! (At least, I see it clearly with a professional's eye.) Almost the entire list of awful coincidences and silly paradoxes can be eliminated in a certain clever way that would make George Lucas's entire universe make incredible sense! It could even go down in history as something profoundly moral and clever.

Oh, it's delicious! There's a way out... and GL could claim "I was planning this all along!"

Holding my breath. (Not)
DB

1: Will Anakin know he has children? "To protect you from the Emperor you were hidden from your father when you were born". If he doesn't know, then he won't be looking.


2: "Their final 'deathfight' distracts the guards to let Luke/Han/Leia get away" What is he on about? Han? What has he got to do with anything? This is a stupid idea. Vader DOESN'T know. He only knows about Luke in Episode V: "We have a new enemy, Luke Skywalker".

3: Detect Leia's force? Wah? Does Leia having some latent force ability automatically translate into him saying: "hey, this must be my daughter!"

4: "Watch carefully... Vader's 'chase' of Luke in the first film clears all the other Imperial fighters off his son's back and halts the antiaircraft guns, giving the kid a clear shot! And guess who's the only Imperial survivor?"

Obviously this man is a fucking idiot

a- The guns stopped firing because Vader was entering the trench, dumbass.
b- The other fighters were engaged with the 30+ Rebel ships involved in the attack, DUMBASS.
c- Give the kid a clear shot: Then how do you explain "I have you now", DUMBASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
d- Only Imperial survivor: OHHHHH, I *SEE*, it writes itself does it!? I guess Vader ordered his wingman to collide with him, hurtling him away from the fight just before he was about to blow Luke away? DUMBASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

[Crazy_Vasey]

He's only jealous because every book he's ever written combined probably hasn't sold as much as one EU novel.

[Master of Ossus]

3: Detect Leia's force? Wah? Does Leia having some latent force ability automatically translate into him saying: "hey, this must be my daughter!"

Of course she does. As the daughter of a powerful Jedi Knight, she has an inherent power to rule over everything. I see you paid little attention to his arguments about how Jedi are the monarchs of the Galaxy, ruling over the peaceful denizens of their universe with an iron fist and allowing little or no input from non-Force users to register upon their collective consciences.

His idea for Episode III reminds me of one of my cousin's children, who has just seen TPM, AotC, and ANH. He repeatedly argued with me that Obi-Wan Kenobi (from TPM and AotC) was actually Luke Skywalker in disguise, as he was quite incapable of recognizing the whole of the timeline, having seen only three of the movies out of order.