The New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-10-04 01:15am

The Viscount is not a Home One-type vessel.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-04 01:17am

Ahh, the events of the NJO are so far removed from the movie time period that their reliability is highly suspect anyway, and let's face it; the whole idea doesn't really sound like Star Wars anyway. It's more like something lifted from ST and B5.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-10-04 01:17am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Viscount is not a Home One-type vessel.

I never said it was.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-10-04 01:19am

Darth Wong wrote:Ahh, the events of the NJO are so far removed from the movie time period that their reliability is highly suspect anyway, and let's face it; the whole idea doesn't really sound like Star Wars anyway. It's more like something lifted from ST and B5.

So? Its not contridicted explicitly by something of higher canon, so its part of the Star Wars continuity.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-04 01:40am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Ahh, the events of the NJO are so far removed from the movie time period that their reliability is highly suspect anyway, and let's face it; the whole idea doesn't really sound like Star Wars anyway. It's more like something lifted from ST and B5.
So? Its not contridicted explicitly by something of higher canon, so its part of the Star Wars continuity.

It doesn't make any fucking sense. In real life, if we read books describing events which make no sense at all and we have no direct observations to back them up, we usually conclude that the authors were fucked up, on an agenda, etc.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-10-04 01:50am

Darth Wong wrote:It doesn't make any fucking sense. In real life, if we read books describing events which make no sense at all and we have no direct observations to back them up, we usually conclude that the authors were fucked up, on an agenda, etc.

You mean from a scientific perspective? I just assume that the accounts of how the technology works itself or descriptions thereof are skewed or in error.

EDIT: And your direct observation vs. historical accounts is an analogy of SW canon policy, but it is not canon policy. Rostini is quite explicit: it is valid if it is not Tales or Infinities and does not undermine the meaning and intent of the films. I remind you that Lucas himself is consulted on the main plot points of the NJO, and it was he that directed Del Rey to the Vong vs. Sith on the NJO, IIRC.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-10-04 02:12am

Darth Wong wrote:Ahh, the events of the NJO are so far removed from the movie time period that their reliability is highly suspect anyway, and let's face it; the whole idea doesn't really sound like Star Wars anyway. It's more like something lifted from ST and B5.

Actually, the idea is lifted from Warhammer 40K.

Here's a comparison:

NJO: A war-torn galaxy gets attacked by the Yuuzhan Vong, a nigh-on-unstoppable race of angry heavy metal rockers who come from another galaxy united by a brutal overlord and motivated by religious fanaticism. These invaders shun mechanical technology in favour of biotechnology (for little apparent reason). A great deal of significant planets, sectors and star systems are lost as they are laid to waste as the Yuuzhan Vong destroy all signs of civilization and remake the planets in their own image. Many of the Yuuzhan Vong's cronies disguise themselves as ordinary Luddite organizations and anti-technological religion cults - with devastating effects for the New Republic/Galactic Alliance.

WH40K: A war-torn galaxy gets attacked by the Tyranids, a nigh-on-unstoppable group of various types of reptile-like monsters from another galaxy who are united by a hive mind and motivated by sheer hunger. These invaders shun mechanical technology in favour of biotechnology. Many locations strategically important to the Imperium are lost or otherwise endangered because Tyranids strip planets bare of all their resources and leave behind barren wastelands. Many Tyranid-worshippers disguise themselves as ordinary religious fundamentalists - with devastating results for the Imperium of Mankind.

Sounds familiar?

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-10-04 02:16am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:Sounds familiar?

Read my comments on the pictures of the YV ships from the NEGVV and you'll realize that I am a kindred spirit.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-10-04 03:51pm

Any YV ships over 2 km?

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-10-04 03:56pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Any YV ships over 2 km?

The Legacy of Torment is said to be the size of a SSD.

The Worldship is 10k in diameter.

No figures are given for any of the others. (Golly, why would we put figures ina Guide to Vehicles and Vessels?

)

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-10-04 07:27pm

According to a certain NJO book (title?) the worldship Kyp Durron tricked Jania and gang into destroying (he said it was a superweapon) was about the size of the DS1.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-10-04 08:24pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:I bought the origional Essential Guide back in '96, and it had an interesting problem. The picture and diagrams for the VSD and ISDs were mismatched. Later books that I have seen on the shelf at book stores have this problem corrected. Does anybody else have something like this, or is my book a rarity?

Yeah, my copy has that problem.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-10-04 09:58pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:I bought the origional Essential Guide back in '96, and it had an interesting problem. The picture and diagrams for the VSD and ISDs were mismatched. Later books that I have seen on the shelf at book stores have this problem corrected. Does anybody else have something like this, or is my book a rarity?

Same here as well.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-10-04 10:20pm

And what capital ships 1km+ for the NR/IR/other are there?

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-10-04 10:25pm

Defender class Star Destroyer, 1.2 km NR

Endurance class Fleet Carrier, 1.2km NR

Star Destroyer 'Guardian' Identified as a 'Super Star Destroyer', length unknown, NR, from Destiny's Way

The Hapan carriers first shown at the end of Dark Journey are almost certainly greater than 1 km, precise length unknown

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-10-04 10:41pm

consequences wrote:Defender class Star Destroyer, 1.2 km NR

Endurance class Fleet Carrier, 1.2km NR

Star Destroyer 'Guardian' Identified as a 'Super Star Destroyer', length unknown, NR, from Destiny's Way

The Hapan carriers first shown at the end of Dark Journey are almost certainly greater than 1 km, precise length unknown

So, that book didn't have Nemesis class SDs, did it? (don't remember which book they were from, only website I can find on it is: http://njoproject.skywalkeronline.net/n ... esis.shtml)

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-10-04 10:58pm

YT300000 wrote: So, that book didn't have Nemesis class SDs, did it? (don't remember which book they were from, only website I can find on it is: http://njoproject.skywalkeronline.net/n ... esis.shtml)

That's a fan-made ship.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-10-04 11:08pm

Kuja wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Any YV ships over 2 km?
The Legacy of Torment is said to be the size of a SSD.

It was also a pathetically weak starship, considering its size. A corvette-sized starship was able to do substantial damage to it in its opening salvoes, and an extremely small group of ships was able to destroy it.

The Worldship is 10k in diameter.

Worldships must be larger to fulfill their design specifications. They carry tens of thousands of individuals, and support them over a period of what seems to be centuries. No starship a mere 10km in diameter could hope to accomplish all this, particularly since the YV seem to have been relatively inefficient with the volume of their ships. Moreover, the "superweapon" that Jaina and Kyp Duron destroyed was actually a worldship, and merely its "seed" was the size of the DSI. It was explicitly stated that the ship would grow as it reached maturity, indicating a more realistic and far greater size for the worldships. I assume that this figure comes from the NEGVV, which I have not yet purchased, but if it does then it is wildly inaccurate.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-10-04 11:12pm

Master of Ossus wrote: I assume that this figure comes from the NEGVV, which I have not yet purchased, but if it does then it is wildly inaccurate.

Ding, ding, ding.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2003-10-05 08:40am

The structure Jaina and Kyp destroyed was a shipwomb, not a worldship. However somewhere its mentioned, that a new worldship was being grown there to replace the dying vessels of the YV, that were not hyperspace-capable and that carried most of the civilian population.

Kyp´s intention was to force the YV to either sacrifice huge parts of their population or to use vessels needed by them for the war to rescue their civilians. Shimmra decided to sacrifice his own people.

As for the vessels over 1km:

Defender-Class-SD (actually Nebula-Class-SD): 1,040 meter

Endurance-Class-Carrier: 1,040 meter (based on the same hull as Nebula)

Republic-Class-Cruiser (not to confuse with the Republic-Class-SD): 1,000 meter

KDY-warship of unknown class mentioned in "Star by Star": 1,000 meter, possibly Republic-Class (although that name first appeard in DW)

Mediator-Class-Battlecruiser: lenght unknown

Viscount/Strident-Class-Stardefender: described as being twice as large as the biggest MC-ship built till then (what would be Home One and give us a lenght of nearly eight kilometers, however "official" sources describe the Home One as being 1,200 meters long, what would give us a maximum of 2,400 meters. NEGVV says the Stardefender is powerful enough to challange an ISD. I already hate that book).

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-10-05 11:05am

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Any YV ships over 2 km?

A few, but not man. Most of their ships are smaller, in the 400-600 meter range.

And the pic of the Legacy of Torment doesn't match with other ship descriptions.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-10-05 11:10am

FTeik wrote:The structure Jaina and Kyp destroyed was a shipwomb, not a worldship.

Negatiive, that interpratation was a fuckup by others, Nem Yim specifically says they targeted and destroyed a worldship. the shipwomb is the remnants of the planet, not a structure itself.

As for the vessels over 1km:

Defender-Class-SD (actually Nebula-Class-SD): 1,040 meter

Endurance-Class-Carrier: 1,040 meter (based on the same hull as Nebula)

Republic-Class-Cruiser (not to confuse with the Republic-Class-SD): 1,000 meter

Source for the size? Because the weapons loadout for the Republic SD is large enough that making it a cruiser would be correct.

KDY-warship of unknown class mentioned in "Star by Star": 1,000 meter, possibly Republic-Class (although that name first appeard in DW)

Name really first appeared back in the black Fleet Crisis

Mediator-Class-Battlecruiser: lenght unknown

If cruisers can be in the range of 3km and battleships as small as 6 km, I'd say 4km would be a safe guess for now.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-10-05 11:12am

Darth Wong wrote:Keep in mind that Acclamators were used as multi-role craft at Geonosis, and carry sufficient firepower to devastate a planetary surface, so they're not exactly what you'd call an analogue to a modern troop transport.

It's possible that they get thumped in some battle somewhere so they decided to switch to multi-role craft with a greater emphasis on firepower rather than cargo capacity.

That's why they're an assault ship. Doesn't the USMC have amphibious VTOL carriers, that can perform a multitude of tasks? For example, it mount helicopters and marines for inserting troops ashore, it carries Harriers which can go on CAS, SEAD and aerial combat, it has rockets and guns to offer protection against enemy fire, etc etc etc. It can even take out enemy FAC by using her Harriers.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-10-05 11:13am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Kuja wrote:
The Worldship is 10k in diameter.
Worldships must be larger to fulfill their design specifications. They carry tens of thousands of individuals, and support them over a period of what seems to be centuries. No starship a mere 10km in diameter could hope to accomplish all this, particularly since the YV seem to have been relatively inefficient with the volume of their ships. Moreover, the "superweapon" that Jaina and Kyp Duron destroyed was actually a worldship, and merely its "seed" was the size of the DSI. It was explicitly stated that the ship would grow as it reached maturity, indicating a more realistic and far greater size for the worldships. I assume that this figure comes from the NEGVV, which I have not yet purchased, but if it does then it is wildly inaccurate.

The Worldships in Vector Prime are 10 Km.

I'd say there are two types of worldships based on the evidence: Population movers (the huge fuckers) and bases (the 10 km ones). We see worldships specifically used as bases in Vector Prime, Jedi Eclipse, and Rebel Lines. It's possible that these were the ships being referred to with the 1000 ships quote in Hero's Trial

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-10-05 11:20am

consequences wrote:Defender class Star Destroyer, 1.2 km NR

Endurance class Fleet Carrier, 1.2km NR

Star Destroyer 'Guardian' Identified as a 'Super Star Destroyer', length unknown, NR, from Destiny's Way

Guardian was a captured Executor

The Hapan carriers first shown at the end of Dark Journey are almost certainly greater than 1 km, precise length unknown

Basis? I haven't read the book in a long time.

And I'd like to point out that the Viscount abd Strident dont have to be the same ship, modern navies use ships of different classes but same types all the time. Also, the fact that it is described as Mon Calmari doesn't inherently mean its lumpy, they could just be the shipyard builders