Attn: Technical Comm. Update; Executor hull bumps

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-03-08 04:36am

The size of the Executor compared to an ISD is by the q'n'd method 11^3, or 1331 times bigger. 948(950?) HTL batteries is a fitting number.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-03-08 04:47am

Emm, the ISDs also have assymetric raised squares (on their ventral side), don't they? But I doubt they were ever labelled as weapon emplacements.
We saw fire coming from a raised thing on an ISD, however, as I can remember, only from a symmetrical one.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-03-08 04:54am

There's a CGI Executor that was shown on .... A&P as a link, it had such uniform bumpage. It was very good. Anyone remember it>?

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-03-08 05:22am

It may not be necessary to fiddle with suspension of disbelief. They have models of starships in-universe. Like Luke's T-16 that was shot but never made it to the movie. This is a model of the Executor, not the actual in-universe starship. I don't see a problem here.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-03-08 12:20pm

Howedar wrote:Your eyes must be a lot better than mine Gil, in the movie shots I can't even tell the features are square.

This is possible, I do have great eyesight.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-03-08 12:43pm

Well, after studying the pictures, i think there may be an answer . I may be repeating what someone else said, so this is just my two cents.

A long time ago, when costal batteries were still viable, they had something called a 'disappearing turret'. Basically, the huge cannon was raised up, and when fired it's recoil thre it back on a rail into a thickly armoured bunker of sorts, to avoid being hit by fighter runs or enemy cannon fire.

When i first saw the things, that was the first thought in my mind. Basically, inside each could be a single turbolaser cannon of considerable size (maybe a little bigger than normal HTLs), and they can rise up, fire, and rcoil hurls them back on a rail or something into the thick armoured perch where they are immune to strafing runs and such. Anyway, if we assume they're normal HTLs, there is no reason to make the number symetrical. They can let out 200GT bolts of plasma, either side will obliterate enemy ships reguardless of where they are.

Again, this is just a thought, take it for what you will.

Comosicus · Post by **Comosicus** » 2004-03-08 03:01pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Gil Hamilton wrote:Of course the 17.6km Executor does. Complete with appropriately scaled up raised squares, which the model shows.
Can you tell that they're just raised squares in the only known movie shot?

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/by/bumps1.jpg

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/by/bumps2.jpg
I note that in those shots the bumps on the port side seem to be missing entirely.

The bumps appear because they cast shadows. On the darkened side they are not so obvious.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-08 03:38pm

Rogue 9 wrote:I note that in those shots the bumps on the port side seem to be missing entirely.

The port side is in shadow; the bumps are so nondescript that they don't show up in the lack of contrast of the dark port wing.

As for the Executor at the Vergesso Asteroid Belt, my point was that the assertion that the Executor operating independently there was false.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2004-03-08 06:26pm

A long time ago, when costal batteries were still viable, they had something called a 'disappearing turret'. Basically, the huge cannon was raised up, and when fired it's recoil thre it back on a rail into a thickly armoured bunker of sorts, to avoid being hit by fighter runs or enemy cannon fire.

When i first saw the things, that was the first thought in my mind. Basically, inside each could be a single turbolaser cannon of considerable size (maybe a little bigger than normal HTLs), and they can rise up, fire, and rcoil hurls them back on a rail or something into the thick armoured perch where they are immune to strafing runs and such. Anyway, if we assume they're normal HTLs, there is no reason to make the number symetrical. They can let out 200GT bolts of plasma, either side will obliterate enemy ships reguardless of where they are.

18:

You've got a nice idea there.... unfortunately, I don't think it's workable. For one thing, such an arrangement would pretty much only be able to fire on a limited range of vectors for the recoil to still push it backwards in a straight line towards the "bunker". In fact, it could only fire on one vector if you were trying to minimize stress upon the rails!

The asymmetrical distribution of the bumps makes this not the best idea, because, even if you had enough to cover all approaches, there would still be openings where less fire would be available for defense. I believe this was pointed out to me earlier in this thread...

Nice idea, but I'm afraid you don't score a cigar. Sorry!

Phantasee · Post by **Phantasee** » 2004-03-09 01:29am

MMMMmmmmm..bumps.....

I was thinking, due to the size of the thing, couldn't they be HTLs, but not be in perfect symmetry? I mean, it's kinda hard to line something up like that over how many meters/kilometers? (sorry, I just don't know the actual size of the Executor...never did have a head for figures)...So theoretically, they could be weapons emplacements, and they have no need for accuracy in terms of emplacement. Mayb;e they just made sure every vector was covered, and stuck 'em on like that? But odds are, this probably is the movement model, and if we could get some stills of the still model, we'd see better details...of course, my opinion doesn't count.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-03-09 03:47am

I think every opinion counts. At least any of them can contain bits which provide inspiration for others.

However. Weapon distribution is designed. Since the Executor is symmetrical, the best pattern for one side would be the best for the other as well (as long as there are no other problems). I think assymetrical weapon distribution makes the commanding and coordination harder. It is only good if starboard side was designed to face very different enemies than the port. So, I think we should count only the symmetrical ones as weapon emplacements, and the others only as features also found on ISDs with unknown purpose.

Phantasee · Post by **Phantasee** » 2004-03-09 12:18pm

I bet those bumps are nothing more than windows...possibly observation lounges? I mean, the Executor was Vader's flagship, and i think maybe even the Imperial Navy's flagship, so some important people might have asked for big-ass observation lounges, so they could view engagements with the Rebels in relative safety (as in, being on the Executor was safer than any regular ISD)...

They could also be little hangars, like the ones in the outer ring on DS9, with small support craft?

Bu for all we know, given the graininess of the pictures, they could just be TIEs flying over the surface.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-03-09 12:33pm

this image here clearly shows what the windows are. see those little glowy white points? they're definitely not the bumps you're referring to.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-09 05:13pm

Phantasee wrote:I bet those bumps are nothing more than windows...possibly observation lounges? I mean, the Executor was Vader's flagship, and i think maybe even the Imperial Navy's flagship, so some important people might have asked for big-ass observation lounges, so they could view engagements with the Rebels in relative safety (as in, being on the Executor was safer than any regular ISD)...

No offense, but that's idiotic. There'd be room for tens of thousands of people to look out the windows there. This is a warship, not a cruise liner.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-03-09 05:16pm

That is simply one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

Observation lounges. Jesus Christ...

Comosicus · Post by **Comosicus** » 2004-03-09 06:52pm

That's some kind of shitty idea, but I made an analogy between the bumps on Executor and the striated skin of sharks, for example

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-03-09 10:56pm

Heres a thought:

Could they actually be just bumps? Back in the olden days of ship-to-ship combat they had these things called 'torpedo blisters'. If i recall, it protected against torpedo impacts. That could be it. Maybe they're just empty bulges used to lessen the impact of missiles.

Alt idea: wasnt there some kind of thing called a clster bomb in the Guide to Star Wars Vehicles or whatever. If memory serves they were large bombs, filled with small bomblets, that were used to take out fighters/torps.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-03-09 11:34pm

SW shields and armour are strong enough that such methods probably wouldn't be needed. They're roughly the same scale as the ISD's HTLs, so I am still inclined to believe that is indeed what they are.

And the cluster bombs were used mostly on Mon Calamari ships during the Galactic Civil War because they blended perfectly with the hull. I see no reason why the Empire would resort to such terrorist tactics.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-09 11:42pm

No, they said angular ones disguised as antennae were on more angular vessels.

How is that "terrorist tactics"?

Your grandstanding never has, and never will impress anyone, Spanky.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-03-09 11:45pm

"Grandstanding"? Fuck off. I forgot that, and falsly assumed they were last minute improvisations.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-10 12:00am

Notice how you retort in the oh-so-constructive manner of telling me to fuck off without in anyway responding to the claim.

Listen. In the last week, you me-too-ed my criticisms of McC without substanciating an actual rebuttal, or in my case, having a history of debating him. You, on a nigh-daily basis, hop on your cute little soapbox and make uppity little on-high shit-drops on any newb or person who says something stupid, with a not-so-subtle pattern of generally having me and/or other posters doing the actual job of rebutting to go with our name-calling. Same goes for this thread and probably a couple others on the board's first page.

Basically, I'm tired of your poseur attitude and me-tooing. Its been constant and unchanging since I was a newb, and experienced it directly myself. Basically its fucking annoying, and if you don't have any real rebuttals, shut the fuck up. And even if being an asshole is in context, try to do with an attitude which is not quite as fucking aggrivating for those who aren't even in disagreement with you.

The try-hard peanut gallery commentary and irritatingly condescending attitude need to go.

EDIT: And don't bother with the claims of wannabe-mod behavior; I'm not speaking as an aspiring or wannabe mod, the mini-mod of the Ubiqtorate, or anything other than a poster on PSW and the board in general. This shit has annoyed me intensely for a long time, and I thought I'd air my more-or-less complete thoughts on the manner.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-03-10 12:11am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:EDIT: And don't bother with the claims of wannabe-mod behavior; I'm not speaking as an aspiring or wannabe mod, the mini-mod of the Ubiqtorate, or anything other than a poster on PSW and the board in general. This shit has annoyed me intensely for a long time, and I thought I'd air my more-or-less complete thoughts on the manner.

I wouldn't have accused you of such.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-03-10 12:13am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Heres a thought:

Could they actually be just bumps? Back in the olden days of ship-to-ship combat they had these things called 'torpedo blisters'. If i recall, it protected against torpedo impacts. That could be it. Maybe they're just empty bulges used to lessen the impact of missiles.

Yup, torpedo blisters work by providing a void space for the torpedo explosion to expand into away from the main hull. However such a defence would work very poorly unless it covered a large homogenous area of the hull. These don't. Anyway, I doubt they'd provide enough added standoff to have any value, adding more point defence mounts in their place work better.

Alt idea: wasnt there some kind of thing called a clster bomb in the Guide to Star Wars Vehicles or whatever. If memory serves they were large bombs, filled with small bomblets, that were used to take out fighters/torps.

Those have showed up on the novels as well, but there improvised weapons, which only work when they can take passing fighters by surprise. I doubt the Empire would cover its ships with them, not when it had plenty of star fighters to provide cover.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-03-10 12:31am

18-Till-I-Die wrote: Alt idea: wasnt there some kind of thing called a clster bomb in the Guide to Star Wars Vehicles or whatever. If memory serves they were large bombs, filled with small bomblets, that were used to take out fighters/torps.

IP has already dealt with the first possibility to my satisfaction.

Regarding this, you want the cluster bomb to be very inconspicuous so that enemy pilots might maneuver too close to it. Large bumps that serve no other purpose on the ship are probably not the best way to disguise such weapons. Some of them COULD be cluster bombs, but unless other bumps had actual functionality, there would be no reason for enemy pilots to fly close to cluster bombs that a deaf bat could detect easily. The utility of cluster bombs varies directly with their ability to remain inconspicuous on a ship's hull, so unless there was a chance that pilots would mistake the cluster bomb for another more usual structure on the hull, building such devices on the Executor in such a manner would make little to no sense.

Phantasee · Post by **Phantasee** » 2004-03-10 01:06pm

Um, yeah, I didn't mean actual windows, in the normal sense...I meant bubble windows, so tey could have a greater angle to view from...but I still prefer my second idea, where they are simply small hangars for repair or support craft. Like the outer ring parking stalls on DS9. And there's no need to get abusive, please.

Also, the possibility exists that the bumps are just on the ships to make it look a litle less smooth...It wouldn't look believable unless there were variations in the otherwise smooth structure.