Imperial shiplist for the Star Wars game...

[Raxmei]

You object to the Interdictor cruiser being smaller than the Star Destroyers. It isn't really a problem. Our ship naming conventions are just weird. On Earth, Destroyer is short for Torpedo Boat Destroyer. Our destroyers are meant for getting rid of nuisances. Clearly the Star Wars galaxy named their destroyers for a different reason. It looks like the Emperor wanted to emphasize how powerful his new heavy cruisers were, so he named them destroyers. Destroyer as in something that destroys.

[Sea Skimmer]

You still can't make a judgment of its range based on these words from the ICS:

"Main reactor is hidden within hull terraces, unlike the bulbous ventral protrusions of more powerful ships of Kuat's sectorial fleet, such as the Mandator-class Star Dreadnaught and Procurator-class Star Battlecruiser."

The only direct conclusions we can draw from this is that they are more powerful than Acclamators, they belong to Kuat's sectorial fleet and have bulbous ventral hull protrusions. We can infer from the names that they are larger and more powerful than Star Destoyers, because Star Wars ships appear to use nomenclature similar to modern warships. Also being part of Kuat's sectorial fleet and sharing Kuat's naming tradition we can infer that they are made by Kuat and probably conform to the dagger like hull design. But trying to infer that they have poor range merely because they are part of a sectorial fleet is to much, ISDs and ECSs are both in sector fleets but they have adequate hyperdrive capabilities.

Emphasis onSector fleetS. The ISD's where built to patrol a galaxy spanning empire in a time of conflict. The Mandator and Procurator where built to patrol one sector in peace. A long range hyperdrive is useless for there mission, and whats basically a giant corperation would not waste money on them. Espically since the space could be used to pack more firepower into a given hull which would be of value.

And you forgot one important quote form the same page

"In the peaceful centuries preceding the Clone Wars, many larger and more powerful warships were built to defend rich industrialized sector of Corellia, Humbarine, and Kuat, but their hyperdrive jump range were local. The return of truly trans-galactic warships and armies is an ominous innovation."

[Connor MacLeod]

Obviously they might have to have *some* range in the light-years - travel from system to system would require this. IF they "patrol" they might easily visit several systems in a single circuit, so we can be talking quite a bit of distnaces. (Depends on the size of the system - a few dozen like in naboo IIRC, to hundreds or thousands for larger Sectors.)

One might also point out that fighters appear to be typically limited to 1000 Light years or less flight range by hyperdrive - I assume capital ships would have at least a similar range.

Sector analysis related specifically to Kuat and its size and number of systems would make sense.

[Vympel]

IIRC you were going to have the game start on a smaller craft and move upwards to command larger craft, or not, depending on how you play through the campaign.
The dagger-type warships I have no opinion on; you need the ISD, ISD2, and Executor, the Immobilizer is a good fit for a needed role, and the other ships mentioned are good additions to vary the fleet. I like the idea of adding the comm ship; I have yet to address the necessity of dealing with comms in my rants but I believe there was some discussion of it already that I mostly agreed with.
You need some smaller support craft for escort duty, etc. The Interdictor-like warship is probably a good one, You'd have to do some thinking on whether you want the Neb-B. There is some animosity on these boards towards its treatment in the EU. I always liked the Carrack, it's a good little ship. Before anyone brings it up, don't use the Republic Dreadnought. The Lancer is an option for anti-fighter support, but it isn't much of a ship. I wouldn't.
You should check out The X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project, they have some great models of some EU ships, and more on the way. I mention them because taking a look at those models is almost as good as doing increadibly thorough research, because their research is pretty thorough. One of their members did an [url=http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/]extensive page on X-Wing design, as well as a general overview on starfighters[url].
You may want at least one dedicated carrier; the Escort Carrier from the games isn't a bad ship.

Dude!!!!! Cool!!! Sweet!!!! Dude !!!!!

Mad ....

[Cpt_Frank]

Hmm....
it's actually still not clear wether the Procurator's range is limited by fuel or the slow drive itself. Btw it's not as if there couldn't be subclasses with faster drives and more fuel.

[Peregrin Toker]

I think that there probably are very few Mandators and Procurators back in service, and those who are have either been assigned to second-line service (like the Imperium's Vengeance-class and Avenger-class Grand Cruisers in the Warhammer 40K universe), undergone extensive refits, or both (like the Miranda-class Destroyers from Star Trek).

Secondly, as a sort of middle ground between destroyers and the large battleships, I advise to use the various unidentified cruisers depicted in Dark Empire, which are far bigger than ISDs but far smaller than SSDs. They could be given names such as Annihilator, Eliminator, Protector, Destructor, Disinfector, Subjugator, Predator, etc...

[Cpt_Frank]

I think that there probably are very few Mandators and Procurators back in service, and those who are have either been assigned to second-line service (like the Imperium's Vengeance-class and Avenger-class Grand Cruisers in the Warhammer 40K universe), undergone extensive refits, or both (like the Miranda-class Destroyers from Star Trek).

why? there's no reason, they're perfectly good warships and SW tech doesn't evolve nearly as fast as RL or ST tech anymore.

[Laughing Mechanicus]

Another point is the Procurators and Mandators that you would be able to command in the game would be in service of the Empire, not the Kuat sectorial fleet. As such even if the original models had limited hyperdrive range these would almost certainly have a hyperdrive added that would allow them to police the galaxy. As for them still being in service, I doubt that in a galaxy where technology has almost totally stopped advancing ships would be phased out after only 20 years, especially huge ships like these that are a significant investment in resources Think of how fast technology advanced in the previous century in the real world yet it almost unheard of a weapon system to be withdrawn after only 20 years of service (sometimes much longer e.g. the B-52's almost 50 years).

I don't think the Procurator or Mandator are canon (primary or secondary). If you're going to include those and exclude the others, you better have a damn good explanation why (otherwise remove them and stick with canon only, or include more of the EU).

I don't think you understand how much work each of these ships take to add too the game, it isn't like snapping your fingers. Aside from making the model and textures, we need to work out extremely precise specifications for each one, we have to place every single weapon by hand, we have to write an AI script for that ship class, the list goes on...
We would love to only include ships that are absolutely canon and seen in the films, but the problem is the films don't show a completely representative view of the galaxy. We need to add some EU ships to finish off the line up of vessels. But this doesnt mean we're going to crack open the essential guide to vehicles and vessels and start programming, we don't want to do that (some EU ships really suck) and it simply isn't possible to do it in a reasonable timeframe. The reason we have chosen the Mandator and Procurator is because they are a sensible design, they come from the very well respected source Dr. Curtis Saxton and they fill a rather glaring gap in the Imperial navy between destroyers and commandships.

Our ship naming conventions are just weird. On Earth, Destroyer is short for Torpedo Boat Destroyer. Our destroyers are meant for getting rid of nuisances. Clearly the Star Wars galaxy named their destroyers for a different reason.

I disagree, if you think about what we actually see Destroyers doing in the films they do hunt down nuisances (i.e. the Rebels, thats why we see them so much more than other classes of Imperial warships). In ANH we see one chasing down the blockade runner and the millenium falcon, in TESB they try to blockade Hoth and prevent any small Rebel transports from escaping and chase down the millenium falcon, and in ROTJ we see that they do actually participate in fleet engagements but in large numbers and again the smaller faster destroyers were used because their speed can be used to chase down the rebel ships then their power can be used to destroy them.

[Alan Bolte]

Dude!!!!! Cool!!! Sweet!!!! Dude !!!!!

Mad ....

Um, Vympel? May I ask what you meant by that?

Anyway, in terms of fighters, all you really need are the fighter, interceptor, and bomber. The Defender is increadibly rare, just don't bother. The Avenger is almost in the same boat, as is the X1. Include the X1 only if you want Vader to make a guest appearance in it. The Missle Boat - not a chance. ISDs are supposed to carry some gunboats and blastboats, depending on who you ask. I really don't see the need for them to always be carried, as if it were some sort of basic ship stat, but you get that sometimes with official sources. Anyway, you don't need them, but I like the gunboat, and the two of them make for good long-range craft when you don't need to send a whole damn destroyer after a minor target like a freighter. Speaking of which, that Great Heap frieghter is butt ugly, but I suppose you could include it failing another design for AT-AT transport. You also forgot some importand assault shuttles or something whose name escapes me at the moment. The shuttle and boarding craft are good for their intended purposes; you did make some hints that there would be personnel management to a slight extent, so you need shuttles. You may wish to add the TIE Scout, for some long-range recon (think Dantooine).

[Cpt_Frank]

I wouldn't include the gun/missile boat.
TIE fighter, interceptor, bomber, X Y and A wing suffice.
the TIE scout and TIE/fc firecontroller could add an interesting tactical aspect to the game, though.

[NecronLord]

Well, I happen to have a suggestion for a ship.

The Vengance class.

She is probably the easiest cruiser to do, as..

she has small mass, and presumably small size.

And she has a very smooth Dorsal surface.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/cg/df2/jerec7.gif

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/dagger.html#vengeance

[NecronLord]

I'm think how the might have fallen, one need at least 100 ships during ROTJ if you even wanted to last long enough to look at Kuat funny let alone do any damage

In "Hard Merchandise" Kaut of Kaut attepts to self destruct all the shipyards. prehaps he took out the defenses?

[hvb]

I would suggest adding the Interdictor, as the gravity well adds a added dimension to the game. The VSD is a good addition for a smaller ship, and the VSD has a longer history then the Interdictor, so you would lack a replacement for the Interdictor in missions set in the early stages of the Empire period, before the Interdictor is developed, so it should be included if the Interdictor is.

The idea of relatively few ships with several variants sounds good.
I would suggest an Interdictor variant be used for anti-starfighter operations, rather the to include the Lancer, as it is often listed with 20 quad lasers, so adding a few extra instead of the gravity wells would make it a formidable platform for that purpose, internal space from the wells could also be used for a larger fighter bay. (and the Lancer just looks wrong: not a wedge shape )

Fighter scale: the TIE or T/F (for the early period), T/in, T/I & T/B should do for most missions, especially if variants are added. The T/fc for instance adds a deeper level of integration between fighter-scale and capital-scale combattants, increasing the scope of the game.
In addition I would suggest two variants to fill needed mission roles: T/rc & T/gt (early period bomber).
The T/I seems to have 6 gun, 10 gun (& in one mission in one PC game a 4 gun + 2*2 missiles) variants.
One type of hyperdrive capable fighter would add a further dimention to the tactical options in the game, so I would suggest adding one, at most two, of these: Gunboat, Blastboat, T/A or T/D. In my order of preference.

[Cpt_Frank]

hmm the idea of bringing the original republican TIEs in for the early days is good although I have no idea how they look like, like ordinary TIE fighters I guess so there actually wouldn't have to be two different models in the game.

[Connor MacLeod]

I don't think you understand how much work each of these ships take to add too the game, it isn't like snapping your fingers. Aside from making the model and textures, we need to work out extremely precise specifications for each one, we have to place every single weapon by hand, we have to write an AI script for that ship class, the list goes on...

I'm not saying *every* single ship. Most known Imp only or Rebel-only ships wouldn't amount to too much.

We would love to only include ships that are absolutely canon and seen in the films, but the problem is the films don't show a completely representative view of the galaxy. We need to add some EU ships to finish off the line up of vessels. But this doesnt mean we're going to crack open the essential guide to vehicles and vessels and start programming, we don't want to do that (some EU ships really suck) and it simply isn't possible to do it in a reasonable timeframe. T

I never mentioned the EGV&V (or programming it as a whole - we're talking CAPITAL ships, particularily Imperial-Rebel war era, of which less than a dozen could be pulled from that book for Rebels and Imps combined.) I was thinking of something more like the ISB and RASB for the smaller vessels.

Or, if you didnt like that, use Saxton's "warships of the empire" catalogue: http://www.theforce.net/swtc/dagger.html

If you use the latter, you can add one more ship design to that (The Interdictor-cruiser hull was adapted Imperial-era to create a 600 meter long warship.. vindicator class I think. It was outlined in the WOTC supplement ships of hte galaxy)

he reason we have chosen the Mandator and Procurator is because they are a sensible design, they come from the very well respected source Dr. Curtis Saxton and they fill a rather glaring gap in the Imperial navy between destroyers and commandships.

Uh, the Mandator and Procurator were just introduced in the AOTC ICS. Insofar as we know no known official stats exist (unofficially, perhaps.) -
Any stats for them would be at worst unofficial, and at most made up.

Which brings up the question - why not make your own ships, if you don't like what the EU has? You'd have to be doing that basically anyhow if you intended to include ships we know nothing about (or almost nothing).

[Cpt_Frank]

You know why he included procurator and mandator?
Because they fill the gap between Executor, Giel and Allegiance/ISD
seriously later in the game you'd want a vessel significantly more powerful than an ASD/ISD, yet an Executor would still be several numbers to big so the Procurator and Mandator fit perfectly.
Additionally I guess Aaron likes the challenge of designing them.

[Peregrin Toker]

I think that there probably are very few Mandators and Procurators back in service, and those who are have either been assigned to second-line service (like the Imperium's Vengeance-class and Avenger-class Grand Cruisers in the Warhammer 40K universe), undergone extensive refits, or both (like the Miranda-class Destroyers from Star Trek).

why? there's no reason, they're perfectly good warships and SW tech doesn't evolve nearly as fast as RL or ST tech anymore.

I though that the Galactic Empire used mainly ships from the late Clone Wars and newer..... and the Mandators and Procurators are pre-clone wars...

[Connor MacLeod]

You know why he included procurator and mandator?
Because they fill the gap between Executor, Giel and Allegiance/ISD
seriously later in the game you'd want a vessel significantly more powerful than an ASD/ISD, yet an Executor would still be several numbers to big so the Procurator and Mandator fit perfectly.
Additionally I guess Aaron likes the challenge of designing them.

Other ship designs exist. Refer to Curtis' Warships of the Empire catalogue. As I mentioned, there is the CANON communications ship which is LARGER than a standard ISD but smaller than an Executor. There's the Shockwave class, smaller than 5 miles but longer than 1 mile.
There are the Alleigance class. There is the VEngeance class (10 km long IIRC but significantly more narrow and less massive than a true Executor-class.) There are warships form Dark Empire.

At the minimum, we KNOW dimensions of those ships (and can get a general idea of their size.) We know almost nothing about the Procurator and Mandator, INCLUDING size. It seems that with the emphasis he places on the accuracy of the game, he would be concerned about this problem as well.

[Master of Ossus]

The Interdictor simply NEEDS to be in the game. It presents a VERY interesting tactical/strategic situation. The VSD does not add much, tactically, to the game. It is slow and not very heavily armed. It's just obsolete compared with the newer model ISD's. I'm not sure the VSD should be included, but the Interdictor simply has to be.