Palpatine = Emperor? Lucas says we will be surprised

[Coyote]

I didn't know about the X-Wing vs. ISD part. That would be totally skewed. I only played the 1st-person shooters, and they seemed to stay within the realms of the established powers demonstrated on screen...

[Lord Pounder]

Some one mentioned how palpy was able to sit in the same room as 3 of the most powerful Jedi of the time.

I wish to point out a couple of wee factoids I read in Shadow Hunter.

1) Maul mentions he was blocking his force usage in certain places where he would be in danger of being detected by the Jedi

2) At the end of the book one of the hero's run off to a space platform hunting Maul. Maul turns the tables on him and goes after him. At that point our hero, i can't remember his name, bumps into Senator Palpatine and begs him for safety. Palpy takes him to safety. When our hero wakes up Maul is standing over him and uses his lightsaber to make him into shish-kabab.

[Kurgan]

I'd always assumed that force users had the ability to "mask" their "presence" (force signature, if you will) from other force users.

This skill might be more advanced, requiring somebody more powerful in the force than a simple padawan, I don't know, but perhaps it was an uncommon skill among Jedi, until it was needed (ie: when the Jedi Purges began). It is plausible that the Sith were the ones making heavy use of it prior to that of course (allowing Palpatine to hide from the Jedi right under their noses... I find it baffling that somebody as powerful as him just wouldn't be noticed with the most powerful Jedi masters standing near him most of the time).

In the case of palpatine, perhaps an alternate explanation is in order... perhaps, as Yoda speculated in AOTC, he is simply so powerful, he(Palpatine.. the "Sith Lord" whom the Jedi know about, but don't know is the same person in fact) can "overshadow" the Jedi and limit their prescient abilities, thus not allowing them to see himself, as if he were in shadow, rather than simply blending in by masking his presence.

Combinging that with the force masking ability...
That might help explain how Vader was able to detect Obi-Wan in ANH. "Escape is not his plan." Perhaps Obi-Wan was using his force masking ability until such time as he wanted to engage Vader in battle, in order to allow Luke and Leia to escape the Death Star (perhaps the line about "Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me" line is even more literally referring not just to Obi-Wan's hiding the Skywalker twins, but also his masking their weak force signature with his own power).

Perhaps even powerful Jedi like Obi-Wan and Yoda are just too hard to locate (or not worth it since the Empire is in control and the other Jedi are dead) in a vast galaxy, but you'd think somebody as powerful as Palpatine or Vader would at least know if they were alive and well, but according to the movies, they don't, unless they are physically close.

We don't know the total extent of the Jedi/Sith powers, but I think those are some reasonable possibilities to explain what we see in the films.


I know most people don't care about the games... but in Jedi Knight (and Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast) there is a force power that lets you become almost totally invisible (Force Persuasion) even from other Jedi in multiplayer (they can't see you, only can guess your position by the sounds and faint sparkle you give off, if that). However, also in multiplayer, a Jedi/Sith can detect a Persuasion (called "Jedi Mind Trick" in Jedi Outcast) by using the power "Force Seeing" that makes them become visible again (a nice countermeasure, with the side effect that it uses up some of your own Force Power to do so).

So, if canon events were similar, it might be that as long as the Jedi don't suspect Palpatine, he can simply hide from them easily. As soon as they recognize that he's a Sith Lord or somehow suspect, only then can they use the Force to "penetrate the shadow" he's under. Like a modern day virus scanner.. it can detect a problem, but sometimes only after its too late (ie: its shown itself).

It seems hinted at that Yoda is suspicious of Palpatine (in the scene where Palpy finishes Amidala's sentence for her in AOTC) but perhaps the Chancellor is simply too powerful to be seen, and Yoda isnt' getting through to read his mind or whatever. [/img]

[Slartibartfast]

So I think I know what you're trying to say, and that's not what I'm trying to argue with you about (how can I?) just some official quote from LucasFilm saying "the games aren't part of the official continuity" (ie: not even quasi-canon).

Yes, that's exactly what I mean, though I'm not exactly the expert in this BBS, I've heard it explained here hundreds of times, and on other websites.

If so (once we've ironed that out), does that mean the card games, role playing games, etc are also out of the continuity? I don't mean the actions of individual people playing the game, but the "mechanics" as you put it, the stuff that doesn't disagree with the "pure canon" that is.

I don't know about the mechanics (they're after all just games, you can't say "yes, it must be true that a blaster does 2d of damage", just what the hell does that mean?) but other stuff like descriptions, weapons not in movies or novels, new ship models and their components, etc, are "official". They *can* be overriden by newer books, etc, though. They definitely ARE overriden by movie footage (so the RPG game can't say that the Star Destroyer has a single turbolaser turret because it can be denied by the visuals and the models used in the movies)

Literally, from Lucasfilm canon policy, we have these:
Canon: first the movies, then the radio dramas and then the screenplays (or something like that)
Official: any approved books and stuff (except the computer games - note this is an implicit exception, it's stated literally)

[Durandal]

Maybe the Senator and later Chancellor Palpatine is actually the good person he appears to be and he's got an evil twin? Maybe he has a split-personality, or his Dark-side self decided to create another nicer "persona" so he wouldn't be suspected (like Schwarzenegger in Total Recall?)

I find that unlikely. All of Palpatine's actions as Chancellor and senator are consistent with Darth Sidious' motives and desires. Also, remember that Palpatine was busy serenading Anakin's ego in AotC, and he was the one who was pretty much responsible for having Anakin and Obi-Wan become Padme's guardians, thus putting Anakin in close proximity with Jedi forbidden fruit.

[Anarchist Bunny]

I think the difference in light saber colors being mostly the same in Prequel Trilogy and varied colors in the EU is cause it's under completely new instructers.

They don't take force sensitives away at birth.

They don't always use the padawan teaching methods(although I believe the first batches of graduates have been takin padawans, they Academy is still used to train all the way up to Knight.)

So why would they go under restrictive lightsaber coloring?

[Darth Yoshi]

But if palpatine has a split personality, and one of those splits happens to be a good, well meaning individual, that side wouldn't necessarily reek of the dark side, would it?

Yoda would have still sensed the fact that Palpatine was a Force-adept. He sure as hell wasn't Jedi, so if he wasn't Sith, then he'd be untrained Force-adept, who wouldn't know about his power or how to hide it.

[Kurgan]

Okay. All I'm asking for is some *proof* (a quote from Lucas say, or a statement on starwars.com... anything) that shows that the video games aren't part of the official star wars continuity.

I of course would agree that canon (the films, the screenplays, the novelisations, the radio dramas, in that order) would supercede all other official material.

We obviously have contradictions all over the EU with canon, for example details about how clones work, the "unknown regions," the apparent age of the Republic and the way in which Jedi were trained, etc, who the main Jedi Council members were, and the transmission of the Force, I could go on and on...

Basically, the way it works, is that the EU authors didn't have the benefit of knowning what the Special Editions, and then the Prequels were going to be like in 99.9999% of cases (a few did, for example some of the novels that came out at the same time that TPM or AOTC came out), and Lucas stated he didn't care if his films violated anything established in the EU. Obviously, EU authors haven't stopped making new official stuff, so they're just going to make new stuff and try to "explain away" the inconsistencies in order to keep selling books/comics, etc.

The games (like the RolePlaying Game) revise themselves to, and the video games try to (as in the case of Jedi Outcast) as well, but again, they just have to try to keep up with Lucas.

Your assesment of the games is something I'd pretty much agree with, and its what I meant, I just didn't explain myself very well in my earlier posts I guess.

But show me the quote, and I'll agree 100%. ; )

[Kurgan]

To summurize, my argument is that the same standards applied to the rest of the official EU should apply to the games as well.. where it doesn't contradict the pure canon, it should be part of the continuity, even if its on the lowest end of the official continuity spectrum.

Perhaps "concepts" (plot, characters, technology, etc) is a better word than "mechanics"...

[Vympel]

If this has already been said, then sorry but regarding games

- Game MECHANICS are not part of the continuity, but what HAPPENS in the game is. For example, Star Destroyers are not pathetically armed and undersized like they are in TIE Fighter, but the events of TIE Fighter DID transpire.

This was made clear on starwars.com Ask the Jedi Council.

[Kurgan]

A link would be nice, that's all I was asking for...

To restate what I said before. ; )

[Vympel]

Och jeez ....

You'd figure Ask the Jedi Council on starwars.com would be enough. The URL is on a few previous threads on the board.

http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc ... 10817.html

A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.

[Slartibartfast]

Maybe the Senator and later Chancellor Palpatine is actually the good person he appears to be and he's got an evil twin? Maybe he has a split-personality, or his Dark-side self decided to create another nicer "persona" so he wouldn't be suspected (like Schwarzenegger in Total Recall?)

I find that unlikely. All of Palpatine's actions as Chancellor and senator are consistent with Darth Sidious' motives and desires. Also, remember that Palpatine was busy serenading Anakin's ego in AotC, and he was the one who was pretty much responsible for having Anakin and Obi-Wan become Padme's guardians, thus putting Anakin in close proximity with Jedi forbidden fruit.

Yes I know that all points that Palpatine is the evil to-be-Emperor of the Star Wars universe. But that's exactly my point: if Lucas is blatantly putting a lot of evidence and in the end he'll just turn the whole thing upside down.

[Slartibartfast]

Okay. All I'm asking for is some *proof* (a quote from Lucas say, or a statement on starwars.com... anything) that shows that the video games aren't part of the official star wars continuity.

Go to the website (sd.net) and look up "canon policy." It's there. Really.

[Vympel]

Go to the website (sd.net) and look up "canon policy." It's there. Really.

They are part of the continuity. But their game mechanics are not, because they are modified for the purposes of gameplay.

[Slartibartfast]

If this has already been said, then sorry but regarding games

- Game MECHANICS are not part of the continuity, but what HAPPENS in the game is. For example, Star Destroyers are not pathetically armed and undersized like they are in TIE Fighter, but the events of TIE Fighter DID transpire.

This was made clear on starwars.com Ask the Jedi Council.

How can that be? In the game X-Wing, I played this rookie who did a lot of missions and then blew up the Death Star, instead of Luke. I'd say this "everything that HAPPENS is part of the continuity" is very iffy.

[Vympel]

How can that be? In the game X-Wing, I played this rookie who did a lot of missions and then blew up the Death Star, instead of Luke. I'd say this "everything that HAPPENS is part of the continuity" is very iffy.

That particular mission would be thrown out. Not the entire thing- proper analysis is on a case by case basis- we do not throw out an entire game because of one inaccuracy- e.g. we do not chuck out TIE Fighter because the Star Destroyers are wrong. The mission in X-Wing can be chalked up to gameplay consideration.

[Vympel]

You'll also note that the quote I provided SPECIFICALLY includes games in the continuity. There's just much room for interpretation and it specifically says that gameplay considerations have to be taken into account.

[MirrorUniverseSpy1]

Looks to me like Senator/Chancellor Palpatine wil be the Emporer.

[Kurgan]

A few people are actually trying to understand what I was saying, instead of taking a leap in logic and assuming that I believe that everything that happens in a game due to actions of individual players is canon or overrides canon. ; p

The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play.

I agree, and makes sense.

Returning to the question at hand. Yes, Star Wars Gamer is part of continuity, though as game material, there is room for interpretation.

I believe it.


So according to that, yes, the games are part of the official continuity, but not "all of them" (for obvious reasons) and there's room for interpretation.

Good enough for me!


Thank you for posting the link. I don't visit the site that often (mostly to avoid "spoilers")

[Gandalf]

Perhaps he has an Evil Twin he is in league with, each with or without force powers, one acting as the public face, and the other working behind the scenes. After all, didn't the TPM novel say they were 2 seperate people?

Maybe to mask his powers he gets his midichlorians removed periodically so no-one else can detect it?

[Kurgan]

For example, in Dark Forces, the player (as Kyle Katarn) fights and kills Boba Fett.

Considering the game takes place around the time of ANH/ESB, this is clearly impossible from a canon standpoint.

We all know that Fett dies in the Sarlacc, and Kyle is nowhere near him when it happens.

But, rather than say it "didn't happen" we could speculate that Fett wasn't killed, only had a run in with Katarn, and was left for dead, but went on about his other actions as we know them.

Or else it was somebody else in his suit. ; )

Also.. how many shots does it take to kill a Stormtrooper with a Blasttech E-11 blaster rifle?

According to Jedi Knight, it takes 3 shots. According to Jedi Outcast, it can take as many as SIX.

We could always speculate that different "strengths" of stormtrooper armor exist, and these may have changed since ROTJ (wherein 1 shot was usually enough to take out a Stormie). Then again, perhaps the guns have variable settings and power intensities... or the weapons have been adjusted since ROTJ...

[Tsyroc]

I was thinking that the idea that Palpatine and Sydious could be twins/clones seems good to me. Otherwise I have trouble figuring out how one person could do all of the stuff that Palpatine/Sydious has done, not to mention keeping so much of it secret for so long.

I guess the investigative press and tabloids must not be too prevalent in SW.

Especially after he became Supreme Chancellor it had to be difficult to do his job and do all the stuff that Sydious was doing. I suppose he could have hooked up with Dooku and then left most of it up to him.

[Vympel]

A lot of people are positing a cloned Emperor because of midichlorians.

It's valid speculation. Why else would Lucas mention such a concept? Making out Anakin to be strong in the force would've been easily accomplished with "the force is unusally strong in him- even stronger than in Master Yoda".