What are the Armaments of an ISD II

[Vympel]

Hmm, has anyone else considered the possiblility that the ISD II may in fact be a low-budget-fast-and-easy-to-produce ISD subclass?
With less armour and smaller guns perhaps they're cheaper and faster to build, and they were designed so that the Empire could quickly deploy huge numbers of them when the demand was there since at the climax of the civil war you'd obviously want more ships patroling your territory.

Problem with that, official material states that the armor of the ISD2 is reinforced over that of the ISD1 and that the shields are stronger.

However, there's definitely something to be said for the easy-to-produce thing. The ISD1 has a lot of big visible weapons, wheras the ISD2 visible batteries are concentrated, fewer, and less massive.

I liked Mike's point about the ISD1 being built to fight huge battles, the ISD2 is a refinement in the face of new requirements.

[Cpt_Frank]

Hmm, has anyone else considered the possiblility that the ISD II may in fact be a low-budget-fast-and-easy-to-produce ISD subclass?
With less armour and smaller guns perhaps they're cheaper and faster to build, and they were designed so that the Empire could quickly deploy huge numbers of them when the demand was there since at the climax of the civil war you'd obviously want more ships patroling your territory.

Problem with that, official material states that the armor of the ISD2 is reinforced over that of the ISD1 and that the shields are stronger.

However, there's definitely something to be said for the easy-to-produce thing. The ISD1 has a lot of big visible weapons, wheras the ISD2 visible batteries are concentrated, fewer, and less massive.

I liked Mike's point about the ISD1 being built to fight huge battles, the ISD2 is a refinement in the face of new requirements.

Yeah Mike's probably right, the ISD I is the capshipkiller and the ISD II can deal better with fighters.

[Executor]

I Believe the Heavy turbolasers on the ISD2 are indeed overall more powerful, when all 8 barrels are fired together. When one is fired it is less powerful then the ISD1. Also as someone mentioned earlier the internal mechanism of the gun could very well be inside the ship ofering better protection, this idea can also be applied to the Executor.

I set myself a litle project a while ago to identify and count the numbers of weapons on the actual Executor model from the 500+ pictures I have taken and the other 50+ pictures I have received on CD from Curtis. Although they cant be 100% identified there are several gun like structures dotted over the surface. From 4 double barrel guns with barrels of around 80 metres in length and 8 double barreled guns with barrels of around 30-40 metres (These surprisingly look tike the big missile launchers on the Acclamators gunships) down to around 28 triple barrel guns with barrels of around 30 metres. All of these gun type emplacements dont have huge turrets, which again make me believe that the internals are inside to ship, as the ISD2 guns are.

[Cpt_Frank]

I Believe the Heavy turbolasers on the ISD2 are indeed overall more powerful, when all 8 barrels are fired together. When one is fired it is less powerful then the ISD1. Also as someone mentioned earlier the internal mechanism of the gun could very well be inside the ship ofering better protection, this idea can also be applied to the Executor.

I set myself a litle project a while ago to identify and count the numbers of weapons on the actual Executor model from the 500+ pictures I have taken and the other 50+ pictures I have received on CD from Curtis.

Although they cant be 100% identified there are several gun like structures dotted over the surface. From 4 double barrel guns with barrels of around 80 metres in length and 8 double barreled guns with barrels of around 30-40 metres (These surprisingly look tike the big missile launchers on the Acclamators gunships)

LAATs?

down to around 28 triple barrel guns with barrels of around 30 metres. All of these gun type emplacements dont have huge turrets, which again make me believe that the internals are inside to ship, as the ISD2 guns are.

Hmm, how 'bout making a new thread presenting some the results of your Executor research? Very interesting.

[Executor]

[
Hmm, how 'bout making a new thread presenting some the results of your Executor research? Very interesting.

I will present some of the results when I can find the notes I made, those were just a few I could remember off the top of my head

[Cpt_Frank]

[
Hmm, how 'bout making a new thread presenting some the results of your Executor research? Very interesting.

I will present some of the results when I can find the notes I made, those were just a few I could remember off the top of my head

Very good. The Executor has many heavy weapons I assume?

[Vympel]

Although they cant be 100% identified there are several gun like structures dotted over the surface. From 4 double barrel guns with barrels of around 80 metres in length and 8 double barreled guns with barrels of around 30-40 metres (These surprisingly look tike the big missile launchers on the Acclamators gunships)

LAATs?

No, the SW2ICS identifies missile tubes on the Acclamator. Cool.

[Cpt_Frank]

Although they cant be 100% identified there are several gun like structures dotted over the surface. From 4 double barrel guns with barrels of around 80 metres in length and 8 double barreled guns with barrels of around 30-40 metres (These surprisingly look tike the big missile launchers on the Acclamators gunships)

LAATs?

No, the SW2ICS identifies missile tubes on the Acclamator. Cool.

Hmm I must go and buy this book. And the original SW ICS.

Oh and fixed the evil quotes

[Vympel]

No, the SW2ICS identifies missile tubes on the Acclamator. Cool.

Hmm I must go and buy this book. And the original SW ICS.

Oh and fixed the evil quotes

In a spending spree I bought all three ICS' and all three VDs. Good fun.

[Cpt_Frank]

They're always on ebay for 2,50 so I guess I'll buy at least the SW and EII ones.

[Executor]

[
Hmm, how 'bout making a new thread presenting some the results of your Executor research? Very interesting.

I will present some of the results when I can find the notes I made, those were just a few I could remember off the top of my head

Very good. The Executor has many heavy weapons I assume?

I would say it has many. Not a lot for the size compared to an ISD, but the guns will be more powerful.

[Executor]

Although they cant be 100% identified there are several gun like structures dotted over the surface. From 4 double barrel guns with barrels of around 80 metres in length and 8 double barreled guns with barrels of around 30-40 metres (These surprisingly look tike the big missile launchers on the Acclamators gunships)

LAATs?

No, the SW2ICS identifies missile tubes on the Acclamator. Cool.

The actual barrels look like the missile launchers on the gunships, the are a lot bigger at the base getting narrow towards the ends.

[Executor]

The small study I have done on the ISD2 pictures from various sources shows the 8 octuple guns, what we all know about. On the superstructure above and behind these there appears to be 3 twin guns of a simliar type to the Death Star guns, there is also one further twin more forward of these.
At the very bow of the ship there are 2 twin guns in the trench facing forward

[Connor MacLeod]

The small study I have done on the ISD2 pictures from various sources shows the 8 octuple guns, what we all know about. On the superstructure above and behind these there appears to be 3 twin guns of a simliar type to the Death Star guns, there is also one further twin more forward of these.
At the very bow of the ship there are 2 twin guns in the trench facing forward

If you've seen the model up close, you know there are a few smaller twin guns around the ship...maybe a couple meters on each side (they tend to be flatter, rectangular turrets.) One is located on the leftside brim trench (where the large quad lasers would be on an ISD-1) and one is located at the nose of the ship, in the trench.

[His Divine Shadow]

I don't buy that the ISD2 succeded the ISD1 in production. I think they're both supplement each other in service. We see ISD1s in Death Squadron- if the ISD2 was better in every way, seeing an ISD1 in Vader's fleet would be a bit strange.

They may do that, as I've shown they both got their strenghts and weaknesses.

[Connor MacLeod]

Total stretch, don't you think? An officer and a ship are two different things. It is perfectly possible to have the best ship in the best fleet commanded by someone who isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, however to assert that the best fleet in the Empire is equipped with suboptimal ships superseded by an all round better design is different, and silly.

I don't think anyone's arguing that anymore actually.

No. The analogy is that while one might think Vader's fleet would have access to the "best of the best", that logic doesnt neccesarily follow. You said it was unlikely that Vader's fleet would be using an older model ship. I pointed out Ozzel as an example (Unless you think that Vader's prestige demanding quality would for some reason NOT extend to officers or crew.)
It is a perfectly valid analogy. We have no reason to believe Vader WOULD get all the best ships (especially since the Executor alone could pound an entire Rebel fleet to scrap on its own) any more than we do he would have the absolute best officers or crew available to him.

Its clearly stated that the ISD-2 was an upgraded model of the ISD-1 - clearly it was meant to be superior. This is further reinforced by the fact that post-Endor Star Destroyer models (including the Republic and Nebula/Defender models) went for far more TLs than they did ion cannons.

[His Divine Shadow]

A turret of similar size but many more gun barrels may indicate a design more optimized to fighting large numbers of smaller foes.

If the ISD1 was designed to fight against ships of greater size (say, for the Clone Wars or for the "fighting yesterday's war" design syndrome), then high-powered guns make more sense. If ISD2 was designed to take out lots of corvettes, picket ships, etc. (moving into a "global policing" role), then smaller, less powerful but more flexible weapons would make sense. Not that I'm saying they're necessarily less powerful, but it's not as wacky an idea as it would seem.

It is strange then the location of such weapons, they are less accurate than the ISD1 weapons and they are positioned for massed broadsides, the ISD1 however can aim two heavy turrets forward, and has heavy brim-trench cannons and medium/heavy cannons on the underside.

If the ISD2 was designed for such duties it should have had more medium/heavy weapons evenly displaced and not have all the heavy weaposn in one place and the dorsal and trench weapons removed.
Official evidence supports this too.

Had an ISD2 been chasing the Tantive-IV they'd not been able to bring to bear any weapons beyond their light ones and the Tantive-IV might likely have escaped due to insuffient firepower being directed against them.

It seems the roles are reversed to me.
The smaller turrets I think are instead due to them being more internal where they can be better protected and possibly makes for easier servicing.

[His Divine Shadow]

moving them inside the ship itself not only protects them better against damage, but makes the turret less cumbersome (it turns better) and gives it a smaller profile (making it less of a target).

Ah yes, thats true also.

It seems that the ISD2 is designed with heavy firepower in mind while the ISD1 is more like what Mike said the ISD2 was.

[Warspite]

Had an ISD2 been chasing the Tantive-IV they'd not been able to bring to bear any weapons beyond their light ones and the Tantive-IV might likely have escaped due to insuffient firepower being directed against them.

Interesting, I've been perusing Curtis Saxton's site, and in the Stardestroyers topic, he postulates that the Tantive IV was in some way already damaged, so it's inability to escape. And, it's necessary to conclude that ligth guns have to be used, if the ship was to be captured, instead of destroyed. Also, since an ISD2 has more LTL/MTL's, that problem doesn't apply, since there would always be a certain percentage of the total gun count that could be brougth to bear, due to the design of the ISD.

[His Divine Shadow]

The medium guns where confirmed to be used on his site.

They're the only weapons I know of that could begin to overwhelm the shields on the Tantive-Iv to begin with, remember SW shield functions, a shot below the limit will do shit, just as a million shots after each other but never overcoming the shield rating will do nothing either.

They simply have to hit them with the bigger guns that can overcome the shield rating, and then lowering the efficency of the shield enough that smaller guns will be effective, and the light guns are only max 100MT a piece.

[His Divine Shadow]

Oh and where does the ISD2 have any MTL's below it's dorsal surface, it's stated to only have light weapons there.

[His Divine Shadow]

Eh farg, I've confused the Dorsal and Ventral hangar guns, I also confused the words Dorsal and Ventral, screw it

[His Divine Shadow]

Still, looking at the ANH scene, one of the Lateral Quadlasers in the brim trench seems to have fired on the Tantive-IV, thats a heavy gun.

[His Divine Shadow]

Yes, yes, it does look like the Lateral-quadlaser fired on the Tantive IV, and only a few seconds later the shields went from a relatively weak shot, I bet the quad-laser was used to take down the shields or most of them since the weaker weapons below where ineffective in bringing the shield down, or they where not effective, or quick enough in bringing it down.

So the gist of my previous message about the ISD1 handing itself much better would be true.

[Warspite]

Are you on a post count rage???

Slightly off-topic that I would like to clear up, in the ANH scene, were the turrets on central or local control?
I've never seen a reasonable explanation for the inumerous firing points, from which the ISD takes on the Tantive.