Star Wars: Rebels

[The Romulan Republic]

Sarah Michelle Gellar (Buffy) reportedly joined the cast for season two. I'm not sure if its for a guest role or as a regular. I wonder if she took the job because her husband voices Kanan?

http://www.cnet.com/news/star-wars-rebe ... le-gellar/

[SilverDragonRed]

This finale was problematic. Sure, the lightsaber fight was the best in the series so far; and it was good to see the Inquisitor's saber taken out by the ridiculous flaw I thought was there. But, it comes at the cost of Blumtroopers who can't aim near their target, the one guy who took his trigger hand off the rifle just to yell, "They're over here!"

I should not have been able to sarcastically predict during the previous episode that Fulcrum was Ashoka. And that thought just made me ask an alarming question. Is Boba Fett or Asajj Ventress going to make an appearance at some point?

Personally, I hope not.

[The Romulan Republic]

Probably. They're both fairly popular characters who are still alive.

Edit: And I'm glad Ashoka's back. I think that for the most part she was a surprisingly good character in The Clone Wars and that she had unused potential.

[Thanas]

This finale was problematic. Sure, the lightsaber fight was the best in the series so far; and it was good to see the Inquisitor's saber taken out by the ridiculous flaw I thought was there. But, it comes at the cost of Blumtroopers who can't aim near their target, the one guy who took his trigger hand off the rifle just to yell, "They're over here!"

I should not have been able to sarcastically predict during the previous episode that Fulcrum was Ashoka. And that thought just made me ask an alarming question. Is Boba Fett or Asajj Ventress going to make an appearance at some point?

Personally, I hope not.

Fett I can live without but Ventress would be awesome. She is far better than any of the rebels cast members so far.

Thoughts on the finale:

1. Ugggggggh the opening was painful. I really, really, hated it. Watching the Rebels crew just jump about within spitting distance of Stormtroopers with impunity is getting really old.

In the movies, they were very careful to maintain the illusion of danger even when - necessarily - the characters couldn't die. The movies never rejoiced in the inability of stormtroopers to hit anyone. This is done by script and story choices which maintain the illusion that the opposition is dangerous to the protagonists - things like ensuring firefights take place with lots of cover to hide behind (cell block firefight, running Bespin firefight).

Rebels has no conception of this whatsoever - it revels in having its heroes move about with impunity, making smart ass quips, with virtually no cover, within spitting distance of the enemy. The necessary consequence is that there's no tension whatsoever. Kids may get a kick out of watching their heroes brazenly thumb their noses at the ineffectual mooks of the enemy, but I do not.

THANK YOU. God, that is so annoying.

12. Ahsoka is using curved lightsabres now.

Well, she did show a like for Ventress dual-blade style in TCW.

[Lagmonster]

A friend of mine commented, and I agree, that an ideal way to begin the next season would be to have Vader march in and straight up murder Kanan. Not 'fight him in a duel, at which point he sacrifices himself to let the others get away', no drawn-out battle ending in a hero's death. Vader just plows in like a wrecking crew, beats him down and kills him in ten seconds flat via utter stomp. Then have him leave, satisfied that yet another Jedi is dead, and never have him on screen again. Then you can have Ahsoka fill in as a seasoned, more bitter and distant mentor instead.

[Vance]

A friend of mine commented, and I agree, that an ideal way to begin the next season would be to have Vader march in and straight up murder Kanan. Not 'fight him in a duel, at which point he sacrifices himself to let the others get away', no drawn-out battle ending in a hero's death. Vader just plows in like a wrecking crew, beats him down and kills him in ten seconds flat via utter stomp. Then have him leave, satisfied that yet another Jedi is dead, and never have him on screen again. Then you can have Ahsoka fill in as a seasoned, more bitter and distant mentor instead.

I agree, that would be dramatic, and in a good way. And I think anything else would be rather silly involving an encounter between these two. Remember the ease with which Sidious annihilated the Jedi knights which accompanies Windu during his execution, or the ease with which Sidious dominated both Darth Maul and his brother, Savage, at the same time, a Sith Master who Mace Windu seemed to overpower. The top end Jedi and Sith utterly stomp typical Jedi with relative ease, and Kanan isn't *supposed* to be anything special. He was apparently just a Padawan at the end of the Clone Wars.

[Thanas]

With how this plot goes so far, the writers will sacrifice Ahsoka in such a duel just to keep the bland crew together.

[Rogue 9]

There's an interview with Dave Filoni that sort of addresses this.

StarWars.com: I have a bit of a continuity challenge for you. In Return of the Jedi, Yoda tells Luke, “When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be.” But now he knows that Kanan and Ezra are out there. We obviously don’t know at this point what will happen to them, but is that something you’re aware of?

Dave Filoni: I don’t see it as a challenge at all. It’s what the Sith call an absolute. When Obi-Wan says to Luke, “Your father was the greatest starfighter pilot in the galaxy,” is that true? Or is that something you tell a kid because you want him to believe his father was great? It doesn’t have to be empirical or absolutely true. Saying Luke is “the last,” is that a singular thing, or is he the last of a group? I don’t know.

It definitely is something that comes up, and we discuss that moment all the time for what it could mean. It is possible to interpret it as, Luke is the last person that’s following the path as laid out by the Jedi Order, which we knew. The way of the Jedi is not the only way to use the light side of the Force. Luke is taught by Obi-Wan and Yoda, who very much followed the dogma of the day. So, he is the last of that line for sure. That’s absolutely true. But you don’t have to be a Jedi to use the Force. You don’t have to be a Sith to use the dark side.

StarWars.com: Like the Inquisitor.

Dave Filoni: Exactly. So, there’s definitely ways around it, but it’s definitely something that’s come up. It doesn’t mean we have to kill them, but it doesn’t mean that we won’t. We’ll have to see what makes sense.

[Lagmonster]

That is one smooth way of saying, "We won't tell you, because it would spoil the story".

[Rogue 9]

Well yes, obviously, but it also shows their mindset re: there not being any other Jedi left by the OT.

[Batman]

Technically that only means Ben and Yoda wouldn't consider Kanan a Jedi, possibly due to him never having been formally Knighted. Did either of them call Asoka a Jedi (without the Padawan qualifier) in TCW?

[Vympel]

I don't like the 'certain point of view' angle re: Luke being the last of the Jedi. Anyone like Kanan, Ezra or Ahsoka being around simultaneously with Luke weakens the significance of Luke dramatically, and it of course begs the question of just where these prominent rebels were throughout the films. They all must die, but I'm not convinced the show will have the guts to go through with it.

THANK YOU. God, that is so annoying.

Yeah, the only possible rectification of this would be the addition of rebel mooks who can be killed in larger skirmishes. I don't know if they have the guts to do this, but the possibility is there given the uniformed rebels we saw on the Ghost in the finale with Ahsoka.

This interview gives me hope:

http://www.starwars.com/news/interview- ... els-part-3

StarWars.com: Does the Ghost crew know that Darth Vader exists? Have they heard of him?

Dave Filoni: That’s another thing you battle all the time. There’s a popular thought among fans that people all know who this guy is. Why would they? I don’t think people on Coruscant really care or know that Palpatine is a Sith Lord. A lot of them wouldn’t really know what that means. Many of them would say, “Well, the trains are running on time.” Everyone’s doing well. That’s in his favor.

Vader is a known person to some, but to very few, I think. He’s known of in whispers. The Imperials know about him, but a lot of them haven’t met him. He’s not military. He’s more the fanatical wing of the Empire. One reason I believe he’s not well known is the fact that if you encounter him, you usually don’t survive.

StarWars.com: When I was watching Vader in the last episode, I thought about how you really see a different version of him in each Star Wars movie. Do you have an idea of where Vader is at mentally during Rebels?

Dave Filoni: Oh, yeah. You have to. I’ve always believed that Vader has no repentant bone in his body until he realizes his son is alive. Luke is the opportunity that triggers everything that occurs. His awareness of Luke being alive forces him to remember his past in a way that’s uncomfortable for him. It forces him to remember Padmé. It forces him down a path of, “Maybe my son will join me, and together we can rule the galaxy.” Luke really has to get him past that thought, which kind of culminates in that scene on the bridge on Endor, when Vader says, “It’s too late for me.” That realization only happens because of Luke.

Up until that point, I think he’s a destroyer. He’s an incredibly angry, hate-filled destroyer. He hates himself. He hates what happened. He hates all his former friends because he thinks they betrayed him. Anakin Skywalker thinks that he never switched sides. He thinks he’s still fighting the good fight. He thinks Obi-Wan betrayed him. He thinks Padmé betrayed him and that led to her, and their child’s, death. He thinks the Jedi were staging a coup against the Republic. He thinks the Republic was weak, and that’s why it became corrupt and fell apart despite Palpatine’s attempts to save it. Overall, he internally hates himself for everything that occurred because he thinks that he wasn’t strong enough to make things right.

He’s consumed by these ideas and is pretty much trapped. He has no option aside from embracing his new persona — Darth Vader. What we encounter in Rebels now is just a wall of anger and hate — everything that the dark side manifests.

It’s interesting to look at how he might relate to Ahsoka now. She is a living memory of who he was. Even worse, she knew the good person he was.

StarWars.com: He doesn’t want a memory of that.

Dave Filoni: He doesn’t want to be reminded of this and, in a lot of ways, he probably thinks that whole relationship was a failure because she walked away.

StarWars.com: Do you think he’s, in a twisted way, angry at her now?

Dave Filoni: Yeah. I think in the way you indirectly get angry at people when you don’t agree with their decisions, or when you let someone walk away and later something bad happens. You think, “Where were you?” You would blame anyone but yourself.

StarWars.com: So, he would have no feeling upon seeing her of, “Oh, great, you’re alive.”

Dave Filoni: No, I don’t think he would think it’s great at all.

StarWars.com: He obviously cared for her very much.

Dave Filoni: Of course, but now she and Obi-Wan Kenobi are Public Enemy Number One and Two for him. It’s personal. It begs the question: What do they know about each other? What do they know about what happened?

...

StarWars.com: With Clone Wars ending the way it did, and Rebels moving to a new time period, did that give you any new opportunities or paths for Ahsoka that you’re now glad to have?

Dave Filoni: It didn’t, really. I’ve always had a long game plan for Ahsoka, personally having been really involved with creating her with George [Lucas]. I’ve gone through different iterations over the years where she didn’t survive the Clone Wars, and then I had character paths where she did. I’m constantly developing this character. I know where she is now. I know what her failings are and what will come to haunt her this year, which I think makes her really interesting.

The original plan for her four-part arc in The Clone Wars Season Five was to bring her back to the Jedi Order at the end. I said to George, “Well, that would be what we normally do. What if we keep her expelled and see where it goes?” Luckily, he agreed.

I think the big question is, where does she go from here?

StarWars.com: Will we ever see what happened with her between Clone Wars and Rebels?

Dave Filoni: Maybe. I know what happens up to the end of Clone Wars, and I have ideas about what happens after that. If we have a good enough story, we’ll tell it. I think there is a good story about how she becomes Fulcrum.

StarWars.com: Is there anything you want to say about Season Two?

Dave Filoni: It’s better. The stakes are higher and the action’s better. We’ve been able to get the story into some very good, exciting, fun places while still maintaining a bit of intensity. If Season One represents A New Hope, Season Two is very much inspired by Empire Strikes Back.

[The Romulan Republic]

I don't think the Jedi characters have to die- they just have to no longer be Jedi. That said, I'd like to see some major casualties on the Rebels' side because it would fit with the Empire being a serious threat.

Edit: Kanan is the most logical choice, I think. I doubt they'd be willing to have Ezra die, and Ashoka... well, I may be biased because I like the character, but she could be considered not a Jedi because she left the Jedi Order.

[Thanas]

Yeah, she wasn't a jedi after TCW.

[The Romulan Republic]

Actually, Ashoka almost has to die for a reason other than being a Jedi- she's a prominent rebel leader who isn't in the Original Trilogy. I suppose she could leave the Rebellion for some reason, though.

[Thanas]

Actually, Ashoka almost has to die for a reason other than being a Jedi- she's a prominent rebel leader who isn't in the Original Trilogy. I suppose she could leave the Rebellion for some reason, though.

Well, that would depend - is she really that prominent? For all we know, she just coordinates one sector and not much, or actually isn't even a rebel leader but someone who is affiliated with them.

[Darth Tanner]

Its a bit of a stretch though that the Rebellion had one or more Jedi available when it sent Leia to Tatooine or struck at Endor and yet we don't see them. If anything someone might mention it to Luke that hey do you want to meet those three Jedi we have off in system XYZ?

As far as I'm concerned all three have to die. Ezra could get away with maybe just giving up his lightsaber and training, maybe going to live with his parents after the rescue attempt arc I'm reasonably sure is coming.

[The Romulan Republic]

As I said, they don't have to die, but they do have to not be in the Rebellion any more.

[Adam Reynolds]

Is it just me or does killing a Star Destroyer feel like too much of an early victory? This was supposed to be the Rebel Alliance with "their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire" being immediately before ANH. The only logical response to this is for Vader to come in and kills some folks. Kanan would be a good start. It might be interesting if Ashoka rescues the rest of the crew with Vader somewhat letting her go, given their history. This could also have the effect of weakening Vader's authority as we see in ANH in which he seems almost subordinate to Tarkin.

I almost feel like this series would have been better had it been moved to be closer to ANH. We would thus see the spreading Rebellion in the lead up to the theft of the Death Star plans as resistance spreads. We could then have the story continue through the events of the OT with the spreading Rebellion after the destruction of the first Death Star, the contrasting rebellion after Hoth and Bespin and the lead up to the final push at Endor. The downside to this would be that there couldn't be any significant Jedi characters as they would have to be killed of before ANH.

I did rather like Ashoka showing up again. As much as I wasn't always a fan of her character, it was nice to see some closure for her after Clone Wars simply ended. My main problem with her was that she was Anakin's padawan which didn't really fit the relationship Anakin had in ROTS. The fact that she left the Order made that work. I was initially thinking that she might make an appearance in the new movie, but it would be better if she finished her arc in Rebels. It would be rather interesting if she becomes involved in the theft of the Death Star plans, dying at Vader's hand in order to allow the plans to escape. Wasn't that the original idea for The Force Unleashed? It would certainly be a fitting ending to her character.

As for the useless stormtroopers, they are no worse than the droids of the Clone Wars. This raises a question, are the two series considered visually canon in the same sense as the films? Both lacked a degree of seriousness that the films had. Even in TPM battle droids were serious in combat. The discrepancy could be explained if the series portrayed events that actually occured, but in a dramatized fashion that was intended for entertainment.

[Imperial Overlord]

The lack of threat is annoying. I hope they do a better job of it in later seasons.

As for the ex-Jedi and whether or not they need to die, I come down in the "live" camp. It's a big galaxy. As long as they don't meet Luke they're fine. As for Luke being the "last hope" we have a number of outs. Not only do we have their dubious Jedi status we have Yoda's and Kenobi's economy with the truth. They are not the ones likely to overcome Vader and the Emperor and restablish the Jedi Order, Luke is. So he (and Leia) are the last hopes from certain points of view.

[Purple]

Think of it this way. Luke being a Jedi is almost beside the point. He and his sister are the last force-gifted skywalkers. That is what the key is. They are the children of prophecy. There could be thousands of jedi running around but they ain't the chosen ones.

[The Romulan Republic]

The problem is that Yoda specifically says that Luke is the last Jedi and there's no evidence to the contrary.

[Thanas]

The problem is that Yoda specifically says that Luke is the last Jedi and there's no evidence to the contrary.

However, Yoda also is not on top of things and he might just conclude because he hasn't heard anybody nobody exists still.

I mean, in the old EU we still had Callista.

[Adam Reynolds]

I mean, in the old EU we still had Callista.

Wasn't her soul trapped inside a computer? That's no more alive than Obi-Wan was.

[Thanas]

Yeah, sure, just pointing out that technically Yoda is wrong anyway. Also, C'baoth might count. Yes, a clone, but still a clone of a Jedi.