Rogue One (Spoilers)

[FaxModem1]

My biggest geek gripe with the movie is during the end battle we are told rather than shown twice that a capital ship's shields are down or weakened. Seriously we couldn't get a few seconds of them actually blasting each other. Its kind of sad that the best shot we have of two capital ships trading fire in a Star Wars movie is that few second shot of a Star Destroyer and Nebulon B from Return of the Jedi.

Well, there is at least one example from the prequels.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lchA-lwqr ... e=youtu.be

[Galvatron]

It is pretty damning that Rogue One made a single reactor city destroying Death Star blast have far more (ahem) "impact" than Starkiller base wiping out a whole star system of planets.

Because who cares about a bunch of idiotic and corrupt "New Republic" Senators who more than deserved their fate by basically refusing to go balls-out against the Empire with Leia and her "Resistance" in the face of basically the resurgent Empire? On the other hand, most of the audience empathised with both Saw Guerrera and that blindo Donnie Chirrut in "Rogue One". So just two good actors in supporting roles made the imperial attacks have way more impact than the entire fascist salute / planet destruction sequence in Ep VII.

One could argue that the destruction of Alderaan in ANH was executed poorly as well. Hell, we don't even get a glimpse of its people before the entire planet is obliterated.

Luckily, Carrie Fisher and Alec Guinness sold the horror of that atrocity through their acting, but we got similar off-world reactions from witnesses to Hosnian Prime's destruction in TFA.

[ray245]

One could argue that the destruction of Alderaan in ANH was executed poorly as well. Hell, we don't even get a glimpse of its people before the entire planet is obliterated.

Luckily, Carrie Fisher and Alec Guinness sold the horror of that atrocity through their acting, but we got similar off-world reactions from witnesses to Hosnian Prime's destruction in TFA.

Alderaan is the home planet of Leia, so there's bound to be some manner of emotional connections there. The Republic homeworld? It's not even Coruscant that got blown up. Nor any old EU planets. We cared about Alderaan because we know that this is going to upset Leia rather personally.

[Galvatron]

Frankly, I think they (the writers) should have blown up Coruscant. That would have had far more impact than seeing any other planet destroyed, IMO.

[NeoGoomba]

Knowing nothing of the new EU material that has come out, is Coruscant even still around in the new EU? Maybe it got wtfpwned by Alliance/Imperial forces in the aftermath of Endor? Some horrible accident that, after Jakku, broke the will to fight on both sides, leading to the massive disarmament/peace accords between the Empire and the Alliance and spread out control of the New Republic to the planets the First Order toasted?

Or am I way off base here?

[Galvatron]

According to the new EU novel, Bloodline, 20 years after the establishment of the New Republic, Coruscant was still around and represented by Senator Arbo.

[Shroom Man 777]

Holy shit that IS a great trailer musacs. But man, I still maintain that something other than an Imperial March should've been used.

[Shroom Man 777]

It is pretty damning that Rogue One made a single reactor city destroying Death Star blast have far more (ahem) "impact" than Starkiller base wiping out a whole star system of planets.

Because who cares about a bunch of idiotic and corrupt "New Republic" Senators who more than deserved their fate by basically refusing to go balls-out against the Empire with Leia and her "Resistance" in the face of basically the resurgent Empire? Nobody that I know.

And also those New Republic Senators are also all "nobody that I know." We don't even know if they are corrupt even if they are idiotic.

I mean, the most info we got from them was from Hux' speech. What the hell.

On the other hand, most of the audience empathised with both Saw Guerrera and that blindo Donnie Chirrut in "Rogue One". So just two good actors in supporting roles made the imperial attacks have way more impact than the entire fascist salute / planet destruction sequence in Ep VII.

Just underscores the fact a Star Wars movie need not be perfect to be good. But still requires some skill in execution of the plotline, no matter how primitive the plot itself actually is.

God. The movie could've just been Forrest Whittaker being crazy and having a road trip with his best friend, the BOR GULLET, and it would've been great.

The score would've just been THIS and it would be perfect.

[NeoGoomba]

Give me a Blindey Chirrut and Grizzled Baze spinoff with them just preaching on various street corners around the Empire, and the wacky hi-jinks they find themselves in.

[PREDATOR490]

Finally watched it and for a supposed 'spin-off' I feel it managed to perform way better than anything since the Original Trilogy.

I all but expected the cast to die off before I even sat down to watch it. No way they can keep the cast alive without fans wanting to see more of the characters AND asking why they do not appear in other films.

Star Destroyer emerging from the shadow of the Death Star was simply brilliantly done

Tarkin - With all the talk and hype I got wind of this and was expecting something awful. I am distinctly impressed to the point I could believe that really was Peter Cushing. Character was fairly consistent and did the job.

Leia - Not so much, it did not look right at all. Totally not worth the cameo for the cheap effort to link Leia to the main character with the 'Hope' comment.

Random Cameos - I was both stunned and rather amused at the little details packed into this film like the pilots being the same as from ANH but some of them were getting gratuitous like R2D2 and C3PO. Completely unnecessary as far as I was concerned

Battle Porn - It was rather innovative in managing to link the ground, air and space battles into a flowing kind of progression. I do feel the spaceship side of things was lacking. With all the effort this film seemed to take to put little details in, I find it a bit sad they have the Alliance throwing those space whale transport ships first seen in Hoth. Those things are transport ships and have never been shown to have weapons... why the fuck you would bring them to a space battle, I do not know.

Death Star destruction was suitably epic but it was disappointing that the Star Destroyers - The biggest iconic ship in the entire damn franchise manages to be sidelined quite a bit.

Vader - Nothing really new here but the ending was pretty epic. The lightsaber grandstanding would be expected but I LIKED the depiction of being really brutal with the force telekinetic tricks beyond choking people. It is kinda sad that most of the franchise focuses on the Force wielders but rarely do they use it in the straightforward manner. This is more relevant when you have Vader being a magic wielder against effectively helpless mundanes that have no defence against his powers.


Overall, If the actual SAGA movies would be up to this standard and take the lesson of really exploring the universe created, I could see Star Wars becoming a franchise that could go on par with Marvel's run.

[eMeM]

Battle Porn - It was rather innovative in managing to link the ground, air and space battles into a flowing kind of progression. I do feel the spaceship side of things was lacking. With all the effort this film seemed to take to put little details in, I find it a bit sad they have the Alliance throwing those space whale transport ships first seen in Hoth. Those things are transport ships and have never been shown to have weapons... why the fuck you would bring them to a space battle, I do not know.

The medium transports are also present at the battle of Endor, so they have to have some actual function. I don't like the old EU concept of Admiralu Ackbar!!!-style suicide ships and it doesn't hold the water after Rogue One which shows one of them smashing into a Star Destroyer doing no damage (although I guess it wasn't stuffed with explosives like a designated suicide ship would be). FFG games present a more convincing idea - those vessels are packed with electronic warfare gear and/or coordinating fighters, maybe some of them are makeshift carriers or gunboats.

[Galvatron]

According to the new EU, they're armed with four twin laser cannons which could make them useful in combat as anti-fighter ships akin to the Empire's Lancer-class frigates from the old EU.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Having just rewatched it, I note (among other small details and eater eggs) that the Hammerhead corvette is still stuck on that ISD as it careens into the shield gate near the end. Also, damn that CGI looks almost like actual models.

I had to take a leak originally during K-2's death when I saw it at the IMAX in December. I can see how his end pretty much paints a picture of a no escape finale to the whole show. Giacchino's score does work well in those last moments too. Though I'd have liked to see the original cut of the film if only for the face off between Jyn and a TIE/LN.

[Gaidin]

And to touch on an earlier discussion about using younger CGI versions of actors for future movies, I say we go full speed ahead with a Special Edition of the Prequels where Hayden Christensen is digitally replaced with James Earl Jones-as-Thulsa Doom.

After all, Tarkin looks pretty realistic in this Rogue One screenshot.

Seriously? Anyone have any idea how much time they spent on just doing his god damn face?

[Lord Revan]

Having just rewatched it, I note (among other small details and eater eggs) that the Hammerhead corvette is still stuck on that ISD as it careens into the shield gate near the end. Also, damn that CGI looks almost like actual models.

I had to take a leak originally during K-2's death when I saw it at the IMAX in December. I can see how his end pretty much paints a picture of a no escape finale to the whole show. Giacchino's score does work well in those last moments too. Though I'd have liked to see the original cut of the film if only for the face off between Jyn and a TIE/LN.

From what I've heard the TIE/ln was never meant to be in the movie and it's something they added for the trailer. The shot they use for that trailer bit is still in the movie just without the TIE fighter.

Something I started thinking about, but I wonder if the Hammerhead was always suppose to be in this movie and they just chose introduce it in rebels first so that people would have some idea what it was rather then it coming from no-where in Rogue One. After all movies still take a while to go from script to finished product they could have planned it out with Rebels production team.

EDIT:as for Tarkin/Leia they look decent enough when there's little motion, not good totally replace actors but not something out of rebels as it's implied here. It's when Tarkin or Leia where speaking when there was most of the issue and even then it wasn't like there was anything blatantly obvious wrong but rather the CGI looked "off".

[Admiral Valdemar]

I don't know if the viewing medium makes a difference, but I think in IMAX 3D it was a little harder to tell Tarkin and Leia were digital faces. Seeing it on a smaller 2D screen made it seem a little more obvious, but then I was also expecting it this time.

[Lord Revan]

Hard to say as I can't see movies in 3D without getting a headache (so I avoid seeing movies in 3D if I can) and there's no IMAX theaters where I while that I know of.

[eMeM]

I don't know if the viewing medium makes a difference, but I think in IMAX 3D it was a little harder to tell Tarkin and Leia were digital faces. Seeing it on a smaller 2D screen made it seem a little more obvious, but then I was also expecting it this time.

I experienced the opposite, for me it was more obvious on the large IMAX screen in 3D and much more convincing on a small screen in 2D in the local cinema

[Iroscato]

I don't know if the viewing medium makes a difference, but I think in IMAX 3D it was a little harder to tell Tarkin and Leia were digital faces. Seeing it on a smaller 2D screen made it seem a little more obvious, but then I was also expecting it this time.

I experienced the opposite, for me it was more obvious on the large IMAX screen in 3D and much more convincing on a small screen in 2D in the local cinema

More or less the same for me. Both viewings were in 2D - the first at a large chain cinema in my town. The second was at an independent, old-fashioned cinema the next town over. The second viewing made both Tarkin and Leia look even more impressive (in fact, Leia actually fooled my brain into accepting it as 'real' for a moment).

Now I think on it, my latest visit to the smaller cinema has confirmed that I always enjoy it better than the chain one. It's cheaper, has much more character, more legroom, and the sound isn't overwhelming like it is at the larger one...

[PREDATOR490]

Some elements of the film did kinda annoy me.

Blind Guy - It almost felt like this was an attempt to have a Jedi in the film without the sword. It might have worked if he wanted to do the Yoda wisdom stuff but they escalated into him practically being Daredevil. This only gets amplified when he manages to one-shot a fucking Tie Fighter with his staff.
His character shield moment was equally eye-rolling.

Not only because it manages to make the elite Death Troopers look even worse than Stormtroopers for accuracy, the entire premise of having the magic control in the middle of an open field was a bit contrived. All the other deaths are consistent and compelling in the drama but this one just kinda blew it for me.


Scarif - Blowing up the first planet, I could buy that and see the justification for it from an Imperial / Tarkin perspective.
The destruction of Scarif however seemed completely over-kill. The way this planet is portrayed, it is a highly secure facility designed to house a wealth of information. The Rebels were putting up a good fight but realistically, they were stuck and it was not as if the facility was really in danger of being captured.

I cannot get the reasoning behind Tarkin basically friendly firing his own side's major strategic asset when it would have been fine. I am even less understanding of why Vader or the Emperor would tolerate that kind of behaviour. Tarkin just nuked an Imperial planet and an archive of plans, including the Death Star. The way the film makes it sound, the information stored on this planet is extremely valuable and possibly irreplaceable.
I do not think blowing it up is going to be seen as a valid strategy when the Rebels were getting wrecked.

Hammerhead Corvette - Visually it looks pretty awesome but it stretches belief that a tiny corvette can push around a Star Destroyer even if it was disabled. That said, is this ship meant to be a derivative of the KOTOR timeline ?
On the one hand, that is kinda cool but on the other... KOTOR becoming officially part of Star Wars makes me want to see those movies eventually.

[Galvatron]

Tarkin is a close confidant of Palpatine's in the new canon. Even more so than Vader, I believe.

[The Romulan Republic]

Tarkin is a close confidant of Palpatine's in the new canon. Even more so than Vader, I believe.

Wasn't that always arguably the case? In A New Hope, Tarkin seems arguably superior in rank to Vader, or at least an equal, more or less. And wasn't he a major proponent of Imperial ideology in the old EU?

Likewise, I doubt someone who's reliability was doubted would have been given such power, or a Death Star.

[Galvatron]

I mean the EU. Old novels like Dark Lord and Darth Plagueis completely omitted Tarkin from Palpatine's backstory. The new EU novel, Tarkin (also written by Jim Luceno, just like aforementioned old EU books), depicts them as having had a long-standing friendship which predated TPM.

[eMeM]

I cannot get the reasoning behind Tarkin basically friendly firing his own side's major strategic asset when it would have been fine. I am even less understanding of why Vader or the Emperor would tolerate that kind of behaviour. Tarkin just nuked an Imperial planet and an archive of plans, including the Death Star. The way the film makes it sound, the information stored on this planet is extremely valuable and possibly irreplaceable.
I do not think blowing it up is going to be seen as a valid strategy when the Rebels were getting wrecked.

Were they? They got into the archive and stolen some data, the site got nuked to stop them from sharing the data with the rest of the Alliance. Takin was a few minutes too late, but how could he know that? Even if he knew that the Death Star plans were already transmitted it wasn't the only secret they kept in that tower.


Hammerhead was introduced in Rebels, it's just a nod to KotOR, that time period is still 100% legendary.

[PREDATOR490]

I cannot get the reasoning behind Tarkin basically friendly firing his own side's major strategic asset when it would have been fine. I am even less understanding of why Vader or the Emperor would tolerate that kind of behaviour. Tarkin just nuked an Imperial planet and an archive of plans, including the Death Star. The way the film makes it sound, the information stored on this planet is extremely valuable and possibly irreplaceable.
I do not think blowing it up is going to be seen as a valid strategy when the Rebels were getting wrecked.

Were they? They got into the archive and stolen some data, the site got nuked to stop them from sharing the data with the rest of the Alliance. Takin was a few minutes too late, but how could he know that? Even if he knew that the Death Star plans were already transmitted it wasn't the only secret they kept in that tower.

Tarkin and the Emperor are evil bastards but they are meant to be intelligent about it. The Empire has apparently went to a good deal of effort to create a secure facility for these secret plans. Destroying it would not be the kind of thing you do lightly and nothing really gives Tarkin a reason to think things were at the point friendly fire is justified.

The shield prevented anyone getting in or off the planet. The shield prevented transmissions getting out and the rebel forces were stuck. If Tarkin is so concerned about the Rebel fleet getting away with the plans, destroying the fleet would be the priority. Instead he jumps to taking a shot at the planet and destroying the facility with all hands on deck when the Rebels were getting slaughtered. They had no way off the planet and the Empire had no imperative to race against a clock.

If anything, destroying the facility would cause the Rebel fleet to scatter because they cannot complete the objective or rescue their people. Keeping the planet forces the Rebels to continue to fight a losing battle in the hopes they can rescue the rebels stuck on the planet and / or retrieve the information.

As it stands, Tarkin friendly fired a valuable Imperial asset on a whim. Doing so in such a manner that it actually exposes the Death Star firepower to a rebel fleet right after Tarkin went about covering up the LAST Death Star attack. The scene is further made silly when the Death Star decides to 'miss' so that the destruction can be drawn out for dramatic effect.
If you think your facility has been compromised and the rebels are moments away from sending critical plans... I think you would go for the direct kill shot straight at the facility rather than give the rebels MORE time to do their stuff while the planet falls to bits.