Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

[Patroklos]

So... since I'm guessing that's a rhetorical question, am I correct that your criticism here is basically that TFA fails because they need to explicitly reveal a character as a force user before they depict this character doing force-user shit? Because that's the only criticism I can extract from your rhetorical question here.

It fails in this instance, I do not think it is a bad movie. And yes, if you want me to believe something fantastic takes place because of the force, you need to tell me first.

Like you were saying before, sometimes we can suspect a force user because they are "lucky" at things. So if we came across Rey at a gambling hole in that shit stain town throwing perfect dice rolls all the time (or lets say they won't let her play because she always does) that's a subtle way of foreshadowing this. Or lets say someone asks her why she always gets the best parts out of the wrecks, even after others have supposedly picked it clean and she goes "I don't know, lucky I guess. I just have a knack for finding the the good spots." Like over years of concentrating at being good at something normal people will do, she unintentionally got uncommonly good at something trivial. This could even be piloting if they had bothered to establish that "Hey Rey, can we come with you on your next trip? You can get that hauler in places nobody else can!" In the end why did Qui Gon notice Anakin? Was it because they saw him winning a pod race after a fantastic action filled scene? No, its because he was a good tinkerer and Watto bragged about said racing skills. Before we get to see these otherwise unbelievable feats we are prepped for it.

But no. We get our introduction to Rey being good at something via expertly piloting a starship video game style.It was so over the top it broke suspension of disbelief not just from her not being able to do it as a mk1 human but as even a force sensitive.

Now I don't think Anakin is a good example of doing it right, he is a Mary Sue himself and would have been the archtype example of screwing it up instead of Rey had she not existed. In fact he was, but the fact that his Mary Suing seems so mild in comparison to Rey given the hate spewed at young Anakin is an indictment all itself. Even child Anakin was written better, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

Lets be clear here. I and every other SW fan knew she was a force user from the the opening scroll. Every damn action movie that comes out these days has a female protagonist (Hunger Games, Divergent, etc.) so we all knew it would be the case here. JJ outright said he wanted more diversity and after six movies with a main Jedi protagonist played as a male there was zero possibility it would not be Rey in this one. If you were taken in by the Finn BS they you are an idiot, sorry. And this IS NOT A BAD THING, its just a trend and was easily predictable.

So I knew this, despite the movie doing zero due diligence in character and world building, and it still broke the SOD threshold. My wife, however, who has never seen a SW movie was just completely lost. She snorted in disbelief when she pulled that stuck turrent TIE shot. Thats BAD, because we are talking about if this is a good movie or not. That doesn't mean a good movie for fanbois who know everything there is to know down to the Falcons engineering schematics, but as a self contained movie in and of itself.

Yeah, I can agree that they went a bit too far with Rey. I just don't think it amounts to as much as you do, since Rey is more or less Luke 2.0 for 2015.

Given all the things Rey is good at now that took Luke three movies to move through and even then amounts to only a fraction of the skills we see Rey perform in the space of one I'd say they skipped a few versions. More like Luke v35.0 Millenium Edition Gold.

[Elfdart]

That whole plot looks just so lazily written (I would even say sloppy - come on, everyone saw the Empire crumbling in the Episode VI finale). Hidalgo wrote it? I guessed that halfway through. Whatever criticism I have for the prequels, Lucas at least had his overarching vision. Hacks like Hidalgo, Kennedy etc, are just there to milk the cash, and I feel sorry he actually lets them run the story now.

Maybe this explains why (4:42):



Mission accomplished.

But that, like I said, is basically nothing compared to "Snoke" played by freaking Gollum. FO looks like a lamer version of the Empire - with cooler weapons, but lame bad guys. Lame villains who are fake Vader and fake Emperor? Thanks. Darth Maul at least had something original; Dooku was charismatic. But this pair? Nuh.

Maybe he's a fake, which would explain why Kylo Ren is such a joke as a villain. This movie is like a Star Wars Sum of All Fears, where neo-Nazis (a group famous for producing evil geniuses*) somehow got hold of an A-bomb and used it, except the Ben Affleck classic of bad cinema is a better movie.







* Or not.

[Patroklos]

The dialog seemed crafted to imply more than that. Unfortunately, I don't have the exact quote handy and the novelization gives somewhat different dialog. I got the very distinct impression that something more than just her piloting ability was going on.

This is the movie review, it stands and falls on what is in it alone. I am not critiquing the overall character of Rey within the sum total of the canon (though much of applies), I am critiquing the movie TFA with the character of Rey in it.

I am sure the EU will (try) to clear a lot of this up while they are busy ruining everything like they did the last time around. Its irrelevant as to whether TFA is a good movie.

(That said, the novelization does have some other tidbits from that scene: she's has been piloting various craft "almost since she could walk." Also, it explicitly stated that she knew the wreckage of the SSD wreckage intimately. In addition, she thought up the maneuver in question and prepared for it just before she made the last turn out of the wreckage.)

And once again I have to point out how easy making this movie better would have been. They actually wrote the shit that should have been in the damn movie!

It's obviously to make you think that she's a Skywalker. She has the main skills that Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker were known for: piloting and mechanical aptitude. We're just supposed to be asking whether she's Luke's or Leia's. (Her ability to use a blaster could be a reference to Leia's marksmanship.)

(Going even further: she wears a white outfit somewhat reminiscent of what Luke wore in ANH. At the end of the movie, she's wearing a grey outfit, similar to how Luke wore grey throughout ESB. There's always the chance of a misdirect, but the parallels are obvious and there are too many of them for them to all be unintentional.)

Why do we need to know she is a Skywalker right now, in the opening scenes of the movie? Did they have Luke wearing all black and speaking through a shitty speaker in ANH? Do you know how we find out Anakin is Lukes father? Is it via wardrobe choices? Is it because Luke is good at choking people and murdering moiture farmers just like old dad? No, its because Vader fucking tells him!

If the only way JJ can make us believe that Rey is Luke's daughter is making her look, act, and be good at the exact same things then the man is an incompetent. I have a father. I am sure you do too. Do you dress like dear old dad? Are you interests and skills exactly concurrent? I have an expert violin player and a WWII fighter pilot in my family tree. I can neither play the violin or fly a P51. For fucks sake, this is supposed to be a good thing?!

I would point out wardrobes are pretty sparse for a desert environment. Loose fitting ideally light colored robes are standard. I think you are right, but someone dressing like Luke who is also a desert planet resident is like claiming someone wearing shorts in Miami signifies something other than they are in Miami.

Yeah, Anakin and Luke should have been toned back, too, yes? They were so unbelievable! Luke's so awesome that Red Leader gave up his own wingmen (2 and 3: Wedge and Biggs) and gave them to Luke. After all, the farmboy from a dust ball said he could hit it, so he gets to make the run on his first mission. And brushing off Jedi Masters and going off his own path? What does he know?

Sure you could. Anakin is innately good at two things: piloting pod racers and fixing shit (he is not exatly painted as an expert space pilot). Everything else we see him do well is after its established he has been trained for years to do so. We actually never see his fix it skill again.

Luke is sort of good at exactly one thing: being a pilot, after establishing he has non trivial skills acquired just like any other human could acquire them and is never portrayed as an expert (and would have been killed, he is saved). We see him use this skill one more time at Hoth where he is in fact shot down. We never his piloting skills used again for almost two whole movies.

Rey, as I will list again, is shown as a top contender for best pilot in the galaxy EVER, liguist, bo melee combat extraordinaire, engineering extraordinaire (and not that lame reassemple a protical driod shit, but fix fucking hyperdrive shit even better than Han and Chewie!), liguistic expert in multiple species and droids, force user for both piloting (if that is the case) and mind tricks, sword fighting expert but at least competent, expert blaster marksmen on first try, expert escape artist, etc. etc.

So of the three which needs dialing back. I guess the best question is of the three here, which of them could I dial some of their skill back and not break the movie outright?

On to your wholefully inaccurate portrayal of Luke at Yavin, there is any number of reasons why the Luke received a wingman. Maybe Luke had more ordinance left? Maybe he had used less fuel at that point? Maybe he had not taken less damage? Maybe the circumstances of the moment put his X-wing in the logical lead position? Maybe they were assigned to him because Luke took a hit already? Maybe they assigned experienced veterans to a newbie just like they do in real life? Maybe they put Luke in front because all he had to do was look at a targeting computer while the hard part was covering the lead? The point is it was situational, he was not designated the commander or squadron leader. In fact Luke never issues an order to anyone, and as far as I can tell not a single pilot takes any of his suggestions for action either. He is portrayed as exactly what he is, mook Red 5.

https://youtu.be/2WBG2rJZGW8

Actually, there's nothing wrong with any one element. They're all easily explainable all by themselves.

...

Yes, the movie is pushing a bit hard that she has all these Skywalker traits. It's almost like the movie wants us to think she's a Skywalker. Like, that her relationships to the Skywalkers might be a big plot point in the next movie.

Your list is covered already, I won't recover it here.

Yes, they want you to know she is related to Luke. Why is this important to this movie in any way shape of form again? What plot point hinges on this? Oh, the McGuffin map at the end of the movie that we already explained was pointless in the first place and served no purpose but to get Rey to Luke for nothing that influences this film. Right. So glad we spared all that time and effort to make sure we know she is related to Luke.

Why is Rey not fostered with Leia again?

The difference is that for them (except young Anakin), winning was within the realm of possibility. Rey acknowledged that her maneuver was something that never, ever should have worked. The movie is practically beating you over the head with it, why are you denying it?

Its made clear in the DS briefing scene that the mission is essentially hopeless and their chances are pretty much nil. Do you remember that "Never tell me the odds" line from the asteroids? Did those odds impress you as "in the realm if possibility"? Are you a lottery player?

What Rey does is in the realm of possibility just like Lando blowing up the death star and Luke hitting the exhaust shaft and when does Rey say that move should have never, ever have worked? I remember surprise that it did, but thats not the same thing because as I already said that applies to pretty much every crazy piloting situation in the series. What expression does she make that is any more emotional and exasperated than the hanger reunion scene of ANH or the in Lando's cockpit as they escape the DSII?

No, the first hint is Rey's reaction to Finn afterwards. it's setting up the mystery for Rey and any who have not seen a Star Wars movie in their life.

If you have this dialogue I'd really like to see it. Its irrelevant, the scene is too much for the mechanic you are imagining, but at least if it was there that's something.

[Galvatron]

(That said, the novelization does have some other tidbits from that scene: she's has been piloting various craft "almost since she could walk." Also, it explicitly stated that she knew the wreckage of the SSD wreckage intimately. In addition, she thought up the maneuver in question and prepared for it just before she made the last turn out of the wreckage.)

Wow, I didn't even read the novelization and was able to pull those same rationalizations out of my ass earlier in the thread.

[Channel72]

Why is Rey not fostered with Leia again?

That's a good question - but it's not really productive to wonder about that now, given that we clearly don't have anything like the full story at the moment. Also, this assumes that Rey is the daughter of Luke or Leia, which we really don't know to be the case yet, as obvious as it may seem.

However, I'd be surprised if there's ever a really satisfactory answer that holds up to scrutiny. Star Wars has a really bad track record with shit like this. (Why is Luke being "hidden" in the same fucking house where Anakin grew up? * etc.)

* Please do not attempt to answer this question. I've heard "answers" to this question for the last 10 years, and they all suck.

[Galvatron]

It's entirely possible that Rey was kidnapped by Snoke and abandoned on Jakku. Kylo may have even helped him do this as one of his early acts of rebellion against Luke.

[Channel72]

But then why not just kill her? (Unless he intended to convert her to a darkside user, but then abandoning her on Jakku doesn't really help with that goal either.) Also, the flashback where Rey is a little girl seems to indicate that somebody she trusted, either her parents or someone else, abandoned her there, because she cries out for them and even in the present waits steadfastly for their return.

[Galvatron]

She probably trusted her older cousin, Ben, at that age. Maybe he couldn't bring himself to kill her and thought that marooning her on a hostile desert world was bad enough. It would also explain his reaction to the First Order officer who first mentioned the girl who helped Finn.

[Channel72]

Lets be clear here. I and every other SW fan knew she was a force user from the the opening scroll. Every damn action movie that comes out these days has a female protagonist (Hunger Games, Divergent, etc.) so we all knew it would be the case here. JJ outright said he wanted more diversity and after six movies with a main Jedi protagonist played as a male there was zero possibility it would not be Rey in this one. If you were taken in by the Finn BS they you are an idiot, sorry. And this IS NOT A BAD THING, its just a trend and was easily predictable.

Well, maybe I'm just an idiot, but it wasn't completely obvious to me. I'm aware that there is a general push to be more diverse in terms of casting when it comes to action movies. This is great, but I don't see how Finn wouldn't perfectly satisfy this requirement. He's black, after all - and a black (male) lead would be just as great as a female lead. In fact, it's something of a cliche that people have been complaining about no black people in Star Wars since ANH came out (with Lando thrown in later as a response to that.) So going into this movie for the first time, it wasn't completely obvious to me that Rey would be the force user. (In fact, it still isn't entirely clear that Finn is not force sensitive... he's probably not, as two force user leads would kind of suck, but whatever.)

It became obvious to me that Rey was very likely a force user after the initial chase scene with the Falcon thru the derelict Star Destroyer. Again, I don't recall the verbatim dialogue, but Finn says something like "that was crazy, how did you do that?" And Rey says "I don't know! It just happened!" - or something along those lines. It was clearly showing that Rey is strong with the force.

Also, in hindsight, it's pretty obvious that Rey needs to be the force user here, because otherwise her character is mostly pointless. Every other character has some kind of background that makes them integral to the story: Finn is a former stormtrooper who wants to join the Resistance, Poe is an ace pilot, Rey is a ... random junkyard hobo? So obviously Rey needed to be the force user here, given the way the other characters fit into the story.

[Lord Revan]

But then why not just kill her? (Unless he intended to convert her to a darkside user, but then abandoning her on Jakku doesn't really help with that goal either.) Also, the flashback where Rey is a little girl seems to indicate that somebody she trusted, either her parents or someone else, abandoned her there, because she cries out for them and even in the present waits steadfastly for their return.

one possibility is a combination of those where Snoke adjucted her thru an agent Rey trusted for what ever reason, however for what ever reason this agent left her in Jakku instead of delivering Rey to Snoke and the First Order.

after all it's unlikely that if Snoke did abjuct Rey that he did it in person instead having someone else do it under orders from Snoke.

[Galvatron]

one possibility is a combination of those where Snoke adjucted her thru an agent Rey trusted for what ever reason, however for what ever reason this agent left her in Jakku instead of delivering Rey to Snoke and the First Order.

And Kylo is the obvious candidate for that. Look how much he struggled with killing his father. I imagine he would have been filled with even more emotional turmoil when it came to young Rey.

Unlike Vader, who killed younglings without hesitation within minutes of falling to the dark side, Kylo seems far more conflicted about committing such atrocities. Granted, Vader may have shown more hesitation if any of those kids had been family based on his reluctance to fight Obi-Wan.

[Patroklos]

I am not sure how old these characters are supposed to be but Ridley is 23 and Driver is 32. So if Rey is five in this scene Ben would have bee around 14 unless they cast the ages way off. A fourteen year old kidnapping people or doing anything interesting? BARF.

[Galvatron]

If that's how it went down, I'm glad we didn't see it. The last thing this series needs is more kids.

[Channel72]

Anyway, on another note, I thought it was interesting that the crazy stunt Han Solo pulls, where he exits Hyperspace within the atmosphere of the Starkiller planet, is actually a recycled idea from an early Phantom Menace script, believe it or not.

Remember all those Trade Federation ships forming the blockade in the beginning of Phantom Menace? And remember how they're just like... conveniently gone later in the film when Padme returns to Naboo? In an earlier draft, the blockade wasn't simply conveniently "erased" for no reason. Rather, Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan has Anakin use the force to perfectly time coming out of Hyperspace on the other side of the blockade (presumably within the atmosphere of Naboo, so the ship isn't detected).

(Note that in this draft, Naboo is called Utapau)

Upon returning to Utapau, the entire Trader's blockade is found still in place. In order to avoid the battleships, Obi-Wan proposes a plan that relies on the Force skills of Anakin. He tells them to "come out of lightspeed between the blockade ships and the planet," which both Panaka and Ric Olie argue is impossible. According to Ric, "The calculations are too infinite even for the most advanced computer."

Obi-Wan believes that Anakin's innate connection to the Force will enable him to "sense the proper moment to come out of lightspeed." Anakin takes the co-pilot's seat and straps himself in. Obi-Wan says to him, "Think of yourself racing...take the controls. We're heading toward a planet... Concentrate. Stop right before the surface."

I'm not sure if I like the idea, but it would at least have provided a reason for why Anakin was even present on Naboo for the ending battle. For whatever reason, Lucas got rid of this - maybe he thought it was too crazy. But it seems like the idea has been floating around with Lucasfilm writers for some time, and somebody suggested putting it into the TFA script because it provided a quick way for Han and co to infiltrate Starkiller base. However, in its original context, it clearly is described as being something that is virtually impossible to achieve, and can only be done with Force assistance. By the time it ended up in TFA, it is sort of "degraded" to something that an experienced non-force user can do.

[Mad]

This is the movie review, it stands and falls on what is in it alone. I am not critiquing the overall character of Rey within the sum total of the canon (though much of applies), I am critiquing the movie TFA with the character of Rey in it.

As a one-shot movie, sure. Keep in mind, however, that this is a part of a trilogy, which is also a part of a trilogy of trilogies. How it fits into the bigger whole is also a factor. We haven't seen the rest of the bigger whole, so there could also be some things that are intentionally held back so that they can be revealed later (e.g., Rey's parents).

That's always a danger here. It's like criticizing some out-of-character response someone has during a TV series only to realize that, oh, there's a reason for that in the season finale. Or, maybe it's never addressed and really was just bad writing.

And once again I have to point out how easy making this movie better would have been. They actually wrote the shit that should have been in the damn movie!

It was easy enough to guess just by thinking about it for a couple seconds. Several people have already done that. Not everything has to be force-fed to the audience.

Yes, I agree that it's nice when there's a throwaway line to resolve it, but when a plausible answer is that easy to come up with based on the dialog we do have, it isn't a huge negative in my book. We did have some throwaway lines about her having piloted other ships both before and after the wreckage sequence, so it's really easy to fill in the blanks yourself. (The bigger problem would be if there were absolutely no lines about her having flown anything, or, worse, that she's never flown anything ever.)

Why do we need to know she is a Skywalker right now, in the opening scenes of the movie? Did they have Luke wearing all black and speaking through a shitty speaker in ANH? Do you know how we find out Anakin is Lukes father? Is it via wardrobe choices? Is it because Luke is good at choking people and murdering moiture farmers just like old dad? No, its because Vader fucking tells him!

If the only way JJ can make us believe that Rey is Luke's daughter is making her look, act, and be good at the exact same things then the man is an incompetent. I have a father. I am sure you do too. Do you dress like dear old dad? Are you interests and skills exactly concurrent? I have an expert violin player and a WWII fighter pilot in my family tree. I can neither play the violin or fly a P51. For fucks sake, this is supposed to be a good thing?!

You don't have enough hints that she's a Skywalker until more reveals occur later in the movie. And, I as I said, it's intended to make you think she's a Skywalker. It could be a misdirect.

This trilogy is also likely more fully planned out than the original trilogy was. Had Vader been intended to be Luke's father all along, I'm sure there would be a few extra hints given in ANH.

I would point out wardrobes are pretty sparse for a desert environment. Loose fitting ideally light colored robes are standard. I think you are right, but someone dressing like Luke who is also a desert planet resident is like claiming someone wearing shorts in Miami signifies something other than they are in Miami.

That's why it's a combination of things and not just any one thing in isolation. That Rey has a similar costume change as Luke is also a factor. If, at the end of the movie, she were wearing something unlike anything Luke wore, then her desert outfit wouldn't be of note.

Sure you could. Anakin is innately good at two things: piloting pod racers and fixing shit (he is not exatly painted as an expert space pilot). Everything else we see him do well is after its established he has been trained for years to do so. We actually never see his fix it skill again.

Luke is sort of good at exactly one thing: being a pilot, after establishing he has non trivial skills acquired just like any other human could acquire them and is never portrayed as an expert (and would have been killed, he is saved). We see him use this skill one more time at Hoth where he is in fact shot down. We never his piloting skills used again for almost two whole movies.

Rey, as I will list again, is shown as a top contender for best pilot in the galaxy EVER, liguist, bo melee combat extraordinaire, engineering extraordinaire (and not that lame reassemple a protical driod shit, but fix fucking hyperdrive shit even better than Han and Chewie!), liguistic expert in multiple species and droids, force user for both piloting (if that is the case) and mind tricks, sword fighting expert but at least competent, expert blaster marksmen on first try, expert escape artist, etc. etc.

Pulling off one maneuver doesn't make her the best pilot ever. Poe's flying was far more impressive. Other than that, she didn't do anything Lando hadn't already done. (On the other hand, kid Anakin was better at podracing than any other human, ever.)

She wasn't an expert with her staff. Proficient enough, but I don't see where you're getting "expert" from.

For engineering, most of her oneupmanship was in regards to that piece of junk the previous owner installed. She knew it was installed (argued with him about doing it in the first place), and knew why it would be a problem. It was specifically tied to a piece of hardware she stated she had knowledge of.

The only thing outstanding about her language abilities, compared to other characters, is her ability to understand astromech droids. Well, at least BB-8. I can't recall from the movie, but in the novelization it appears that others can understand BB-8 as well (Chewie and Poe), so it's not unique to her. There's mention of other droid dialects (apparently Artoo speaks a different dialect that isn't as well known).

So of the three which needs dialing back. I guess the best question is of the three here, which of them could I dial some of their skill back and not break the movie outright?

So, which? What can you dial back without breaking the movie and the foreshadowing and mystery (some of which are not to be resolved until later movies) that was intended? (Yes, I'm sure there's a million possibilities, since there were millions of ways to write the movie.)

On to your wholefully inaccurate portrayal of Luke at Yavin, there is any number of reasons why the Luke received a wingman. Maybe Luke had more ordinance left? Maybe he had used less fuel at that point? Maybe he had not taken less damage? Maybe the circumstances of the moment put his X-wing in the logical lead position? Maybe they were assigned to him because Luke took a hit already? Maybe they assigned experienced veterans to a newbie just like they do in real life? Maybe they put Luke in front because all he had to do was look at a targeting computer while the hard part was covering the lead? The point is it was situational, he was not designated the commander or squadron leader. In fact Luke never issues an order to anyone, and as far as I can tell not a single pilot takes any of his suggestions for action either. He is portrayed as exactly what he is, mook Red 5.

https://youtu.be/2WBG2rJZGW8

It was hyperbole. BTW, why are you allowed to come up with excuses for Luke's Gary Stuing, but nobody is allowed to do the same for Rey?

Its made clear in the DS briefing scene that the mission is essentially hopeless and their chances are pretty much nil.

Which is why they all evacuate Yavin IV like they did at Hoth, right? And why Leia took measures to ensure that the ship she knew was being tracked couldn't find the rebel base, like how she hopped on a different freighter to get to the Rebel base?

It's also why they decided that they shouldn't risk their entire fleet on a fool's errand at Endor, yes?

If you have this dialogue I'd really like to see it. Its irrelevant, the scene is too much for the mechanic you are imagining, but at least if it was there that's something.

The best I've been able to find without rewatching the movie is
"How did you do that?"
"I don't know"

But that seems like less than what I remember.

Channel72 may be closer:

but Finn says something like "that was crazy, how did you do that?" And Rey says "I don't know! It just happened!" - or something along those lines. It was clearly showing that Rey is strong with the force.

Hopefully someone who has seen the movie more recently can chime in.

[Terralthra]

I, for one, really hope that Rey is not Luke's child. It would be disappointing for me if it turned out that the Force users of this generation are all the descendants of one guy. An entire galaxy's worth of people and that's all we get? Two grandchildren of Anakin? It is enough that she is trained by Luke, she doesn't have to be descended from him.

Also, her outfit throughout the movie mirrors Jedi robes. Tan colors, with tabards being held in at the waist by a belt. They look like Luke's at the end because he's also wearing something quite similar to prequel Jedi robes, though fuller length like Obi-Wan's ANH outfit rather than thigh-length like most of the active male Jedi in the PT.

[Rogue 9]

On to your wholefully inaccurate portrayal of Luke at Yavin, there is any number of reasons why the Luke received a wingman. Maybe Luke had more ordinance left? Maybe he had used less fuel at that point? Maybe he had not taken less damage? Maybe the circumstances of the moment put his X-wing in the logical lead position? Maybe they were assigned to him because Luke took a hit already? Maybe they assigned experienced veterans to a newbie just like they do in real life? Maybe they put Luke in front because all he had to do was look at a targeting computer while the hard part was covering the lead? The point is it was situational, he was not designated the commander or squadron leader. In fact Luke never issues an order to anyone, and as far as I can tell not a single pilot takes any of his suggestions for action either. He is portrayed as exactly what he is, mook Red 5.

https://youtu.be/2WBG2rJZGW8

Huh. I never noticed before that they called for Porkins after he died. (He identifies as Red 6 in the check-in, and someone asks Red 6 if he can see Red 5 about two minutes after Porkins is shot down.)

[Elheru Aran]

I don't know if this has been covered and I'm not going to check 20+ pages for it, but one niggle did come to mind.

Han borrows Chewie's bowcaster at Maz's place when the Imperials are attacking, and apparently... it's the first time he's ever used it, or something.

OK, they've been together since some time before ANH. Even if it wasn't that long... that's still ~30ish years that they've been together. And in all that time, he's never bothered to borrow the bowcaster? Come the fuck on.

[Borgholio]

OK, they've been together since some time before ANH. Even if it wasn't that long... that's still ~30ish years that they've been together. And in all that time, he's never bothered to borrow the bowcaster? Come the fuck on.

Yeah I mentioned that in my first review of the movie. I felt it was rather unlikely that in all that time Han never would have borrowed the bowcaster even just once to test it. Still though, it was amusing how they portrayed his reaction.

Oh and Chewie is a fucking sniper with that thing...

[Captain Seafort]

Oh and Chewie is a fucking sniper with that thing...

He is getting on towards 250, and has presumably been using bowcasters for most of that time. You'd probably be pretty good at something if you had a couple of centuries of practice.

[Solauren]

Just got home from it.

Did I just watch the good elements of the EU merged into a single movie? I think I did......

Meh... I liked Thrawn, and I didn't see him in there. I also like all the different TIE variants, and while we got a shiny black & red color scheme, the 2-seater and regular fighter versions apparently look exactly alike.

Attack on Starkiller Base; When Poe went inside, the scence was right out of Rebel Assault II
Kylo Ren is practically a Jacen Solo clone, except he kills Han instead of Mara Jade.
Luke goes into hiding! (Black Fleet Crisis)
Starkiller Base (Force Unleashed nod) - Drains the power from a star, essentially crushing it (Sun Crusher/Jedi Academy), and then fires it Hyperspace to blow up a planet (Galaxy Gun - Dark Empire)
One of Luke's apprentices goes rogue, and nearly destroys everything (Kyp Durron - Jedi Academy)

[Solauren]

Just got home from it.

Did I just watch the good elements of the EU merged into a single movie? I think I did......

Meh... I liked Thrawn, and I didn't see him in there. I also like all the different TIE variants, and while we got a shiny black & red color scheme, the 2-seater and regular fighter versions apparently look exactly alike.

Attack on Starkiller Base; When Poe went inside, the action was right out of Rebel Assault II
Kylo Ren is practically a Jacen Solo clone, except he kills Han instead of Mara Jade.
Luke goes into hiding! (Black Fleet Crisis)
Starkiller Base (Force Unleashed nod) - Drains the power from a star, essentially crushing it (Sun Crusher/Jedi Academy), and then fires it Hyperspace to blow up a planet (Galaxy Gun - Dark Empire)
One of Luke's apprentices goes rogue, and nearly destroys everything (Kyp Durron - Jedi Academy)

[biostem]

Starkiller Base (Force Unleashed nod) - Drains the power from a star, essentially crushing it (Sun Crusher/Jedi Academy)

The Sun Crusher was a near invincible fighter-sized ship that launched torpedoes that made stars go nova, so that doesn't really fit.

[Iroscato]

Guys, it was a good movie. Stop overthinking it.

*Runs*

[biostem]

Guys, it was a good movie. Stop overthinking it.

*Runs*

I don't think that the problem was that it wasn't "good" - it was that, for a franchise such as Star Wars, and all the hype, it wasn't good enough. Then again, given the prequels, the bar wasn't all that high to begin with...