Theed powerplant vs lightsabre

[The Dude]

I've been thinking about this on and off for a while, and I don't think it's particularly thought through

Obviously, you've got the films as the ultimate canon, as per the Jedi Council part of www.starwars.com, but where does placing screenplays above novelisations come from?

It's extremely well thought-through, and should be self-evident: Lucas wrote the screenplay, and Terry Brooks wrote the novel. The screenplay obviously carries more weight.

I've never seen a quote from LFL that says "in that order". All I've fan are fan interpretations, some of which (points at poe) take "screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations" (from SWI #23) and change the order completely.

The logic is simple: which is the purer representation of Lucas' intentions? The answer is obvious - the screenplay, which is his own work. I have never heard of anyone suggesting that the novels be given precedence over GL's own screenplays before.

Regardless, the accepted heirarchy of canon is not fan-invented; it is the order used by Lucasfilm itself, as discussed extensively at http://www.starwarz.com/timeline/home.html

Try headbutting a waterfall. Watch as your head goes straight through. Oops.

Try headbutting a block of steel. Your head does not go straight through. Why? A wall of electrons.

[Darth Servo]

So, next time someone tries to pull out "survivors" and the 400GW quote I should tell them to stop playing the name game? After all, it's just a name for the power of the weapon.

There is canon evidence that SW lasers are not lasers. They do not fit the real life definition of laser therefore they are not lasers INSPITE of the name. There is ZERO evidence against the GW terms. Don't be an asshole (if you can).

why is it everytime someone sees no other way out they fall back to "it's just a name game" or "it's all semantics", usually mixed in with threats to lump their opponent with someone the majority vehemently dislike

Stop projecting your own position on to others. YOU have no evidence other than the device's name which is NOT evidence. YOU are the one with no fallback position.

(and for the record, I've known both TOWNMNBS and Darkstar, and whilst they may be annoying they are far from idiots)

Thus providing more evidence of your own stupidity. They are both certified idiots.

Check out DS's latest STUPIDITY

[Lord Poe]

I've been thinking about this on and off for a while, and I don't think it's particularly thought through

Obviously, you've got the films as the ultimate canon, as per the Jedi Council part of www.starwars.com, but where does placing screenplays above novelisations come from?

I've never seen a quote from LFL that says "in that order". All I've fan are fan interpretations, some of which (points at poe) take "screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations" (from SWI #23) and change the order completely.

It's quite simple. As has been pointed out already, the ultimate canon is the movies, made by Lucas.

Next would obviously be the SCREENPLAYS, also written by Lucas, which the ultimate canon (The Movie) comes from.

Next would be the novelizations, which are based on the screenplays, which in turn is where the ultimate canon, the Movie comes from.

And lastly, we have the Radio Dramas, which are based on the canon movie, the screenplay,and the novelizations.

It can't be any other way. Sorry. (points at Edam)

[Lord Poe]

"Seem to be", Edam? Where is your proof these AREN'T lasers?

If they were lasers you wouldn't be able to nut them repeatedly, as Sisko/Jorel did in DS9:Facets.

Then Maul should have been able to deflect that entire "wall" away with his lightsaber, if it was made up of a simple "laser"

From the quotes you snipped, it has been proven clearly that the "lasers" in the Theed control room were INDEED "more of a physical barrier"

You took the description "deadly wall" and assumed this made them a physical barrier - it doesn't.[/quote]

I see. So does "wall" mean something else to you people in Wales besides a physical barrier?

You can have a deadly wall of lasers. Which they do. Here. It's like a wall, made of energy, that you can't pass without getting killed.

And the forcefields in Trek act this way as well. It's like a wall, made of energy, that you can't pass without getting injured.

So yes, they ARE like Trek forcefields, aren't they?

Nope. You wouldn't be able to repeatedly nut a wall of electrons either, which is the other description of the shields.

Funny, they do it in Trek all the time.

And the handheld phasers from season 1 "don't look that different" to dustbusters. So why do I need a description of them being used as vacuums, oh hypocritical one?

They look different in use,[/quote]

But they DON"T LOOK THAT DIFFERENT, which stays right in your ballpark, Sparky.

[Connor MacLeod]

You are yet to prove a wall of electrons would act as the shields do. I have already given similar examples of lasers acting as we see them act in TPM.

You've said "It says they're lasers, so they're lasers" and cited examples as to why they MIGHT. You have yet to prove that there is any canonical evidence that those "lasers" were photonic in nature.

Meanwhile, we have provided ample proof they are electron in nature (canon proof no less) as well as official proof substantiating that. Perhaps they have forcefield effects to confine them and provide the repulsion effects - its irrelevant. You have failed to meet the burden of proof to disprove the novelization and scripts. Your nitpicky "I'm right" opinions do not constitute proof.

And more importantly, you cannot demand burden of proof from ME to explain how the shield works with involving electrons when you have not made any effort to satisfy the burden of proof in proving they are photonic lasers (something other than your meaningless speculation and interpreations, that is.)

PainRack also posted a very good reason why the field can't be overly charged in his very first post, which I quoted on the previous page.

The Darth Maul Shadow Hunter quote? So now you're trying to use EU to override canon? Can you fucking twist things any more deliberately to suit your purposes?

Sorry, doesn't work that way. Canon scripts and novelization say they have electrons. That overrides official if it constitutes the problem you try to imply.

Yet again I repeat, TLs and other "laser" weaponry (by your own quotes provided in this thread) use lasers to energise the gas that they use.

Read the quotes I provided fuckwit. It says nothing about using lasers to energize the gas. It only says they use a power charge. Yet more manipulation of evidence.

Hence the use of lasers in their name even though they look nothing like lasers in operation. Here, it's called a laser repeatedly in several sources.

Again, you're basing your argument on evidence you misrepresented.

It looks like we know lasers can look. There's no reason to believe canon sources are wrong.

I'm not saying the canon sources are wrong, I'm saying you're wrong. you do not qualify as a canon source. The canon sources say electrons. Edam says lasers. Canon > Edam. Live with it, dipshit.

They may also contain a small number of electrons, possible from air or other particles ionised by the lasers, but this isn't as much of a charge as electrically charged stun netting has, or Maul would have been electrocuted (as per the reference given by PainRack in the very first post to this thread).

And as stated canon > EU. Prove that they're photon lasers with canon proof from the movies or other canon sources. Not more of your inane "I'm right" ranting you usually resort to and demands we disprove you wrong.

from one of your posts on page one (EGWT p80)

The laser actuator combines high energy blaster gas with a large power charge. (The Actuator's prismatic crystal produces the high energy beam of charged particles coupled with light.)"


hmm..take a high powered laser, combine with blaster gas. Get charged particles out. Seems your own quotes prove lasers are used to energise gases.

No, it says "Large power charge". It doesn't say laser, dipshit. Fabricating evidence yet again. Prove that the "large power charge" is in fact a laser.

You are the one claiming lasers are not lasers. I have provided references describing the shields as lasers. I have shown lasers can look as these shields look. I have shown that there cannot be a large concentration of electrons there (Thanks to PainRack's first post).

1.) You have assumed that laser MUST mean photonic laser even though there is no proof suggesting photons are involved and there is evidence suggesting it isn't.

2.) Your examples are meaningless without having first proven that there was a photonic component involved - ie canon. You cannot cite examples and claim "I'm right" because you think they MIGHT work as you suggested.

3.)

You have failed burden of proof repeatedly, and now you're trying to evade responsibilty for that failure. Grow some fucking gonads for once Edam and stop hiding behind your bullshit arguments. You've lost, and you have no argument.

Either they are lasers, or they are electrons. I've done more than enough to prove they are lasers now it's your turn. If you won't accept they are lasers prove they are electrons.

They're electrons. I provided canon proof they are (As has wayne.) You have provided NO canon proof that suggests that they were photonic lasers (simply citing the fact the novel calls them lasers does not do this, dipshit.) I am required to do NOTHING until you can canonically prove those are photonic lasers.

Provide canon evidence proving they are lasers (and none of this semantic or interpretive bullshit you keep trying to pull.

Oh, no, that would mean work, wouldn't it? You won't do that. You'll just keep shouting I've not proven anything until I get fed up of listening to you.

What part of "provide canon proof they are photonic lasers" do you not understand, asshole? Is someone not talking slowly enough for you to understand this?

YOU. HAVE. PROVIDED. NO. CANON. PROOF. THAT. DEMONSTRATES. THEY. ARE. LASERS.

Therefore, any evidence you have presented is pure bullshit until you can provide evidence that overrides the canon evidence provided. You failed burden of proof. Concession accepted, you dishonest asswipe.

[Slartibartfast]

The lightsaber doesn't go thru nor is the blade shortened. It behaves like a solid, you blind assrat.

The Ls isn't pushed through enough to go through. It's touched against the field. You insist this is because the field is solid, I suggest it is simply because that's what Maul chose to do.

So, according to you, the field is like a weak thin membrane, and the sabre would have gone thru it if enough effort was put in it. Well, like assholes, everyone's got an opinion, but still membranes are solid. Otherwise the saber would have gone right thru it with ZERO effort and not made any ripples, wouldn't it? Concession accepted.

Isn't it sad when your insults show your idiocy?

You, on the other hand, don't need to make insults for that.

We know how a laser works. We are explained how a Star Wars laser works.

No one has explained how a Star Wars laser works. Plenty have tried to claim Star Wars lasers aren't lasers because (eg) "turbolasers" make visible bolts, but that's been explained (laser is there because it activates the gas).

Fighter craft weapons aren't turbolasers, they are called Blasters or Lasers interchangeably. And turbolasers are also sometimes called lasers for short. Concession accepted.

Sure, after you admit that Phaser Rifles fire rifled bullets.

Why would I want to do that? the "rifle" of modern rifles comes from the name given to the grooves in the barrel, that make the bullet spin (note, that's in the barrel, not the bullet - see dictionary.com). We don't know enough about phaser rifles to say if they have rifling in the barrel or not.

Ah, so you argue that the bullets aren't rifled, but that the phaser rifles must have rifled barrels that make the bullet spin. Nitpicky but a concession anyway.

Except that we saw him try, and fail.

He briefly touched the field with his lightsabre - you can hardly call that trying. It's more like someone tapping on a glass window than trying to put their hand through it.

Oh, so he tapped on it. That requires a solid. Concession accepted.

[Slartibartfast]

Hell, why stop there? "galaxy" is really an archipelago on a planet, and "humans" are flees on an elephant's back.

Ah, so the Enterprise-D is actually a galaxy. Would have never imagined it, I always thought it was a starship. Or maybe it was an archipielago?

[Slartibartfast]

Code: Select all

	 A powerful blow from the unpleasant creature sends the
	young would-be Jedi sailing across the room, crashing through
	tables and breaking a large jug filled with a foul-looking
	liquid. With a blood curdling shriek, the monster draws a
	wicked chrome laser pistol from his belt and levels it at old
	Ben. The bartender panics.

BARTENDER: No blasters! No blaster!

This is from the screenplay. It uses the word blaster and laser interchangeably. Proof that laser is a slang (sp?) word.

And this is not from different contradicting sources. These are two names used in the same scene in the same canon source, barely a paragraph again, referring to the same object.

And if you wanna argue that one is dialogue and the other is narration, you could easily say the same about any other text or script or novelization. I don't recall Qui-Gon or Maul saying "gee, this deadly wall made from amplified light doesn't let me cut thru!"

Isn't there a place in the OT movies where Lando or somebody else uses the word "lasers" to refer to a common turbolaser/blaster thing?

[Slartibartfast]

Code: Select all

Suddenly, a loud thump hits the side of the Falcon, causing it to lurch 
radically.  Chewie barks.  The tools fall into the pit on top of Han.

				HAN
		Oww!  Chewie!

More turbulence rocks the ship.

				HAN
		That was no laser blast!  Something 
		hit us.

No "turbo" used in that bit of dialogue either, and they're either talking about the ISD turbolasers or the TIE blaster cannons.

Since he talks about the laser blast, he means the bolt. Or would anyone try to argue that they were hit by the LASER beam that supposedly is used to burn blaster gas? (assuming such LASER even exists)

[Slartibartfast]

Code: Select all

				LEIA
		You came in that thing?  You're 
		braver that I thought.

				HAN
		Nice!  Come on!

Han gives her a dirty look, and they start off down the hallway.  They 
round a corner and run right into twenty Imperial stormtroopers heading 
toward them.  Both groups are taken by surprise and stop in their 
tracks.

				FIRST TROOPER
		It's them!  Blast them!

Before even thinking, Han draws his LASER PISTOL and charges the 
troops, firing.  His BLASTER knocks one of the stormtroopers into the 
air.  Chewie follows his captain down the corridor, stepping over the 
fallen trooper on the floor.

(emphasis mine, obviously)

Note that both terms are used in the same paragraph.

[Lord Edam]

It's extremely well thought-through, and should be self-evident:

So you have no official statement from LFL regarding screenplay overuling novellisations?

And there's no need for either to contradict the other in this case anyway - I've already explained it.

Regardless, the accepted heirarchy of canon is not fan-invented; it is the order used by Lucasfilm itself, as discussed extensively at http://www.starwarz.com/timeline/home.html

You'll note that nowhere in that (fan) page is there a quote stating novellisations overide script. Infact, it places the scripts novellisations and radio plays at the same level of canon, does it not?

Try headbutting a block of steel. Your head does not go straight through. Why? A wall of electrons.

So, electrons only stop you when they are dense enough to get in the way?

I have explained all canon evidence, and included offiical evidence. Try doing better and you might have something worth listening to.

[Lord Edam]

There is canon evidence that SW lasers are not lasers.

Which has alredy been covered, and is not a problem, and certainly not reason enough to ignore canon evidence.

[Lord Edam]

It's quite simple.

It's your opinion. You have not provided any official statement that the screen play overides the novellisation. They should be treated as equal. In this case, that isn't a problem, since I've already explained how both can be accepted (and added official information to it as well)

[Boba Fett]

LOL

Slartibartfast, you don't have to copy the whole script!

I think he already understand it!

Man, that took ages....

[Lord Edam]

Then Maul should have been able to deflect that entire "wall" away with his lightsaber, if it was made up of a simple "laser"

If he'd had a lightsabre big enough, and if he'd wanted to, maybe.

I see. So does "wall" mean something else to you people in Wales besides a physical barrier?

Wall needn't mean physical barrier. You can have a wall of water - but you can still walkthrough it (Getting wet, of course)

And the forcefields in Trek act this way as well.

OK, if youreally want to insist on it I'll conceed Trek forcefields are identical to the Theed forcefields in TPM. Lightsabres will be useless against Trek force fields (Which also makes them useless against Borg shields, since Seven of Nine used Borg shields to walk through Trek forcefields in raven). Guess MoO was entirely wrong in his post then. Oh well.

Funny, they do it in Trek all the time.

Providing specific examples would make your fantasies a little more believable, Wayne

But they DON"T LOOK THAT DIFFERENT, which stays right in your ballpark, Sparky.

TPM forcefields: are called lasers, act like we know lasers can act.
Trek phasers: are never called dustbusters, never act as we know dustbusters can act.

Two totally different things, Wayne

[Connor MacLeod]

There is canon evidence that SW lasers are not lasers.

Which has alredy been covered, and is not a problem, and certainly not reason enough to ignore canon evidence.

So you admit that there's no justification to your argument? About fucking time Cheesefuck.

[Lord Edam]

You've said "It says they're lasers, so they're lasers" and cited examples as to why they MIGHT. You have yet to prove that there is any canonical evidence that those "lasers" were photonic in nature.

Either we accept they are lasers or we redefine laser. There's no need to redefine laser.

Meanwhile, we have provided ample proof they are electron in nature

Proof of equal canonicity as the laser quote, and already explained, even including additional EU sources. This does not prevent them being lasers.

as well as official proof substantiating that.

You have not provided a single EU quote describing the shields as electrons. Infact, the only official quote you provided regarding the shields stated they were lasers. There is, however, official reference explaining why there can't be a deadly amount of electrons present in your wall of electrons.

And more importantly, you cannot demand burden of proof from ME to explain how the shield works with involving electrons when you have not made any effort to satisfy the burden of proof in proving they are photonic lasers (something other than your meaningless speculation and interpreations, that is.)

Lasers are, by definition, photonic. I have explained it all, but you refuse to accept it, prefering instead to increase the burden of proof. Why nto just admit you have no intention of accepting anything and leave it at that? I'm sure Wong won't mind if you jsut reply to everything with "+1", since that seems to be the entire purpose of most of your posts.

The Darth Maul Shadow Hunter quote? So now you're trying to use EU to override canon?

Nope, I'm using EU and canon together. I've taken everything at face value here. You, however, have insisted we re-define words.

Read the quotes I provided fuckwit. It says nothing about using lasers to energize the gas. It only says they use a power charge. Yet more manipulation of evidence.

Power which comes from the laser. You do know lasers contain power, don't you connor?

Again, you're basing your argument on evidence you misrepresented.

I'm not misrepresenting anything here. It is clear they use lasers internally, and that is where the name comes from. Now, if you want to prove the lasers are NOT photonic we might be able to get back on track rather than simply padding our post counts.

I'm not saying the canon sources are wrong,

You're saying the canon sources don't mean lasers when they say lasers - ie, the canon sources are wrong.

I'm saying you're wrong. you do not qualify as a canon source. The canon sources say electrons. Edam says lasers. Canon > Edam. Live with it, dipshit.

And now you add ignoring canon to your idiocy. Canon sources say they are lasers. I quote canon sources saying they are lasers, yet my quotes are wrong?

And as stated canon > EU. Prove that they're photon lasers with canon proof from the movies or other canon sources.

You are the one insisting lasers are not lasers. You are the one redefining the english language. You provide the proof. I've done all I need to do.

from one of your posts on page one (EGWT p80)

The laser actuator combines high energy blaster gas with a large power charge. (The Actuator's prismatic crystal produces the high energy beam of charged particles coupled with light.)"


hmm..take a high powered laser, combine with blaster gas. Get charged particles out. Seems your own quotes prove lasers are used to energise gases.

No, it says "Large power charge". It doesn't say laser, dipshit.
[/quote]

Where does the power charge from from? The laser (it's either the laser, or some unknown, and you should never add unknowns without very good reason)

1.) You have assumed that laser MUST mean photonic laser even though there is no proof suggesting photons are involved and there is evidence suggesting it isn't.

Alternative is to re-define laser. If you want to start redefine the english language you can provide the proof for that change. They are described as lasers. They are also described as electrons. I've explained how both can be accepted without changing the meaning of words. You won't accept it, because then you'd lose the change to pad your post count further.

Everything you've said in your post has been a repetition of what you said earlier. You clearly have no intention of dealing with what I have written, and will instead reply with more demands for proof that words haven't been redefined. If that's the case don't bother replying. I have no intention of supporting your obsession with increasing your post count further.

[Lord Edam]

So, according to you, the field is like a weak thin membrane,

No, the field is what it is stated to be. Anything else is your desperate attempts to find a flaw in my claims by re-writing them to something you have an easier time with.

Maul did not try to push his blade all the way through the field - he touched it. Anything else is supposition.

Fighter craft weapons aren't turbolasers, they are called Blasters or Lasers interchangeably. And turbolasers are also sometimes called lasers for short. Concession accepted.

Weapons that are all based on similar principles - ie, use a laser internally. Give that concession back.

Ah, so you argue that the bullets aren't rifled, but that the phaser rifles must have rifled barrels that make the bullet spin. Nitpicky but a concession anyway.

Sorry, I assumed you have the intelligence to think it through properly. If phaser rifle barrels are rifled then it is to make the phaser particles spin in the beam. You can give that concession back as well.

Oh, so he tapped on it.

Strawman. He touched the field. You can keep changing my claims as much as you want, but all you are doing is ignoring canon. The fields are lasers. Live with it, or prove lasers aren't lasers. That's another concession you need to return to its rightful owner.

[Lord Edam]

This is from the screenplay. It uses the word blaster and laser interchangeably. Proof that laser is a slang (sp?) word.

Or, as already explained, some weapons use lasers in their activation process, which is why they are called lasers. In TPM, the lasers are specifically described as what makes up the fields.

You've quoted this several times but continue to ignore it - wouldn't be trying to increase your post count would you?

oh, three more posts that are basically the same - why not just post "+1" and be done with it?

[The Dude]

So you have no official statement from LFL regarding screenplay overuling novellisations?

Why have you evaded the question of whether the scripts logically override the novelisations? At least have the balls to come right out and say that you think the novelizations should have equal or superior standing to GL's scripts and back it up with, well, anything.

And there's no need for either to contradict the other in this case anyway - I've already explained it.

You have acknowledged that they are, in fact, electron beams?

You'll note that nowhere in that (fan) page is there a quote stating novellisations overide script. Infact, it places the scripts novellisations and radioplays at the same level of canon, does it not?

Did you even read it? The scripts appear in 2nd level canon, and the novelizations not until the 3rd.

Try headbutting a block of steel. Your head does not go straight through. Why? A wall of electrons.

So, electrons only stop you when they are dense enough to get in the way?

Density has virtually nothing to do with it - force does. If the motion of the electrons is constrained (by, say, the electric charges in a solid metal or by an electric field), then they will "feel" solid. This really is basic physics, Edam. Do try to keep up.

I have explained all canon evidence, and included offiical evidence. Try doing better and you might have something worth listening to.

You have explained it, but incorrectly. The highest level of canon available calls them electron rays. Other posters have demonstrated the extensive use of 'laser' as a purely colloquial term throughout SW. IOW, your house of cards has fallen.

[The Dude]

So you have no official statement from LFL regarding screenplay overuling novellisations?

Why have you evaded the question of whether the scripts logically override the novelisations? At least have the balls to come right out and say that you think the novelizations should have equal or superior standing to GL's scripts and back it up with, well, anything.

And there's no need for either to contradict the other in this case anyway - I've already explained it.

You have acknowledged that they are, in fact, electron beams?

You'll note that nowhere in that (fan) page is there a quote stating novellisations overide script. Infact, it places the scripts novellisations and radioplays at the same level of canon, does it not?

Did you even read it? The scripts appear in 2nd level canon, and the novelizations not until the 3rd.

Try headbutting a block of steel. Your head does not go straight through. Why? A wall of electrons.

So, electrons only stop you when they are dense enough to get in the way?

Density has virtually nothing to do with it - force does. If the motion of the electrons is constrained (by, say, the electric charges in a solid metal or by an electric field), then they will "feel" solid. This really is basic physics, Edam. Do try to keep up.

I have explained all canon evidence, and included offiical evidence. Try doing better and you might have something worth listening to.

You have explained it, but incorrectly. The highest level of canon available unequivocally calls them electron rays - rendering the rest of the discussion moot.

Regardless, other posters have demonstrated the extensive use of 'laser' as a colloquial term throughout SW, and you have utterly failed to explain why the field is rigid to the touch of Maul's lightsaber.

IOW, your house of cards has fallen.

[The Dude]

This site is intended as a resource for the contributors to one of the saddest newsgroups on Usenet - alt.startrek.vs.starwars. The purpose of the group is to discuss what would happen in a confrontation between the two fictional universes Star Trek and Star Wars. The arguments and information provided on this site adhere as much as possible to the rules and accepted practices of the newsgroup, available [at www.asvs.org]. It is recommended that you read these before questioning anything on this site.

Sound familiar?

How about this:

Canon sources cannot be overridden by anything, period. These are the movies, scripts of the movies, novelizations of the movies, and the radio dramas -- in that order.

Even if this weren't also the policy of Lucasfilm Licensing, it is the accepted policy of SD.net, ASVS and, by extension, your own site. Your sudden rejection of the canon heirarchy in order to avoid conceding a single point is as pathetic as it is transparent.

[Lord Edam]

Why have you evaded the question of whether the scripts logically override the novelisations?

Because that makes it your interpretation of the canon policy, not canon policy itself.

I mean, lets look at it logically - the books are based on the scripts, so the scripts are superior to the books. The films are based on the scripts so the scripts are superior to the film - logically identical, but known to be wrong.

You have acknowledged that they are, in fact, electron beams?

I've acknowledged that there is an electron component which need not be deadly. The lasers are deadly. The electrons are a side effect (And that's only if you insist on accepting the subjective description over the objective one. Take the objective one, and the electrons are just the wild thoughts of a Jedi padawan watching his mentor get killed)

Did you even read it? The scripts appear in 2nd level canon, and the novelizations not until the 3rd.

You're right - I misread it. The scripts for the original versions of the films are placed at the same level as the novellisations in that fan page.

You're still looking at fan interpretation of canon levels though. I could just as easily write a web page putting the novellisations higher than the scripts, and without an official statement it would be similarly useless.

So, electrons only stop you when they are dense enough to get in the way?

Density has virtually nothing to do with it - force does.

The force the block exerts on your head will be dependent on the number of electrons in the area - ie, the density.

BTW, how about proving the electrons in the wall were confined enough to actually exert a large physical force, since that is the obvious conclusion to what your reasoning.

[Lord Edam]

Even if this weren't also the policy of Lucasfilm Licensing, it is the accepted policy of SD.net, ASVS and, by extension, your own site. Your sudden rejection of the canon heirarchy in order to avoid conceding a single point is as pathetic as it is transparent.

As I said,

I've been thinking about this on and off for a while, and I don't think it's particularly thought through

Having thought about it some more, I realise that there is no official difference between the scripts, the novellisation and the radio play. They are all pretty much the same, canon under the films.

I know ASVS deals with the canon policy as laid down by the respective franchise holders, so your fan-created levels cannot apply there (irrespective of what other websites say - you'll note www.asvs.org does not explain that infinities are disallowed and that sources closer to the films have greater authority, even though that is clearly stated in various official LFL statements. It also specifically excludes games, altought LFL have made it clear that games are admissable as long as you ignore game mechanics)

I thought stardestroyer.net always tended towards the policy of the respective franchises as well, but if you say the BBS defines the rules differently then that is their choice.

Of course, in every case of stratification of canon there is normally a caveat during analysis - include as many sources of all levels as possible. My claims use many sources of all levels in a logical and reasonable manner, and works irrespective of what hierarchy you choose. Those objecting to my claims provide alternatives where numerous sources must be ignored or re-defined.

This isn't a sudden rejection of the hierarchy to avoid conceeding the point - this is the first time it's really come up enough for me to speak up about it.

[Slartibartfast]

LOL

Slartibartfast, you don't have to copy the whole script!

It's only two quotes from ANH and one from TESB.

I think he already understand it!

Really? Doesn't seem so.

Man, that took ages....

Only about 10 min including breaks, did a websearch for the script.