What would you hope to see in a/the live action series?

[adam_grif]

It would just be dismissed as non-canon on the grounds that its overruled by the films.

How so? The asteroid destruction in TESB yielded a figure in the low KT range. This is supposedly a "light" TL (Not stated in the films, actually, but benefit of the doubt), but there's no reason that we automatically assume that "heavy" is GT based on this. If a live action TV show were to come out and say something like "Our biggest guns are 100 KT theoretical max!" then that might actually be considered higher canon than the fiction that discusses BDZ operations, second only to the films.

[NecronLord]

Things I want to see:

Protagonists

• Nobodies. It’s important that the protagonists are comparative nobodies, no jedi please. The model of ‘Firefly’ would be a good one to follow especially with SW's existing emphasis on tramp freighters in various media.
• At least one droid of a new type and design.
• At least one alien of a new species.
• A former clone-trooper of one or another line perhaps?

Background

• The Emperor: Ian McDiarmid is an excellent actor, and affordable on a TV budget. Just cutting in some segments with him on holoprojectors or news broadcasts would be excellent. It’s also important to establish that he’s everywhere – actual dictatorships always emphasize the Leader in people’s lives.
• The view expressed in the original SW Novellisation that “good Emperor Palpatine” is misled by his ministers. Bonus points for "If only the Emperor knew, he would put a stop to this!"
• Something about the Imperial Senate.
• Original worlds, oh god please. I must resign myself that Tatooine will appear, but more original planets please.

Antagonists
The motherfucking Empire. I don’t want to see Imperials ‘defending their galaxy’ I want to see them being goddamn dickheads to everyone.

[Elfdart]

Things I want to see:

Protagonists

• Nobodies. It’s important that the protagonists are comparative nobodies, no jedi please. The model of ‘Firefly’ would be a good one to follow especially with SW's existing emphasis on tramp freighters in various media.
• At least one droid of a new type and design.
• At least one alien of a new species.
• A former clone-trooper of one or another line perhaps?

Background

• The Emperor: Ian McDiarmid is an excellent actor, and affordable on a TV budget. Just cutting in some segments with him on holoprojectors or news broadcasts would be excellent. It’s also important to establish that he’s everywhere – actual dictatorships always emphasize the Leader in people’s lives.
• The view expressed in the original SW Novellisation that “good Emperor Palpatine” is misled by his ministers. Bonus points for "If only the Emperor knew, he would put a stop to this!"
• Something about the Imperial Senate.
• Original worlds, oh god please. I must resign myself that Tatooine will appear, but more original planets please.

Antagonists
The motherfucking Empire. I don’t want to see Imperials ‘defending their galaxy’ I want to see them being goddamn dickheads to everyone.

I agree on all points except the first one. I wouldn't mind a Jedi popping up as long as the show doesn't revolve around him or her, and they get killed off.

[The Romulan Republic]

I know its not likely to happen, but I would like to see the novel Dark Lord adapted as a multi-episode arc. Its my very favorite EU novel, and it fits fairly well with what Lucas has said this show will be about.

[Sarevok]

1 ) I would like to see a show heavily inspired by Firefly, Deep Space Nine and babylon 5. No famous main characters. But the background universe would feel rich and alive. Ditch the overdone rebellion vs empire aspect. Make the show about diverse people and factions from across the galaxy interacting.

2 ) At same time this would not be a soap opera. Main characters would be our eyes into a galaxy going through a pivotal part of its history.

3) Take cues from nBSG when handling filming space combat scenes. I want to see a SW capship in battle with all the CiC drama and tactical chess games from finest military sci fi.

4) No emo angst. GENUINE scenes of grief and loss like Books death in Firefly. Not wangst found in nBSG.

5) Relatable. likeable and BELIEVABLE people. Not fantastically good looking sample of people from each age, gender and demographic range. Babylon 5 did not have many hot looking men and women in it. But it was better than modern shows about good looking people with mental issues and angst.

[NecronLord]

Perhaps I should have said 'Series Regulars' I've no objection to Jedi guest characters. Though they should either be established EU ones, or die; we already have more than enough Purge survivors.

Also on the list of uses I'd like to see, depending on the setting, I don't imagine they'd pop up immediately some of the Imperial Dark Siders, if a personally-powerful Imperial leader is called for; along the lines of (to continue the analogy) the Operative from Serenity in role. Vader would obviously be appropriate if available, but if you can't get James Earl Jones, you may as well not bother, otherwise some lesser Dark Sider would do the concept's been done quite well several times, Cronal/Shadowspawn springs to mind. Such Imperial Dark Siders are not to be called Inquisitors. That just pains me slightly.

Obviously such characters should definitely not be killed off like chumps.


As for large scale space-combat, I'd rather not follow a warship crew, but it would be interesting to see a BSG-esque take (though with more bridge windows!) on Star Wars ships. perhaps characters could be briefly caught up in a separatist holdout or minor state (like the Corporate Sector Authority or the Hapans) defending itself from the Empire. Perhaps the Hutts at war with the Empire? That'd be an interesting 'moral dilemma' for who to support, and broadening Hutt society would be quite good.

Of course, if you really wanted to duplicate Galactica, you could use a Venator.

[Mr Bean]

I'd agree on all points except the last one NecronLord. I'd like split in the Empire. Between the branches of the Empire. Lots of the Empire after all were simply re-purposed parts of the Old Republic. So maybe the planetary security forces are decent cops on the beat. But the Imperial Storm-trooper Battalion they can call on and it's Imperial Army officers are huge motherfucking dicks to everyone. Or the reverse you have a Moff somewhere who's cares about his system, restrains his more psychotic followers but once you break the law he's merciless. If we embrace the tramp freighter crew it's a great turn on him being polite cultured person only to find out said tramp freighter was smuggling a rebel (They did not know he was a rebel just a wanted criminal or vice versa). The sort of idealized despot, as long as you don't break the rules you have nothing to fear.

Besides what better bit of fun then to have an Imperial Star Destroyer to jump in and save our plucky crew from a Pirate Gang only to have them arrested and tossed in the brig when they discover contraband on board. Besides think of the fun of it looking like it's in the shit. Our heroes are captured, possible rape is on the menu and a lifetime (A short lifetime) of working as the pirates slaves only to be saved by a company of Stormtroopers. There brought back, cared for, provided medical treatment, get their ship back but uh oh crewman X is ID'd as wanted so they are all tossed in prison (again) with death on the horizon.

*Edit and we can always do the episode later on where the Imperials only sit and scoff and give two shits about Piracy suppression.

[The Romulan Republic]

Also on the list of uses I'd like to see, depending on the setting, I don't imagine they'd pop up immediately some of the Imperial Dark Siders, if a personally-powerful Imperial leader is called for; along the lines of (to continue the analogy) the Operative from Serenity in role. Vader would obviously be appropriate if available, but if you can't get James Earl Jones, you may as well not bother, otherwise some lesser Dark Sider would do the concept's been done quite well several times, Cronal/Shadowspawn springs to mind. Such Imperial Dark Siders are not to be called Inquisitors. That just pains me slightly.

Two words: Mara. Jade.

[NecronLord]

She's not yet been born in this timeframe.

[The Romulan Republic]

Edit: I think I misread the thread.

As far as I know, there's no clear date. Just "between Episode III and Episode IV," pretty much.

Further edit: I did a little Google searching, and it turns out that according to Wookieepedia, Mara was born in 17 BBY. So its possible to fit her in, but she'd be pretty young, unless they overrode EU continuity.

[Azron_Stoma]

I agree with Mr Bean, having the Empire be "Always Lawful Evil" to paraphrase a trope is a bad idea imo and makes them too one dimensional. While I can understand a fear of it becoming too supporting of apologist views trying to skew the Empire into being the good guys. There should be at least some "good" Imperials who may or may not later defect.

Besides, if it's set between Episodes III and IV it's a perfect opportunity to show both sides of the Imperial coin, I remember them talking about making 3 spinoff series to run concurrently with the main one. How that's going to work with a decent budget I have no idea. Wouldn't mind it if one of the spinoff series was all about the Empire. The general tone for the it be something akin to DS9's "For the Uniform" or "In the Pale moonlight" in terms of "ends justifying the means" type mentalities, but also showing how dangerous that way of thinking can be, and while at the end of the day they have achieved a good thing, they did some rather questionable things at best along the way, or outright committed crimes against human(oid)ity.

[Sarevok]

The Peacekeepers from Farscape seem inspired by the Empire. I would love it if the Imperials are portrayed like them. Unmatched in field of battle, feared by non humans and at same time seeing themselves as keepers of peace and order.

[Azron_Stoma]

Yeah, that's pretty much what they are, and especially since the Rebels aren't going to be winning against the Empire any time soon, since ANH stated that the battle that got them the Death Star plans was the first battle they ever won.

[Azron_Stoma]

Also I wouldn't mind seeing some more extreme Rebels that are more like terrorists than the plucky freedom fighters we are used to, like Garm Bel Iblis who I recall was a radical militant Rebel that never got along all that well with Mon Mothma due to his extreme methods and lack of distinguishing civilian and military targets (An Imperial is an Imperial as far as he's concerned). Again not to make the Rebels out to be Evil while the Imperials are good, but to show that not everyone on either side is unilaterally good or evil.

Not complete moral ambiguity either. (The Empire are still the bad guys when all is said and done, just as the Rebels are still the good guys. But because their groups are so large there are bound to be some bad apples and diamonds in the rough respectively. The main difference being that the Rebellion Leadership with Mon Mothma is good while the Imperial leadership... well... Not so much.

As long as it doesn't turn into some ham fisted 9/11 analogies, of course parallels of that nature are bound to happen in this sort of thing be they intentional or not.

[NecronLord]

The Peacekeepers from Farscape seem inspired by the Empire. I would love it if the Imperials are portrayed like them. Unmatched in field of battle, feared by non humans and at same time seeing themselves as keepers of peace and order.

They are inspired by common elements, but there's no reason to think the Peacekeepers are inspired by the Empire. They have elements in common with (RL) spartans, and the USSR (their symbol is adapted from a famous USSR propaganda piece entitled 'Beat the Whites with the Red Wedge'). PK officer uniform is based off 20s era USSR navy officer's uniforms, IIRC.

And neither the Empire nor the Peacekeepers are unmatched in battle.

[NecronLord]

Also I wouldn't mind seeing some more extreme Rebels that are more like terrorists than the plucky freedom fighters we are used to, like Garm Bel Iblis who I recall was a radical militant Rebel that never got along all that well with Mon Mothma due to his extreme methods and lack of distinguishing civilian and military targets (An Imperial is an Imperial as far as he's concerned). Again not to make the Rebels out to be Evil while the Imperials are good, but to show that not everyone on either side is unilaterally good or evil.

This undermines the original trilogy. If you want bad rebels, make them unaffiliated with the Alliance to Restore the Republic. I feel that the Rebel Alliance should be outright good guys.

[Darksider]

This undermines the original trilogy. If you want bad rebels, make them unaffiliated with the Alliance to Restore the Republic. I feel that the Rebel Alliance should be outright good guys.[/quote]

I think having an ep where the Rebel heroes have to stop a fanatical anti-imperial terrorist (possibly a former member of the Alliance who got kicked out for being too extreme) from massacring a bunch of loyalist civillians while still hiding from heavy-handed (but useless) Imperials might be interesting, but there shouldn't be a "gritty" character who only lives to kill imperials and is still part of the Alliance. The closest we've seen to that is Escol Loro from the X-wing comics, and IIRC nobody liked her.

[Darth Yan]

garik loran of the eu was kidnapped by radical rebels (they were booted out of the rebel alliance for being to extreme.) I remember how in avatar the last airbender one of the episodes had precisely the plot device azron mentioned (even though they are sympathetic, the heros ultimately thwart the plan because they can't tolerate the killing of innocents.) Maybe a similar event could be covered in the star wars eu.

[Darth Hoth]

I would really love to see a depiction of the Empire that is not cartoonish. I by no mean demand that they make them good guys, but could they please refrain at least a little from: 1) Idiocy and 2) Evil for the lulz? The EU give more than enough of either.

Even Nazis or Commies in real life are not (generally) evil for the sake of it. Faceless evil "Just doing my job" is entirely how the Empire should be portrayed. As little as possible of "Mwahahah, you've always been a loyal retainer of mine, and now I'll just betray you and kill your entire family and everyone you know in front of your eyes and film it to jerk off to later just because I can!"

Otherwise:

*I know that this is a vain dream, but I would also really like the series to give a shit about the EU and not actively work to destroy established continuity. Unlike with the cartoon series, there is established material in this era that I do care about for other reasons than versus arguments.

Also, emphasise consistency with the OT. Not the prequels or their various derivatives.

*Similarly, I would like if they could actually use some kind of consistent standards for their technology. Even if it is excessively low (by vs standards). In the films no one bothered, but there was little enough footage that this did not become an irritant. In a long series, it very probably will. (As it did in the cartoon.)

They could use the ICS, but they could also use the ST:TNG Technical Manual for all I care. Just establish a set of numbers and keep to those (broadly).

Of course, as a VS debater I would by no means be opposed to high numbers, but the consistency would be the main issue.

*Please, please, God, show as little of combat or military matters as possible. It will be horribly screwed up no matter what they do. (And then I mean, not just in a VS sense, but enough to kill SoD in the non-VS sense. For me, I experienced this at numerous points in the PT, cartoons, and the Battle of Hoth in tESB when the walkers turned up.)

***

In other words, the less direct involvement from "Evil" the series has, the better.

[Darth Hoth]

It would just be dismissed as non-canon on the grounds that its overruled by the films.

How so? The asteroid destruction in TESB yielded a figure in the low KT range. This is supposedly a "light" TL (Not stated in the films, actually, but benefit of the doubt), but there's no reason that we automatically assume that "heavy" is GT based on this. If a live action TV show were to come out and say something like "Our biggest guns are 100 KT theoretical max!" then that might actually be considered higher canon than the fiction that discusses BDZ operations, second only to the films.

It would still just be fallible dialogue, though. It is not enough to say that the guy "obviously" misspoke, but it is not waterproof kill-off of SW as a versus contender, either. (Although it will inevitably be misrepresented as just that on SB and SFJ.) A multiplicity of examples of higher firepower (sometimes much higher) in other sources could still be considered "superior" in terms of evidence, especially if these are actual examples showing consequences rather than mere numbers.

All the "old" arguments (energy requirements for moving ISD-like masses, scaling from the DS, and such) would also still apply, of course.

It would be interesting if there was a switch in the TV show between the Imperials and the Rebels-the Imperials are fairly decent people who want to keep the peace while the Rebels are ruthless "end justify the means" fanatics who don't mind massive civilian casualties in attacks against the Imperials.

I agree, that would be awesome (and as NecronLord says, undermine the OT). It is not something anyone vaguely realistic will expect, though.

One thing that they need to decide is if Star Wars is going to be kid thing, or if it is going to be a serious show for grown-ups. Lucas seems to constantly go back and forth on this. A lot of slapstick has been introduced to keep the sugar and ADD crowd interested, which detracts from the whole thing, IMO.

Endorsed, with all mine heart and soul.

[The Romulan Republic]

*I know that this is a vain dream, but I would also really like the series to give a shit about the EU and not actively work to destroy established continuity. Unlike with the cartoon series, there is established material in this era that I do care about for other reasons than versus arguments.

Also, emphasise consistency with the OT. Not the prequels or their various derivatives.

Ah, so when you say "consistency with the EU," you mean "consistency with those parts of the EU I like, while ignoring the higher-canon Prequel films."

Of course, as a VS debater I would by no means be opposed to high numbers, but the consistency would be the main issue.

As a Vs debater, I would be perfectly happy with low numbers, because it would make things more interesting again. There isn't much of a debate these days.

*Please, please, God, show as little of combat or military matters as possible. It will be horribly screwed up no matter what they do. (And then I mean, not just in a VS sense, but enough to kill SoD in the non-VS sense. For me, I experienced this at numerous points in the PT, cartoons, and the Battle of Hoth in tESB when the walkers turned up.)

A Star Wars show where they don't show combat? Not going to happen.

[Darth Yan]

i like that there isn't a debate. it means that we won and trek lost.

[Srelex]

If they do ahead, I imagine that big battles, be they in space or planetside, will be reserved for season finales and the like, given that concerns over budget have already been expressed. For the most part, we're more likely to get things on the level of bar fights or street skirmishes, which will probably make for interesting small arms analysis if anything.

[Darth Hoth]

Ah, so when you say "consistency with the EU," you mean "consistency with those parts of the EU I like, while ignoring the higher-canon Prequel films."

You somewhat conflated two points that were related, but not one and the same. Spelled out more clearly, my opinion is something like this:

*I want some consistency with what the OT EU has established. They do not need to use anything from it to make me happy, but I would really, really love it if they did not seem to outright aim to run roughshod over it, like the cartoon series people have done with the stories of that era.

*At the same time, my preference in terms of style, theme and general "feel" of the universe lies firmly with the more toned-down (relatively speaking) atmosphere of the OT, rather than the garishly cartoonish PT. They should connect the series with the former, not the latter, in my book.

And, yes, who really gives a shit if some garishly outlandish and stupid cartoon is "higher canon" than the ancient but decent RPG books and novels which I like, but which the kiddie fans of the PT have never heard about? I still prefer the latter. This is a matter of personal preference, not official policy, and I prefaced the paragraph you quoted with a disclaimer that these hopes of mine are hardly realistic. But even "Evil" cannot take away from a man his dreams about the franchise.

A Star Wars show where they don't show combat? Not going to happen.

I am aware of this, of course. Still, I would hope that they would keep it down to a small scale and involve professional troops as little as possible; say, using FireFly as a model, as others have proposed already. Have bar-room brawls, shoot-outs, drive-bys. Fight the criminal elements of the galactic underworld. Maybe occasionally have Imperial police or Stormtroopers hounding the heroes down a lane, or TIEs chasing their freighter as they flee away from the planet-of-the-week under interdiction. But no large CGI crapfests with Stormtroopers using Napoleonic tactics, please.

[Darth Hoth]

As a Vs debater, I would be perfectly happy with low numbers, because it would make things more interesting again. There isn't much of a debate these days.

Sorry, edited this one out of my reply for some reason.

Well, you can always debate other universes closer to either SW or ST against each other. Going by SpaceBattles, most of the old VS crowd seems to have shifted over to Star Wars vs Warhammer.