What advantages do the AT-ST give the Empire?

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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Gil Hamilton wrote:Wait a second... the AT-ST has all sorts of mechanisms in it's feet and legs, they are much more complex than wheels. It's legs and feet are filled to the scuppers with stuff that keeps the AT-ST upright. Also, we can see from the ICS diagram that the AT-STs legs are barely armored at all, like the rest of it. Also, many of its actuators exposed, alot of which is at ground level, like it's ankle joint assembly. You blow a hole in the legs of that thing, and it's going down.
:sigh: The point is they don't have moving axles and gear-shifts right there less than a meter off the ground. According to ICS the only thing there is ground-sensors, and it is suggested the AT-ST measures ground surfaces for efficiency and minute adjustment. The entire AT-AT leg is described as "heavy armor" and again only has ground sensors, as opposed to the absolutely necessary moving parts in a wheel axle and gear system. The ankle joint increases mobility but the walker can probably hobble on it--the locomotive moving parts are in the knees, mostly. And the ankles still have a meter of air and armor between them and the ground. That versus less than a meter between a mine and the wheel-well of the armored vehicle.
Gil Hamilton wrote:The tanks couldn't advance through the shield. If they tried to advance on the Gungans, they'd run over their own battledroids, which they deployed in rank and file directly in front of their own armor.
Perhaps they did so because they could recieve no armored support? How come droid infantry could be deployed with armor when the shield went down? You're assuming that isn't possible, and that's demonstrably untrue. Furthermore, the NEGtVV suggests flanking armored groups were dispatched--none of them entered the fray either in TPM.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Illuminatus Primus wrote::sigh: The point is they don't have moving axles and gear-shifts right there less than a meter off the ground. According to ICS the only thing there is ground-sensors, and it is suggested the AT-ST measures ground surfaces for efficiency and minute adjustment. The entire AT-AT leg is described as "heavy armor" and again only has ground sensors, as opposed to the absolutely necessary moving parts in a wheel axle and gear system. The ankle joint increases mobility but the walker can probably hobble on it--the locomotive moving parts are in the knees, mostly. And the ankles still have a meter of air and armor between them and the ground. That versus less than a meter between a mine and the wheel-well of the armored vehicle.
Actually, they do have actuators and elaborate moving parts less than a meter from the ground. The AT-STs ankle assembly and where the foot connects to the ground is all less that a meter from the ground. And once again, you keep changing what mecha we are talking about. We are talking about the AT-ST, yet you keep on trying to use the AT-AT for evidence. The AT-ST very clearly needs it's ankle joints to walk. Can you walk without using your ankles? It would be even harder for a chickenwalker, since it's already off-balance anyway.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Gil Hamilton wrote:Actually, they do have actuators and elaborate moving parts less than a meter from the ground. The AT-STs ankle assembly and where the foot connects to the ground is all less that a meter from the ground. And once again, you keep changing what mecha we are talking about. We are talking about the AT-ST, yet you keep on trying to use the AT-AT for evidence. The AT-ST very clearly needs it's ankle joints to walk. Can you walk without using your ankles? It would be even harder for a chickenwalker, since it's already off-balance anyway.
I direct you to the slat armor again. The entire point is to hold the moving parts as high as possible, because directed blasts very rapidly diffuse by orders of magnitude, and harmlessly scortch hull.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I direct you to the slat armor again. The entire point is to hold the moving parts as high as possible, because directed blasts very rapidly diffuse by orders of magnitude, and harmlessly scortch hull.
The AT-ST doesn't have the Stryker's slat armor. Its legs aren't that armored at all. Plus, it's got plenty of moving parts close to the ground, because it's legs contain most the moving parts in the entire machine. Besides, if it's a directed blast, it's not going to dissipate so rapidly as a spherical explosion.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:I direct you to the slat armor again. The entire point is to hold the moving parts as high as possible, because directed blasts very rapidly diffuse by orders of magnitude, and harmlessly scortch hull.
The AT-ST doesn't have the Stryker's slat armor. Its legs aren't that armored at all. Plus, it's got plenty of moving parts close to the ground, because it's legs contain most the moving parts in the entire machine. Besides, if it's a directed blast, it's not going to dissipate so rapidly as a spherical explosion.
You totally missed the point with slat armor and directed blasts. Look up what I was talking about.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:You totally missed the point with slat armor and directed blasts. Look up what I was talking about.
Nice dodge, but it isn't going to work. Now answer the question. Where is the stat armor on the AT-STs legs. A bomb blast going off under the AT-ST is going to hit the legs first, since they are directly between the AT-STs body and the bomb. The AT-STs legs do not have stat armor to force the explosion to happen away from their mass, they are going to be hit directly by it. I'll scan a picture of the AT-ST right now if you point out where this armor is on the AT-STs legs. Deal?

Judging from your above point, I bet you'll argue that I've got the principles of stat armor working for me, since the blast will defuse significantly if it's spherical between where it went off and the beginning of my body. Unfortunately, my legs are going to get blown off in the process, since they are directly in the way...
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Uh. The point of slat armor is simply to detonate the focused charge away from vital components. The blast from an RPG sends a hole smaller than a pencil through even lighter armored plating. A similar focused-charge is going to detonate under the foot and lose its destructive coherency by the time it travels over a meter or so through exotic metal and then air before reaching the ankle joint. The slat armor itself has precisely nothing to do with the point, the point is that six inches of air totally dissipates the destructive pencil-thin jet of plasma in modern RPGs, and you expect a similar SW focused blast to go through a meter and a half of air and SW-type metals while maintaining more coherency than a blaster bolt, as we know from ROTJ that they don't seem to be effective against walker joints.

Now if you're dealing with explosives which can maintain a focused blast beyond several meters significantly more powerful than infantry small arms' bolts, well then that's going to tear into the axle in a wheel or track well. If it is a spherical blast which is more intense than infantry blasters at several meters diameter, its not going to make a difference what kind of vehicle it is.

Moreover, AT-STs can be and are transported by AT-ATs, and walkers can step over and around mines where wheeled and tracked vehicles simply can't.

No, walkers are not perfect. But locomotive systems are better protected and avoided against mines in Marine walker armor than in a similar tank or wheeled vehicle.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Um.
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Where is the meter of heavy exotic metal and air before the ankle assembly? Especially when it takes a step forward? The foot pad isn't even directly between the ankle and the ground. Besides, the foot pad is full of gizmos and sensors, not a solid piece of metal anyway.
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Solid metal is actually contrary to armor purposes. Chobham is made of composites and RHA steel, with almost certainly a space between plates thrown in to allow for plasma jet expansion. The spaces will tend to dissipate the coherency of the blast.

And yeah, there's a meter of air or so between the ankle joint and the ground. The fall of the foot pedal will trigger the blast...how would this hurt the ankle joint, behind the pad?

And if it is proximity, it will have to be very powerful to have mid-MJ level yields after a meter of expansion. That's expensive, and will doom the axles of a wheel down there with the upblast as much as the ankle joint. Also remember that legs can avoid and change gait to avoid mines easier than wheels or tracks, and that the AT-STs will probably follow in the lead of AT-ATs, or be transported by the in highly dense fields.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Look at the scale of the AT-ST to the pilots, there is most certainly less than a meter of air between the ankle and the ground. Besides, if the footpad gets blown up it can't walk anyway. Even if the footpad is damaged, it probably won't be able to walk, since all the sensors it requires to say balance just got blown out, not to mention the foot is missing pieces now.

I don't see how a proximity bomb with real power like you talk about is that expensive. With StarWars technology and power generation, they should be a dime a dozen.

Also, where exactly is an AT-AT going to carry the AT-STs? Not inside them, there isn't enough room. Thanks to the ICS we can see the inside of an AT-AT and the insides are about the size of a doubledecker bus. And even if it can carry AT-STs, why bother? You could just carry regular armored vehicles then.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Gil Hamilton wrote:I don't see how a proximity bomb with real power like you talk about is that expensive. With StarWars technology and power generation, they should be a dime a dozen.
Yet they couldn't afford a single emplacement with that much power at Hoth?

And this wouldn't detonate in a wheel-well and kill it? And legs can still walk over stuff. I will admit that the AT-ST is perhaps the stuipidist walker they have. The Marine walker armor does have a purpose which isn't well served by traditional armor. The heavier and shielded AT-XT would be a better choice, plus its fire-support was superior; like a modern HMMWV. The AT-ST may be the result of cost-cutting.
Gil Hamilton wrote:Thanks to the ICS we can see the inside of an AT-AT and the insides are about the size of a doubledecker bus. And even if it can carry AT-STs, why bother? You could just carry regular armored vehicles then.
The AT-STs fold. The AT-AT can transport 2. WEG has an illustration of this system.

And there are other mines than heavy anti-vehicle mines.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Yet they couldn't afford a single emplacement with that much power at Hoth?
The Rebels could afford a giant Stardestroyer frying ion cannon. Why couldn't they afford mines which produce trivial (by their standards) amounts of explosive energy? Besides, the Rebels at Echo Base didn't even bother with mines of any sort.
And this wouldn't detonate in a wheel-well and kill it? And legs can still walk over stuff. I will admit that the AT-ST is perhaps the stuipidist walker they have. The Marine walker armor does have a purpose which isn't well served by traditional armor. The heavier and shielded AT-XT would be a better choice, plus its fire-support was superior; like a modern HMMWV. The AT-ST may be the result of cost-cutting.
If it walks over it, it's legs or leg get blown off. That isn't much better than what would happen to a tank or HMMWV, since it caused the vehicle to fall over an become useless. At least a tank or HMMWV can still use it's weapon it it loses a tread or wheel. An AT-ST falling down can't even do that, assuming the pilots survive.

Also, the Empire mechas at Endor, where they had no mines to worry about (considering it was it's own base).
The AT-STs fold. The AT-AT can transport 2. WEG has an illustration of this system.

And there are other mines than heavy anti-vehicle mines.
So what if there are? They will kill an AT-ST just as dead as a tank or HMMWV. Plus, the AT-STs are mechas (and horribly designed mechas at that) so they've got all the same problems that mechas already have, making their worth questionable.

Besides, the Empire uses them everywhere. Every time we've seen the Imperial ground force, it uses mechas. You claim that mechas are for the express purpose of walking through minefields, but they were uses exclusively at Endor. It was the Empires own base, so they were already under the shield generator, meaning that they could use repulsorlifts. They didn't have a minefield to walk through, which is what you claim is what the walkers are for in the first place. Plus, the structure they were guarding was at that point on the most important in the Empire, since it was the shield generator protecting the spacestation that held the Emperor on it. So why was the "finest legions" in the Imperial Army using mechas then?
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Gil Hamilton wrote:The Rebels could afford a giant Stardestroyer frying ion cannon. Why couldn't they afford mines which produce trivial (by their standards) amounts of explosive energy? Besides, the Rebels at Echo Base didn't even bother with mines of any sort.
The U.S. Army has nuclear weapons. Oh wait, they nearly ran out of 5.56 NATO ammo for their rifles during Operation IRAQI FREEDOM.

The point was is that the Rebels are not well-equipped. They had to make sacrifices to get that ion cannon. Just because they got it doesn't mean all manner of cash is laying around.
Gil Hamilton wrote:If it walks over it, it's legs or leg get blown off. That isn't much better than what would happen to a tank or HMMWV, since it caused the vehicle to fall over an become useless. At least a tank or HMMWV can still use it's weapon it it loses a tread or wheel. An AT-ST falling down can't even do that, assuming the pilots survive.
And a mine so powerful it'd totally sheer off a foot would have to be immensely powerful, and self-clear the mines in its vacinity. You're talking about high MJ range blast of a couple meters and diameter. There's a lot of collateral.
Gil Hamilton wrote:Also, the Empire mechas at Endor, where they had no mines to worry about (considering it was it's own base).
Yeah, and it was a Marine base. Marines aren't assigned standard armor support.
Gil Hamilton wrote:So what if there are? They will kill an AT-ST just as dead as a tank or HMMWV. Plus, the AT-STs are mechas (and horribly designed mechas at that) so they've got all the same problems that mechas already have, making their worth questionable.
Wow, the HAB mantra. Why don't you analyze what is actually being said. Of course nothing's full-proof, but you keep using false dilemmas. Imperial walkers still hold their locomotive components like joints and drives further from enemy mines than axles and gears on tracked or wheeled vehicles. Obviously the technology is inferior in endurance, efficiency, cost, and a dozen other things, but that's not the point.
Gil Hamilton wrote:Besides, the Empire uses them everywhere. Every time we've seen the Imperial ground force, it uses mechas. You claim that mechas are for the express purpose of walking through minefields, but they were uses exclusively at Endor.
With Marines. The Imperial Army is larger and more extensive. Check WEG. The fact that the subjective and NR-biased literature chooses to depict the smaller and more specialized Marines is not my problem.
Gil Hamilton wrote:It was the Empires own base, so they were already under the shield generator, meaning that they could use repulsorlifts. They didn't have a minefield to walk through, which is what you claim is what the walkers are for in the first place. Plus, the structure they were guarding was at that point on the most important in the Empire, since it was the shield generator protecting the spacestation that held the Emperor on it. So why was the "finest legions" in the Imperial Army using mechas then?
Because Imperial Marines are always assigned walker armor. Why were their not a thousand defenses at Endor that would've made the difference? Politics; a dozen reasons means that the Marines got stuck virtually exclusively with their KDY specialized assault armor. But your bitching won't change what they are said to be designed for, and the fact they're almost entirely with Marines.

The Imperial Army uses more conventional armor.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The U.S. Army has nuclear weapons. Oh wait, they nearly ran out of 5.56 NATO ammo for their rifles during Operation IRAQI FREEDOM.

The point was is that the Rebels are not well-equipped. They had to make sacrifices to get that ion cannon. Just because they got it doesn't mean all manner of cash is laying around.
Fair enough.
And a mine so powerful it'd totally sheer off a foot would have to be immensely powerful, and self-clear the mines in its vacinity. You're talking about high MJ range blast of a couple meters and diameter. There's a lot of collateral.
Some colaterral yes, but it blows the legs of the walker, which is more important.
Yeah, and it was a Marine base. Marines aren't assigned standard armor support.
Wrong, ever single trooper there is wearing Imperial Army uniforms.
Wow, the HAB mantra. Why don't you analyze what is actually being said. Of course nothing's full-proof, but you keep using false dilemmas. Imperial walkers still hold their locomotive components like joints and drives further from enemy mines than axles and gears on tracked or wheeled vehicles. Obviously the technology is inferior in endurance, efficiency, cost, and a dozen other things, but that's not the point.
So it's inferior and horribly designed in every way except a possible advantage against some mines, yet they are the ubiquitous fighting machines of the Empire?
With Marines. The Imperial Army is larger and more extensive. Check WEG. The fact that the subjective and NR-biased literature chooses to depict the smaller and more specialized Marines is not my problem.
See above. Those fighters are Army.

Secondly, what the hell is NR-biased literature?
Because Imperial Marines are always assigned walker armor. Why were their not a thousand defenses at Endor that would've made the difference? Politics; a dozen reasons means that the Marines got stuck virtually exclusively with their KDY specialized assault armor. But your bitching won't change what they are said to be designed for, and the fact they're almost entirely with Marines.

The Imperial Army uses more conventional armor.
First of all, as mentioned, they're armor crews are wearing Army uniforms. Why exactly would their Marine Corp be wearing Army Uniforms?

Secondly, it's the most important installation in the galaxy which they are defending why would they use specialized assualt armor that are vastly inferior to tanks and armored vehicles except possibly against mines when there is a possibility that if the base falls the Emperor himselfs life could be endangered?
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Gil Hamilton wrote:Some colaterral yes, but it blows the legs of the walker, which is more important.
Which requires a lot of big expensive mines, which to avoid wasting other mines has to be placed further apart, and may not be effective against more heavily armored walkers like AT-ATs, which then carry the AT-STs and step over and between and around your further-apart mines. You're fucked. And it'd still shoot the same spear of energy through an axle and kill a wheeled vehicle.
Gil Hamilton wrote: Wrong, ever single trooper there is wearing Imperial Army uniforms.
:wtf: Did you read what I said? I said it was a Marine base, as in they weren't Army troopers. As in they were a Stormtrooper unit, with some auxillaries. As in they are assigned the assault armor Stormtroopers always are trained on.
Gil Hamilton wrote:So it's inferior and horribly designed in every way except a possible advantage against some mines, yet they are the ubiquitous fighting machines of the Empire?
Tell me when a major Army assault used them. Perhaps it didn't occur to you that in SW, a large number of assaults are going to be against some shielded outposts on not-entirely shielded worlds?

As I said, they are Marine armor for assault and shock work. They perfectly fit what I said they were designed for.

Other assaults, such as the fight against Lord Shadowspawn and Imperial sieges during Palpatine's return saw deployment of standard armor by both sides, including full tanks.
Gil Hamilton wrote:See above. Those fighters are Army.
:wtf: That's not what you just said. And the base was still a Marine base. The AT-STs were operated by Army officers. Your point being? Everywhere else AT-STs belong to Stormies, and the base garrison was still a Stormie legion.

Did you see the Imperial Army troopers? Because I missed them. The point stands that the Endor garrison was a Marine force.
Gil Hamilton wrote:Secondly, what the hell is NR-biased literature?
All EU. See Suspension of Disbelief.
Gil Hamilton wrote:First of all, as mentioned, they're armor crews are wearing Army uniforms. Why exactly would their Marine Corp be wearing Army Uniforms?
An aberration. The garrison was still a Stormtrooper legion, and the standard AT-AT crew as seen at Hoth are Stormtrooper officers in BDUs. This is the best indication of the jurisdiction and garrison designation at the Endor base. As the force was commanded by naval officers, and the "three squads" sent to help were anything but. Perhaps the scout walkers were a late addition to the Imperial base? Certainly it had little to no fixed battery defenses, did not clear the immediate surroundings, and did not possess air support. The "legion of best troops" was overwhelmed by Ewoks, a few commandoes, and a captured scout walker in a few hours. The Imperial garrison was haphazard at best, and to use it to accuse the general Imperial military organization is quite extreme.
Gil Hamilton wrote:Secondly, it's the most important installation in the galaxy which they are defending why would they use specialized assualt armor that are vastly inferior to tanks and armored vehicles except possibly against mines when there is a possibility that if the base falls the Emperor himselfs life could be endangered?
Who the fuck knows? This problem is hardly solved even if your desire that the walkers have no fucking purpose is fullfilled. And it solves nothing regarding the aforementioned other problems. Endor was a circlejerk. The best excuse I've heard is from Vympel, with his suggestion that "best" was a despot's reference to the most politically reliable troops. I don't like that either, but Endor was just fucked up. No emplacement weapons? No artillery support? No man-portable heavy weapons? No standard Army troopers? No camo armor for the Stormies? Uncleared surroundings? No TL batteries? No speeders or aircraft?

No matter what one thinks about walkers, these things are unacceptable regardless, and really another issue.
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Illuminatus Primus wrote: Moreover, AT-STs can be and are transported by AT-ATs, and walkers can step over and around mines where wheeled and tracked vehicles simply can't.

No, walkers are not perfect. But locomotive systems are better protected and avoided against mines in Marine walker armor than in a similar tank or wheeled vehicle.
Trying to avoid mines is a retarded strategy. Way back about 60 years ago the mine plow was invented. With it the vehicle simply plows up the earth ahead of its self, in the process exploding and shoving aside any mines. Clever fusing won't save the mine, only burying them extremely deeply will, and that's rarely feasible, espically on a fast moving battlefield.

I don't know why your all raving about shaped charges though. Anti tank mines almost always use a simply bulk explosive charge to inflict damage, you only run into shaped charges with some tilt rod designs, which are meant to hit tanks in the belly rather then the tracks. That aren't too common however. And if you knew you where facing walkers you'd simply use the simpler bulk charges and blow off the feet off.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Trying to avoid mines is a retarded strategy. Way back about 60 years ago the mine plow was invented. With it the vehicle simply plows up the earth ahead of its self, in the process exploding and shoving aside any mines. Clever fusing won't save the mine, only burying them extremely deeply will, and that's rarely feasible, espically on a fast moving battlefield.[/quote]

In SW level armor, won't a brute force kind of approach end up blowing mines which may stretch to kiloton yield in your face?
Sea Skimmer wrote:I don't know why your all raving about shaped charges though. Anti tank mines almost always use a simply bulk explosive charge to inflict damage, you only run into shaped charges with some tilt rod designs, which are meant to hit tanks in the belly rather then the tracks. That aren't too common however. And if you knew you where facing walkers you'd simply use the simpler bulk charges and blow off the feet off.
Yeah, but with SW-level armor, you're going to have use huge mines to brute-force kill armored vehicles, and that'll end up making you place them further apart to avoid nuking the field from a chain detonation, which in-turn is going to leave gaps. And brute force weapons are going to kill tanks and walkers as easily. The walkers will just have a lower probability of stepping on one.

I don't see how brute force kills work well with SW level materials science; they tend to shy away from WMD level firepower under atmosphere. At Geonosis, everything was a directed-blast, from energy weapons, to projectiles, to missiles.
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Post by SWPIGWANG »

This is silly....

Okay, first of all, ONE ONLY NEED TO STOP THE WALKERS, NOT DESTROY THEM

which is easy, but I'll do calcs instead.

*google searches for AT-AT weight, and only to find wong's estimates....gahhh I give up...throws hands into air*

Okay, to disable the mechs there are a few methods. One, tie tow cables around the legs, two, flip it over, thirdly, trap/trip its legs and probably a few other methods.

Lets try the hardest method possible, flipping the AT-AT over with DET.

Image
please excuse the ruler on screen method of scaling.

Now lets use Wong's estimation 2500 tons.

The level arm to stablizing the AT-AT is 2m x 2500tonx1000kg/ton = 5megaNewton*Meter. The force require to rotate would be 5mNM/12M=427kN when impacting at the center of mass at 12 meter high. Note that the final calc does not rely on any specific impact location as the heights cancel out. The Energy needed would be force times distance. Since we only need to move the center of gravity by 3 meters and the angle of rotation is small, I'll use an linear approximation that gives an high end. W=F*D = 1250KJ

Note that a Star figther lasers weapon are rated 60GJ per shot, a good many orders of magnitudes higher. Granted they are not kinetic, but thats still alot of orders of magnitudes.

more later
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Yes, but X-Wing lasers don't topple AT-ATs in Isard's Revenge. Either the mass is much greater, or command of gravitic technology allows them to grip the ground better or something.
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Post by SWPIGWANG »

Now lets try blasting the AT-AT over with shockwaves.

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*brandwidth stealer I am, muhahahaha* (I need a better host than geocities)

Okay, ruler on the screen methods yield 6*15 meter^2 surface area for the body. I'll use it to calculate the blast over pressure require to tip over the walker. The area is 90m^2 and the force required is 427kN as they are roughly at the same elevation. The next person that suggests me to use integrals will eat mutimelta of death, so don't. The necessary pressure is 4744N/M^2 = 4kPa = 6.75 pound-force/square inch (PSI).

Now to take the values of nuclear weapons....

http://www.aussurvivalist.com/nuclear/blasteffects.htm
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear ... able1.html

At 1Mt, ....
2.4 Kilometres = 20 psi (peak) , 470mph windspeed

Overpressure distance is the cube root of yield according to this...
http://www.surviveanuclearattack.com/Nu ... toids.html
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Post by SWPIGWANG »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Yes, but X-Wing lasers don't topple AT-ATs in Isard's Revenge. Either the mass is much greater, or command of gravitic technology allows them to grip the ground better or something.
Lasers don't have (much) momentum and wouldn't do the job. However, kinetic weapon of similar yield is used, or an less focused weapon (see post above) to cause a shock wave would led to enough kinetic energy to literally fling AT-ATs across the air. Without magnitudes more weight (and sink into the ground and become under ground mech), or uber tech (unsuitable to something that can't even take on run of mill starfighters) there is no defense.
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Post by SWPIGWANG »

Now lets use on of the easiest way to defeat such mechs. To topple them over with crazy terrain. :)

Using the picture above, we can calculate he maximum slope nagivatible by the walker. Tan^-1(2/12) = 9.5 degrees allowed in pitch. Fairly bad considering going over is a complete mission kill.

Now lets calculate how much energy is required to build a AT-AT trap by melting the ice under the walkers to suddenly create a 10 degree slope.

Now using wong's 5meter dimeter legs, 2 legs required is 150m^2. To change the slope by ten degrees, we use sin(10)*5meters = 0.86meters.

The total volume required is 135m^3. That converted into mass would be 135,000kg.

The specific heat capcity of water is 4200J/(K*kg) and the latent heat of fusion is 334000J/kg. Assuming hoth's temperature is -20degree C, we get the energy requirement to be....

5.6e10J = 56GJ. Not a small number, but within the capacities of fighter weapons, and in this case energy weapons DO work.

Though digging a 1 meter deep as AT-AT traps would work, and would not be difficult. Even if the empire don't fall of it, it can't cross such terrain effectively.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Simple off-axis repulsor systems would avoid tipping problems. They wouldn't actually support or move the vehicle, and we know they require little power and are very compact.
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Post by Soulman »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:And for the last time, the shock problem isn't simple static electricity. Notice that in TPM, battle droids can pop through shields; but the AATs and other repulsorlifts of all types do not dare until the shield is cut-off. There's no evidence a simple wire would provide enough ground contact to avoid whatever the effect is, or automatically distribute all energy even if it were simple static electricity.
Why use a single wire? Cover the underside of the repulsor craft with them so that it resembles a giant toothbrush of death. You could probably get more ground contact that way than with a couple of feet anyway.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

How do you know that'd solve the problem? They evidently chose to use walkers instead of a bunch of repulsortanks with wires hanging off them.

We don't understand why the battledroids could proceed through the theatre shield, but not that repulsor vehicles. If you can explain and quantify whatever the hell these "energy discharges" are, and the prove this would work, I'll sign off on it. But AOTC ICS says that's what they're for, and I'm inclined to believe canon.
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