Yoda in the prequels

[Galvatron]

The Special Editions were still viewed after the original version.

That's my point. Like it or not, Lucas is a revisionist. He's basically stated that the SEs are now the definitive editions of the OT, not despite being newer, but because they're newer.

And maybe, just maybe Episode III will lock everything neatly into place in a manner that will suit you... But I doubt it.

Maybe they will, but you're probably right since I didn't like the first two episodes...

I'm curious. How would you have portrayed the Clone Wars?

Differently.

Seriously, any ideas I have right now are just that: ideas. I don't have any aspirations to write a fanfic.

Assuming the basic premises behind this conflict remain as they are in the prequels Palpatine is manipulating both sides. It wasn't just a random thing that he took advantage of, it was a grand conspiracy that the Jedi were supposed to be involved in unraveling.

I'd probably retain that aspect of the story, although some of it may be tweaked.

The Jedi were still not completely blind to what was going on. There is a difference between operating under the laws of the Republic during a time of extreme crisis and a coup. I don't think there was an "Emperor's Clause" in the Republic's constitution.

It's possible that he manipulated the Senate into proclaiming him Emperor versus the popular notion that he staged a coup and assumed the title for himself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're expecting is that in Episode III, Palpatine reveals himself to everyone as the eeevil Sith Lord, assumes the title of Emperor, and orders the deaths of the Jedi on "national TV." I'll be sorely disappointed if Lucas can't come up with something more clever than that. So far, I think Palpatine's subtle machinations have been one of the few good things about the prequels.

Well, yeah. Considering Palaptine declares himself Emperor and proclaims the New Order prior to ANH. Weren't the Jedi wiped out because of their opposition to the New Order?

I don't know. That part of the backstory hasn't been talked about in great detail. I always preferred to believe that the Emperor maintained his facade of benevolence during this time, simultaneously supporting the Jedi and mourning their losses in public while covertly orchestrating their downfall.

Palpatine's subtle machinations position him for the takeover. Changing title from president to absolute monarch in under a decade does not strike me as either subtle or slow.

I'd equate it to the rise of the Augustus Caesar. He was given his title and power by the Senate. He didn't have to stage a coup.

I guess I just don't like the idea of Palpatine abandoning guile in favor of naked aggression. Besides, the "coup" scenario doesn't explain how the Senate remained in power. My scenario does.

The coup, as far as I'm concerned, didn't happen until ANH when the Emperor dissolved the Senate.

In ANH, there were stormtroopers on Tatooine because they were conducting a search. The only other "worthwhile planet" we see in the OT is Coruscant and that's only a brief glimpse. So where's the evidence for a sizable Imperial presence on every planet?

Every worthwhile planet. Specifically the Core and the Colonies, not sun-bleached dust balls on the fringes of the galaxy. Han references Corellia (important world) as a source of Imperial starships. Numerous ISDs of Kuati origin are deployed by the Empire etc. The vastness of the Imperial armed forces infers that they maintain a large force on vital worlds. You're getting the mobile marauder misconception because virtually every world depicted in the OT is remote and almost unknown.

We can only speculate. Given the sheer quantity and diversity of worlds in the Star Wars galaxy, any number of possible scenarios could have occurred after ANH. Some worlds may have accepted the Emperor's absolute rule, some may have openly rebelled, while others may have opted to quietly support the rebellion through less direct means.

Well, unless I missed something, Yoda expressed no intention of personally taking up the fight against Palpatine. That was my point.

No you didn't miss anything. Yoda does not fight the Emperor directly, Palpatine is too powerful. Yoda sent Luke after Vader. Yoda resists the Empire by training Jedi. The plan was probably to depose Palpatine via the Rebel Alliance.

Hmmm... I was under the impression that the Rebel Alliance was doomed unless Luke was able to depose both Vader and Palpatine.

[Galvatron]

That's quite a leap. To me, using the Force for knowledge simply refers to their powers of precognition and telepathy.

Leap? Have you read the ANH novelisation when Ben mentioned scientists trying to define the Force? Have you read the RotJ novelisation when Luke thought about his knowledge?

I haven't read the novelizations in years, but I don't see how your vague examples have any bearing on the issue. I guess I'm just unclear as to how Jedi clairvoyance necessitates a massive centralized data storage facility. It just sounds like a non sequitur to me.

Which is yet another reason why I balk at their rarity.

Have I spent my time trying to answer balking? Great.

Isn't that all we do here? Were you concerned that I'd buy the rights to Star Wars and redo all the prequels my way?

In my version, Jedi would be spread all over the galaxy and at least one or two would usually be no farther away than one of the planets in your own home system. However they're to be contacted would depend on whatever arrangements they've made with their local governments. Otherwise, they'd show up whenever they sense that they're needed.

The ANH novelisation was quite clear about that the jedis were unable to sense the falling of the Republic. Arrangements with the local governments? I sense that an organisation is starting right here ...

Less organization is my aim, not zero organization. It would be decentralized and non-uniform.

Two things: First, Luke's "training" under a master's tutelage up to that point consisted of little more than practicing with a remote on board the Falcon. Second, Luke knew he was traveling to an alien planet and didn't know what to expect, hence the camping equipment.

1. I was talking about his training on Dagobah.
2. According to the novelisation he was extremely surprised and wondered why a jedi would have been on such a jungle world.

So? The only Jedi Luke ever met was Obi-Wan. He had no basis for his expectations other than his own preconceived notions of how a Jedi Master would live.

Yet the cartoon doesn't contradict anything so it's still official. Which means Yoda officially became a front-line combatant after AOTC. No?

However, Yoda was a warrior. We see it. He's officially shown leading an army of clones into a ground battle. That makes him a warrior in my book.

Yes. That makes him a warrior in the prequels era EU. But not in the prequels themselves, and you started this topic to cry about Yoda's presence in the prequels.

Well, Yoda probably wouldn't be in the prequel-era EU if he weren't in the prequels themselves. In that sense, yes, I've extended my "crying" to include the EU and not just the prequels themselves. Make no mistake, the Clone Wars cartoon is closely tied in to the prequels to the extent that they're even introducing the new villain from Episode III.

If you had written that you had disliked the opening sequences of the Clone Wars cartoon because of this, I would have agreed. But now it appears that you say that you hate the bible because the inquisition was evil.

Actually, I still hold the prequels largely responsible because they started it. The EU is only taking the logical next step after AOTC showed Yoda to be a field commander who's also quite capable of engaging in physical combat.

Okay, try to follow along here: I use the term "great warrior" facetiously because that was Luke's preconceived notion of what a Jedi Master would be and because Yoda apparently found it amusing, hence his little retort about wars not making one great.

I think of Yoda as a wizened, war-weary yet powerful old Samurai master and the swamps of Dagobah as his dojo.

So, an old samurai master is no more a warrior. OK.

Not a retired Samurai master, no.

[Stofsk]

Christ I hate to jump in the middle of a thread that I haven't got involved with, but why do you think that the Jedi order would benefit from less organisation as opposed to what they have depicted on the screen? I'm sorry if this question has been answered before.