Worst SW EU book

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-25 10:08pm

Hey, I liked Anakin. I wish that his idiotic and ridiculously naive brother had bitten the big one, instead. I know what your point was, and I agree with you completely. The Jedi should be acting in a support role. "We can only protect you, we cannot fight a war for you." The Jedi should not have to win every battle like they are, particularly since the battles they win tend to involve nothing more than corvettes and fighters. The Jedi should attack strategic targets, or priority targets, or they should hold particularly important areas. They should not be able to take the fight to their enemies by themselves. They need more help than that. They just should not have the resources.

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-07-25 10:39pm

Change of subject. EU books I like... The Zahn trilogy & duology... And the Black Fleet Crisis by Michael P. Kube-McDowell - all of those were good books. The Zahn for, well, for everything.

And the MPKM for the political intrigue, showing how a republic and be worked over by a skillful manipulator and eager accomplices in the major media outlets.

The other books rather fall by the way-side. Even the original bit of the X-Wing series by Stackpole isn't doing much for me anymore. I like the fact that he made Wedge a major character - I like that. But Corran Horn... He just rather grates on me.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-25 10:44pm

Damn I hated Black Fleet Crisis. Lando's plot stank. Luke's plot stank. Chewie did nothing. His son seemed like a disgrace to all Wookies, most especially Chewbacca, and I hated the New Republic's military.

I also liked Zahn. Both his duology and his trilogy were awesome.

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-07-25 10:53pm

Black Fleet Crisis.

You notice I didn't mention anything about Chewie or Lobot or Lando etc in the parts I liked.

One thing I did like was Luke flaunting a bit of the Force, using it to raise up that castle on Coruscant, forcibly going into the mind of random woman who sudden came to see him and said "Hey, I can help you find your mom" to see if she was lying. That was nice. He wasn't engaging in that "oh, I'm a Jedi Master, I have to be a wuss" nonsense.

It was also funny to see the clan of Force using women (who either don't like men or just don't like warriors - since they invited Leia to join them) snub Luke and say - "Of course we don't know your mother. You believed this total stranger could actually help you? Fool."

On the other hand, one thing I didn't like were the Yvethians (spelling?) the race that started the whole mess, having uberships. That kind of crap bugs me. They aren't more skilled in battle, no they just magically have better vessels. Oh, those heavy anti-ship weapons our K-Wings use on ISD's without too much difficulty? Oh, those don't work on those thrust ships.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-26 01:08am

Actually, the thrust ships could be taken down by gunships, one on one. I hated that part of the book, because it made no sense. The Yevethan fleet was smaller than the NR's, it was poorly trained, its ships were little better (if at all) and they were terrible for fleet engagements because they were designed to concentrate all of their fire on one target. HOW ARE THEY A THREAT?

I also hated the characters. Plat Mallar and all the rest bugged the HELL out of me. A book with these flaws cannot be considered one of the best SW EU books. If anything, it should go down as one of the worst, IMO.

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2002-07-28 01:49am

My least favorite Star Wars book was a part of a series. the Bounty Hunter Wars book 2+3. This series let me agree with a Treky on how K.W.Jeter cant wright. Mandalorian Armor was a great book. it showed us how and who "helped" Boba escape the sarlacc pit and gave good action sequences. but when the second and third books came it was horrible. the action was terrible and Bossk some how acted more civilized except for killing that info bum on the streets of Mos Eisley.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-28 05:33pm

Is that really the worst one you've read? BFC was far worse, from a writing perspective. I also absolutely hated The Approaching Storm. It wins my "travel brochure reject" award for talking emphatically about a planet that was not in the least bit interesting to begin with. Rogue Planet was also fairly weak, because very little happened in it and it appeared to end without really ending.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-08-05 07:34pm

"Ton Phanon of Wraith Squadron. Lasted about halfway through his second book."

...and was killed off by Allston, not Stackpole. Concession accepted.

"Tal'dira of Rogue Squadron. Lasted about halfway through his fourth book."

...and was killed off by Allston, not Stackpole. Concession accepted.

"Riv Shiel of Rogue Squadron. Lasted about a third of the way through his fourth book."

...whose intruduction was almost non-existent and whose character development equalled void. Concession accepted.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-05 08:56pm

That was exactly the problem with many of the X-Wing series, though, IMHO. They just had too many characters to work well. When one of them died, I never gave a damn. I did not care about any of them, except for the main characters. And sometimes I found them to be somewhat difficult to empathize with, also. That is why I liked Starfighters of Adumar more than any of the rest of the series. It took steps to help alleviate the problem.

BTW, I did enjoy many of the X-Wing books (Krytos Trap and Bacta War were especially good). I just think they could have been better had they had fewer characters that were better developed, rather than many characters who seemed like cardboard stand-ins.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-05 09:02pm

Thats what I like about Wraith series and the Reverge of Isard and Adum book as both Wes and Hobbie are funny as hell and the rest are good for a laugh

Come on admit it everyone liked Wes Janson

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-05 09:08pm

I agree. Wraith Squadron was better than the earliest Rogue Squadron books. I also like Janson and Hobbie and Wedge, I just think they seemed a bit thin and under-developed early in the series. It got better as it went on.

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2002-08-06 12:56am

I disliked the Truce at Bakura for a couple of reasons. First off, what in the world was the Rebellions top leaders doing at Bakura when the war against the Empire had just taken a drastic turn in their favor. Then would have been the time to begin staging their next attack into the Empire's core controlled worlds.

Also the book dragged on terribly. The Ssi-Ruuk (sp) really annoyed me, their philosophy seemed to have no point to it.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-06 01:00am

Talon Karrde wrote:I disliked the Truce at Bakura for a couple of reasons. First off, what in the world was the Rebellions top leaders doing at Bakura when the war against the Empire had just taken a drastic turn in their favor. Then would have been the time to begin staging their next attack into the Empire's core controlled worlds.

Also the book dragged on terribly. The Ssi-Ruuk (sp) really annoyed me, their philosophy seemed to have no point to it.

And the fleet is too small around Bakura, and if a Carrack cruiser and an escort carrier's worth of ships can defeat a sizeable task force, how can the Ssi-Ruuk possibly hope to fight the Galaxy. You are right, that book was not very good, but it was of minor annoyance next to the horror that was The Approaching Storm, or the Black Fleet Crisis (whose first book was, interestingly enough, "Before the Storm").

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2002-08-06 01:36am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:I disliked the Truce at Bakura for a couple of reasons. First off, what in the world was the Rebellions top leaders doing at Bakura when the war against the Empire had just taken a drastic turn in their favor. Then would have been the time to begin staging their next attack into the Empire's core controlled worlds.

Also the book dragged on terribly. The Ssi-Ruuk (sp) really annoyed me, their philosophy seemed to have no point to it.
And the fleet is too small around Bakura, and if a Carrack cruiser and an escort carrier's worth of ships can defeat a sizeable task force, how can the Ssi-Ruuk possibly hope to fight the Galaxy. You are right, that book was not very good, but it was of minor annoyance next to the horror that was The Approaching Storm, or the Black Fleet Crisis (whose first book was, interestingly enough, "Before the Storm").

Amen to the Black Fleet Crisis. I read all 3 of those books and was left with a question of where did the magic in Star Wars go?? I was distracted by the storyline of Luke searching for his mother and this turns out to be so minor in the Star Wars universe you wonder why they would ever drag you on such an idiotic adventure. Then you find out the enemy they are fighting is actually right under their noses in the deep core. Perhaps you can explain this to me. The maps I've seen shows the Deep Core to be inside even Coruscant. Is this region hard to reach??

As for the fleet in the Truce of Bakura, excellent point. The Ssi-Ruuk conflict royally ticked me off. To bring in a foreign conflict during what could have been a high point in the Civil War was mind boggling.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-08-06 03:28pm

Quote: Ton Phanon of Wraith Squadron. Lasted about halfway through his second book."

...and was killed off by Allston, not Stackpole. Concession accepted.

"Tal'dira of Rogue Squadron. Lasted about halfway through his fourth book."

...and was killed off by Allston, not Stackpole. Concession accepted.

"Riv Shiel of Rogue Squadron. Lasted about a third of the way through his fourth book."

...whose intruduction was almost non-existent and whose character development equalled void. Concession accepted.

---------

Ack!
Ack! Ack! Ack! You're right! *bangs head on wall* Shit, man I wasn't
even thinking when I did that!

Wes: Sir, permission to jump from an upper story balcony to ease my shame?
Wedge: Granted.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2002-08-06 08:23pm

"(IG-88E)
Ack!
Ack! Ack! Ack! You're right! *bangs head on wall* Shit, man I wasn't
even thinking when I did that!

Wes: Sir, permission to jump from an upper story balcony to ease my shame?
Wedge: Granted."

'sokay. You know, I really only went so hard on you because I wanted to say "concession accepted" a few times. I missed the sound of it.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-06 08:34pm

Surprisingly, the Deep Core is even more difficult to access than most of the Rim. It has various navigational hazards like supermassive Black Holes and a very high concentration of stars that make it one of the most inhospitable places in the Galaxy. That is where the Jedi set up their secret base. BTW, the location of the Koornacht Cluster on the map of the NJO books is ludicrous. If the cluster was actually there, it should not have escaped detection for so long, especially because the Empire used to occupy the darned place.

BTW, if you haven't read the Approaching Storm, don't. It is terrible. The writing is quite possibly the worst I have ever read in a published work, and it is essentially a character book without the characters, who are both irritating and inconsistent. It felt VERY sloppy and ill-conceived, and I struggled through the entire thing to get nothing in return. Don't plunk down your twenty bucks. The book sucks.

LMSx · Post by **LMSx** » 2002-08-06 09:51pm

As if you havn't told us enough.....

I think I'm going to actually BUY the series just to spite you.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-07 02:16am

As long as I warned you. If you REALLY wanted to spite me, you would buy The Approaching Storm. Don't say I didn't warn you.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-08-07 09:58am

Stackpole did kill Lujayne Forge, and she did have more than 3 sentences of background.

Pendragon · Post by **Pendragon** » 2002-08-07 11:26am

Yeah, she had a ONE FULL CONVERSATION!
Even Castin Donn had more character.
The worst part is, Stackpole ALMOST made amends when he "killed off" Asyr. He gave her a good heroic (a bit predictable though, but thats just concistant with the rest of the books) death scene... and the SHE DIDNT DIE AFTER ALL!

I mean, what the worst casualties Rouge Squadron ever took in a singe fight with Stackpole calling the shots? Two? Three? And how many of those were "the new guys"?

Wasnt Rouge Squadron supposed to take horrible casualties most of the time? I have a distinct memory of Wedge giving a big speech about that in the first book.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-07 01:24pm

Just have to say that no book, other than The Approaching Storm can be considered the worst SW book. I hated Black Fleet Crisis, and I found serious fault in several other books and series, but most of them (including BFC) had at least some redeeming quality. Approaching Storm had none. Here are some exerpts from the novel. I will go back and brave the darkness of that book in the hopes that some of you will take my advice and not purchase it. These are fairly representative of the quality of the book, and it should be understood how these are not isolated incidents. Many times, mistakes made in these sentences were repeated at different times during the book. All page numbers refer to my hardcover book, but the book isn't worth buying in paperback, either."

"Luminara blocked both his shots before taking one hand briefly off the lightsaber to gesture in his direction. Like a living thing, the dangerous weapon flew out of his hands, startling him so badly he fell backward onto his butt." (page 18) Yes, this is a SW book, and yes, it did say that. I don't have to make up quotes to disparage this piece of crap.

""Pagh! 'The Force.' You all bemused and intimidated by this Force nonsense.... These are humanoids, like yourself. Sentients, like me. They bleed and die like any creatures of flesh and blood....
Throughout the tirade, the visitors [Jedi] had sat silently. [Note the ridiculously passive sentence that is passive for no reason whatsoever.] Now Anakin's hand strayed in the direction of his lightsaber. A hint of a smile from his Master was all that was necessary to still the movement.... Now he forced himself to remain calm--because his master wished that he be so.
Obi-Wan Kenobi, he knew, was quite capable of taking care of himself. [duh!]....
"The Force is nothing to be so casually disparaged, my large friend," Luminara informed the Armalat. "Especially by one who has no understanding of it."
...Tolut started around the table. Barriss and Anakin both tensed, but Obi-Wan sat quietly, indifferent to approach of the massive, powerful Armalat. Extending a huge hand, he gestured at the table. One of the several crystal carafes of water that had been placed there to slake the thirst of the participants trembled slightly, then rose half a meter off the surface.... "See! [should be a question mark] With exercise and will, anyone can do what Jedi can do. Hardly reason for awe." [They can? WTF?]
"On the contrary," Luminara told him, "knowledge is always reason for awe." She did not raise her hand. She did not have to.
The carafe stopped trembling, steadied. As Luminara focused on it, it rose slowly until it reached the ceiling. Fascinated, the delegates could not take their eyes off it....
Like a bulbous crystal bird [UGLY analogy, and really not useful.], the carafe drifted along the ceiling until it was poised directly above the Armalat. Grim faced, he began to make ponderous, then frantic gestures in the hovering container's direction. These had absolutely no effect on the floating object. He might as well have been gesticulating in front of a mirror [Why the hell is the second sentence there? The first sentence already told us it was futile.].
As smoothly as if manipulated by an experienced waiter, the carafe abruptly turned upside down and dumped its ice-cold contents on the increasingly frustrated alien. Glaring, he wiped the water from his eyes and took a step toward the serene Jedi. Barriss reached for her lightsaber, only to be stilled by her Master, much as Obi-Wan had earlier restrained his own Padawan [just in case we forgot what happened a page and a half ago....].
One by one, the remaining carafes leapt off the table to dash tehir contents in Tolut's face....
"I hope," Luminara murmured as she turned away and resumed her seat, "That no one is particularly thirsty."[Okay, if anyone else is pissed off by this yet, raise your hands. Why the hell would a Jedi have done that, and why the hell was the guy able to pick up the carafe in the first place? Luke couldn't have done that until well into his training, and he was a powerful Force adept. Remember how much trouble he had picking up his lightsaber in ESB? It gets worse....]
Leaning toward Anakin, Obi-Wan whispered softly. "And that, my young Padawan, was a demonstration of what is known as dynamic diplomacy." [Just a reminder, Obi-Wan didn't give a damn when Han disparaged the Force in ANH. Maybe it's okay to talk about the Force, just not to use it for something unecessary. Oh wait, then he should be ticked off at Luminara, but he's not. Oh well....]" (pages 40-43)

My friend went through after I read the book (I would not go near it, again) and found that it had the statement, "Barriss was very by-the-book" more than 25 times. That does not include things that it says that imply that, or that mean the same thing. Just in case you forgot her character from three pages ago, you need only continue reading and you will be reminded of what you are missing.

"She sensed that her head was still attached to her shoulders, but that was about the only thing Luminara could be certain of when she finaly regained consciousness. Her amrs were tightly tied behind her, and her legs boudnd at thigh, calf, and ankle. Daylight was all she could detect through the soft, permeable hood that covered her head [Wait, so now she can sense daylight AND that her head was on her shoulders. Why wasn't that mentioned, earlier?].... The gag that had been expertly positioned in her mouth kept her from enunciating anything more eloquent than a grunt." [I love all of these ultra-wussified Jedi. They seem to have no powers but to pick up medium-sized objects and move them around. They can sense nothing, do nothing, and most of their abilities come from physical prowess rather than Force-attunement] (page 223)

"Anything that came near the Jedi was deflected by lightsabers that seemed to spin and whirl as rapidly as the lightning itself." [Quite frankly, I think this is the worst sentence I have ever read anywhere. My kid brother could write a better one. Not only was there absolutely no lightning in this scene, but there were also no blasters and so I am forced to think that by lightning he means "lightsaber." Oh, wait, there's a problem, there, too! He is essentially saying that the lightsabers were spinning as rapidly as the lightsabers. WTF? BTW, since when does lightning spin?] (page 307)

There's other crap involved in the book, too. For instance, after being told 25+ times that Barriss is very by-the-book (in as many words), she gets angry at Anakin for doing what the book tells him to do? She also seems to repeatedly wander off/get kidnapped. Maybe that's what the book tells her to do. And all of the characters act exactly like all of the other ones, except in the little sentences where he tells you how you are supposed to be reading their characters. This Alan Dean Foster did not tell me a story. He told me about a story. The book is God-awful and should not be read under any circumstances. Avert your eyes, everyone. It may take on many forms.

LMSx · Post by **LMSx** » 2002-08-07 09:53pm

Ooooh, now it all makes sense. I was confused about "Before the Storm" in BFC, and "The Approaching Storm", which is apparently a Obi-Wan story.

I was wondering why you hated it so badly.....Now I know.

Carry on.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-08-08 02:28am

Yeah, I will have to say that the book sucked ass. Hard. Think about this one. He's the one who ghost wrote the ANH novelisation. *gasp* I have read it and loved it. When I heard he was writing TAS I was overjoyed. Your right though. 25 years can dull the senses. Didn't he write Splinter of the mind's eye? It's like the first piece of EU

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-09 02:16pm

To be honest, I didn't like Before the Storm. I thought that that trilogy was pretty weak, but it was nothing like The Approaching Storm, which is by far the worst SW book I have ever read (I have heard it said that the Galaxy of Fear series was sometimes worse, but I find that difficult to believe). I have talked about how much I disliked that trilogy on this thread, and elsewhere, but I don't think it was the worst SW book I have ever read.

Incidentally, Alan Dean Foster did write Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which was the first ever SW novel to go outside of the movies. I thought that that was somewhat flawed, but it was interesting because of its value, historically (written and published even before ESB was released). I found The Approaching Storm both significantly worse and of no value to anyone for any reason. It sucked, and it was an Anakin/Obi-Wan story, although it also involved Luminara Unduli and Barriss Offee. None of the characters, including Anakin and Obi-Wan, were remotely memorable, though, so to say that it was a character story might be a hasty mis-statement.

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Worst SW EU book

On the other hand, EU books that I do like...