Darth Vader on trial

[Srynerson]

Personally I'd use Vader to end the war as fast as possible. He is the Emperors right hand man and he would be the one to inherit control of the Empire in the event of the Emperors death. As a result Vader would be able to put the Rebel Alliance incharge on Coruscant with all of the resources of the Empire at their disposal. Hopefully with the systems that would stay loyal thanks to Vader signing things over to the New Republic and with the vast resources of the fleet, the fighting to eliminate the last vestiges of the Empire shouldn't take more than a decade at most.

EU sources indicate that Vader didn't have much support in the Imperial bureaucracy or military. (In the Marvel comics there was an active conspiracy by Imperial officers to assassinate him.) While he would undoubtedly be a useful source of information regarding hidden bases, superweapons, etc., I don't know how much influence he would have after the Emperor's death.

[Aquatain]

hmm i always thought that if the emperor died and vader survived he would take over and run the show...i belive he even had plans of the emperors untimely demise when he offered luke to join him and "rule the galaxy as father and son"at bespin.

[Srynerson]

hmm i always thought that if the emperor died and vader survived he would take over and run the show...i belive he even had plans of the emperors untimely demise when he offered luke to join him and "rule the galaxy as father and son"at bespin.

You're perfectly correct that Vader had ambitions to do that, but whether he actually could have is a different question.

[Noble Ire]

hmm i always thought that if the emperor died and vader survived he would take over and run the show...i belive he even had plans of the emperors untimely demise when he offered luke to join him and "rule the galaxy as father and son"at bespin.

So, you missed the whole "redemption" bit at the end of the movie.

[Srynerson]

hmm i always thought that if the emperor died and vader survived he would take over and run the show...i belive he even had plans of the emperors untimely demise when he offered luke to join him and "rule the galaxy as father and son"at bespin.

So, you missed the whole "redemption" bit at the end of the movie.

I thought he was addressing my earlier point by reference to ESB.

[Noble Ire]

hmm i always thought that if the emperor died and vader survived he would take over and run the show...i belive he even had plans of the emperors untimely demise when he offered luke to join him and "rule the galaxy as father and son"at bespin.

So, you missed the whole "redemption" bit at the end of the movie.

I thought he was addressing my earlier point by reference to ESB.

Oh.
If you were, sorry.
Quoting=Good

[Kurgan]

The Death Star was Tarkin's project; Vader was there as an observer, but had no control over it. He deferred to Tarkin in all matters.

As for the events in RotS-- Anakin/Vader was engaging and eliminating the members of a cult who, as far as he knew, were engaged in an attempted coup against the lawful government. They were rebels, insurrectionists, and enemy combatants, no helpless civilians.

Except the Younglings of course. He can't use the modern excuse of indiscriminate weapons of mass destruction or mis-timed "surgical strikes" causing collateral damage in this case.

Dictionary.com says:
mass murder

n : the savage and excessive killing of many people [syn: slaughter, massacre, carnage, butchery]

So yes, he is a mass murderer by definition. He's just not guilty (that we know of) of millions of killings like Hitler or Stalin. His connection with Tarkin would be guilt by association.

In the movies we have Anakin murdering an entire encampment of an unknown number of Sandpeople, all those in the Jedi Temple, Count Dooku, and the Seperatist leaders, then a handful of Imperial Officials under his command and a captured Rebel Captain. And of course he murders the Emperor, which I'm sure few Rebels would shed any tears over (though capturing him for trial might have been useful for propaganda purposes if it were possible). Everyone else he kills were enemy combatants (ie: not unarmed prisoners) in a time of civil war.

So his murder count is either in the hundreds or the thousands (depending on just how many souls were in the Jedi Temple and the Tusken camp).

That's apart from anything in the EU of course...

The "Padawan" who takes out a few Stormtroopers, that was Lucas's son Jett wasn't it? He was about 12 at the time, but he looked quite a bit older than the little tykes that Anakin finds hiding. I guess he was exceptional for his age? The slaughter of the Temple would have also included not just Younglings, Padawans and normal Jedi hanging around, but also teachers and library staff, etc. hardly soldiers.

What Anakin did was akin to a Police officer breaking into his headquarters one day and killing everyone there, on secret orders from the Governor. Then going next door to the HQ's adjacent day-care and slaughtering the boy scouts and girl scouts that may have earned their rifle shooting and archery merit badges that summer.

[Kenoshi]

And another question - how would you hold Vader should you choose to imprison him?

The fact that he lacks arms in the OT means that its evident he's learnt to use the force without "gestures" meaning that the rayshield/immobilisation system used to hold Obi Wan would be almost completely negated. Any prison cell would have be fucking well built considering the damage he did to the med-chamber, and there better not be a guard anywhere nearby that he could influence...

Lets face it - he either turns and has many assassin droids with weapons trained on him 24 hours a day in case he tries something, or he is executed. And personally I think execution is the only safe bet.

Put him on permanent house arrest in his castle on Vjun, which is an overall inhospitable world. Make certain that no space craft are sitting around on the planet that could be hotwired, and make certain that no spacecraft are allowed to land there unless there is a substantial Jedi escort.

[Solauren]

Let's list Vader's on screen crimes

Revenge of the Sith
#1- Count Dooku
The Supreme Chanceller gave him a direct order "Kill him". He then told him it was okay.

#2- the Jedi Temple
He was following orders of the Supreme Commander of the Republic Government and Military
"Every single Jedi is now an enemy of the Republic. Do what must be done"
This meant EVERYONE with Jedi training that was still a part of the Jedi Heiarchy/organization. Younglings and Padawan's are part of that organization.
Not a Crime. Not a nice thing to do, but he was acting under the full authority of the law.

#3- The Seperatists
The Emperor ordered there death. He was the man with the authority to do that.

So, so far, all his crimes are stuff any member of the Republic military could have been ordered to do, or any special ops officer.

A New Hope
Let's see
Captured a rebel starship, boarded, and arrested the crew.
He then used what the Empire considered acceptable interagation techniques to try to extract information from a prisoner.
Given how that prisoner is his own daughter, you'd be hard pressed to get her to have her father charged on that. (I'm sure Luke could talk her out of it)

He shot down 4 X-wing's and 3 Y-wings (maybe some more off screen).
Hmmm, that's a grand total of 7 deaths, in the middle of a battle. You're not convincing me so far.

He never gave the order for the Death Star to fire. In fact, it was evident he gave 2 shits about it. "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The Ability to destroy a planet is insignificant when compared to the power of the Force"

Empire Strikes Back
Okay, he tortured 3 enemies of the state, and imposed martial law on a quasi-legal (if that) mining operation.
Torture was legal under the Empire, and seeing how the victims just became members of his extended family (I can't see Han or Chewie having Luke and Leia's father charged), I'd say that isn't going to hold up well.

He ordered the attack on a enemy military based. Standard military operation.
He even gave orders he wanted prisoners. He didn't want anyone dead.

Oh, and he dueled a man that was attempting to kill him.

Return of the Jedi
He took a guy that turned himself over to the authorities up to a space station, where after a duel he got his own hand cut off, and then proceeded to toss the Emperor down the reactor shaft.

I'm sorry, but a good lawyer (and he's DARTH VADER, you know how much money he has access too?) could get him off.

Hell, at least on Grand Admiral got off no problem with a plea bargain. Hell, Mara Jade, an confessed assassin, ended up marrying the hero of the rebellion.

Let's see, offscreen crimes I'm aware of.
Marvel Comics:
All military operations. No more 'mass murdered' then your typical fleet officer. Sure, he executed his men, but he was allowed to.

Shadows of the Empire:
Attacked a rebel base, and then blew up a criminal organization, and probably followed containment proceedures.

Others
No idea.

For all his evil majesty, Darth Vader has done jack shit that a military tribunal wouldn't go 'okay, 10 years, time served, next case' over.

Hell, if the Rebellion/New Republic let the following people off the hook, Darth Vader should get off

Mara Jade - Emperor's personal assassin
at least 1 Grand Admiral
Kyp Durron, on a rampage with the Sun Crusher. And unlike Darth Vader, he DID pull the trigger (and stole the ship to pull the trigger. That's premeditated)
the head of the Imperial Military under Thrawn (hell, they became allies with Paelleon)

They couldn't get Darth Vader for anything

[Noble Ire]

Solauren, you must remember that it would not be the Empire that was trying him, it would be the New Republic. Genocide was legal under Nazi rule, but that sure as hell didn't win top German officers arrested after the war any sympathy (unless I'm wrong on that, to which I would be very suprised.)

the head of the Imperial Military under Thrawn (hell, they became allies with Paelleon)

The NR never captured Pellaeon, and as far as I know, he never committed an act of genocide of any sort (and he wasnt the head under Thrawn, he was just the captain of his flagship.)

[Admiral Drason]

What about nearly destroying the Nohgri home world? He most likly killed millions or billions on Honoghr.

Vader had 20 years of unknown war crimes. We have no idea how many planets he had glassed over the years. The fact is he gave a Sith Lord the keys to the Galaxy.

Jedi do support the death penalty as seen in KOTOR II with the Jedi Council members trying to execute the Exile because he had unknowingly led the Sith to there location.

[Noble Ire]

What about nearly destroying the Nohgri home world? He most likly killed millions or billions on Honoghr.

The incident that destroyed Honoghr happened during the Clone Wars was an accident, having nothing to do with the then Anakin (I believe a CIS battleship carrying some biological weapon crash landed on the planet.)

Vader simply kept the planet from rebuilding, certainly not the nicest thing he'd ever done, but not genocide.

[DrkHelmet]

Since someone compared the Neuremburg trials, I would like to point out that not ALL of those indicted during the Neuremburg trials were convicted of war crimes. The difference between those convicted and those not convicted? The non-convicted ones followed direct orders from their superiors in the crimes they were indicted for, while the convicted were those proven to act of their own volition.
So the real question is, did Vader perform any actions of genocide of his own volition or was he following orders?

[Noble Ire]

So the real question is, did Vader perform any actions of genocide of his own volition or was he following orders?

This can be coupled with the previous point I raised; would Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker really be considered two different people? Should they be? If they are, then he's not complacent in any of the crimes committed after the death of Mace Windu, perhaps before that. If not, then Vader is responsible for all his actions, although those under the order of Palpatine might garner less severe judgement. Although, I dont recall any of Vader's actions outside of combat that were committed without the direct order of Palpatine behind them.

[Stuart Mackey]

Vader's a mass murderer on the scale of Hitler? Since when?

If you refer to my post..I did not say that Vader was a mass murderer like Hitler, I commented that Hitler would not be forgiven if he said sorry.

[wilfulton]

I think the idea of putting Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker on trial is wholly irrelevant. I think that Vader in the end actually embraces the inevitable. I'm not sure but what he actually wants it to happen, so that he might be at peace after all these long years of internal turmoil within that suit. I wouldn't be surprised if he too, like Padme, did not simply lose the will to live, and would die in confinement awaiting his trial.

It appears that he has come full circle from ATC, where he openly states that he seeks dominion over death, to ROTJ, where he succumbs to its embrace, admitting in the end that it is something greater even than himself. In effect, he commits suicide by removing his mask (or rather, having Luke do it), as he needs it to breathe. That was not important to him. What was important was to be able to see the face of his son, with the eyes he was born with, rather than the computer enhanced visuals of his mask.