The **** Official **** Stardestroyer Thread

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-09-01 04:20pm

Dark empire was a comic series wasn't it? Any way how much do you guys alow for artistic expression when it comes to comic series and cannon? I've read the cannon statments but what if the artist wanted a stardestroyer and just jazzed it up alittle with his own interpretation of one.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-09-01 04:38pm

Knife wrote:Dark empire was a comic series wasn't it? Any way how much do you guys alow for artistic expression when it comes to comic series and cannon? I've read the cannon statments but what if the artist wanted a stardestroyer and just jazzed it up alittle with his own interpretation of one.

If he wanted ISDs then he should of drew ISDs, no those are viewed different destroyers and cruisers.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-09-01 08:56pm

Sure, I agree that they sould draw exactly what they want to show, but that does not mean that an artist working on the comic series does that. What should the limit be in regards to the artistic expression and when should we start disregarding what we see in a comic book? As far as I can tell the only example of cruisers larger than a SD with the exception of a SSD is in comics right? So can we take the art literaly or do you alow for expression on the part of the person who draws it.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-09-01 09:01pm

Knife wrote:Sure, I agree that they sould draw exactly what they want to show, but that does not mean that an artist working on the comic series does that. What should the limit be in regards to the artistic expression and when should we start disregarding what we see in a comic book? As far as I can tell the only example of cruisers larger than a SD with the exception of a SSD is in comics right? So can we take the art literaly or do you alow for expression on the part of the person who draws it.

In take it literally, just like Mr. Saxton, face it, if he wanted ISDs he should of drew ISDs.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-09-01 11:32pm

This is exactly why comics shouldn't be used as canon.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-09-01 11:53pm

Commander LeoRo wrote:This is exactly why comics shouldn't be used as canon.

Whas wrong with comics they ar quite good visual sources, and those can be debate unlike novels.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-09-02 08:14pm

I have not read that many of the Star Wars comics, but in reading Mr. Saxton's site I noticed that alot, not all but alot of the other classes of ships are the background views of fleets. Thats why I asked the original question. The background vessels , if you will, have simular lines of a ISD but in small ways differ, is this artistic expression or a new class of vessel. My question did not apply to ships like the dominator or soverign class stardestroyers, they are obviously suppost to be different vessels.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-03 11:48pm

The problem is that they are sillouetes, we can't see if there are multiple ships, if there is some kind of platform IE a Golan, or if those ships are in a dock. As such, I do not agree with Dr. Saxton's reasoning.

Besides, it's not just DE where he pulls these from. For example, Levitan was clearly trying to potray ISDs, but Saxton uses scaling to claim them as another new class.

And then he claims there is no hange on the belly of the VSD in DE2, when it is there, it's even a darker green.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-04 12:01am

consequences wrote:stronger shields, but weaker hull, and they can't match the heaviest guns of an imperator

Lets do the math, shall we?

ISD2:
64 HTLs
60 MTLs
60 LTLS
unknown Ions
Total volley output: 415,000,000 MT + Ions

Republic:
240 HTLs (40 in batteries of 5, + 40 independent)
20 Heavy Ion Cannons
Total volley output: 1,500,000,000 MT + Ions

The Republic frickin smokes it. If you do an indepth comparrison, the Republic is the most powerful ship after the Executor class.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-04 12:04am

Jadeite wrote:What novel or novels was the Chimaera damaged and abandoned in, and then recaptured by Pellaeon?

It is merntioned in Gamer that a group of Imperial Loyalist slicers hacked into the Republic computers, forged and order for the Chimera to be decommissioned and disassembled, then captured it and brought it back to Pelleon as a morale builder after he lost his SSD in the Adumar campaign.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-04 05:27am

But it's stated the Republic class is not 2 times stronger, but as strong as an ISD II!!!

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-04 05:35am

If I recall correctly I should add.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-04 11:55am

Cpt_Frank wrote:But it's stated the Republic class is not 2 times stronger, but as strong as an ISD II!!!

But the numbers prove differently!!!

Feel free to check my extraordinarily simple math. 200 GT MTLS, 50 GT LTLs, 6250 GT HTLS

Numbers are correct. Even if you assume different values, you will end up with the Republic being far stronger.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-04 12:41pm

Nonetheless strange!!!
Should the Republic really be such a nasty piece o' ship???

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-04 04:43pm

Yes!!!

After all, it was fighting the warrlords and the Reborn Empereor when the ship was designed!!! Lot's oh Nasty ships it needed to deal with!!!

Can we stop with the 3 punctuation marks now??? Maybe switch to haiku instead???

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-09-04 08:48pm

Ender wrote:Yes!!!

After all, it was fighting the warrlords and the Reborn Empereor when the ship was designed!!! Lot's oh Nasty ships it needed to deal with!!!

Can we stop with the 3 punctuation marks now??? Maybe switch to haiku instead???

Eh, no the Republic Star Destroyers were designed after the Reborn Emperor...

AL · Post by AL » 2002-09-04 09:06pm

if i may where are we getting the numbers of tl for the republic class?????

AL · Post by AL » 2002-09-04 09:21pm

Are we even sure that there would be a Republic Class Star Destroyer? Many of the EU craft are based on WEG and we all know how accurate WEG is not!!!

I would argue that there would be no need for the New Republic to build Republic class Star Destroyers when they have the Mon Cal Star Cruisers that can go head to head with ISD'S.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-04 09:47pm

Captain Lennox wrote:
Ender wrote:Yes!!!

After all, it was fighting the warrlords and the Reborn Empereor when the ship was designed!!! Lot's oh Nasty ships it needed to deal with!!!

Can we stop with the 3 punctuation marks now??? Maybe switch to haiku instead???
Eh, no the Republic Star Destroyers were designed after the Reborn Emperor...

Incorrect. The new ships of the Republic fleet were all designed during and after the DE period. Read the Essential Chronology.

AL wrote:if i may where are we getting the numbers of tl for the republic class?????

Page 3 of this thread. Might be page 4.

Are we even sure that there would be a Republic Class Star Destroyer? Many of the EU craft are based on WEG and we all know how accurate WEG is not!!!

I would argue that there would be no need for the New Republic to build Republic class Star Destroyers when they have the Mon Cal Star Cruisers that can go head to head with ISD'S.

It is mentioned in passing in the BFC books.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-05 07:04am

Hmm btw, a thought just crossed my mind: Mon mothma wanted to decomission ECS, because she didn't want the republic to resemble the military dictatorship the Empire was.
But keep those Republican class in the navy which are stronger than Imperators?
With these ships as the mainstay of the fleet they probably had a naval force almost as strong as that of the Empire at its height!
Then the republican sd is nothing but a politically correct (ie small and harmless looking) version of a really nasty warship the Empire would have been proud of! They merely hide their military might.
God the New Republic's just so politically correct fucked up.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-05 11:58am

Cpt_Frank wrote:God the New Republic's just so politically correct fucked up.

No argument here.

Now a new topic:

According to the new ISD stats (from WOTC, no relevence to actual debate I know), the weapons payload of the ISD1 has been altered.

It now mounts 40 Point Defense lasers in addition to the standard 60 60 loadout.

Thoughts?

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-05 12:29pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:
God the New Republic's just so politically correct fucked up.
No argument here.

So I guess you agree?

It now mounts 40 Point Defense lasers in addition to the standard 60 60 loadout.

Probably mid-ranged, very accurate (ie good targeting systems) and about the yield as starfighter canons are.
Good to have them there nonetheless since now all 120 offensive canons can shoot at the Starfleet ships (ahem) while the point defense canons take down the missiles.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-05 04:32pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:
Cpt_Frank wrote:
God the New Republic's just so politically correct fucked up.
No argument here.
So I guess you agree?

About the NR being screwy? Yes.

It now mounts 40 Point Defense lasers in addition to the standard 60 60 loadout.
Probably mid-ranged, very accurate (ie good targeting systems) and about the yield as starfighter canons are.
Good to have them there nonetheless since now all 120 offensive canons can shoot at the Starfleet ships (ahem) while the point defense canons take down the missiles.

Yes, but how does this fit with all the accounts of torpedoes taking down shields (like it or not, we have to factor X-wing into this)? Are they perhaps only present on ISD1s? Also, is this more of Saxton's doing, as he was the one who pushed for PD cannons in ICS?

AL · Post by AL » 2002-09-05 04:34pm

How about realistic data of an ISD, ISD II

64 38cm sized turbolaser for turning emeny ships to swiss cheese.
Medium guns in the brim trenched.
at least 60 19cm turbo lasers number of emplacements could be more
at least 60 60mm laser cannons for point defense vs sf and missiles
at least 60 80 mm ion cannons for point defense defense to augment the point def lasers. Check out Saxtons sight about the ISD's in general and examin the movie models for accuracy.

vs

a smaller less armed Republic class should it exist. I would argue the Republic class wouldn't stand a chance vs an ISD or ISD II, so why waiste the money to build them when you already have a proven warship in the cal cruisers. Unless the New Republic is a big fan of Government spending. I'm still no convinced an RSD would even exist. I just don't place much faith in any of the eu writers. I know shame on me, perhaps if they made those books more realistic and gave them a story line consistant with Star Wars I would, Oh well enough of me I'm Ranting on and on and besides no one really cares anyway.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-05 10:29pm

I used those numbers in my comparrison.

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