Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

[Channel72]

As an aside, regarding the status of the New Republic after Episode 7 - my assumption was that (based on the overall story Abrams wanted to tell, along with Hux's stupid Nazi speech) it's 70% likely that the NR is supposed to be reduced to basically nothing, to the point that Ep 8 and Ep 9 would mostly revolve around an "underdog vs evil Empire" plotline, in the vein of the OT. However, Wookiepedia says:

Shortly afterwards, the First Order would ultimately destroy the New Republic's current capital on Hosnian Prime, seeking to end its unofficial support of the Resistance with a new superweapon dubbed Starkiller Base, which could fire a planet-shattering beam through hyperspace, and destroy an entire star system. With the destruction of the Republic's capital and a little portion of its fleet, the First Order stood poised to destroy both the New Republic and the Resistance if they did not destroy Starkiller Base.

I'm not sure where they get this information. Do they say "a little portion of its fleet" based on something like common sense, or is it based on EU materials, or some kind of inside knowledge about the thoughts of people who actually wrote the script or worked on the films? Regardless, I'm still worried that Ep 8 and 9 will sort of just sidestep the NR in favor of a more underdog OT-esque storyline.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, I get the sense that the NR is not in any way a galaxy-controlling power. That its capital is Hosnian suggests it doesn't have Coruscant, most of the film seems to take place in areas outside its control, and its got a serious rival in the First Order.

Hence why it could be knocked out so easily.

That said, I'd like it they had some surviving NR capital ships (maybe they were on patrol in another system or something rather than at home base) linking up with the Resistance so we can have a proper cap. ship engagement.

Edit: Another thing is weather the Empire exists in any form. The film's opening text suggest's its history, but I've read some stuff that suggests some of the Empire survived after RotJ, at least for a time.

If that's the case, it would be interesting to have the Resistance/NR team up in an uneasy alliance against the First Order. It could be seen as analogous to the US and Soviets teaming up against Hitler, or for a more contemporary parallel, all the nations who hate each other but are against IS.

[amigocabal]

Well, I get the sense that the NR is not in any way a galaxy-controlling power. That its capital is Hosnian suggests it doesn't have Coruscant, most of the film seems to take place in areas outside its control, and its got a serious rival in the First Order.

Hence why it could be knocked out so easily.

That said, I'd like it they had some surviving NR capital ships (maybe they were on patrol in another system or something rather than at home base) linking up with the Resistance so we can have a proper cap. ship engagement.

Edit: Another thing is weather the Empire exists in any form. The film's opening text suggest's its history, but I've read some stuff that suggests some of the Empire survived after RotJ, at least for a time.

If that's the case, it would be interesting to have the Resistance/NR team up in an uneasy alliance against the First Order. It could be seen as analogous to the US and Soviets teaming up against Hitler, or for a more contemporary parallel, all the nations who hate each other but are against IS.

What we do know is that the Death Stars were intended as much to keep the Moffs in line as to keep the Imperial population in line. Emperor Palpatine inspired fear. Grand Vizier Mas Amedda (who was confirmed to be the de facto regent of the Empire in Lost Stars) did not.

[Patroklos]

Yeah, that seemed to be the plan for the EU writers who thought about it more than two seconds. The Empire was always billed as too big and the rebels as too small to for the second to beat the first outright. Even with the end or ROTJ everything takes place in the outer rim an we know there is a vast Empire beyond the scope of the movies.

So if you make the Empire a fractious entity held together by the Emperor you can explain that invincible Empire away by having it implode on itself, and the Rebels cleaning up. The Mutiny as it was known. In the vain of ANH's clone wars reference, we don't need to see it to have our imaginations run wild. I was perfectly happy seeing Moffs and Admirals destroy each other in colossal capital ship battles in my mind's eye (as opposed to a movie showing or book telling me). But then you had to have shit like the resurrected emperor, the minimalism of books like the Bacta War and the like, who just couldn't let that perfectly plausible explanation be.

[Abacus]

As I've speculated before about the state of the galaxy following the Battle of Yavin and prior to the Battle of Endor...

If you're interested in the Disney Canon version of what happened immediately afterward, the Twilight Company book covers this in part. Basically the Rebellion decides "we've got them on the run now!" and launches a massive assault into the Mid Rim, they capture some territory, and the Empire's goes all "lol nope!" and kicks their ass back into hiding in the Outer Rim. There's more but I would recommend either reading the book or looking through the dedicated thread.

Yup. Twilight Company was and is most excellent. Alexander Freed is a good author and obviously a fan who feels comfortable in the environment he works with. He has a much better appreciation for the scope of the conflict. If I were a Disney Exec, I'd be pointing towards him to lead up any writing for books to fill in details between ROTJ and Force Awakens.

[Abacus]

The only really confusing part is as to why JJ made it so that Han, Finn, and the others could actually *see* the planets blowing up...even though the system that was blown up was suppose to be on practically the opposite side of the galaxy!

In universe - it's a hyperspace weapon. It could very well be visible from many lightyears away due to hyperspacial funkyness.

Out of universe - JJ has a bad habit of doing that. Look at the Star Trek reboot where you can see Vulcan blow up from Delta Vega.

Would you care to go back and re-read what you wrote? Maybe you'll see how nonsensical it sounds.

"[It's] a hyperspace weapon[,] it could very well be visible for many light years away due to hyperspacial funkyness"?



Anytime a ship disappears into hyperspace, it disappears -- there is no trail of light or spectrum that a pursuer can then follow like following frakking Hansel and Gretel. When a hyperspace weapon is fired, it doesn't leave behind a trail that it's end point makes visible. It's from the MID RIM to the CORE for fraks sake.

[The Romulan Republic]

Nowhere in the film, as I recall, is it stated to be from the mid rim to the core. If that's some EU stuff, I'd put the blame on whoever came up with it, not on the film makers.

[Abacus]

Novelization of the film. Check it out some time.

[The Romulan Republic]

I don't make a point of reading the novelizations. I have only a moderate interest in stuff that doesn't actually make it into the films and tv shows.

In this case, though, I'd put the blame on the author, or whoever was giving them their instructions.

[Abacus]

I don't make a point of reading the novelizations. I have only a moderate interest in stuff that doesn't actually make it into the films and tv shows.

In this case, though, I'd put the blame on the author, or whoever was giving them their instructions.

Kind of a strange forum for someone to be on, and arguing in, who isn't versed with more than the films and tv...

[The Romulan Republic]

I don't make a point of reading the novelizations. I have only a moderate interest in stuff that doesn't actually make it into the films and tv shows.

In this case, though, I'd put the blame on the author, or whoever was giving them their instructions.

Kind of a strange forum for someone to be on, and arguing in, who isn't versed with more than the films and tv...

Oh, I've looked over some of the EU books. Played some of the games too. But I don't feel obligated to read everything. Certainly I didn't go rushing off to buy the novelization as soon as it came out. And I very much doubt I'm the only person here for whom that is true.

And as to weather I should be on this forum, I really don't give a fuck about your opinion on the subject.

[Abacus]

Oh, I've looked over some of the EU books. Played some of the games too. But I don't feel obligated to read everything. Certainly I didn't go rushing off to buy the novelization as soon as it came out. And I very much doubt I'm the only person here for whom that is true.

And as to weather I should be on this forum, I really don't give a fuck about your opinion on the subject.

Then you're going to miss out on a lot of details and information at times. And yeah, that's fine if you don't care, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

[RogueIce]

As an aside, regarding the status of the New Republic after Episode 7 - my assumption was that (based on the overall story Abrams wanted to tell, along with Hux's stupid Nazi speech) it's 70% likely that the NR is supposed to be reduced to basically nothing, to the point that Ep 8 and Ep 9 would mostly revolve around an "underdog vs evil Empire" plotline, in the vein of the OT. However, Wookiepedia says:

Shortly afterwards, the First Order would ultimately destroy the New Republic's current capital on Hosnian Prime, seeking to end its unofficial support of the Resistance with a new superweapon dubbed Starkiller Base, which could fire a planet-shattering beam through hyperspace, and destroy an entire star system. With the destruction of the Republic's capital and a little portion of its fleet, the First Order stood poised to destroy both the New Republic and the Resistance if they did not destroy Starkiller Base.

I'm not sure where they get this information. Do they say "a little portion of its fleet" based on something like common sense, or is it based on EU materials, or some kind of inside knowledge about the thoughts of people who actually wrote the script or worked on the films? Regardless, I'm still worried that Ep 8 and 9 will sort of just sidestep the NR in favor of a more underdog OT-esque storyline.

That looks like a total ass pull, considering their cited source for that is the movie itself, which clearly gives a very different impression than a "little portion" of the Republic's cherished fleet being blown to space-atoms.

The only really confusing part is as to why JJ made it so that Han, Finn, and the others could actually *see* the planets blowing up...even though the system that was blown up was suppose to be on practically the opposite side of the galaxy!

In universe - it's a hyperspace weapon. It could very well be visible from many lightyears away due to hyperspacial funkyness.

Out of universe - JJ has a bad habit of doing that. Look at the Star Trek reboot where you can see Vulcan blow up from Delta Vega.

Would you care to go back and re-read what you wrote? Maybe you'll see how nonsensical it sounds.

"[It's] a hyperspace weapon[,] it could very well be visible for many light years away due to hyperspacial funkyness"?



Anytime a ship disappears into hyperspace, it disappears -- there is no trail of light or spectrum that a pursuer can then follow like following frakking Hansel and Gretel. When a hyperspace weapon is fired, it doesn't leave behind a trail that it's end point makes visible. It's from the MID RIM to the CORE for fraks sake.

Given that's basically Pablo Hidalgo's explanation (he of the Lucasfilm Story Group and in a position to comment on such matters), TRR is not all that far off.

I suppose he (Hidalgo) could have been facetious in his reply, and until it's said in a book somewhere it probably doesn't count as 100% Official Canon. But that's the explanation we have currently.

[Vympel]

^
His entire point is that the movie is too much like ANH, along with not enough exposition to explain the political situation, which everybody already acknowledges. However, even that point is overstated. He starts off being pretty convincing, showing us BB8 and R2-D2 wondering the desert, carrying the MacGuffin - but then his point quickly gets derailed as he has to pull in various plot parallels from different parts of ESB and ROTJ to keep up the "just like ANH" theme.

Regardless, his overall point is valid: TFA is definitely too close to the plot structure of the originals, and the lack of political context is a big sore point. I think everyone can agree that is the greatest failing of TFA. The people that like the film simply don't care - the characters are great and it's so much of a fun Star Wars film that the similarities and lack of political context are basically minor annoyances. The lack of context is also mitigated to an extent by the fact that we know it's supposed to be a trilogy, and later movies can of course fill in the blanks.

The Prequels on the other hand, were original stories, and very different from the OT, which is an awesome feature in isolation - but the people that don't like them simply can't get over their failings, which amount mostly to the characters being too bland and uninteresting, the villains lacking any emotional context, and (most unforgivably) the entire fall of Anakin being shitty because the acting sucks and the character is unlikeable. It really comes down to what you want out of a Star Wars film. If you don't care that much about the characters, but just want cool world building and an original storyline, then yeah, the Prequels will definitely be more enjoyable to you.

Also, I agree - the Starkiller base sucks. The whole thing is a mess and shouldn't have been in this film - if there had to be a First Order superweapon, it should have been saved for later or at least been acknowledged to be something the Empire originally created and the First Order simply made use of. I can also appreciate the point about people watching Star Wars a few years down the line - if you watch them in order, then you watch the end of ROTJ, followed by the end of TFA - the similarities of Han and co. taking down the shield generator while the rebels blow up the Death Star may be a bit too much.

I have a tough time taking seriously any criticism of TFA being worse than the prequels on the basis of 'not enough exposition of the political situation'. The notion that this is more important than TFA's far more charismatic and likable leads, far superior chemistry between them, far more exciting, well written* (in terms of dialog alone it is better than any of the prequels) script, a villain who we actually have a reason to give a shit about from the start (to name a few things) - simply doesn't wash with me. The prequels gave us one movie which was a near total waste of time (Phantom Menace) and weighed down with a truly miscast / poorly-directed? child actor (a decision that totally undermined any chance of getting drama out of a great many scenes, nevermind abandoning the chance for something cool like mirroring the danger of training Luke too old in TESB - Anakin was too old at fucking eight), a second film with possibly one of the worst executed love stories in mainstream cinema I can remember, and a third film left scrambling to pick up the pieces and being almost too little, too late.

And in particular it is absolutely true that Anakin of AotC and RotS is a fairly unlikable character, which undermines the entire enterprise.

Also, if we're honest, the ending of ANH is just as riddled with problems introduced via the script writer favoring drama over plausibility. Leia takes the Falcon to Yavin IV, despite strongly suspecting they're being tracked. Then for some reason they don't immediately begin evacuating the base on Yavin IV, instead relying on a 1 in a million chance that they'd be able to exploit the exhaust port flaw. Then after they blow up the Death Star, they stay around for an award ceremony, instead of immediately evacuating anyway - since what's to prevent the nearest Star Destroyer from showing up and blowing their base up from orbit, etc. etc. Yes, I realize there are all kinds of rationalizations available that have popped up over the last 30 years, but I've never found any of them particularly convincing, and even so if this sort of shit happened in TFA, the film would still be criticized for forcing us to come up with rationalizations in the first place.

The point is, people are a lot softer when it comes to the OT, because we've had like 30 years to sort of "absorb" the films, and so a lot of these plot points are things we just take for granted, or else we forgive because it was like the 70s.

Agreed - we've had decades to apologise for Episode 4's glaring narrative flaws**, and it deserves those apologies because its a great movie. I don't think TFA deserves less.

*Can anyone remember a single part of the prequels that was actually funny? As in, the cinema burst out in laughter (laughing with the movie, not at the movie). In TFA, every time I've seen it there have been big laughs at, off the top of my head:

- BB-8 attacking Finn;
- Finn's "I'm with the Resistance";
- BB-8 giving Finn the thumb's up;
- Rey's "that was lucky!" on Han's freighter;
- Han trying to slime his way out of the confrontation with the gangsters;
- Chewie and the medic; and
- Finn and Han's "we'll use the Force!" exchange.

When was there a joke or funny exchange in the prequels that ever fucking landed? Jar Jar stepping in poop? Jar Jar breaking something? Sure, if you're into slapstick and toilet humor (i.e. you're a child), I suppose TPM has you covered. I think AotC got one laugh out of the audience with Obi-Wan mind-tricking the deathstick dealer? I'm reaching.

Unintentional laughs were big though. The midnight screening got a big laugh when someone in the audience called out "bye, Jar Jar!" in Padme's funeral scene. Then there was the audible groan that washed over the audience when Padme and Anakin were in their apartment and Padme said "I'm so much in love", that was kind of funny.

**Like Leia comforting Luke about Obi-Wan's death - the old man who he's known for all of a day, while Leia is dealing with the apocalypse of her entire world, or Luke getting shitty at Han for not believing in the Force when he had literally never heard of the Force until earlier that day.

[BabelHuber]

I have a tough time taking seriously any criticism of TFA being worse than the prequels on the basis of 'not enough exposition of the political situation'. The notion that this is more important than TFA's far more charismatic and likable leads, far superior chemistry between them, far more exciting, well written (in terms of dialog alone it is better than any of the prequels) script, a villain who we actually have a reason to give a shit about from the start (to name a few things) - simply doesn't wash with me.

When viewing TFA, I got a completely different view:

The prequels at least had a good background story I cared about. The execution could have been better, though. George Lucas should just have written the scripts and hire some good directors. But I can understand that he wanted to do everything, SW was his baby after all.

To me, TFA just looks like Disney is trying to milk the SW saga for profits, nothing more.

The plot kicked me out of SoD multiple times:

Han Solo can make a hyperspace jump right through the shields of Starkiller Base.

If this is possible, why the fuck does anybody need such superweapons at all? You could just use hyperspace-missiles to lay waste to any shielded planet (and to Starkiller Base).

Also, for me it looked like this was a pathetic way to get Han Solo there, like 'we need to get Han Sole there, so let's just let him jump right through the shield, and don't think any further'

The same goes for Rey using the Jedi mind trick - hey, she is not a trained Jedi, but let's give her the according powers anyways, who cares?

Why did Luke go into hiding again? Because Kylo Ren went to the dark side? So first Luke freed the Galaxy from the Sith, then he gave them free hand to re-conquer it?

The villains were just pathetic, Kylo Ren is the worst SW villain ever. He just looked and acted like an overstrained little boy. The cinema was laughing when he offered to train Rey.

And let's not even talk about that Tarkin-wannabe with the baby face. He and Rey looked like they should both be returned to some Kindergarten.

I would have been able to ignore the stupid plot if the villains wouldn't have been so laughable, but this combination killed the movie for me.

Also, the whole plot look like the act of a coward - 'let's just stick as closely as possible to the story of ANH, the fans will like this'. This is probably good for Disney's profits, but bad for SW.

And finally, after the destruction of the Republic, we have the ANH-galaxy back for Ep 8: An empire with a Sith-imperator and his masked apprentice, a Tarkin-wannabe, Luke and Leia merged into Rey, Fin as successor to Han and Luke as Ben kenobi the second.

They just need to create a superweapon with an achilles heel, then Disney can recycle the plot of ANH again.

Edit: Regarding pathetic vaillains, I have forgotten the Stormtrooper-general with the chrome armor. You can just point a weapon at her, then she does everything you want. She should have said 'kill me if you want, but I won't lower the shield'. But of course she had to me as lousy a villain as the rest of the gang, so at least this is consistent.

[Vympel]

When viewing TFA, I got a completely different view:

A completely wrong view, but I'll allow it.

The prequels at least had a good background story I cared about. The execution could have been better, though. George Lucas should just have written the scripts and hire some good directors. But I can understand that he wanted to do everything, SW was his baby after all.

Yeah, see, I can't understand someone who thinks the background story is more important than execution, given you basically just said he can't direct. And no, he shouldn't have written the scripts.

Han Solo can make a hyperspace jump right through the shields of Starkiller Base.

If this is possible, why the fuck does anybody need such superweapons at all? You could just use hyperspace-missiles to lay waste to any shielded planet (and to Starkiller Base).

Also, for me it looked like this was a pathetic way to get Han Solo there, like 'we need to get Han Sole there, so let's just let him jump right through the shield, and don't think any further'

I'm sorry, but if the phrase 'hyperspace missiles' comes up in my thinking about whether a movie has a comprehensible plot, I don't think its a huge mark against it.

The same goes for Rey using the Jedi mind trick - hey, she is not a trained Jedi, but let's give her the according powers anyways, who cares?

Its almost as if something awakened! Do you think anyone felt it?

Why did Luke go into hiding again? Because Kylo Ren went to the dark side? So first Luke freed the Galaxy from the Sith, then he gave them free hand to re-conquer it?

Yes, let's not leave Luke to explain himself in the second or third film, let's judge him before he's even opened his mouth.

The villains were just pathetic, Kylo Ren is the worst SW villain ever. He just looked and acted like an overstrained little boy. The cinema was laughing when he offered to train Rey.

Oh please. The worst SW villain ever? Really? Yes, the villain who actually has a connection to the main cast and some actual emotions and readily discernible motivations, he is clearly inferior to the walking lightsabre without a personality that is Darth Maul, or the guy who showed up in the last act of Episode 2 and disappeared before the first act of Episode 3 was over. Or hey, the CGI droid/cyborg coughing coward with four spinnning lightsabres! That's simply absurd. Kylo Ren is an interesting antagonist who we actually have a reason to care about, as opposed to the prequel's endless procession of out-of-the-loop disposable stooges.

And let's not even talk about that Tarkin-wannabe with the baby face. He and Rey looked like they should both be returned to some Kindergarten.

I'm sorry, you just honestly put to me that Kylo Ren is the worst SW villain ever, that it is followed up with this sort of inane argument simply compounds the inanity.

I would have been able to ignore the stupid plot if the villains wouldn't have been so laughable, but this combination killed the movie for me.

Also, the whole plot look like the act of a coward - 'let's just stick as closely as possible to the story of ANH, the fans will like this'. This is probably good for Disney's profits, but bad for SW.

Leaving aside how completely overplayed this 'criticism' is, how is it bad for SW?

[Borgholio]

Would you care to go back and re-read what you wrote? Maybe you'll see how nonsensical it sounds.

"[It's] a hyperspace weapon[,] it could very well be visible for many light years away due to hyperspacial funkyness"?



Anytime a ship disappears into hyperspace, it disappears -- there is no trail of light or spectrum that a pursuer can then follow like following frakking Hansel and Gretel. When a hyperspace weapon is fired, it doesn't leave behind a trail that it's end point makes visible. It's from the MID RIM to the CORE for fraks sake.

As stated already by RogueIce, that is in fact exactly the reason as given by the guy whose job it is to determine what is and is not canon in the franchise.

Plus, since we've never seen a hyperspace beam weapon work before, do you have a better explanation of how we can see it happen in-universe?

[BabelHuber]

A completely wrong view, but I'll allow it.

Wow, that's nice! Thank you so much!

Yeah, see, I can't understand someone who thinks the background story is more important than execution, given you basically just said he can't direct. And no, he shouldn't have written the scripts.

A shitty script doesn't get better with good execution. But yes, I said that George Lucas can't direct.

I'm sorry, but if the phrase 'hyperspace missiles' comes up in my thinking about whether a movie has a comprehensible plot, I don't think its a huge mark against it.

I think you got me wrong here: If a ship can hyperjump right through a planetary shield, so could a hyperspace missile.

Hence you wouldn't need any Death Star/ Starkiller Base, you could get rid of a planet via some missiles, even if it's shielded. So what's the point of this at all?

Its almost as if something awakened! Do you think anyone felt it?

Yes, but I didn't feel the Force awakening, but a contradiction to the established SW canon. For such things, a Jedi needs training. Luke couldn't do jack shit without his training - Obi Wan had to guide him for the destruction of the first Death Star and also had to help him on Hooth.

So Luke needed Ben/Yoda, but Rey doesn't.

Yes, let's not leave Luke to explain himself in the second or third film, let's judge him before he's even opened his mouth.

Yes, let's see how they'll justify this bullshit.

Oh please. The worst SW villain ever? Really? Yes, the villain who actually has a connection to the main cast and some actual emotions and readily discernible motivations, he is clearly inferior to the walking lightsabre without a personality that is Darth Maul

Darth Maul at least showed determination and skill. Kylo Ren is just an annyoing brat.

or the guy who showed up in the last act of Episode 2 and disappeared before the first act of Episode 3 was over.

Dooku at least was a villain, not a tantrum-throwing child.

Or hey, the CGI droid/cyborg coughing coward with four spinnning lightsabres! That's simply absurd. Kylo Ren is an interesting antagonist who we actually have a reason to care about, as opposed to the prequel's endless procession of out-of-the-loop disposable stooges.

General Grievous at least was something new, not a baby-version of Tarkin.

I'm sorry, you just honestly put to me that Kylo Ren is the worst SW villain ever, that it is followed up with this sort of inane argument simply compounds the inanity.

The fact that babyface-Tarkin is not the worst villain in TFA speaks volumes.

Leaving aside how completely overplayed this 'criticism' is, how is it bad for SW?

It's just the same old story again, nothing to see here. The SW universe is so full of potential, they should have done something new, something unexpected.

[Knife]

I think you got me wrong here: If a ship can hyperjump right through a planetary shield, so could a hyperspace missile.

Hence you wouldn't need any Death Star/ Starkiller Base, you could get rid of a planet via some missiles, even if it's shielded. So what's the point of this at all?

Perhaps they can but the Deathstar/Starkiller base one shots them. It's not a pinpoint tactical weapon, it's an AOE weapon. Jumping through the shields was not a big thing for me, hell the Xwings went through the Dearthstar's shields in ANH and no one popped a gasket on that. I'm less thrilled they used another Deathstar like Mcguffin but the shield thing is meh. They kind of telegraphed it anyway when earlier they showed Han jump the Falcon from the landing bay of the larger freighter to establish how good Han was, or how reckless I suppose.

Yes, but I didn't feel the Force awakening, but a contradiction to the established SW canon. For such things, a Jedi needs training. Luke couldn't do jack shit without his training - Obi Wan had to guide him for the destruction of the first Death Star and also had to help him on Hooth.

So Luke needed Ben/Yoda, but Rey doesn't.

Could be a couple reasons. One, yes she could be very strong in the force and able to do it off the cuff without training. Two, I subscribe to the Force being a sentient deity type thing in the SW universe, and perhaps it did it through Rey. Three, perhaps if she is Luke's kid, or some other Jedi Luke trained before the Order fell again, young Rey may have gotten some preliminary training as a child before she was dumped on Jakku. I'm sure there are other explanations as well.

Darth Maul at least showed determination and skill. Kylo Ren is just an annyoing brat.

Dooku at least was a villain, not a tantrum-throwing child.

That is the entire point though, Ren was a spoiled child throwing temper tantrums and playing at being a super villain. That was his character, and it was new and unique and ripe with potential for him to grow. They actually mixed it up a bit and for all the hub bub about how people are mad that TFA is so close to ANH people are mad they changed this part? lol.

[SpottedKitty]

Do they say "a little portion of its fleet" based on something like common sense, or is it based on EU materials, or some kind of inside knowledge about the thoughts of people who actually wrote the script or worked on the films?

That exact phrasing sounds to me more like it was written by someone who's almost but not quite fluent in English — that site's usually pretty good, but I have come across the occasional article that makes my inner copy-editor go <clunk>.

[Channel72]

Kylo Ren is an interesting antagonist who we actually have a reason to care about, as opposed to the prequel's endless procession of out-of-the-loop disposable stooges.

No, no you're not getting it. Kylo Ren obviously sucked because he didn't have enough lightsabers. He needed at least 4, possibly 6 lightsabers, all of different colors. And he didn't do enough backflips also. What the fuck was up with that? It's like, I paid to see backflips and lightsabers. Also could they at least have put in a fucking scene where he does a backflip while twirling 4 to 6 lightsabers? (And would it have fucking killed Abrams to put in some double-bladed lightsabers???) It's like I can't even understand Kylo Ren's motivations, because he doesn't have enough lightsabers. How am I supposed to understand that he's evil??? Yawn.

I'm thinking a better idea for a villain would be if he had a gun that shoots lightsabers. That way he can do backflips, while shooting lightsabers. That would help the audience understand that he's badass.

[Galvatron]

Well, I get the sense that the NR is not in any way a galaxy-controlling power. That its capital is Hosnian suggests it doesn't have Coruscant, most of the film seems to take place in areas outside its control, and its got a serious rival in the First Order.

Hence why it could be knocked out so easily.

That said, I'd like it they had some surviving NR capital ships (maybe they were on patrol in another system or something rather than at home base) linking up with the Resistance so we can have a proper cap. ship engagement.

My impression was that the Republic didn't deploy its fleet throughout the galaxy and remained in the capital's home system until they were needed elsewhere to keep the peace. In that sense, the fleet was like a surrogate for the Jedi Order and the Hosnian system was the equivalent of the Jedi Temple on Coruscant.

[Lord Revan]

I got the impression that the New Republic was going out of it's way to not be seen as "empire 2.0" so it could explain why most of it's fleet would in home system rather then around the galaxy.

[BabelHuber]

Perhaps they can but the Deathstar/Starkiller base one shots them. It's not a pinpoint tactical weapon, it's an AOE weapon. Jumping through the shields was not a big thing for me, hell the Xwings went through the Dearthstar's shields in ANH and no one popped a gasket on that. I'm less thrilled they used another Deathstar like Mcguffin but the shield thing is meh. They kind of telegraphed it anyway when earlier they showed Han jump the Falcon from the landing bay of the larger freighter to establish how good Han was, or how reckless I suppose.

In ANH it was explained that the Empire doesn't view a little fighter as a threat to the Death Star, so it lacks defenses in this regard. Hence the X-wings were able to slip through the shield and attack.

While in TFA, Han basically just said 'no problem, I'll simply hyper-jump through the planetary shield'.

And once you can do this, you can use strategic missiles to destroy planets. Or you use a tactical missile to just destroy the shield generator and then invade. So why would you need a Death Start or Starkiller Base? There simply is no point to this anymore.

Could be a couple reasons. One, yes she could be very strong in the force and able to do it off the cuff without training. Two, I subscribe to the Force being a sentient deity type thing in the SW universe, and perhaps it did it through Rey. Three, perhaps if she is Luke's kid, or some other Jedi Luke trained before the Order fell again, young Rey may have gotten some preliminary training as a child before she was dumped on Jakku. I'm sure there are other explanations as well.

Sure they are. But it contradicts what I have seen, that a Jedi needs training. This kicked me out of SoD, so I don't like it.

That is the entire point though, Ren was a spoiled child throwing temper tantrums and playing at being a super villain. That was his character, and it was new and unique and ripe with potential for him to grow.

And boring to watch for me. There is no tension this way.

They actually mixed it up a bit and for all the hub bub about how people are mad that TFA is so close to ANH people are mad they changed this part? lol.

No, Disney should have created a new story. Recycling a plot, but making the villain a joke doesn't cut it.

[Purple]

I was under the impression that jumping under the shields was a reckless and idiotically dangerous thing that could get you killed. And that the only reason Han did it because in both cases he would have been killed either way. And it's better to regret something you tried than something you didn't.