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Should be a pretty simple question. Do we know the names and histories of the most ancient Jedi or Sith? The ones who lived way, way back before the Empire, and the Republic, and so on?

Naga Sadow is the earliest Sith Lord that I remember. I don't know the exact period when he lived, but I know he was already an ancient Force ghost by the time Exar Kun became a Sith Lord, 4000 BBY.

Kaja Sinis and Darth Scarz. Respectively.

000 wrote:Kaja Sinis and Darth Scarz. Respectively.

Been praying at the temple of SuperShadow, have we?

I couldn't help it-- I was just been carousing the Wooki article on him. : P
Tres cool!

The actual first Lord of the Sith-- Sith'ari-- was King Adas, a rare black-skinned member of the Sith species who united the entire planet of Korriban some five millennia before the founding of the Republic.

The first Dark Lord of the Sith as we know the term-- that is, a Dark Jedi who took over the Sith race-- was almost certainly Ajunta Pall and/or one or more of his unnamed cohorts, possibly including an unnamed Dark Lord who favored full-body red armor and is depicted in the Dark Side Sourcebook.

The first Jedi was some monk on Tython, I suppose. Not nearly as much is known about early Jedi history as about that of the Sith.

Hold on, last I checked the Sith'ari was a prophecy for a Sith Lord who embodied everything they believed in would destroy the Sith and make them stronger.

Apparently, it's both. The excellent (IMO) SW Insider article entitled Evil Never Dies - The Sith Dynasties, "Sith'ari" is a Sith word meaning "Overlord", applied to King Adas because he was the first of the Sith to unite the whole species under one ruler. My guess would be that the same title was applied to the prophecy of the Sith'ari on the basis that he (or she) was expected to do something just as significant for the Sith, and thus warranted the same title.

According to the Ultimate Star Wars Chronology(old version), the oldest know Sith is Marka Ragnos

he ruled the Sith for a millenia until the fight between Naga Shadow and Lude Kresh

However, it is also hinted that he was not the first Lord of the Sith!

Yeah, Sith'ari means literally "Overlord," and was initially merely the title for the being who ruled the united Sith species. Since the fall of the original Sith Empire it went on to become the name for a prophesied perfect being, which is what it's better known for.

As a side note, Sith'ari is etymologically related to Jen'ari, which was the Sith word for "Dark Lord."

Anyone interested in further information of the Sith history ought to read Evil Never Dies, an excellent article by the estimable Abel Peña.

Lex: Marka Ragnos was, for some time, the oldest named Lord of the Sith, but he was never thought to be anywhere close to the oldest.

As I said earlier, King Adas would be the first Overlord (technically, the first Dark Lord of the Sith, although the term did not exist at the time) while Ajunta Pall was among the group of Human Dark Jedi who became the original Sith Lords as we know them. It's unknown if Pall was the very first, however, or if he shares the title with multiple others.[/i]

On a tangential note, where was the first instance that the Sith were referenced (out of universe)? I ask, because I can think of no reference to the Sith in the original trilogy, and have always just assumed that the Sith were an EU invention to begin with.

EnsGabe wrote:On a tangential note, where was the first instance that the Sith were referenced (out of universe)? I ask, because I can think of no reference to the Sith in the original trilogy, and have always just assumed that the Sith were an EU invention to begin with.

Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith. I believe it was coined in Empire, either the scroll or the novel. But that is the most known reference.

The ANH script or novelization, I believe. Either way, it's GL's invention (from a pre-existing word, of course).

000 wrote: -snip-

Lex: Marka Ragnos was, for some time, the oldest named Lord of the Sith, but he was never thought to be anywhere close to the oldest.

-snip-

If you had read my post, you would see that that was exactly what I wrote...

The ANH novellisation talks about Lord Vader as a Dark Lord of the Sith, and was published in 1976. I think the word is in the early scripts, but these weren't published for a good long time unless you happened to be someone George was pitching the film to.

Lex: I apologize for the misunderstanding, then.

Vader is named Dark Lord of the Sith in issue #1 of the Marvel comics as well.

The oldest Jedi I can recall are Xendor, who was a Jedi who fell to the Dark Side around the time of the founding of the Republic and raised an army called the Legions of Lettow (and might have been the first Dark Jedi ever); and Jedi Master Awdrysta Pina, who placed Xendor's lover Arden Lyn into a coma for 24000+ years after she mortally wounded him.

As for the Sith, Adas is the oldest I know of.

Nobody knew exactly what 'Dark Lord of the Sith' meant for a long time. Timothy Zahn, when writing the HTTE trilogy, originally wanted to call the Noghri 'Siths', but Lucas nixed that because he had ideas churning.

Since AOTC ICS and the Bentu numerology bit, doesn't that show that the old scripts and how the Bentu were the order which orginally discovered the Force valid?

The various sources are incredibly vague on the "true" origins of the Jedi, but is most likely a synthesis of various force traditions, including the Force Warriors of Tython, the monks of the Order of Dai Bendu and the paladins of the Chatos Academy.

Wow, speaking of ancient things, Darth Massacrus has managed to resurrect an ancient thread!

Xendor's article has him using the "Bogan" as the Dark Side of the Force, another term that I believe was coined by George Lucas but never really caught.

Wasn't the tem Ashla used by the ancient Jedi to describe the Light Side, just as Bogan was for the Dark Side?

DesertFly wrote:Wow, speaking of ancient things, Darth Massacrus has managed to resurrect an ancient thread!

Seriously, isn't that just par for the course by now? He's resurrected like half a dozen dead threads.

General Schatten wrote:

DesertFly wrote:Wow, speaking of ancient things, Darth Massacrus has managed to resurrect an ancient thread!

Seriously, isn't that just par for the course by now? He's ressurected like half a dozen dead threads.

And apparently, no mod has stumbled by yet...