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I'm sorry, this is a huge necro, but as there's some new info...

Chee has recently responded to questions pertaining to the size of the GAR and he is claiming that the following quote has been "misread":

AOTC ItW wrote:The first batch of clone divisions are ready for deployment; millions more are undergoing intensive performance evaluation.

Chee says that:

Tasty Taste wrote:They're talking about millions of clones, not millions of divisions.

Really? What is the subject? :X

He also said that:

Tasty Taste wrote:The 3 million figure is the number of active clones in the army.

+http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... &start=990

I'm f****** pissed. I'm now convinced that the EU is being mismanaged and I'm not going to buy more of that stuff.

Just make a new topic, because it does deserve notice.

So split, same title, and this is still rather sickening in terms of bald lack of any knowledge. Some vague wording but truly a bizarre mismanagement.

Part two of said topic

It's not just EU, is the whole continuity, surely the Second Battle of Coruscant showed us that there had to be more that three million. However, we'll just have to treat this the same way we did the length of the Executor.

EU being mismanaged? There's a shocker.
What it's writers have to say mean precisely jack and shit to me really, canon wise.

Can't it still be said that there are many armies, given the quote in the RotS ICS? That said, it looks like someone's suffering from a bad case of illiteracy; the subject of a sentence is carried over to the next clause if none new are stated, as far as I know.

Silly me. I thought the "controversy" was over months ago after Traviss and every one of her supporters had been refuted so thoroughly, and that LFL was sensible enough to see this. While stopping short of saying that one of their own writers was full of shit, I thought they would be smart enough to at least sweep the "3 million" nonsense under the rug, never to be mentioned again. I thought wrong.

Just why do they want to keep this retarded number so badly? Do they REALLY want a SW universe where the GAR is pathetically insignificant, the Separatists are even more pussy, and everyone is enough of a retard to fall for this pathetic "conspiracy?"

EDIT:

General Schatten wrote:However, we'll just have to treat this the same way we did the length of the Executor.

I said it while the debate was still raging. Don't expect this dumbass idea to be retconned away for another decade or so. If we keep fighting this crap, perhaps they'll finally get rid of it by 2017. As I said above, I thought I had been proven wrong on this idea, but once again LFL displays its organizational culture of stubborness, illogic and ass-covering.

Jim Raynor wrote:

General Schatten wrote:However, we'll just have to treat this the same way we did the length of the Executor.

I said it while the debate was still raging. Don't expect this dumbass idea to be retconned away for another decade or so. If we keep fighting this crap, perhaps they'll finally get rid of it by 2017. As I said above, I thought I had been proven wrong on this idea, but once again LFL displays its organizational culture of stubborness, illogic and ass-covering.

I hear it's always better late than never.

Yeah, I read that awhile ago. It is pretty damn stupid, but... meh.

I just personally rationalize the 3,000,000 "Grand Army" as the personal elite force of the Jedi Council and their favorites (the only Jedi we ever see, really), with the other quadrillions organized into other, larger armies.

I agree with Jim on this matter. Frankly, I don't see why we should go into another thread on the topic where it's really just going to add nothing new. We know the figure is full of shit and LFL ass-covering on this matter won't change for a while.

Ghost Rider wrote:Just make a new topic, because it does deserve notice.

So split, same title, and this is still rather sickening in terms of bald lack of any knowledge. Some vague wording but truly a bizarre mismanagement.

Part two of said topic

Alright, my apologies, GR.

Jim Raynor wrote:Silly me. I thought the "controversy" was over months ago after Traviss and every one of her supporters had been refuted so thoroughly, and that LFL was sensible enough to see this. While stopping short of saying that one of their own writers was full of shit, I thought they would be smart enough to at least sweep the "3 million" nonsense under the rug, never to be mentioned again. I thought wrong.

Yeah, but you were certainly not alone in believing that. I find it even more strange that Chee claims that the ItW quote has been "misread" (and he's forgetting all the other sources, not a good trait of a continuity editor IMO).

Jim Raynor wrote:Just why do they want to keep this retarded number so badly? Do they REALLY want a SW universe where the GAR is pathetically insignificant, the Separatists are even more pussy, and everyone is enough of a retard to fall for this pathetic "conspiracy?"

Apparently. What I find more disturbing is how the whole nature of the Clone Wars has changed, and I'm pretty damn sure that Traviss never sent GL a yes/no question asking him if he agrees on the concept that the Clone Wars was a "very small scale, brush fire war".

000 wrote:Yeah, I read that awhile ago. It is pretty damn stupid, but... meh.

I just personally rationalize the 3,000,000 "Grand Army" as the personal elite force of the Jedi Council and their favorites (the only Jedi we ever see, really), with the other quadrillions organized into other, larger armies.

My personal rationalization is quite simple: We know from the ROTS ICS that there are multiple "grand armies" and so I rationalize that each Grand Army consists of three million clones under the umbrella Grand Army of the Republic.

Vympel wrote:I agree with Jim on this matter. Frankly, I don't see why we should go into another thread on the topic where it's really just going to add nothing new. We know the figure is full of shit and LFL ass-covering on this matter won't change for a while.

I posted because I found a few things exceptional, that Chee maintained the three million figure so strongly and that he claimed that the ROTS ICS has been "misread" (it would be interesting to learn what the author thinks about that).

Apparently, this "misreading" lasted for three years, all the way into the printing of SW: Complete Locations. :roll:
I guess company pride is more important than admitting it made a stupid mistake, and will continue to look stupid as the number of simultanous CW battles increase.

What we can learn from this, is pretty simple. Either:

- The CIS are incompetant enough to waste billions of droids on each clone.
- The Jedi and non-clone troops don't realize they're hopelessly outnumbered in every possible way yet mysteriously keep winning battles.
- The Jedi are actively aiding Sidious in keeping the low numbers/impossible victories a secret, even though this would be counterproductive to the Order itself.

Or:

- The Clone Wars were actually not a galaxy-spanning series of battles involving the two largest armies ever assembled and with an enormous amount of clones, but a small set of special operations, and the clones were miniscule in numbers, making the whole thing a ripoff to anyone watching.

Mange wrote:Yeah, but you were certainly not alone in believing that. I find it even more strange that Chee claims that the ItW quote has been "misread"

I have an absolute ,verifiable source that says the quote is NOT
"misread". It was in fact, carefully considered by the people who put the book together, and Chee was not one of those people. As soon as I get permission to provide the source, you can use it in any forum where this comes up. Chee is full of shit.

While I don't believe this will be fixed any time soon (how long was the 8 km Executor around for, like 15 years?), and that it wouldn't do any good for us to go to SW.com (a.k.a. Dark Mooseshit's playground) and protest en masse, it couldn't hurt for those of you already there to put in a few words about this. Just explain (again ) how 3 million clones is not at all consistent with the portrayal of the Clone Wars in just about every official source.

It's obvious that the other side isn't interested in a real debate, but we should keep the voice of dissent alive. If it were for guys like Saxton, the 5 mile fallacy would never have been fixed, however late the correction came. By 2010 they might put up a public poll at SW.com asking what people think of the "3 million" number, and a couple years after that they might get around to a half-assed "compromise" number of 3 billion. But like General Schatten said, better late than never, right? Just be patient about this.

I think Chee knows how stupid this all is. But by looking at previous discussions with him, he seems to be the kind of employee who knows his place, and just toes the company line, whatever the "official" decision is at the moment. Chee seems to be reluctant to say anything that would imply that LFL screwed up, probably because he could get in trouble if he did. For example, when I asked him a simple question about K-Mac's online Dark Fleet Crisis FAQ, and how it's info about shared hulls in the New Class ships contradicted the Cracken's Threat Dossier pictures, he basically avoided the question and said he wasn't going to tell me what specific information was canon or not.

I remember asking about Home One's size and he answered with several size controversies at once, to clear most of the issues without actually saying anything new in the matter other than "it hasn't been looked at".

He was very polite in his answers, but I could tell he was doing a mental (-___-) smiley while writing. ;P

VT-16 wrote:I remember asking about Home One's size and he answered with several size controversies at once, to clear most of the issues without actually saying anything new in the matter other than "it hasn't been looked at".

He was very polite in his answers, but I could tell he was doing a mental (-___-) smiley while writing. ;P

I guess the powers to be are holding him on a tied leash. I wonder which nitwit holds the strings.

George Lucas needs to actually make definite statements about the EU. He needs to do more than just sign off on whatever bullshit the hacks they hire write. Either take a greater roll, or dont do it at all. This is simple professionalism here, it's not asking much.

If Lucas even KNEW what the fuck was going on, considering the way the movies are designed, do you think he would reallys upport this? He can, i presume, count so i also presume he must be able to tell that three million guys is fucking retarded when used to occupy or conquer an ENTIRE fucking galaxy. To say nothing that its...what, a fraction of the Red Army from WWII, which was ONE nation on ONE planet that wa s vastly less advanced than the Republic.

But Lucas doesnt know, or care, or consider any of this because he wants the cash the EU rakes in. And he is frankly willing to let people like Travissty run roughshod across the EU without pause.

Lord Poe wrote:

Mange wrote:Yeah, but you were certainly not alone in believing that. I find it even more strange that Chee claims that the ItW quote has been "misread"

I have an absolute ,verifiable source that says the quote is NOT
"misread". It was in fact, carefully considered by the people who put the book together, and Chee was not one of those people. As soon as I get permission to provide the source, you can use it in any forum where this comes up. Chee is full of shit.

Great! It would be good to see how Chee would react to that. Unfortunately, I was banned by DM a few months ago.

Mange wrote:Great! It would be good to see how Chee would react to that. Unfortunately, I was banned by DM a few months ago.

sw.com is worthless, now. Ply your case on gs.com.

I gave-up on the EU a while ago, this merely cements my decision further. I hope Lucas has fun with my no-money.

I haven't devoted serious time at Wookieepedia for a while now, due to real life obligations and other interests. I just checked the GAR article again today, since the "controversy" has been raised again. How long has McDumbshit's retarded idea that the "hundreds of assault ships" that invaded Muunilinst with sheer numbers were actually freaking LAATs been up there?

Jim Raynor wrote:I haven't devoted serious time at Wookieepedia for a while now, due to real life obligations and other interests. I just checked the GAR article again today, since the "controversy" has been raised again. How long has McDumbshit's retarded idea that the "hundreds of assault ships" that invaded Muunilinst with sheer numbers were actually freaking LAATs been up there?

It should be eliminated as nonsense.

I made some adjustments upon hearing about this. :P

18-Till-I-Die wrote:George Lucas needs to actually make definite statements about the EU. He needs to do more than just sign off on whatever bullshit the hacks they hire write. Either take a greater roll, or dont do it at all. This is simple professionalism here, it's not asking much.

If Lucas even KNEW what the fuck was going on, considering the way the movies are designed, do you think he would reallys upport this? He can, i presume, count so i also presume he must be able to tell that three million guys is fucking retarded when used to occupy or conquer an ENTIRE fucking galaxy. To say nothing that its...what, a fraction of the Red Army from WWII, which was ONE nation on ONE planet that wa s vastly less advanced than the Republic.

But Lucas doesnt know, or care, or consider any of this because he wants the cash the EU rakes in. And he is frankly willing to let people like Travissty run roughshod across the EU without pause.

Careful what you wish for. After all GL gave us the 200,000 clones (alright, he actually wrote units) in AotC.

Pull the other one, it has bells on it.

I'm not suprised,but I need to get a copy of my essay (original lost when computer was stolen) and update/finish it. And get somone more prominent to host it - I originally went solo because I didn't want it to be dismissed out of hand by people as being connected to anyone else, but now it looks like it needs more prevelance.

And if anyone is curious, this is largely the result of assclowns on spacebattles trying to stir this up to pick pointless fights.

Lord Poe wrote:

Mange wrote:Great! It would be good to see how Chee would react to that. Unfortunately, I was banned by DM a few months ago.

sw.com is worthless, now. Ply your case on gs.com.

clarification please? Over PM if needed