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This thread was inspired by recent discussions of the latest NJO books. Someone (I forget who) suggested that some of the old guard (Luke, Mara, Leia, Han etc) should die to make way for new blood. Chewbacca, of course, was killed by having a moon fall on him back in Vector Prime. Much of this discussion was spurred on by the insistence of the writers in bringing back Empire and Pre-Empire era characters, even when their ages make this questionable. Let's face it, even our heroes aren't getting any younger!
I know that some of this is contemplated and even attempted by a main character in the current NJO (I'm being deliberately vague here), but my questions to you are these:
1) Who should die? (You can nominate more than one if you like)
2) Why?
3) How should they die?
4) Where and when?

Let the assassinations begin!

They'll all die eventually obvoiusly, and Luke is already dead as of 142.

If you're asking about who should die in Legacy of the Force, I vote for all of 'em, except Lando and Leia. Lando can live, because I actually like him, and Leia should live out the rest of her life in miserable lonely semi-sanity.

The rest need to die, though. Mara ought to go first, preferably due to some sort of incompetence on Luke's part. Luke I'd like to see die in as inane a manner as possible, mostly to tweak fans. Han... Han I used to like, until he slipped into senility, so he can get some cliche blaze of glory or whatever.

The droids I don't really care about. They can probably live, or not. I did like that "Storyteller" short comic from Tales, but I'd probably rather it not become canon on general principle.

I don't really care about the "new generation," though-- most of them are either dead, boring, or annoying. I'd just like to see the old Yavin losers dead and buried so we can move on (well, backwards, timeline-wise) to more interesting stories.

Han.

He used to be cool. He was a fucking space cowboy who traveled around with a boss spaceship and a giant space bear-man.

Now...fuck, look at him...seriously go over to Wookiepedia and look up "house of Solo".

He's the guy in the far back looking befuddled, just to the right of Chewie. The one barely in the picture at all. That guy.

They made him into fucking Darryl MacPherson.

It boggles my mind that they didn't gracefully write those characters out, either by retirement (real retirement I mean) or glorious death in battle. But hey, the EU sucks.

Stark wrote:It boggles my mind that they didn't gracefully write those characters out, either by retirement (real retirement I mean) or glorious death in battle. But hey, the EU sucks.

While I do not concur with your overall sentiment, Stark, I must admit that I am also vexed that so few of the OT characters have found their ends. I actually liked Chewie's death; the specifics of the incident aside, it shook up the whole nature of the EU, made its characters seem volunerable again, opened the stage for newer characters to step up, and should have created some interesting character tension with the survivng "old guard" (of course, by and large, the NJO dropped the ball on the event's potential, one of the series' greatest failings).

If the EU had to continue on so long after the movie period, one would think that authors would start killing off major characters, or at least permanently placing them into retirement, as they did with Ackbar up until just before his end; its makes thematic sense (handing off the old to new), creates good story opportunities, and mitigates the inevitable drift of character personalities from those seen in the films. I'm honestly not sure why this has not been done more; more likely than not, though, its LFL thinking that products that can't lean on movie characters won't sell.

I'd like to see most of those listed go out in a blaze of glory, although I can see the sudden, pointless death of one, perhaps Leia, as a catalyst for some sort of end game. Still, I think letting Lando and C3PO survive would be acceptable; let them retire on some far off tropical world, far from the galactic stage. I don't think either would mind particularly, and its suits their characters.

If Leia died it'd fuck up both Luke and Han. Particularly if she died pointlessly.

Therefore I vote Leia.

Early death would be too easy for Leia. I want her to linger on and witness the death of everyone and everything she hold dear. If she showed up in Legacy as a crazy old crone I'd be quite pleased.

Lando's already off and retired. He's sitting on a mountain of credits with his wife right now and wisely avoiding the Galactic scene.

Han. I've only read a couple of EU books, and from what I've heard they're among the better ones, but Solo was still represented horribly. At least when Kyle Katarn got his balls removed, he got a lightsaber and some force powers to compensate... Nothing we can do can make up for what was done to that character, but at least they could let it end.

The only part about keeping Han and Leia alive that I've so far liked about post-post-ROTJ books, is that they get to see their entire world unravel. One kid is dead, the other's turned to the dark side, Han lost Chewie ages ago, the Galactic Alliance is turning into a pseudo-Empire and now they're on the run from a Galactic SS force run by the aforementioned Dark Side son.

In a way, some parts of their fate seems to be a bit in tune with that age old ROTJ original version, in tone if not in events.

All must die, and with them, the whole post-Endorian EU. Though keep Mara Jade alive, if there's anyone to be saved - she's waay to cool for this. I still remember how cool and tough she was back then when Zahn wrote her and how she stuck it up to Skywalker who, in the EU, is an uber-powerful whiner, almost all the time.

How should they die? Together, in a massive blast of a New Galactic War. Okay, too dark for SW, looks more like 40K. Then perhaps they decide to take part in an extragalactic exploration flight and get lost among the stars (to be later found dead on a peaceful world of another's Galaxy's republic).

When? The sooner, the better. EU, especially post-Endor, is getting on the nerves. The "main cast" repeating action especially.

000 wrote:If she showed up in Legacy as a crazy old crone I'd be quite pleased.

But she is a crazy old crone in real life as well...

If only one can live I hope it's Mara, however I'd rather they all kind of retire, Luke and Mara can drop back into the kind of role Yoda held pre-Clone Wars, just training younger Jedi, possibly diplomatic missions as well. Han, you know what maybe Han should die, the man's a shadow of his former self upstaged by every other character, it's pathetic and embarassing, however, he could also live out his days on whatever planet he and Leia call home. Leia, can go into semi-retirement leaving herself to do what she does in the New Republic in the political scene or just be a representative for the Jedi in the New Republic. I would've assumed Lando would've retired to his mountains of credits by now. As for the Droid Duo, leave 'em be, however, I would like to see them get brand spanking new chassis; I mean they've been in every movie, they deserve a reward.

Noble Ire wrote:

Stark wrote:But hey, the EU sucks.

While I do not concur with your overall sentiment, Stark..

I, on the other hand, do concur with your overall sentiment, Stark. Wholeheartedly.

All the drivel set after RotJ is garbage.

Kill Lando. He adds nothing to the story accept to provide help at weird times. Everyone else dies when Jace goes physco and calls up a Force Storm on Coruscant. Mara Jade survives, she has coolness.

At this point, I hope they all die.

Honestly this is akin to making Shatner put on the Kirk look for a fucking two thousandth time and having him waddle along.

I don't care at this point how good or bad they go...or if they just fade out of the EU, but given authors had both the Bantam and Del Ray era and they STILL need to use the original gang, it speaks far too much of the lack of talent.

Cykeisme wrote:

Noble Ire wrote:

Stark wrote:But hey, the EU sucks.

While I do not concur with your overall sentiment, Stark..

I, on the other hand, do concur with your overall sentiment, Stark. Wholeheartedly.

All the drivel set after RotJ is garbage.

I read The Truce at Bakura and it was one the blandest books I ever read, with a mostly meandering and convoluted plot that went nowhere, a crappy alien race, mostly boring and unlikable characters, with the original characters not doing much worthwhile. I trust the most of the Star War EU is like that?

Or worse. If Zahn didn't write it, it probably isn't worth your time.

Vaporous wrote:Or worse. If Zahn didn't write it, it probably isn't worth your time.

Unless one is willing to tolerate a great deal of substandard material for a few gems, I'm afriad that is for the most part true for novels set after ROTJ. However, there is a wealth of enjoyable material set before the OT, especially during the Clone Wars.

Big Orange, if your interested, I suggest searching this forum for EU recommendation threads. There are a dozen or so books that most people who are well read in the universe tend to enjoy, along with various other aspects of the universe, like some of the comics and the KOTOR series.

I will say this. If you are interested in EU, look to the reccomendation thread. There is still an okay gem mired in the crap that the EU has become.

Also take people's rants with a hint of the thought that many if not all these people, much like myself have been reading the material for more then a decade and have seen it spiral. The dislike was not because of a book, but a constant barrage of just poor plots, characterizations and finally just out and out wank of either minimalistic or plain bullshit. Taking this as the initial stance is foolhardy.

000 wrote:They'll all die eventually obvoiusly,

Lies. R2-D2 will continue forever, and grow, becoming the core of a vast machine-entity that runs the Galaxy as a secret Emperor.

Dark Horse is actually putting out its best material yet, I think. It's Del Rey that's taken to churning out utter shit in the past year or so.

Necron: Of course; he also has to make his way to the Milky Way and tell his story to one George Lucas.

I only voted for MAra Jade because none of the current hacks writing the EU would do any of the original characters justice.

Killing an old guard character now, just think of what you might open up? For Science's sake Karen Traviss may get the nod to write Boba Fett killing them ALL off. And we'd never fucking hear the end of it.

Han should die doing something incredibly heroric, like taking out a Superweapon or something

(Like he was supposed to in originally in Return of the Jedi).

Preferrably while in the process saving Luke from death, or redeeming Jacen from the Dark Side

Noble Ire wrote:

Stark wrote:It boggles my mind that they didn't gracefully write those characters out, either by retirement (real retirement I mean) or glorious death in battle. But hey, the EU sucks.

While I do not concur with your overall sentiment, Stark, I must admit that I am also vexed that so few of the OT characters have found their ends. I actually liked Chewie's death; the specifics of the incident aside, it shook up the whole nature of the EU, made its characters seem volunerable again, opened the stage for newer characters to step up, and should have created some interesting character tension with the survivng "old guard" (of course, by and large, the NJO dropped the ball on the event's potential, one of the series' greatest failings).

If the EU had to continue on so long after the movie period, one would think that authors would start killing off major characters, or at least permanently placing them into retirement, as they did with Ackbar up until just before his end; its makes thematic sense (handing off the old to new), creates good story opportunities, and mitigates the inevitable drift of character personalities from those seen in the films. I'm honestly not sure why this has not been done more; more likely than not, though, its LFL thinking that products that can't lean on movie characters won't sell.

I'd like to see most of those listed go out in a blaze of glory, although I can see the sudden, pointless death of one, perhaps Leia, as a catalyst for some sort of end game. Still, I think letting Lando and C3PO survive would be acceptable; let them retire on some far off tropical world, far from the galactic stage. I don't think either would mind particularly, and its suits their characters.

the problem is that Lucas has to allow them to kill off one of HIS characters. Like he allowed the authors to kill off one of his characters in NJO (Chewie)
Since that hasnt happend since i dont think we'll see our heros die in battle

I really liked how they killed off Akbar. Just when the NR/GFFA had figured out how to fight a space battle he was able to die after giving them the last help he was able to. I liked how he died in the background and we heard of it by "word" of another chacter.
If a character should die next is Mara. she weakend Lukes character

You know, if they're prohibited from killing the characters that doesn't stop them restraining themselves from using them. It's not a choice between 'kill off' and 'use in the lamest way imaginable': they could have ignored them, written them into retirement, any number of things.

Wait, the EU sucks. What am I thinking?