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Okay, say you have an Ysalamiri, and a Sith is standing near it, just outside of its bubble of influence. The Sith fires force lightning inward towards the Ysalamiri. Would the lightning just disappear as soon as it reaches the bubble?

OmegaGuy wrote:Okay, say you have an Ysalamiri, and a Sith is standing near it, just outside of its bubble of influence. The Sith fires force lightning inward towards the Ysalamiri. Would the lightning just disappear as soon as it reaches the bubble?

Yes, point of fact Jorrus tried to force-zap Mara and just that thing happened. The lightning went poof as soon as it hit the force bubble.

Which is why he starting chucking rocks at them with the force.

Oh, thanks, I didn't read that one I guess.

Mr Bean wrote:

OmegaGuy wrote:Okay, say you have an Ysalamiri, and a Sith is standing near it, just outside of its bubble of influence. The Sith fires force lightning inward towards the Ysalamiri. Would the lightning just disappear as soon as it reaches the bubble?

Yes, point of fact Jorrus tried to force-zap Mara and just that thing happened. The lightning went poof as soon as it hit the force bubble.

Also happened to Thrawn initially when they met him on Wayland. He tried to zap him, his Noghri bodyguard and Capitan Pealleon. The lightning he used kept vanishing when it hit the non force bubble the Ysalamiri generated.

I think Timothy Zahn misunderstood what the Force is supposed to be when he came up with the idea of Ysalamiri.

Okay, enough derailment. Please continue, gentlemen.

Cykeisme wrote:I think Timothy Zahn misunderstood what the Force is supposed to be when he came up with the idea of Ysalamiri.

Really, when he wrote the trilogy, the actual nature of the Force, was largely unknown. All he had to work with were a few mantras and platitudes from Yoda and Obi-Wan; nevertheless, you could argue that the whole "binding the galaxy together" element would effectively preclude the existance of Force-null organisms. Still, its not like there was any blatant deviation from or ignoring of the canon on Zahn's part, he simply took a somewhat odd view of it (which, with the advent of midiclorians in the PT, would seem to be at least somewhat more valid).

Noble Ire wrote:

Cykeisme wrote:I think Timothy Zahn misunderstood what the Force is supposed to be when he came up with the idea of Ysalamiri.

Really, when he wrote the trilogy, the actual nature of the Force, was largely unknown. All he had to work with were a few mantras and platitudes from Yoda and Obi-Wan; nevertheless, you could argue that the whole "binding the galaxy together" element would effectively preclude the existance of Force-null organisms. Still, its not like there was any blatant deviation from or ignoring of the canon on Zahn's part, he simply took a somewhat odd view of it (which, with the advent of midiclorians in the PT, would seem to be at least somewhat more valid).

That's what I was getting at; the Force is supposed to bind the galaxy together, and is supposed to be an integral component of living organisms. Wouldn't pushing it back create some sort of a "death field"?

The Force isn't simply just the magical field that grants certain individuals superpowers, either. It seems to affect the flow of events itself (fate, if you will) so that events happen the way the Force "wills" it to. I see it being more transcendant than the sort of thing that can be pushed back in a bubble.

Perhaps we need a dedicated discussion on what we all think the nature of the Force in SW is supposed to be.

We know that Force adepts can dampen other Force adepts' powers. It's possible that rather than pushing back the Force per se, ysalamiri counter any Force use within their range.

Darth Yoshi wrote:We know that Force adepts can dampen other Force adepts' powers. It's possible that rather than pushing back the Force per se, ysalamiri counter any Force use within their range.

Granted, but a species-wide ability to manipulate the Force in such an immeasurably powerful manner is rather peculiar.

Hell, the conclusion we've gone to is that Force strengh can't even be tied into genetics.. which makes vornskrs and ysalamiri even more bizarre.

Granted, but a species-wide ability to manipulate the Force in such an immeasurably powerful manner is rather peculiar.

No more peculiar than a Force-empty bubble, given our current understanding of the Force.

Hell, the conclusion we've gone to is that Force strengh can't even be tied into genetics.. which makes vornskrs and ysalamiri even more bizarre.

Well, we do know that Force abilities can be inherited. It may not be genetic, but something is being passed down.

I dont really mind the fact that ysalamiri dampens the Force - maybe some anti-Midichlorians in the beasties emit some radiation that dampens other living cells' access to the Force, I dunno- , but the lightning fizzle field takes the cake.

But I would have thought the Force enables a user to discharge natural electrical bolts via their Force-enhanced organic bodies. I would have thought the only way the ysalamiri can neutralize Force lightning is by dampening the user's access to the Force. If someone lets loose a lightning from outside the dampening field, the lightning would strike whatever's in their path. Lightning is lightning.

On the other hand, if "Force" lightning is a manifestation of the unknown energy field that "surrounds us and penetrates us and binds the galaxy together", and not true electrical energy (a super magical Force energy, if you will) you might want to find out where all the disappeared energy went. Conservation of energy anyone?

But the disappearing force lightning's part of continuity now so, them's the break.

Ysalamari are the kryptonite equivalent of Star Wars. It is a lame plot device that allow authors to place force users in danger without actualy thinking of creative ways to counter a jedi's abilities. Giving the jedi a kryptonite like weakness leads to lazy writting.

On a related note iI think the force has lost a lot of the charm it had in the original movies. There it was considered a mystical energy field that defied all scientific explanation. But in the prequels the force became like x-men powers with the introduction of midichlorians. The force is magic, introducing comic book style explanation weakens the foundations of the star wars story. The ysalamari sort of fall into this trap. While the Thrawn triology predate the prequels Zahn could have come up with a better idea than ysalamari. He is a very capable writter surely he could have thought of interesting ways for non force senstives fighting jedi.

Right on the money, Sarevok. Kryptonite.

Old Plympto wrote:I dont really mind the fact that ysalamiri dampens the Force - maybe some anti-Midichlorians in the beasties emit some radiation that dampens other living cells' access to the Force, I dunno- , but the lightning fizzle field takes the cake.

I find that quite a good idea, and it fits perfecty into modern science. Any single particle has an anti-particle, and the same may as well count for the Midichlorians.

I find that quite a good idea, and it fits perfecty into modern science. Any single particle has an anti-particle, and the same may as well count for the Midichlorians.

What about neutrons ? Do they have an anti particle too ?

Sarevok wrote:

I find that quite a good idea, and it fits perfecty into modern science. Any single particle has an anti-particle, and the same may as well count for the Midichlorians.

What about neutrons ? Do they have an anti particle too ?

Yes : anti-neutrons .

But midichlorians aren't subatomic particles. They're something which Lucas refers to as mitochondria analogues. Since there's no such thing as an anti-mitochondria, the analogy doesn't hold water.

But back to my argument, when I meant anti-midichlorian I was referring more to a totally different (as opposed to the a mirror image or opposite sides of the same coin kind of deal) intra-cellular organic creatures that blocks midichlorians' ability to allow their host creatures access the Force.

Perhaps something of the same phylum or class, but with totally different set of characteristics.

I'm not a biologist so feel free to correct my concept and terminology use.

But that assumes that midichlorians are in fact responsible for Force potential, when it's just as likely that midichlorian count is simply an indicator of Force potential.

I never liked the idea that ysalamiri create a bubble without the Force. I more like to think they disrupt active manipulation of the Force within a certain volume, but a sufficiently enlightened or powerful Force adept could punch through the interference. Similar to how the Yuuzhan Vong were on a "plane" or "frequency" of the Force disoriented from everyone else, so the Jedi could not sense them or directly manipulate them.

what would happen when you take an amount of ysalamiri and place them so that they would form a hollow sphere that has a total overlap in "forcebubbles"
would the centre of the sphere (where there is no direct influence of the ysalamiri but where the force is also blocked of becauce of the sphere) have useble force?

The Ysalamiri probably don't block the force completely. After all the vornskrs still appear to be able to sense force users inside the area of effect.

IIRC putting Ysalimari in proximity to each other expanded their no-force bubble. Not sure how, but I do remember that on their home planet in the places where they had more concentrated numbers the force dead zone extended several miles into space. Also there was at least one room in Thrawns palace that was protected by having them placed around the room at regular intervals

The Ysalimari might have been some sort of bioweapons created by the Sith, Rakata or another civilization from the early days of the Old Republic or beyond.

As for the force lighting disappearing before the bubble, I thought that Jorus's force lighting at least might have required exertion through the Force to maintain its direction, and as he very well couldn't exert force inside the bubble, his lighting dissipated.

Pelranius wrote:The Ysalimari might have been some sort of bioweapons created by the Sith, Rakata or another civilization from the early days of the Old Republic or beyond.

As for the force lighting disappearing before the bubble, I thought that Jorus's force lighting at least might have required exertion through the Force to maintain its direction, and as he very well couldn't exert force inside the bubble, his lighting dissipated.

Unlikely. The Thrawn Trilogy postulates that the ysalimari evolved their anti-Force bubble as a defense mechanism against vornskrs since on the planet Mykr (I believe that's how its spelt), the vornskrs are the dominant predators.

Fire Fly wrote:

Pelranius wrote:The Ysalimari might have been some sort of bioweapons created by the Sith, Rakata or another civilization from the early days of the Old Republic or beyond.

As for the force lighting disappearing before the bubble, I thought that Jorus's force lighting at least might have required exertion through the Force to maintain its direction, and as he very well couldn't exert force inside the bubble, his lighting dissipated.

Unlikely. The Thrawn Trilogy postulates that the ysalimari evolved their anti-Force bubble as a defense mechanism against vornskrs since on the planet Mykr (I believe that's how its spelt), the vornskrs are the dominant predators.

Actually, I don't recall anything saying that. The vornskrs could have been genetically engineered as well as the ysalamiri.

There is nothing in the TTT that states the ysalamiri were naturally evolved. The closest it came was Talon Karde speculating in a "maybe they evolved, maybe they didn't, who knows or cares" fashion.