More Proof Karen Traviss is a hack.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2007-02-06 03:49am

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/A_Two-Edged_Sword

Vader...training stormtroopers...IN LIGHTSABER COMBAT. Stormtroopers cloned from a Dark Jedi.

It's bad enough that she has ruined Boba Fett, almost as bad that she has allowed her Stormtrooper/Clonetrooper fetish to influence all of her writing...BUT LEAVE VADER OUT OF IT YOU HACK. This is fucking stupid. Get her away from the most iconic character in the franchise.

And if any Fandalorians are reading this, eat shit. You'd probably think it would be cool if Karen wrote a post-NJO novel about how Han Solo clones a dozen force sensitive motherfucking Chewbaccas from hair on the Falcon's couch cushions and has Boba Fett train them in bounty hunting.

Addendum:

Spelling edits

Post by **Gandalf** » 2007-02-06 03:52am

Well that's a new one.

Hopefully it lets more people see how wacky she can be, and it could also give Poe some more fodder.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2007-02-06 04:03am

I'm trying to envision a stormtrooper holding a lightsaber, but all I can see is stupid.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2007-02-06 04:08am

Frank Hipper wrote:I'm trying to envision a stormtrooper holding a lightsaber, but all I can see is stupid.

click the link to the Wookiepedia article, there's a picture of Vader with THREE troopers holding red bladed sabers.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2007-02-06 04:21am

Frank Hipper wrote:I'm trying to envision a stormtrooper holding a lightsaber, but all I can see is stupid.

IIRC the original drafts for Star Wars had troopers draw lightsabres (then called LASERSWORDS lol) and fight each other.

I don't think it's a stupid idea that troopers would have lightsabres, or a short lightsabre. But I do think it's a stupid way of writing it into the EU.

"LOL Vader teachs storm clones aint tat kewl or wat"

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2007-02-06 04:24am

Stofsk wrote: IIRC the original drafts for Star Wars had troopers draw lightsabres (then called LASERSWORDS lol) and fight each other.

I actually have one of the original images as drawn up by McQuarrie as part of a ScreenThemes package. It's neat but i'm glad GL decided not to give everyone swords.

I don't think it's a stupid idea that troopers would have lightsabres, or a short lightsabre. But I do think it's a stupid way of writing it into the EU.

"LOL Vader teachs storm clones aint tat kewl or wat"

Why lightsabers for troopers? It ruins a bit of the mystique plus Vibroblades are a little more practical.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2007-02-06 04:24am

Stormtroopers with lightsabers ? Are they joking ? I mean I have seen sarcastic Jedi Academy modders humour the player community with force using Stormtrooper mods. What the hell is happening to SW writters when they are turning a god damn joke into a serious novel.

I dont get the obsession with force users in imperial era. Original triology is supposed to be an epic face off between the last of the jedi and the sith. Two Jedi and two Sith are all that is left of their ancient orders to continue their milenea old conflict. Adding other non related Jedi to that messes up such a beautifuly crafted plot. If writters want massive Jedi versus Sith war they take look at the KOTOR era. I like the idea of full blown war between the sith and jedi and thanks to KOTOR we have that. There is no need to shit on original triolog for it.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2007-02-06 04:28am

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Stofsk wrote:IIRC the original drafts for Star Wars had troopers draw lightsabres (then called LASERSWORDS lol) and fight each other.
I actually have one of the original images as drawn up by McQuarrie as part of a ScreenThemes package. It's neat but i'm glad GL decided not to give everyone swords.

sharing is
caring

I don't think it's a stupid idea that troopers would have lightsabres, or a short lightsabre. But I do think it's a stupid way of writing it into the EU.

"LOL Vader teachs storm clones aint tat kewl or wat"
Why lightsabers for troopers? It ruins a bit of the mystique plus Vibroblades are a little more practical.

A lightsabre that isn't ignited can be attached to your belt and presumably doesn't weigh a great deal.

But the general point I was getting at is that a bladed weapon can be used for utility purposes. So a vibroblade can do that (or really, a vibroknife).

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2007-02-06 04:49am

Stormies with Laserswords

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2007-02-06 05:02am

Darth Fanboy wrote:Stormies with Laserswords

And...tower shields.

That is fucking cool.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2007-02-06 10:09am

I'm reading the Wookieepedia articles on those stories, and they don't even make sense.

If it's so easy to clone a Jedi, and have all the clones be full-fledged force users, why didn't Palpatine have a fucking army of Dark Jedi?

Wookieepedia article on Sa Cuis wrote:As a test, Emperor Palpatine asked Cuis to follow Darth Vader to the Parmel Sector and kill him. A short fight ensued, which ended with Cuis defenseless and backed into a corner. Vader Force choked Cuis and demanded to know who had sent him. Sa Cuis refused to answer despite being close to death, and Vader realized that he had found someone thoroughly loyal to his master.

As a result, Vader let Sa Cuis live long enough for Arkanian Microtechnologies technicians to take swabs and cell samples for cloning. Once the samples were collected, Vader decapitated him.

So, the Emperor sends a Dark Jedi to kill Vader, and Vader beats him down and threatens to kill him as a test of his loyalty. They find that he's a completely loyal servant, then they just kill him anyway? WTF?

Post by **Surlethe** » 2007-02-06 10:42am

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but since the Force isn't genetic, then why should clones of Jedi necessarily be able to use the Force?

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2007-02-06 10:53am

The ANH-infinities has Royal Guards wielding double-bladed laserswords (like Darth Maul), so this isn't something totally knew.

Still a bad idea, if you ask me.

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2007-02-06 12:18pm

So, the Emperor sends a Dark Jedi to kill Vader, and Vader beats him down and threatens to kill him as a test of his loyalty. They find that he's a completely loyal servant, then they just kill him anyway? WTF?

Also, they cloned the guy who lost. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2007-02-06 12:31pm

Gah!

The woman is like the poster-child for the RSA theory of canon.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2007-02-06 01:09pm

Another thing:

The first story is set 19 years befor ANH, and the second story is set 1.5 years later. The clones were obviously not made using the regular Kaminoan method, which takes 10 years.

However, didn't Zahn write it so that the Spaarti method produced insane clones, unless ysalamiri (who nobody knew about) were used? Problems with the Force-repelling lizards aside, at least Zahn was smart enough to come up with a way to keep Palpatine from cloning up armies of Dark Jedi.

How does Traviss explain how these clones were created?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-02-06 01:17pm

Someone send that idiot that this little clip

Guns > knives

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2007-02-06 01:44pm

Jim Raynor wrote: However, didn't Zahn write it so that the Spaarti method produced insane clones, unless ysalamiri (who nobody knew about) were used? Problems with the Force-repelling lizards aside, at least Zahn was smart enough to come up with a way to keep Palpatine from cloning up armies of Dark Jedi.

How does Traviss explain how these clones were created?

The insanity was only the result of speeding up the growth process to 1 month, it's not inherant in the Spaarti procedure. A clone can be safely grown in a minimum of 1 years time.

Regardless, this is a silly idea by Traviss...

Tanasinn · Post by **Tanasinn** » 2007-02-06 01:45pm

So, the Emperor sends a Dark Jedi to kill Vader, and Vader beats him down and threatens to kill him as a test of his loyalty. They find that he's a completely loyal servant, then they just kill him anyway? WTF?

Vader's a vengeful bastard. It's not out of character for him to kill someone simply because he or she annoyed him.

I mean, look at Captain Needa. He actually had the stones to fly to Vader's personal ship and admit blame for a failing to his face. That's gotta take some sort of guts, and Vader killed him anyway.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2007-02-06 01:58pm

Darth Servo wrote:Someone send that idiot that this little clip

Guns > knives

Better version.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-02-06 02:20pm

Doesn't proper lightsaber combat skill take years of training by Jedi from an early age regardless? And several hundred hours of it? Even more to add to the stupidity, where is Vader going to find the time to actually train all of these troopers when he has other duties to attend to?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2007-02-06 03:00pm

The sad part is that the story wasn't even all that bad, at least for Traviss. The cloned dark Jedi bit was quite stupid, but the characterization of Vader was actually fairly decent, and it gave him more depth than one is used to seeing in the EU. This is just another example of Traviss squandering her writing abilites, be it out of arrogance or a desire to insert "cool" stuff to feed her pet Fandolorians. I have no doubt that the former will come into play as well if anyone confronts her on the blatant continuity problems the tale creates.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2007-02-06 03:41pm

Jim Raynor wrote:Another thing:

The first story is set 19 years befor ANH, and the second story is set 1.5 years later. The clones were obviously not made using the regular Kaminoan method, which takes 10 years.

However, didn't Zahn write it so that the Spaarti method produced insane clones, unless ysalamiri (who nobody knew about) were used? Problems with the Force-repelling lizards aside, at least Zahn was smart enough to come up with a way to keep Palpatine from cloning up armies of Dark Jedi.

How does Traviss explain how these clones were created?

Well, since the problem is caused by clones having the same kind of Force-signature than their donator I wouldn't be surprised, if Vader or Palpatine could do some Force-mambojambo to bloc the effects of clone-madness.

However this quick growing of clones is another indicator, that Traviss is an inconsistent hack. If cloning of adults can be done in less than two years, what were the Kaminoans doing for ten years (wasn't it Ender, who suggested, that only the Commandos and ARCs take that long to train and the ordinary infantry-clone is grown in a few months, flash-learned and put into suspended animation?) and why were there only three million clones in the Grand Army of the Republic after that much time?

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2007-02-06 04:09pm

FTeik wrote:
Jim Raynor wrote:Another thing:

The first story is set 19 years befor ANH, and the second story is set 1.5 years later. The clones were obviously not made using the regular Kaminoan method, which takes 10 years.

However, didn't Zahn write it so that the Spaarti method produced insane clones, unless ysalamiri (who nobody knew about) were used? Problems with the Force-repelling lizards aside, at least Zahn was smart enough to come up with a way to keep Palpatine from cloning up armies of Dark Jedi.

How does Traviss explain how these clones were created?
Well, since the problem is caused by clones having the same kind of Force-signature than their donator I wouldn't be surprised, if Vader or Palpatine could do some Force-mambojambo to bloc the effects of clone-madness.

However this quick growing of clones is another indicator, that Traviss is an inconsistent hack. If cloning of adults can be done in less than two years, what were the Kaminoans doing for ten years (wasn't it Ender, who suggested, that only the Commandos and ARCs take that long to train and the ordinary infantry-clone is grown in a few months, flash-learned and put into suspended animation?) and why were there only three million clones in the Grand Army of the Republic after that much time?

Perhaps someone with a better memory than me can dig up the quote and source which said that the Kaminoans deliberately used their "ten year" clones as benchmarks.

Post by **Coyote** » 2007-02-06 04:57pm

I heard that the original idea was that the lightsabers really were just common energy swords, and it took no inherent or genetic specialness to use them-- you trained on them just like masses of sword-wielding fighters did back in the Medieval era.

Lucas's original idea, IIRC, was that on a spaceship, a blaster would be too dangerous, risking rupturing the hull, so inter-ship boarding parties would eschew blasters and use melee weapons-- in this case, ordinary swords that happened to be laser.

I don't know why he discarded the idea, although I'm sorta glad he did...