I have got a problem

[Admiral Johnason]

I stoped reading the SW novels around Vision of the Future. I would like to knw what happened and did I miss anything?

[Master of Ossus]

I stoped reading the SW novels around Vision of the Future. I would like to knw what happened and did I miss anything?

Some of the NJO books are somewhat interesting. Basically the NR gets its ass kicked by an extra-galactic race known as the Yuuzhan Vong. The Empire still exists, and it's still reasonably powerful, but the NR refuses to tag them and let them come into the ring for any length of time. Meanwhile, a group known as the Chiss lives in the Unknown Regions. They have vast fleets, advanced technology, and left-over Imperial know-how. Their war-machine was constructed to fight the Yuuzhan Vong when they finally came, and it has been building since the OT era. For some reason that is only touched on by the novels, the Chiss don't want to get involved and so they don't. Am I going too fast for you?

[Exonerate]

I hated the series by that author... I mean, her first book was the alien invasion from some other race... Now its another alien invasion... Then there's the fact that Chewie got killed by her

[Master of Ossus]

I hated the series by that author... I mean, her first book was the alien invasion from some other race... Now its another alien invasion... Then there's the fact that Chewie got killed by her

What are you talking about? A man wrote Vector Prime.

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah last I heard RA Salvatore is a guy .

But yeah MoO pretty much covered all the bases after VoTF.

Well...try out Vector Prime if you like it, you might enjoy NJO.

[Sea Skimmer]

Under no circumstances should Vector prime be touched. Ignore all NJO till Star By Star. It fills in all needed details and is the start of the good NJO books. All the ones after it save Destiny's way are quite good.. Because it centers mostly on one character you can skip it and not miss much, overall it was not a very good book.

[His Divine Shadow]

Meanwhile, a group known as the Chiss lives in the Unknown Regions. They have vast fleets, advanced technology, and left-over Imperial know-how. Their war-machine was constructed to fight the Yuuzhan Vong when they finally came, and it has been building since the OT era.

They do? I didn't know they where that powerfull, and I believe most of their tech came from the Imperials who brought them up to that level in the first place?

[Master of Ossus]

Meanwhile, a group known as the Chiss lives in the Unknown Regions. They have vast fleets, advanced technology, and left-over Imperial know-how. Their war-machine was constructed to fight the Yuuzhan Vong when they finally came, and it has been building since the OT era.

They do? I didn't know they where that powerfull, and I believe most of their tech came from the Imperials who brought them up to that level in the first place?

The Chiss told Luke in Vision of the Future that they had fought things in the Unknown Regions that the NR could never hope to defeat. Assuming that they did not absolutely destroy their own war-machine in the process of fighting these (in which case they will have had at least three years to recover, as of the current NJO story, and probably as many as seven years), then they have more powerful fleets than the NR.

The Chiss also must have more advanced technology than they did when the Empire left them. When the Empire was last there (GAT campaign), the Imperial technology was approximately on-par with the NR technology of the era. It was only more advanced because of the Wayland facility that GAT discovered. When the Chiss re-emerged, their starfighters are superior to those of the NR in the present era (ie. XJ X-Wings) by being both faster and more maneuverable, while retaining most of the firepower (if not all of it). Compare these to Pelleon's remarks in Dark Force Rising, in which he was worried about his TIE Interceptors engaging A-Wings (because the A-Wings were faster than "even those accursed X-Wings"). Assuming that Pelleon was worried about his starfighters engaging a speedier enemy, TIE Interceptors were less fast than the A-Wings, which in turn are outrun by the modern XJ X-Wings.

NTM that the Chiss fleets appear to be HIGHLY disciplined, veteran units as we have seen.

[DocMoriartty]

The Chiss told Luke in Vision of the Future that they had fought things in the Unknown Regions that the NR could never hope to defeat. Assuming that they did not absolutely destroy their own war-machine in the process of fighting these (in which case they will have had at least three years to recover, as of the current NJO story, and probably as many as seven years), then they have more powerful fleets than the NR.

NTM that the Chiss fleets appear to be HIGHLY disciplined, veteran units as we have seen.

Sounds like stupid writing to me. The NR covers an area tha dominates the ENTIRE galaxy. The Chiss are a race who occupy a space small enough to exist in the unknown regions. The Chiss fighters shown in the book are close enough in tech level to current X-Wings that it would be up tot he pilots to decide the issue.

So that means that overall the Chiss are not several orders of magnitude mor advanced than the NR or the Empire. So now simple logic says that a space nation much smaller in size than the NR (prob about the size of the Remnent) cannot produce orders of magnitude of more gear than the NR or Remnent can with the same amount of resources.

Where does that leave us? Well the Chiss cannot have much of a tech edge on the NR, and the Chiss cannot in any way have a numerical edge on the NR.

So the Chiss's statements about being able to defeat foes the NR would have no chance against are the moronic sputterings of an arrogant buffoon.

So if Luke had not been the polite Jedi Master that he is and scanned this guy while talking he would have instantly known the guy was LYING HIS FUCKING ASS OFF.

Now if this does not turn out to be the case then the author of this book is the biggest flinger of shit since my last visit to the primate house of the zoo for writing such pathetic illogical and impossible drivel.

[DocMoriartty]

Don't take my statement as any sort of attack on you. I am merely irritated by such shitty writing.

[His Divine Shadow]

The Chiss told Luke in Vision of the Future that they had fought things in the Unknown Regions that the NR could never hope to defeat. Assuming that they did not absolutely destroy their own war-machine in the process of fighting these (in which case they will have had at least three years to recover, as of the current NJO story, and probably as many as seven years), then they have more powerful fleets than the NR.

I thought it was rather too hyperbolic like "we've seen shit you wouldn't fucking believe is out there", I didn't get the idea that the NR would be millitarily powerless against them, unless they spoke of the Yuuzhan Vong, and ofcourse the NR was in shitty shape.

When the Chiss re-emerged, their starfighters are superior to those of the NR in the present era (ie. XJ X-Wings) by being both faster and more maneuverable, while retaining most of the firepower (if not all of it)

To me that seems like a TIE Defender in performance.

And TIE Interceptors, well they where not that special.

NTM that the Chiss fleets appear to be HIGHLY disciplined, veteran units as we have seen.

Yes though that seems to be a natural trait, discpline and such.

[DocMoriartty]

BTW, a Mig-21 is both faster and more maneuverable than a F-4.

Are you telling me that automatically means the Mig-21 is a better plane?

In modern combat speed and avionics are most certainly 2nd place to electronics and firepower when it comes to determining which is a better fighter.

[DocMoriartty]

[quote="His Divine Shadow]
Yes though that seems to be a natural trait, discpline and such.[/quote]

How wonderful the Chiss are the intergalactic goose steppers of the galaxy.

[Master of Ossus]

BTW, a Mig-21 is both faster and more maneuverable than a F-4.

Are you telling me that automatically means the Mig-21 is a better plane?

In modern combat speed and avionics are most certainly 2nd place to electronics and firepower when it comes to determining which is a better fighter.

What features does the Chiss claw-craft lack that are present in XJ X-Wings? In the horrible Dark Journey, we learn that Chiss claw-craft also have comparable range to XJ X-Wings, and that they can operate independent of a base of operations for considerable lengths of time, even when engaged in occasional combat situations. If anything, they are significantly more advanced than the modern NR fighters.

BTW, the thing about the Chiss occuppying a smaller territory is not really relevent. We're not sure what resources there are out there, but the Galaxy proper has been stripped of its resources for at least the last 25,000 years, and probably much earlier than that. The Unknown Regions, meanwhile, are largely unexplored and retain their resources. The Chiss Empire stretches for about 100 or 150 sectors (with 50 or more inhabitable planets each), and their war-machine has been untouched by the massive civil wars that have rocked the rest of the Galaxy for the last few decades (first the Clone Wars, then the Rebellion, and then the warlords after that, and then Thrawn and the reborn Emperor, and then another set of warlords, and then continuous war with the Empire, wars with the Ssi-Ruuk and a group of smaller threats like the Yevetha, and conflicts with other neighboring species until finally the YV show up). The Chiss have conquered virtually all of the Unknown Regions, and are now digging in and preparing their warships for their eventual emergence. Sorry, but I don't really see why a fleet that is made up of a group of war-torn and largely undeveloped areas of the Galaxy HAS to be much more powerful than a VERY fresh, military society that exists away from the conflagrations at the heart of the Galaxy, particularly since it's been building up and marshalling forces for the last several decades. Although I think that the fact that the Chiss are not yet engaged with the YV IS shitty writing, I don't have a problem with their alleged fleet strengths.

[DocMoriartty]

Except that your quote contradicts itself.

The Chiss by their own arrogant statements have been fighting wars with forces so damn powerful they say that the NR would fall to those forces. How can you be building forces up for decades while fighting these wars. Big nasty wars like this mean two things:

1. You expend lots of ships and fight really hard.

2. You use up lots of resources on those planets you have.

BTW, their 500 to 750 planets is nothing in numerical comparison to the NR. Hell the Emperor gave over more planets to the Corporate Sector to run.


No matter how you cut it the Chiss cannot be what they claim to be without some of the worst writing ever imagineable.

You want my opinion?

The Chiss are no different than those super aliens from Stargate SG-1. The ones called the Asgard with the big eyes. They are both powerful races who are bluffing in hopes that no one ever calls them on their bluff.

BTW - Someone said the Chiss knew about the YV and were planning for them. How did they know about them in advance?

[Joe]

Yes, Dark Journey is baaaaaad.

Actually, I assumed the Chiss had not yet involved themselves in the YV war because of their utter rejection of aggressive war. Since the Chiss themselves have not yet been attacked by the Vong, it doesn't seem unreasonable that they would prefer to stay out of the conflict, given their ideology.

[DocMoriartty]

BTW, where did you get the bizarre idea that the NR is largely made up of warn torn UNDEVELOPED sections of the galaxy?

[His Divine Shadow]

BTW, the thing about the Chiss occuppying a smaller territory is not really relevent. We're not sure what resources there are out there, but the Galaxy proper has been stripped of its resources for at least the last 25,000 years, and probably much earlier than that.

Pretty much impossible to deplete I'd say, unless you're imagening billions of deathstars in the olden days

[Master of Ossus]

Except that your quote contradicts itself.

The Chiss by their own arrogant statements have been fighting wars with forces so damn powerful they say that the NR would fall to those forces. How can you be building forces up for decades while fighting these wars. Big nasty wars like this mean two things:

1. You expend lots of ships and fight really hard.

2. You use up lots of resources on those planets you have.

BTW, their 500 to 750 planets is nothing in numerical comparison to the NR. Hell the Emperor gave over more planets to the Corporate Sector to run.


No matter how you cut it the Chiss cannot be what they claim to be without some of the worst writing ever imagineable.

You want my opinion?

The Chiss are no different than those super aliens from Stargate SG-1. The ones called the Asgard with the big eyes. They are both powerful races who are bluffing in hopes that no one ever calls them on their bluff.

BTW - Someone said the Chiss knew about the YV and were planning for them. How did they know about them in advance?

The NR is threatened by the Yevetha, who controlled on territory with a fleet about twice the size of the Imperial fleet at Endor--WITHOUT the Death Star. Claim it's bad writing if you want, but that represents an astonishing lack of technological development.

Besides, I assumed that they fought all of their grand wars with Grand Admiral Thrawn at the helm, and have since been digging in and constructing their starships. Again you assume that the quotes contradict themselves when there is another possibility that you have not considered.

Finally, the Emperor Palpatine knew about the Yuuzhan Vong from their incursions along the Rim. It's evident that he told Thrawn about them, and Thrawn began constructing a military in the Unknown Regions to fight against them when they arrived.

[Master of Ossus]

BTW, where did you get the bizarre idea that the NR is largely made up of warn torn UNDEVELOPED sections of the galaxy?

The fact that it is. If you look at the small number of industrialized worlds, and compare them with the vast number of Mid-Rim worlds (which, if Naboo is any example, are not developed for industry), the worlds in the Mid-Rim that contribute little or nothing, the Outer Rim which contributes virtually nothing, you find that they are a highly centralized Galactic power, with the vast majority of their industrial hubs in a handful of systems. Apparently their manufacturing capabilities were completely devastated by the Galactic Civil War, and the smaller regional battles that immediately followed it.

[Joe]

I don't know if Emperor Palpatine knew about the Vong invasion. Not enough evidence.

[Master of Ossus]

I don't know if Emperor Palpatine knew about the Vong invasion. Not enough evidence.

Tim Zahn is quoted as saying that he did.

[Joe]

I don't know if Emperor Palpatine knew about the Vong invasion. Not enough evidence.

Tim Zahn is quoted as saying that he did.

Can you provide me with a link/copy of the quote? Not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to see it for myself. Quite the retcon, if it is indeed true.

[His Divine Shadow]

The NR is threatened by the Yevetha, who controlled on territory with a fleet about twice the size of the Imperial fleet at Endor--WITHOUT the Death Star. Claim it's bad writing if you want, but that represents an astonishing lack of technological development

What?
This is Star Wars, not Star Trek where people think it's reasonable for technology to always advance at a steady rate every generation or so.

Finally, the Emperor Palpatine knew about the Yuuzhan Vong from their incursions along the Rim. It's evident that he told Thrawn about them, and Thrawn began constructing a military in the Unknown Regions to fight against them when they arrived.

Hmm, the Imperial millitary would have flattened them without any help, the Yuuzhan Vong would have been so outnumbered and outproduced that they'd be cursing their gods after the first month of war.

[Chris OFarrell]

Meanwhile, a group known as the Chiss lives in the Unknown Regions. They have vast fleets, advanced technology, and left-over Imperial know-how. Their war-machine was constructed to fight the Yuuzhan Vong when they finally came, and it has been building since the OT era.

They do? I didn't know they where that powerfull, and I believe most of their tech came from the Imperials who brought them up to that level in the first place?

The Chiss told Luke in Vision of the Future that they had fought things in the Unknown Regions that the NR could never hope to defeat. Assuming that they did not absolutely destroy their own war-machine in the process of fighting these (in which case they will have had at least three years to recover, as of the current NJO story, and probably as many as seven years), then they have more powerful fleets than the NR.

Meh?

"With respect Sir, I was commissioned in this household to serve and uphold the ideals of Grand Admiral Thrawn."
"Which did not, I might point out, include stupidity" the General observed coldly. "I expected better of you - not an uncommen dynamic between fathers and their sons."
Colonel Jagged Fel acknowledge the reprimand with a small bow and a faint, wry smile.
"You were well trained by Chiss tacticians," Barron Fel continued. "Tell me; do we have the ships, weaponry, personal or for that matter, the knowedlge needed to take on these invaders?"
"We do not" Jag admitted.

Note they are only talking about a limited support of the war effort against the Vong, not taking on the whole dang Vong fleet themselves. And even then they don't have the ability to do so.

Everything about the Chiss I saw indicates that they lack any real significant forces in terms of titanic amounts of capital ships or firepower but rely on skil, intelegence and tactics to carry the day. An example is the Alpha Red bioweapon, the Chiss provide the intelegence and help needed to make a massive bioweapon to wipe out all the Vong all over the Galaxy. Rather then send ships, they send expertise.