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One could ask that on many occasions in the movie no doubt, but I'll confine myself to the guy's idiocy in Jabba's palace, since this is the first time it's occured to me, oddly.

After walking in all Jedi badass, choking Gamorreans and threatening Jabba, he suddenly pulls a completely random move of Force-yanking someone's pistol. What the hell?

Was he planning to shoot Jabba? Even assuming a Hutt would die to the one bolt Luke could get off before being shot down, that accomplishes nothing. More importantly, if he was planning to assasinate the guy, why do it with a blaster instead of his saber? It's not like he was subject to a search for weapons when entering the palace.

Intimidate him? Yeah right. Even without the trapdoor, he'd get shot down in short order.

Show off his l33t Jedi skilz? If he wanted to look all Jedi-powerful, again - why not the lightsaber? Jabba's troops DID shit themselves when he ignited it during the skiff scene.

One can argue that he thought R2 would be in the area to give him the saber. If that was the case, he should've backed down the instant he realized a certain blue dome was nowhere to be found.

Maybe he knew about the trapdoor and was planning to get captured? Yeah, right. And was planning on bare-knuckle brawling with a Rancor? Gimme a break.

Or just thought he'd be snatched up the moment he grabbed the blaster? That's even stupider, since the chances of being shot on the spot was a lot greater.

Did the Gang even have a plan at all in place? Or was Luke stupidly improvising after Leia got caught trying to sneak Han out? That'd fit the ANH farmboy, not the post-ESB humbled Jedi.

In short, am I missing something here, or does the Skywalker family share the Windu legacy of thrilling heroics in place of planning?

I beleive he knew something was in the pit and wanted to put in so he could kill it and get Jabba mad. He didn't know WHAT was in the pit just something. Perhaps the blaster was to help him kill it.

I remember that the entire whole affair was... the usual Jedi's way of following the will of the Force... Especially when there are a thousand ways the "plan" could have gone wrong.

Faqa wrote:Did the Gang even have a plan at all in place? Or was Luke stupidly improvising after Leia got caught trying to sneak Han out? That'd fit the ANH farmboy, not the post-ESB humbled Jedi.

In short, am I missing something here, or does the Skywalker family share the Windu legacy of thrilling heroics in place of planning?

the plan was for Luke to get captured (albeit if his talk worked then it wouldn't matter) but it was all planned that Luke would walk in because the whole time R2 had his lightsaber. Before Leia and Chewie walked in R2 had his lightsaber.

It seems to me that the Rebel Alliance would only allow thier greatest members to go into Jabba's Palace not only to get Han back but do something for the Alliance. (ie kill Jabba) which would put an end to the crime syndicate and maby foster some support for the Alliance on Hutt subjugated planets.

the plan was for Luke to get captured (albeit if his talk worked then it wouldn't matter) but it was all planned that Luke would walk in because the whole time R2 had his lightsaber. Before Leia and Chewie walked in R2 had his lightsaber.

Again - if the plan was for Luke to be captured WHY GRAB THE BLASTER? It's not like Jabba would've let him walk away, all impressed with the Jedi bit. Heck, according to the novelization(I think), Jabba has KILLED Jedi in the past, he's not gonna be afraid of one now.

Grabbing the blaster ups the odds of Luke being shot, not of being captured. Trapdoor was actually a lucky break as far as that went.

I beleive he knew something was in the pit and wanted to put in so he could kill it and get Jabba mad. He didn't know WHAT was in the pit just something. Perhaps the blaster was to help him kill it.

And yet his first act when hitting the pit is to make a dash for the door?
Not to mention that counting on being allowed to keep the blaster is the height of insanity, when it's all that's standing between survival and being rancor food.

If this had all been spur-of-the-moment, I'd understand the mistakes. But it's not like Luke randomly walked into Jabba's palace. He walked in there, talked to Jabba in a way he KNEW was unlikely to shake him, then nearly got himself killed in an entirely avoidable fashion.

Luke is either crazy or has some plan here I can't puzzle out.

of course that is AFTER he knows what is in there now isn't it?

Isolder74 wrote:of course that is AFTER he knows what is in there now isn't it?

How does he know what's in there? He didn't witnes Oola's death. All he has to go by is possibly sensing life down there, and Jabba's statement "I shall enjoy watching you die."

The Original Nex wrote:

Isolder74 wrote:of course that is AFTER he knows what is in there now isn't it?

How does he know what's in there? He didn't witnes Oola's death. All he has to go by is possibly sensing life down there, and Jabba's statement "I shall enjoy watching you die."

You said after in the pit he went for the door or did I understand incorrectally?

of course that is AFTER he knows what is in there now isn't it?

It's not really helping his position here if he walked into that NOT knowing what he'd be facing. Even knowing it's a rancor is sufficiently moronic, but if, for all he knows, it could be any one of a thousand nasties in the known galaxy, it's even STUPIDER.

Would've served him right if it had been a Vapaad in there or something.

I'm still not buying that Anakin's idiocy is genetic, though.

Faqa wrote:

of course that is AFTER he knows what is in there now isn't it?

It's not really helping his position here if he walked into that NOT knowing what he'd be facing. Even knowing it's a rancor is sufficiently moronic, but if, for all he knows, it could be any one of a thousand nasties in the known galaxy, it's even STUPIDER.

Would've served him right if it had been a Vapaad in there or something.

I'm still not buying that Anakin's idiocy is genetic, though.

Well many ofr those 'nasties' the blaster might have helped him with. nevertheless he did manage to kill the thing getting them out of the palace which is was was needed for the plan to work. Whatever was in the pit Luke knew he needed to kill it to get the party taken outside.

Well many ofr those 'nasties' the blaster might have helped him with. nevertheless he did manage to kill the thing getting them out of the palace which is was was needed for the plan to work. Whatever was in the pit Luke knew he needed to kill it to get the party taken outside.

He needed to piss Jabba off. I'm pretty sure there are saner ways to do that than taking down his pet Rancor while armed with a rock.

And again, counting on the blaster for HELP is stupid in the extreme, since it assumes nobody will grab it before sending him down. And again, that's besides the huge assumption that firing off a blaster in that tense enviorment won't just get him turned into char on the spot.

We're assuming that by this stage, he's not mastered the trick Lord Vader used to get Han into that situation, of being immune to blasters. Given that Luke's supposedly able to take Vader in Yoda's estimation (and indeed, he does, with a little dark side help) at that point, his plan might have been, "Laugh as Jabba's goons shoot at me, then point the gun at his eye." Yes, Jabba's killed Jedi before; It's a fair bet he's never encountered a Jedi whose training consists entirely of combat skills, capable of taking down a Dark Lord of the Sith.

It's probably a fair bet that even without a lightsabre, Count Dooku or Lord Vader could go through those guys - including Boba Fett, much as I like him - like dysentry through a eighteenth century regiment, perhaps Luke was simply rating himself at that level.

The lightsabre isn't the be all and end all of jedi combat; one of the most powerful clone wars masters, thousands of years old, had never been seen to use hers, after all; she just killed her enemies by hurling small objects at speed toward them. If he'd brought his weapon openly, he'd have to fight his way in from the outside, by which time, Jabba could always use the threat of killing his prisoners to stop Luke. Assuming Luke could avoid being shot down, his approach would have denied Jabba that leaverage.

We're assuming that by this stage, he's not mastered the trick Lord Vader used to get Han into that situation, of being immune to blasters. Given that Luke's supposedly able to take Vader in Yoda's estimation (and indeed, he does, with a little dark side help) at that point, his plan might have been, "Laugh as Jabba's goons shoot at me, then point the gun at his eye."

He gets shot with a blaster later on, though, on the Skiff, while in full battle mode. He might've been overconfident as to his skills, but again - this doesn't fit post-ROTJ Luke.

Yes, Jabba's killed Jedi before; It's a fair bet he's never encountered a Jedi whose training consists entirely of combat skills, capable of taking down a Dark Lord of the Sith.

"Bargain rather than fight - he's no Jedi"

Not Jabba's words, but still rather representative. The slug's lived through the Clone Wars, where you can bet the Jedi performed a wide variety of widely publicized heroic exploits. They're known as combat badass mofos.

I reaallllly doubt Jabba would be surprised at blasters not working on a Jedi.

Faqa wrote:He gets shot with a blaster later on, though, on the Skiff, while in full battle mode. He might've been overconfident as to his skills, but again - this doesn't fit post-ROTJ Luke.

True, but on the other hand; they are just jumped up thugs. Anakin slaughtered a ton of Tuskens using things like force walls, before becoming a full jedi, after all; presumably Luke could do something similar here.

"Bargain rather than fight - he's no Jedi"

He wasn't. Luke's training in the whole 'diplomacy' department was clearly next to nonexistant compared to a normal Jedi.

Not Jabba's words, but still rather representative. The slug's lived through the Clone Wars, where you can bet the Jedi performed a wide variety of widely publicized heroic exploits. They're known as combat badass mofos.

I reaallllly doubt Jabba would be surprised at blasters not working on a Jedi.

Yes. But what else would he have nearby at that point? Blasters, and things like thermal detonators, perhaps, which would kill him. He might have been able to try anti-jedi measures before that point, hence coming in unarmed, but once Luke was actually in the room...

Let's imagine it was Count Dooku there instead of Luke. While I doubt there's much thought in it, and it's just a stupid scene, there's backing for a jedi being able to survive such things in other sources. See the rediculously exxaggerated Utapau duel in the RotS novel, for example, with Kenobi dancing out of the way of blaster bolts and dropping to the floor so fast that droids shoot each other.

In truth, I suspect the scene would go a lot better with Luke waving his hand and flattening the guards in the room; not only to establish how much Luke's grown, but to make the trapdoor something other than a doctor-evil-esque decision on Jabba's part. But eh, as shown in the film, one can only presume that Luke's plan was to get past Jabba's outer defences, and then hold him hostage if he didn't give up Han and friends. Perhaps Luke really thought he could handle all those gangsters without a sabre, perhaps he didn't count on the size of Jabba's court...

I think Luke overestimated his own abilities with the Force, as well as his scheme to get R2-D2 and C-3PO in Jabba's hall. The Jedi mind trick didn't work and R2-D2 wasn't around to give Luke his lightsabre. Once he sensed danger underfoot (literally) and Threepio warned him, he grabbed for the pistol to either kill Jabba or force a Mexican standoff. But Jabba threw the switch before Luke could do anything.

Luke underestimated the Emperor later in the movie. Some of the things he does in Return of the Jedi are pretty fucking stupid but like Martin Pauley in The Searchers, he triumphs because his heart is mostly pure.

He does try the ol' Jedi Mindtricks on Jabba immidiately after entering the throne room. Maybe he only thought he had the Sarlacc to feed people to and didn't know about the Rancor? He does say on the way to the pit that "he's taken care of everything", so that seems to have been part of his plan. The only variable was the Rancor.

^Isn't that a bad move on his part though? I mean, like Faqa said, it could have been any one of a thousand nasties in that pit. A Vaapad, nexu, or acklay or would have royally fucked Luke over. Instead of a dumbass Rancor, which still presented him with quite the challenge.

CaptHawkeye wrote:^Isn't that a bad move on his part though? I mean, like Faqa said, it could have been any one of a thousand nasties in that pit. A Vaapad, nexu, or acklay or would have royally fucked Luke over. Instead of a dumbass Rancor, which still presented him with quite the challenge.

You're assuming any of those would be in good condition after being kept in a small chamber under Jabba's throne room for however long.

NecronLord wrote:

CaptHawkeye wrote:^Isn't that a bad move on his part though? I mean, like Faqa said, it could have been any one of a thousand nasties in that pit. A Vaapad, nexu, or acklay or would have royally fucked Luke over. Instead of a dumbass Rancor, which still presented him with quite the challenge.

You're assuming any of those would be in good condition after being kept in a small chamber under Jabba's throne room for however long.

Well, Jabba seems to feed his pets often. And I imagine their at least have to be some rumors in the open as to some of the things that go on inside Jabba's palace. But again, should Luke really be simply assuming that Jabba's flying circus isn't in good health?

The whole scene does not make a whole lot of sense. I am sure that Lando could have told Luke all about the Rancor. Jabba seemed to enjoy using it and he didnt mind people watching the entertainment.

My guess it that Luke wasmoving with merely trusting in the Force the entire time, because it would have made more sense for Luke to walk into the Palace with his saber and just start hacking and slahing. In a confined place like the palace throne room the criminal scum would have fallen over each other and Luke would have just slaughtered them. Even if he had fallen into the RAncors pit the lightsaber would have minced the door with ease and put Luke SOMEWHERE in the lower palace playing "hide and make dead" with all of Jabbas little minions.

I does make sense from a certain point of view. We all know that Palpatine was able to glance into the future and see events, then plan around and/or for them so he'd be ontop.

Is it that hard to think Luke pulled a slightly less complicated version. He saw himself and Han and Leia and Chewie as prisoners of Jabba and then escape in some sort of Force thingie...

So he planed for it, got his crew in there piecemail, sent his weapon in advance so he'd have it handy when the time came, ect... He may not have know all the details or what would happen between A and C, just that when he got to C, they made it out ok cuz of A.

That or as someone mentioned earlier, he went with the flow as it where.

Elfdart wrote:Luke underestimated the Emperor later in the movie. Some of the things he does in Return of the Jedi are pretty fucking stupid but like Martin Pauley in The Searchers, he triumphs because his heart is mostly pure.

you sir, get a gold star for being able to reference a John Wayne movie (and a really good one at that), while speaking about Star Wars.

Knife wrote:I does make sense from a certain point of view. We all know that Palpatine was able to glance into the future and see events, then plan around and/or for them so he'd be ontop.

Is it that hard to think Luke pulled a slightly less complicated version. He saw himself and Han and Leia and Chewie as prisoners of Jabba and then escape in some sort of Force thingie...

So he planed for it, got his crew in there piecemail, sent his weapon in advance so he'd have it handy when the time came, ect... He may not have know all the details or what would happen between A and C, just that when he got to C, they made it out ok cuz of A.

That or as someone mentioned earlier, he went with the flow as it where.

That does make sense. Being able to glimpse the future is a key part of every jedi's powers. That is how they deflect blaster bolts for example. Even nine year old Anakin was subconciously glimpsing the future as Quigon said when he explained Anakin's unusualy fast reflexes. Luke in particular was quite good at this aspect of the Force. When Yoda was teaching him precognition in ESB he sensed Han and Leia's location and their possible fate with his very first practice attempt. If Luke has good mastery over precog aspects of the force he may have preferred to go with his interpretation of what the Force showed him instead of putting togather a plan that relies on many variables which could easily go wrong.

Course I don't see why the hell the Rebels didn't send a crack special forces team in to retrieve Solo, possibly led by Luke...but instead we get Luke going off a little cocky and being damn lucky that Jabba likes overly elaborate and easily escapable death sequences...