StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I don't get it. Upon watching TPM, I noticed that as they were storming the hangar for the second time near the end of the movie.

They had the fighters sitting in the hangar for the longest time. Why didn't they just plant demolition charges on them or destroy them? That could have avoided the entire disasterous situation which befell them. They had the hangar secured for a very long time after Amidala's escape and before her return. I'm pretty sure they would have at least a few hours of time inbetween hunting Gungans and maintaining security to take the fighters out to some field and destroy them.

Did the Viceroy want to collect them for some purpose? Did he want to sell them on the market? (Not hard to believe considering their role) But if that's the case, why didn't they take them up to the droid control ships immedietly? It's believed they discharged the blockade fleet because they were losing money in the blockade. So why didn't they load the fighters onto the ships before they left and send them off to get sold?

perhap the fighters were worth alot on the open market and being a business rather than military entity could only see the $$ value in the fighters rather than their military value.

Isolder74 wrote:perhap the fighters were worth alot on the open market and being a business rather than military entity could only see the $$ value in the fighters rather than their military value.

Yeah, but CaptHawkEye also asks why the fighters weren't removed and brought away by the TradeFed when their blockade ships left Naboo.

Cykeisme wrote:

Isolder74 wrote:perhap the fighters were worth alot on the open market and being a business rather than military entity could only see the $$ value in the fighters rather than their military value.

Yeah, but CaptHawkEye also asks why the fighters weren't removed and brought away by the TradeFed when their blockade ships left Naboo.

Possible waiting for their invasion to be made legit so they can pack them up. This isn't the worst of the mistakes the Trade Federation made after all.

Possible waiting for their invasion to be made legit so they can pack them up. This isn't the worst of the mistakes the Trade Federation made after all.

But does stealing Nubian military hardware really make their image any worse then it already is?

Militaries aren't in the habit of blowing up captured equipment. Since the LAST thing the Trade Federation expected was a successful strike on the Royal Palace, they probably weren't very worried about the fighters sitting around. I'm sure they kept the doors locked, and equally sure the Naboo hacked/blasted their way through. They may or may not have changed the command codes of the fighters: if they had, the Royal Naboo uber-astromechs (mentioned in no few sources) probably hacked their way through those. And on top of that, the Trade Federation had a tank covering the entrance, that with no warning at all still managed to open fire and swat an N-1 from the sky.

The Trade Federation isn't much of a military, but I wouldn't consider their treatment of the Royal Naboo starfighters to be so bad. For all we know, they hadn't found a buyer/been shipped off to R&D yet.

CaptHawkeye wrote:

Possible waiting for their invasion to be made legit so they can pack them up. This isn't the worst of the mistakes the Trade Federation made after all.

But does stealing Nubian military hardware really make their image any worse then it already is?

Possibly, if the TF keeps as much of Naboo, and especially Theed, intact as possible then they can appear more benevolent than they actually are, which would give the Senate less cause to start giving them the evil eye. Of course with Sidious pulling all of the strings it probably never would have gotten to that point anyway. There is even a slim but still unlikely possibility Sidious told Gunray not to cause too much collateral damage.

There's also the possibility that the Viceroy and his staff simply hadn't gotten around to doing anything about captured palace hardware. After all, the Trade Federation didn't occupy the planet for more than a week or two, and active resistance from elements of the Nabooian security forces and the indigenous Gungans probably commanded most of Gunray's attention for most of that time. Certainly, he expected that his stay would be far longer than it was; there would have been plenty of time to requisition and relocate plunder later, assuming the fighters were even worth transporting or breaking down.

At least some of the Naboo Starfighters were hyperdrive capable, which I assume would add greatly to their value.

Darth Fanboy wrote:At least some of the Naboo Starfighters were hyperdrive capable, which I assume would add greatly to their value.

Keep in mind, Gunray directly controlled a fleet of armed, multi-kilometer starships that may have numbered in the thousands, and probably owned a city-sized treasure vault back on one of the Neimiodian purse worlds. Unless N1 starfighters had some extremely unusual artistic or technological distinction, I doubt they would have rated very high on his assimilation scale, hyperdrives or no.

Noble Ire wrote: Keep in mind, Gunray directly controlled a fleet of armed, multi-kilometer starships that may have numbered in the thousands, and probably owned a city-sized treasure vault back on one of the Neimiodian purse worlds. Unless N1 starfighters had some extremely unusual artistic or technological distinction, I doubt they would have rated very high on his assimilation scale, hyperdrives or no.

I was referring to the actual monetary value of the craft, not their value in the sense that they would bolster the TF military.

If the fighters are only used by the Royal Naboo space forces, then they'd be extremely rare as well as valuable. That'd be a good reason to keep them around. Maybe they were even planning on using them for local peacekeeping by Naboo collaborators?

I think Anguirus is right. It was just an oversight and a mistake on Gunray's part; he thought that the palace was secure, and didn't expect the guerillas to be able to recapture the hangar.

Cykeisme wrote:I think Anguirus is right. It was just an oversight and a mistake on Gunray's part; he thought that the palace was secure, and didn't expect the guerillas to be able to recapture the hangar.

Well, they had marched off almost the entire population to camps (while there was a resistance movement according to Panaka).

Unless N1 starfighters had some extremely unusual artistic or technological distinction, I doubt they would have rated very high on his assimilation scale, hyperdrives or no.

Both the novel and ICS go on and on about how Naboo vessels are marvels of craftsmanship with extremely elegant and efficient engines. An original, last-of-it's-kind N1 would be worth a princely sum to anyone and a fortune to a collector. Perhaps not on the scale Gunray would particularly care about, but they're not your garden-variety backwater patrol craft.

As for them still being in one piece, I'd have been surprised if they weren't. The palace was completely locked down, the entire Naboo military was in custody, no reinforcements were to be expected and an attack on the planet by anything less than a small fleet would be suicidal. Think about it, who would honestly plan for a gang of plucky patriots to assault the most well-defended building complex on the planet to steal fighters?

There was little, if any, reason to demolish the N1's. Remember that the assault on the palace only worked - partially - because the majority of the city's defenders had been drawn out into the field. The TF could hardly have planned for resistance by the Gungans.

(while there was a resistance movement according to Panaka)

But a pretty anemic one that was stuck pestering the TF in small strikes using speeders and a handful of bombers, if Battle for Naboo's storyline is still canon. Not something you'd be particularly worried about when you've got a ground army and orbital support.

Bounty wrote:

Unless N1 starfighters had some extremely unusual artistic or technological distinction, I doubt they would have rated very high on his assimilation scale, hyperdrives or no.

Both the novel and ICS go on and on about how Naboo vessels are marvels of craftsmanship with extremely elegant and efficient engines. An original, last-of-it's-kind N1 would be worth a princely sum to anyone and a fortune to a collector. Perhaps not on the scale Gunray would particularly care about, but they're not your garden-variety backwater patrol craft.

As for them still being in one piece, I'd have been surprised if they weren't. The palace was completely locked down, the entire Naboo military was in custody, no reinforcements were to be expected and an attack on the planet by anything less than a small fleet would be suicidal. Think about it, who would honestly plan for a gang of plucky patriots to assault the most well-defended building complex on the planet to steal fighters?

There was little, if any, reason to demolish the N1's. Remember that the assault on the palace only worked - partially - because the majority of the city's defenders had been drawn out into the field. The TF could hardly have planned for resistance by the Gungans.

(while there was a resistance movement according to Panaka)

But a pretty anemic one that was stuck pestering the TF in small strikes using speeders and a handful of bombers, if Battle for Naboo's storyline is still canon. Not something you'd be particularly worried about when you've got a ground army and orbital support.

All true. But would it have been so hard to at least remove the fighter's fuel and ammo? Surely the Trade Federation could find some immiediete use for it. Or does that fall in with disassembling the fighters?

Then again, I suppose it would be difficult for that to happen. Naboo torpedos and fuel are probably not the same grade and type used by the TradeFed.

All true. But would it have been so hard to at least remove the fighter's fuel and ammo? Surely the Trade Federation could find some immiediete use for it. Or does that fall in with disassembling the fighters?

When you arrive in a starship that would dwarf most space stations, I don't think you'll be that desperate for fuel and ammo Especially since the Naboo ships used tail-mounted chargers to draw power directly from the Theed Palace's generators and thus would be completely incompatible with the Vulture droids' power systems.

And why would you waste time disabling ships that are virtually impossible to steal anyway? The TF wasn't even expecting an attack, let alone one lead by Jedi but they still had droids in the hangar and artillery outside. You'd have to suicidal or brilliant to get even one fighter out and even that one fighter would be useless against the droid control ship.

Allright then. The established point and general concensus on this question is final. The Trade Federation simply did not anticipate an attack on the hanger thanks to their defenses. Because of the Gungan mass attack, much of their manpower was pulled from the city to attack them. It was not a grave mistake on their part to draw from the hangar defense and lose the fighters as the droid control ship could easily shrug off their attacks. (Disregarding Anakin's little accident. Which I don't think anyone could have prepared for.)

As for not being sold, the potential explanations are

A. Avoiding collateral damage - I like this one, but I don't think Sidious would specifically tell them not to. After all, his long term intention was to destroy the Trade Federation after consolidating power.

B. No buyers found yet. - I point this as the most likely one. The invasion news spread very quickly, but how were people supposed to know the Federation was going to be selling looted hardware? This is supposed to be one fo the first real invasions the TF has ever participated in. The TF would have to do a fair amount of advertising and product listing first. Until buyers are found, their is really no point to even taking the time to move the fighters up to the ships. Even under their own power.

C. Not enough value - While the fighters are valuable on an individual basis, their aren't many of them. They would probably be nice to sell in unison with a whole bunch of other captured Naboo equipment. (Gian speeders, pistols, etc.) But they didn't appear to have captured any military hardware other then the fighters. If they did, then again, no buyers yet.

This isn't really a difficult question - just look at the real world. The German's didn't immediately destroy French armored vehicles after the fall of France in WWII - they put them into use by their occupation troops. Germans and Russians regularly used each other's captured equipment. Iraq's armored vehicles and other equipment hasn't been destroyed by the American forces occupying the country because the plan is/was to eventually re-equip the Iraqis with that equipment.

Any form of looting, even of military equipment completely undermines the basis of whatever terms the proposed treaty that Amidala was supposed to sign were designed to placate the senate about the occupation of a member world. If the Trade Federation are going to sell the invasion as a contract of protection or something along those lines having Naboo equipment appear on the open market is likely a bad thing.

Also the Trade Federation has very limited organic involvement in the running of its forces. The Droid brain in the control ship might have thought it a good idea to place troops in the hanger to protect the fighter assets there of its own accord but I doubt the droid brain has either the decision making power or more likely the authorization to start destroying things considering the Naboo surrendered. It could have raised this issue with its Numodian supervisors but they appear to have even less military decision making capability than the droid brain and would likely have agreed with the many ideas already put forward of either using the fighters for occupation once collaborators come forward or simply selling them for parts at a later date. And thats assuming they didn't just dismiss the droid brains concerns out of hand due to their sense of security in having achieved victory without firing a shot.

Darth Tanner wrote: The Droid brain in the control ship might have thought it a good idea to place troops in the hanger to protect the fighter assets there of its own accord.

Weren't the Neimoidians controlling the droids from the DCS themselves (Hence the funny looking masked Nemos)? I did not think that the battle droids droids acted so autonomously in TPM.

ADDENDUM:

Now I know game mechanics aren't canon, but storylines unless contradicted elsewhere are low level Canon. I remember the Neimoidians giving orders directly to droid commanders in Galactic Battlegrounds (OOM-9 being the TF's playable commander droid).

The battle droids must have at least some autonomy: we clearly see them communicating with each other verbally, they possess ranks, and they even show what might be rudimentary emotion (fear).

I remember the Neimoidians giving orders directly to droid commanders in Galactic Battlegrounds (OOM-9 being the TF's playable commander droid).

...or the scene in TMP itself where Gunray gives orders to the tank commander via holocom. The droids were portrayed as acting like regular soldiers, except form some reason part of their processing was done by a shipboard computer. I suppose it helps with coordination and allows for a brutally effective kill switch, but it's still a weird idea.

Another reason why the fighters were untouched is probably time, as mentioned above: when you're trying to pacify a planet and make your invasion politically justified, a dozen or so ceremonial fighters are probably waaay down on the list of priorities.

Tanasinn wrote:The battle droids must have at least some autonomy: we clearly see them communicating with each other verbally, they possess ranks, and they even show what might be rudimentary emotion (fear).

Some yes, but I didn't think there was a "droid brain" on the Control Ship that was coordinating the military efforts on Naboo.

Some yes, but I didn't think there was a "droid brain" on the Control Ship that was coordinating the military efforts on Naboo.

The question then is, what the hell was the control ship for? The droids had AI, a command structure, long-range communications (at least, the antennae suggest BVR comms)...when the control ship blew up the highest-ranking droid should've gone into survival mode and kept his units fighting until he got new orders.

I find it hard to believe that they'd ship the CPU routines to make the droids move back and forth into orbit when even cheap SW droids show a great deal of independence.