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Just a simple question, when the Clone commander and Yoda are talking about the imminent droid attack the clone commander says that "the droids have activated their primary power generators" while looking at the droid landing ships off in the distance.

What exactly does this mean?

The only possible thing that I can think of that would fit this is if the droids are not only centrally controlled but centrally powered! which makes even less tactical or technical sense than using a central control mechanism but there you go, probably makes perfect sense to a Neimoidian.

Alternatively could the droids have deployed some form of theatre shield to prevent the Republic reinforcement fleets from bombarding their ground positions from orbit?

EDIT: Although in hindsight to typing it this obviously is pretty silly as any shield would need to have been active when the Republic fleet arrived in system, not when both forces have deployed for land battle.

Darth Tanner wrote:Just a simple question, when the Clone commander and Yoda are talking about the imminent droid attack the clone commander says that "the droids have activated their primary power generators" while looking at the droid landing ships off in the distance.
What exactly does this mean?

It means the droids have activated whatever it is that they refer to as their primary power generators.

The only possible thing that I can think of that would fit this is if the droids are not only centrally controlled but centrally powered! which makes even less tactical or technical sense than using a central control mechanism but there you go, probably makes perfect sense to a Neimoidian.

Why? Why does it HAVE to be connected to powering the droids, as opposed to some other aspect of the invasion?

Alternatively could the droids have deployed some form of theatre shield to prevent the Republic reinforcement fleets from bombarding their ground positions from orbit?

That would be one of those other aspects (though I can't recall any information from the movie directly reaffirming nor contradicting that). What I fail to see is the assumption that since 'droids activated it' means 'must be directly related to droid operation'.

But what over uses for main power generators can there be if their activated just prior to the launching a main land assault?

Its not like the droids have any defensive artillery that needs powering and that wouldn't fit with the activation prior to the assault either. And any support systems that are used for the battle are either in the orbiting command ships or would have been operational the whole period.

as opposed to some other aspect of the invasion?

That's what I'm interested in, I just can't think of a good reason you'd need large power generation ability during a land assault unless the land forces are somehow dependant on what is to an extent mains power.

Darth Tanner wrote:But what over uses for main power generators can there be if their activated just prior to the launching a main land assault?

Everything that is supposed to FOLLOW said assault?

Its not like the droids have any defensive artillery that needs powering and that wouldn't fit with the activation prior to the assault either. And any support systems that are used for the battle are either in the orbiting command ships or would have been operational the whole period.

Yeah, perish the thought that there may have been follow-up waves to the assault that needed ground-based power generators. Like antiorbital turbolasers or something equally exotic. Or, you know, a Valendamned beach head. Perish the thought that they'd actually establish a base of operations.

I'm with Batman. The statement (as I always read it) referred to the power generators of the individual droids. They needn't have detected every single battle droid powering up to know, just the big ships. (and if they generate power, they'll radiate an emissions of some sort.)

Moreover, we know they totally abanboned the idea of completely centrallized droid control post TPM (not completely, but its redundant.) A separate and remote power generator is going to be much more vulnerable
than individual self-contined units inside the droids (not only are the generators themselves prone to sabotage or precision bombardment - ie Hoth - but so are any power-transmission networks needed to overcome line-of sight transmission problems, unless you want to restrict their operational range rather severely.)

Besides, power generators can be made very small (we saw that in TESB). And if you're goign with the "remote power" idea, why not go with multiple smaller platforms (the tank droids could "beam" power to the battle droids if need be.) hell it would amke more sense that the battle droids themselves run on power ceells (blasters tlel us how compact those buggers can be.)

But any such equipment would have been operational before launching the assault itself. The establishment of a beach head with all the facilities that go along with it wouldn't just occur when they launch their assault.

From what I understand the droids have been planet side since before the Republic fleet under Yoda arrived, otherwise why did the Wookies send for aid. They should have had plenty of time to set up power facilities for their repair/defence/service establishment in their deployment zone prior to massing their troops for an assault on the Republic positions.

Connor MacLeod wrote:I'm with Batman. The statement (as I always read it) referred to the power generators of the individual droids. They needn't have detected every single battle droid powering up to know, just the big ships. (and if they generate power, they'll radiate an emissions of some sort.)

Moreover, we know they totally abanboned the idea of completely centrallized droid control post TPM (not completely, but its redundant.) A separate and remote power generator is going to be much more vulnerable
than individual self-contined units inside the droids (not only are the generators themselves prone to sabotage or precision bombardment - ie Hoth - but so are any power-transmission networks needed to overcome line-of sight transmission problems, unless you want to restrict their operational range rather severely.)

Besides, power generators can be made very small (we saw that in TESB). And if you're goign with the "remote power" idea, why not go with multiple smaller platforms (the tank droids could "beam" power to the battle droids if need be.) hell it would amke more sense that the battle droids themselves run on power ceells (blasters tlel us how compact those buggers can be.)

I agree that it does seem the logical reason behind it but the ships would have been power active from the word go, there would be no reason for them to activate just prior to the attack as they play no part in the actual battle and I just don't see how the activation of the individual power packs in each battle droid could be seen as the activation of primary power generators, let alone how the commander could tell that through his binoculars. Unless of course he could see the larger tank droids starting to form up for the charge of course.

On another thought isn't the large backpack like assembly on the standard battle droids supposedly a extended battery for increasing field life?

Darth Tanner wrote:But any such equipment would have been operational before launching the assault itself.

By a margin of? How long had the Separatist forces been on planet by the time of the assault's initiation?

The establishment of a beach head with all the facilities that go along with it wouldn't just occur when they launch their assault.

assuming that there was a considerable timelag between the two.

From what I understand the droids have been planet side since before the Republic fleet under Yoda arrived, otherwise why did the Wookies send for aid.

For any number of reason that meant they KNEW they'd come under attack eventually but that's neither here or there. But actual droid armies on their home soil are by no means the ONLY reason they'd send for aid.

They should have had plenty of time to set up power facilities for their repair/defence/service establishment in their deployment zone prior to massing their troops for an assault on the Republic positions.

Why? The droid armies land, get their asses handed to them/proceed as planned but not quite as fast as envisioned/proceed according to plan except for sectors X Y and Z neccasitating the establishment of a ground base with more elaborate installations/proceeds according to plan overall which INCLUDES having to establish ground fortifications in select locations to deal with the inevitable OR retaliation. How is that incompatible with the establishment of ground-based power generators when the droid armies, or parts thereof, are already in-theater?

Darth Tanner wrote:But any such equipment would have been operational before launching the assault itself. The establishment of a beach head with all the facilities that go along with it wouldn't just occur when they launch their assault.

I don't recall saying that. Not that it changes what I am saying in the least.

From what I understand the droids have been planet side since before the Republic fleet under Yoda arrived, otherwise why did the Wookies send for aid. They should have had plenty of time to set up power facilities for their repair/defence/service establishment in their deployment zone prior to massing their troops for an assault on the Republic positions.

But why bother in the fashion you seem to be describing? Even if they did do as you say, then logically one of the key things to do would have been to take the power generator facilities out, either by bombardment or sabotage (and don't tlel me they couldn't do it.) They can't keep shields up to protect it forever (how the hell are they going to beam power to all those droids THROUGH the shields?)

Even if they COULD set up such facilities, there is no logical reason for them to do so, given equally viable alternatives. At most, it represents a sorrt of "backup" - a way to remotely and rapidly recharge droids whose power cells ran low.

Darth Tanner wrote: I agree that it does seem the logical reason behind it but the ships would have been power active from the word go, there would be no reason for them to activate just prior to the attack as they play no part in the actual battle

1.) WTF are you talking about, and 2.) What ships?

and I just don't see how the activation of the individual power packs in each battle droid could be seen as the activation of primary power generators,

I didn't say they could. I said they made MORE sense than your idea. The lager vehicles and droids can easily run on a generator (the tank droids and the droid gunships in particular.)

let alone how the commander could tell that through his binoculars. Unless of course he could see the larger tank droids starting to form up for the charge of course.

Ever heard of a passive sensor? I'm pretty sure the Star Wars universe has demonstrated them.

On another thought isn't the large backpack like assembly on the standard battle droids supposedly a extended battery for increasing field life?

If it is, that only amkes your idea more silly, not less. Simply have a unit devoted to replacing such batteries with fresh ones.

What ships?

CIS landing craft. But they would have been active already.

VT-16 wrote:

What ships?

CIS landing craft. But they would have been active already.

So because it kinda LOOKS like the Clone dude with yoda is looking at the ships, he must be TALKING abou tthe ships alone, rather than looking at the base as a whole?

I would argue that the droids would normally 'idle' at low power levels to avoid using up fuel and causing extra wear and tear on their systems. When it is time for combat, they bring up their main reactors, and attack (or defend against an enemy attack).

Both sides can see each other, but detecting the power emissions gives you a few more seconds of warning.

Heh. For all we know, the generators simply refer to stations that recharge powerpacks, so that droid soldiers can count on a continuous supply of ammo.

From what I understand the droids have been planet side since before the Republic fleet under Yoda arrived, otherwise why did the Wookies send for aid. They should have had plenty of time to set up power facilities for their repair/defence/service establishment in their deployment zone prior to massing their troops for an assault on the Republic positions.p

Going by Republic Commando, they haven't been planetside for that long. Similarly, they just been launching several offensives into the Wookiees area, this may have been the establishment of a new forward base.

Coalition wrote:I would argue that the droids would normally 'idle' at low power levels to avoid using up fuel and causing extra wear and tear on their systems. When it is time for combat, they bring up their main reactors, and attack (or defend against an enemy attack).

I was going to pipe up and say something like this, but you beat me to the punch. The main power generators of the droids (note that this doesn't even have to be all the droids) should definitely be at idle, just as the main power generators of a starship are going to be at idle for all except a few peak uses, like a cross-system sprint, battle, or hyperjump.

From what I understand the droids have been planet side since before the Republic fleet under Yoda arrived, otherwise why did the Wookies send for aid. They should have had plenty of time to set up power facilities for their repair/defence/service establishment in their deployment zone prior to massing their troops for an assault on the Republic positions.p

Going by Republic Commando, they haven't been planetside for that long. Similarly, they just been launching several offensives into the Wookiees area, this may have been the establishment of a new forward base.

Actually we know it's AT LEAST two days, as we see the initial Invasion force being prepared in The Clone Wars Miniseries during the day, and then sometime during the night Delta Squad begins their mission to infiltrate and rescue some Wookies from Trandoshan slavers and try and assassinate Dooku, and finally sometime during the next day the actual battle has begun.

Coalition wrote:I would argue that the droids would normally 'idle' at low power levels to avoid using up fuel and causing extra wear and tear on their systems. When it is time for combat, they bring up their main reactors, and attack (or defend against an enemy attack).

This is the same reasoning I would use.
Using modern tanks as an analogy: You don't have your tanks standing around running their engines all the time, instead you turn them on just prior to moving to your starting point and the following march/attack.

Okay this does indeed seem to be the sensible interpretation, it just strikes me as odd that the clone commander would say that the power generators have come on-line rather than that the droids are preparing for an attack.

It doesn't seem odd to me.

As an example, if you are an infantry soldier in your position somewhere to defend and you hear tank engines coming from somewhere in front of you, do you then report: "The enemy is attacking!" or do you report (more accurately): "Sir! Engine noise coming from ..."

Similarly, in this situation the most significant sensors might have been those detecting the energy surge from all those vehicles' power generators activating. This leads to the conclusion that those droids that are landing are probably going to attack and not just dig in or something. But this is up to the commanding officer (and his supporting staff) to conclude.

In the military when reporting something, you only report what you KNOW, not what you THINK you know. So if you see one tank, you report one tank, even though you know one tank is never alone. Because if you then say 2 tanks, and your superior then reports one platoon, etc, you may just have an entire company or battalion attacking (for your superiors even further up), even though only one tank has been seen. You just report that one tank, and leave the guessing to those who are in charge.
If you do report something that you conclude out of what you know, then you make it abundantly clear that that is only a guess."

Simple. Their reactors idle at much, much lower power output than combat levels. Ramping them up to combat output increases their heat output, which is detectable, by the laws of thermodynamics. This is obviously of value because detecting the ramp-up means attack is imminent.

Remember TPM?

There we had thousands of de-activated droids stored aboard their MTTs until the TF decided to sent its infantry against the Gungan-Army.

FTeik wrote:Remember TPM?

There we had thousands of de-activated droids stored aboard their MTTs until the TF decided to sent its infantry against the Gungan-Army.

I was thinking the same thing it could be that the Republic is detecting the activation of thousands of battle droids, ala TPM.

I think the part that causes confusion is "the droids have activated their primary power generators". In TPM we see transports carrying the battledroids. It's possible that the tank-sized vehicles were themselves on larger transports (like modern tanks), and 'primary' refers to the individual units themselves powering up.

To be honest though, when I watched the movie I just assumed that they had fixed defenses of some kind (like Hoth) and these were powered by a handful of generators. Although in retrospect, having lots of defenses seems a bit odd for an assault.

Darth Tanner wrote:it just strikes me as odd that the clone commander would say that the power generators have come on-line rather than that the droids are preparing for an attack.

In the case of the droids and in the situation it was used it means the same thing though. "Sir, the enemy column has finished dismantling its camp" means they're about to move on / attack - you're not saying specifically that they will, but it's pretty obvious.