Moderator: Vympel
Also, http://www.starwarsontrial.com/ appears to have a forum for people to discuss this.
For its part, the defense makes its best case on the wider issue of cultural matters, on the effect of Star Wars on science fiction and filmmaking. Novelist Karen Traviss, one of the most popular of the current crop of Star Wars authors, argues convincingly that Star Wars literature can be more than turgid prose hastily churned out for cash by revealing some of the positive changes she was forced to make in her own writing when commissioned to write her first Star Wars novel. And addressing the complaint that Star Wars fiction is driving "real" science fiction off bookstore shelves, novelist Laura Resnick points out that the success of Star Wars fiction has in fact provided publisher Del Rey the financial clout to expand its original science fiction publishing.
David Brin's writing style is just painful to read. I can't quite put my finger on why, but it seems almost similar to Darkstar's. Maybe it's just dumbed down?PainRack wrote:Lol........ Just reading the preview is funny
This is rebuttled by pointing out KoTOR II, where the designers have consistantly called the main character her, thus leading to the assumption that the canon version of events are a Lightside Female, and the Exhile was one of, if not the most, powerful Jedi Generals Revan had.Surlethe wrote:[*] Women in The Iliad Are Portrayed as Fundamentally Weak.
I understand what you're trying to do here, but regardless of your view of Star Wars or the Illiad your comparison is unfair; the Illiad is a recollection of stories created in a period where a male-oriented, elitist society was the norm, whereas Lucas could write the SW verse however damn well he pleased.If you look at the leveled "charges", at least half of the eight could just as easily be applied to The Iliad:
This is "rebutted" by pointing out Leia's actions in ANH and Padmé's whole life story up to the silly "death by sorrow" nonsense. If women in SW are portrayed as "weak", it's only because the villains are portrayed as conservative, mysogenistic pigs who expect no better.This is rebuttled by pointing out KoTOR II
Damn straight - see how Lucas glorifies the Empire and... oh wait hang on...The Politics of Star Wars Are Anti-Democratic and Elitist
Brin skipped every scene on Jedi training & Jedi / Sith differences I see.While Claiming Mythic Significance, Star Wars Portrays No Admirable Religious or Ethical Beliefs.
Yes, but then with people like KT writing what else was going to happen?Star Wars Novels Are Poor Substitutes for Real Science Fiction and Are Driving Real SF off the Shelves.
Um, lol? Sure people like special effects, but there is plenty of good stuff out there too.Science Fiction Filmmaking Has Been Reduced by Star Wars to Poorly Written Special Effects Extravaganzas.
Surely you mean "appealed to a wider audience than my Uplift books ever did"Star Wars Has Dumbed Down the Perception of Science Fiction in the Popular Imagination.
?No it's just not hard sci-fi.Star Wars Pretends to Be Science Fiction, but Is Really Fantasy.
Now you can argue that they don't get to do all the cool stuff the guys do, but "fundamentally weak"? Riiight.Women in Star Wars Are Portrayed as Fundamentally Weak.
And SW was marketed for the "intelligent viewer" market since when? Oh no wait, it's actually a bit of good old fun in a sci-fi setting designed for everyone to watch and enjoy, so if it has to gloss over a few things it doesn't seem to have crippled itself.The Plot Holes and Logical Gaps in Star Wars Make It Ill-Suited for an Intelligent Viewer.
Which is why Leia grabbed a blaster right out of Luke's hands and saved the entire group with her quick thinking in ANH, making disparaging comments about Luke and Han in the process? Or why the leader of the Rebel Alliance was shown to be a woman in ROTJ? Or why several of the more prominent Jedi in the prequels were female?Women in Star Wars Are Portrayed as Fundamentally Weak.
Yes the enemy of the freedom fighting Rebel Alliance(a democratic organization) is the Evil Galactic Empire lead by Emperor Palpatine, and the Sith Lord Darth Vader. True one of the leaders of the alliance is a Princess but that has little bearing on the system as a whole. In episodes 1 - 3 we see that the Old Republic was a democratic body in that they have a senate that, is based on the Roman model, that handles the running of the galactic government. One of the Whole points of the story is we have that being destroyed by The Empire in favor of a dictatorship.The charges:
Charge #1: The Politics of Star Wars Are Anti-Democratic and Elitist.
I guess as long as you consider the Jedi and the Sith not to be religious groups then this is true.Charge #2: While Claiming Mythic Significance, Star Wars Portrays No Admirable Religious or Ethical Beliefs.
Please define because as far as I am aware it has helped other sci fi books sales as those who come to read Star Wars fiction find other books by the same authors, and other authors in the same section and give them a try. I know I did.Charge #3: Star Wars Novels Are Poor Substitutes for Real Science Fiction and Are Driving Real SF off the Shelves.
That is more a look at the tendencies of the Hollywood industry playing bandwagon rather then on Star Wars itself. You could say the same about the Movie Superman and superhero movies or Lord of the Rings as well.Charge #4: Science Fiction Film making Has Been Reduced by Star Wars to Poorly Written Special Effects Extravaganzas.
It has in my perception increased the audience for Science Fiction. The same can be said of the works of Jules Verne and H G Wells as well. The truth of the matter is once I read some star wars books I looked into and read the works of Asimov and other in the sci fi section of the library. Its a very narrow minded fan indeed that only read Star Wars books and never read Dune books and other sci fi novels such as Ender's Game.Charge #5: Star Wars Has Dumbed Down the Perception of Science Fiction in the Popular Imagination.
It depends on your definition of 'fantasy.' Star Trek is no less Fantasy then Star Wars in other then setting. After all we have monsters in space(dragons), Vulcans(Elves), Pirates and Telepathy(Magic) all in Star Trek. Trek's difference is they try and pretend they have science to everything, when it isn't always needed to have an explanation.Charge #6: Star Wars Pretends to Be Science Fiction, but Is Really Fantasy.
Not sure where this part is coming from with ladies like Leia, Padma and Mon Mothma running around.Charge #7: Women in Star Wars Are Portrayed as Fundamentally Weak.
Has he ever made a serious look at the plot holes in the Lord of the Rings or 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea? Any work of fiction can be looked and find places where the author missed closing up some point of plot somewhere.Charge #8: The Plot Holes and Logical Gaps in Star Wars Make It Ill-Suited for an Intelligent Viewer.
