StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Ok, we have one Eclipse and one Executor thats been dropped into a staged fight, they start out at 100 million km from each other, their respective mission is to kill the other one, hyperdrives may not be used to escape the fight.

His Divine Shadow wrote:Ok, we have one Eclipse and one Executor thats been dropped into a staged fight, they start out at 100 million km from each other, their respective mission is to kill the other one, hyperdrives may not be used to escape the fight.

IF the Eclipse can target the Executor with its SL then its endgame, otherwise the Executor closes range and uses its sueprior conventional firepower to eliminate the Eclipse.

CmdrWilkens wrote:IF the Eclipse can target the Executor with its SL then its endgame, otherwise the Executor closes range and uses its sueprior conventional firepower to eliminate the Eclipse.

You rely on two assumptions, the firepower discrepency of the eclipses secondary weapons, and that the shield strenght difference is not large enough to matter, token calcs on reactor power would show this not to be so.

Um, yeah, Eclipse takes this.

Eclipse, Unquestionably.

WTF? I thought the Eclipse was FAR stronger than the Executor!

Isn't this a little one sided?

Not according to some people, so hence the debate.

It seems to be true that the ESSD has weaker conventional weapons, about twice less powerfull than the Executors infact, but it packs grawell generators and more powerfull shields.

The wildcard is how much more powerfull the shields are, but if reactor power is any indicator of shield strenght, then the ESSD is painfully powerfull.

The ESSD can pack a fullpower shot in ten minutes, that would represent a reactor power of around 1.5e24watts(Coreship reactor = 1e24w) to 6e26w(likely)

In a 1 on 1, it should be rather obvious which ship has the upper hand, even without the SL.

Without the SL, I would say 2 Executors can take the Eclipse. With, minimum 3, probably 4 to make it reasonably certain.

His Divine Shadow wrote:The wildcard is how much more powerfull the shields are, but if reactor power is any indicator of shield strenght, then the ESSD is painfully powerfull.

The Essential Guide to Vehicles indicates that shields are strong enough to ram enemy vehicles w/out losing a significant portion of their strength.

IG-88E wrote:

His Divine Shadow wrote:The wildcard is how much more powerfull the shields are, but if reactor power is any indicator of shield strenght, then the ESSD is painfully powerfull.

The Essential Guide to Vehicles indicates that shields are strong enough to ram enemy vehicles w/out losing a significant portion of their strength.

What size of enemy vehicles? I think that should go without saying, seeing as there's not much in the way of vehicles that are more massive than the Eclipse, barring a Death Star. The Executor shrugged off an Imperator-class ramming it while decelerating from hyperspace. So, even if the Eclipse only has equal shielding, it should more than allow for ramming other ships.

I believe the three Imperators ramming the Executor took down its shields.

Volume wise the Eclipse is greater than the Executer. Assuming both ships carry the same firepower to volume ratio, which is a good assumption considering they are both KDY, the Eclipse should have the advantage.

Robert Treder wrote:

IG-88E wrote:

His Divine Shadow wrote:The wildcard is how much more powerfull the shields are, but if reactor power is any indicator of shield strenght, then the ESSD is painfully powerfull.

The Essential Guide to Vehicles indicates that shields are strong enough to ram enemy vehicles w/out losing a significant portion of their strength.

What size of enemy vehicles? I think that should go without saying, seeing as there's not much in the way of vehicles that are more massive than the Eclipse, barring a Death Star. The Executor shrugged off an Imperator-class ramming it while decelerating from hyperspace. So, even if the Eclipse only has equal shielding, it should more than allow for ramming other ships.

It was referring to capital ships, which I took to be approximately equivalent to ISD's and Mon Calamari cruisers, but it also implied that the Eclipse could do so repeatedly.

I honestly don't know. The Eclipse I is slightly smaller (17.5km) than the Executor (17.6km), has a superlaser, gravity well generators (unlike the Eclipse II)- but I don't know about conventional weapons or shield strength.

CmdrWilkens wrote:

His Divine Shadow wrote:Ok, we have one Eclipse and one Executor thats been dropped into a staged fight, they start out at 100 million km from each other, their respective mission is to kill the other one, hyperdrives may not be used to escape the fight.

IF the Eclipse can target the Executor with its SL then its endgame, otherwise the Executor closes range and uses its sueprior conventional firepower to eliminate the Eclipse.

The Secondary firepower of an Eclipse is enough to trash the Excutor. An Executor is something like 30 times the size of an ISD yet can be threatened by less then half a dozen. The Eclipse has true firepower for its size.

Vympel wrote:I honestly don't know. The Eclipse I is slightly smaller (17.5km) than the Executor (17.6km), has a superlaser, gravity well generators (unlike the Eclipse II)- but I don't know about conventional weapons or shield strength.

Incorrect. The Eclipse is aproximately three times larger then the Executor. The Eclipse is slightly SHORTER then the Executor.

Alyeska wrote:

Vympel wrote:I honestly don't know. The Eclipse I is slightly smaller (17.5km) than the Executor (17.6km), has a superlaser, gravity well generators (unlike the Eclipse II)- but I don't know about conventional weapons or shield strength.

Incorrect. The Eclipse is aproximately three times larger then the Executor. The Eclipse is slightly SHORTER then the Executor.

If/how fighters/gunships can help as well as surface area for gun mounts is important here.

The Eclipse is far larger, and if anything its going to be more powerful ton for ton. Be it by superlaser or secondaries the Executor is doomed.

WEG doesn't count for a lot as we know. But in any case, I added the stats together and got 17% more firepower for an Eclipse. Not counting the SL of course. Better fire control on the Eclipse, better sensors on the Executor.

nightmare wrote:WEG doesn't count for a lot as we know. But in any case, I added the stats together and got 17% more firepower for an Eclipse. Not counting the SL of course. Better fire control on the Eclipse, better sensors on the Executor.

I see, I tried to do the same thing, but i had only sketchy info to go on.

Good point, the Eclipse is far more massive yet shorter, but still, I don't buy the EU estimations of the Executor's weaponry- it's based on the 8km figure after all.

Vympel wrote:Good point, the Eclipse is far more massive yet shorter, but still, I don't buy the EU estimations of the Executor's weaponry- it's based on the 8km figure after all.

I don't buy the WEG estimations on the Eclipses weaponry either.

However I believe that there are two incidents that compare relatively well when regarding shield power, I believe that maybe 40 or so fighters attacked an Executor(who's name escape me) class and with 80 torps, 60 capship, 20 fighter, they where able to collapse the bow shields.

Now in Empires End there where over a hundred fighters attacking the Eclipse, sure it was just a feint, but it proves one important thing, that the odds where better in sending in the Falcon on the ESSD than taking those hundred or so fighters and giving them torps and attacking the Eclipse, heck, they should have been able to muster capital ships too, but apparently they didn't, this really speaks loads for the Eclipses shields.

I doubt they'd even use their torpedoes and if they did they'd use low-yield, I don't think the NR would throw around valuable ammo at a time like that when it would be completely useless by the mission objective.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:I doubt they'd even use their torpedoes and if they did they'd use low-yield, I don't think the NR would throw around valuable ammo at a time like that when it would be completely useless by the mission objective.

Objective was taking down the Eclipse, no?

Methods:
The Executor method, obviously not workable, and this would not have been costly, and throwing in a few mon cal ships would have sealed the deal and destroyed the most powerfull warship in the Imperial Navy.

No, I think that they did consider this tactic, to even bigger proportions, but decided that the Eclipses shields where so much more powerfull that such a tactic would have been a failure even with larger forces and capital ships involved.

Other method, smuggling in a strike team, this was apparently better even though we're pitting a few guys again 700.000 soldiers or so.