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Why was Anakin never admonished for killing (unarmed) Dooku? Wouldn't Anakin have been debriefed upon the return to the Jedi Temple about his battle with Dooku and how he bested him? surely they would have not left it at a vague "I destroyed Dooku in battle" type of comment.... was this explained in the novel?

No one saw him beheading Dooku except for Palpatine, who wasn't going to rat him out. Obi-Wan was unconcious the whole time.

EDIT: I figure Anakin wouldn't incriminate himself either. He's done illegal things (murdering an entire village of Sand People) without telling the other Jedi before.

It's not even a huge stretch to say that he killed Dooku in battle. This pales in comparison to the Sand People incident.

Howedar wrote:It's not even a huge stretch to say that he killed Dooku in battle. This pales in comparison to the Sand People incident.

Well I suppose he could lie about that too and say the women and children attacked him as well.

Both incidents have one factor that explains the lack of a reprimand. He was alone both times, I don't count Palpatine being there as a Jedi reresentitive.
Also, they would accept a vague comment from the hero fo the Battle of Courscant, and Conquer of the Outer Rim, as the truth, one of the problems the jedi have is too much faith in their people to abide by the code. In Jedi Trials (Clone Wars Book) Anikin and Neeji(?) Halycon talk about both having marriages. IIRC this took place in the Temple

I can see the sand people incident being kept secret more easily, but for him to tell the council that he killed Dooku in combat and them not sense he was lying?

After all the council has no reason to even know anything about an encounter with the sand people, they know he fought and killed Dooku....

Death from the Sea wrote:I can see the sand people incident being kept secret more easily, but for him to tell the council that he killed Dooku in combat and them not sense he was lying?

Not to mention the physical evidence. If we assume that the scene of their battle still existed (more or less) intact, there's this headless, handless corpse that used to be Dooku. Which cut came first? No matter which one did, the second one would be completely superfluous.

Then again, it's possible that that part of the ship was badly damaged during the re-entry and crash, and really, why would the council think to care very much in the first place? It's not as though they would go looking for ways in which Anakin had screwed up.

SCRawl wrote:

Death from the Sea wrote:I can see the sand people incident being kept secret more easily, but for him to tell the council that he killed Dooku in combat and them not sense he was lying?

Not to mention the physical evidence. If we assume that the scene of their battle still existed (more or less) intact, there's this headless, handless corpse that used to be Dooku. Which cut came first? No matter which one did, the second one would be completely superfluous.

Then again, it's possible that that part of the ship was badly damaged during the re-entry and crash, and really, why would the council think to care very much in the first place? It's not as though they would go looking for ways in which Anakin had screwed up.

that part pretty much burn upon reentry (it's was on top on the big tower on the part that broke off during the decent)

Even if the Council sees the body intact, what are they going to do? Raise Dooku's dead body and ask "So did Anakin kill you in defense in combat or out of cold blood?"

Palpatine was the only witness and he could've easily said it was the heat of the battle and Dooku was about to kill Anakin or himself, thus leaving Anakin no choice whatsoever.

The part of the ship with Dooku's Body was the part that sheared off. So other than Anakin's word I'm not sure they have much else to know ehat happened.

I think the main truth of the matter is that Anakin failed the test as far as Palptine was concerned in doing the act showing to Palpitine that he was ready to be groomed into his aprentence. Anakin's slide towards the Dark Side began with the Sand people but really his turn to the Dark Side began with his killing of Dooku. There are those who say his turn in Palpatine's office was too quick but it all started with Anakin making the choice Luke rejected in The Return of the Jedi.

Ghost Rider wrote:Even if the Council sees the body intact, what are they going to do? Raise Dooku's dead body and ask "So did Anakin kill you in defense in combat or out of cold blood?"

Palpatine was the only witness and he could've easily said it was the heat of the battle and Dooku was about to kill Anakin or himself, thus leaving Anakin no choice whatsoever.

Perhaps I didn't make myself very clear. (Not that it matters, since, as others have pointed out, there was no body for us to argue about.) The corpse was missing both its head and its hands. Absence of either of these strongly indicates that, after their removal, Dooku's fighting ability would be, at best, minimal. Absence of both would indicate that either someone chopped off his hands after his head or chopped off his head after his hands. In the former case, that's just bizarre; in the latter, it implies that Anakin took off Dooku's head after he was already rendered unable to fight by the removal of his hands. I suppose there could be some argument made which involved some convoluted manoeuvre in which both came off at the same time, but that would involve something even sillier.

It all comes down to a certain point of view. Sure Dooku was unarmed (or shoudk that be unhanded) but as Palpatine says in the book, when is a Sith Lord truely unarmed and no longer a threat? With that PoV as an out and with what I think was Palpatine or the Force clouding his mind he could honestly say that in his PoV Dooku was killed fair and square.

Perhaps lopping off the hands whilst going for the head? It wasn't intentional but they were in the way .

SCRawl wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:Even if the Council sees the body intact, what are they going to do? Raise Dooku's dead body and ask "So did Anakin kill you in defense in combat or out of cold blood?"

Palpatine was the only witness and he could've easily said it was the heat of the battle and Dooku was about to kill Anakin or himself, thus leaving Anakin no choice whatsoever.

Perhaps I didn't make myself very clear. (Not that it matters, since, as others have pointed out, there was no body for us to argue about.) The corpse was missing both its head and its hands. Absence of either of these strongly indicates that, after their removal, Dooku's fighting ability would be, at best, minimal. Absence of both would indicate that either someone chopped off his hands after his head or chopped off his head after his hands. In the former case, that's just bizarre; in the latter, it implies that Anakin took off Dooku's head after he was already rendered unable to fight by the removal of his hands. I suppose there could be some argument made which involved some convoluted manoeuvre in which both came off at the same time, but that would involve something even sillier.

Don't forget Mace Windu destroyed Jango Fett's weapon. Fett's jet pack had already been destroyed too, yet Windu took his head anyway. So I don't think the Jedi would have even batted an eyelash had they discovered Dooku's body.

The Jedi wouldn't have questioned Anakin's account. Hell, I imagine that if they had a video of the incident, they wouldn't have given Anakin much more than a stern lecture, if even that. For all their pacifist reputation, it seems that if a Sith Lord is involved, any distaste a Jedi has for violence flies right out the window. Though I suppose that can happen when you combine a monastic order with a high priority on learning swordsmanship with millenia-long emnity towards a competing sect.

Civil War Man wrote:The Jedi wouldn't have questioned Anakin's account. Hell, I imagine that if they had a video of the incident, they wouldn't have given Anakin much more than a stern lecture, if even that. For all their pacifist reputation, it seems that if a Sith Lord is involved, any distaste a Jedi has for violence flies right out the window. Though I suppose that can happen when you combine a monastic order with a high priority on learning swordsmanship with millenia-long emnity towards a competing sect.

Mace Windu makes it pretty clear that Sith Lords are considered too dangerous to live. He flips on his decision to arrest Palpatine the moment he shows so much power that even Mace can barely hold him off. There was no hesitation in Mace's decision to kill Palpatine. That sort of dilluted Anakin's cold blooded killing of Dooku IMO since Mace could have found a way to disarm Palpatine - say chopping his hands off - and taking him in as a prisoner.

And one must consider the whole question of whether a force practioner, in particular a master, is ever truly 'disarmed' so that he is completely at your mercy. When a stormtrooper gets diarmed he is no longer dangeorus at all to a Jedi, you slap a lightsaber out of a Jedi's hands he still has a whole bag of tricks at his disposal. So is killing a diarmed Jedi/Sith really killing an unarmed person?

I think the more important question is in light of Mace's unwavering belief that he was right to kill Palpatine because he was too dangerous to keep alive why then is Anakin's sin of killing Dooku considered the final test of his fitness to be a Sith? Why is it held up as a prime example of the evil in Anakin's heart when Mace is willing to do the same as is Yoda later on in his confrontation with Palpatine?

Not to mention, everyone that Palpatine did want Anakin to kill Dooku, he originally didn't want to. Palpatine believed that Sith Lords were too dangerous to be kept alive (and that he wanted a new apprentice)

Well you do have to admit that Palps was hardly out of the fight in the Mace Fight. Perhaps when he started flinging the lihtning about he became armed again. Also it seems that Mace did not buy the 'I'm weak' act of Palpitine for Anakin's sake and it appeared that until Anakin showed up mace was still trying to take Palpatine alive.

Maybe Dooku could've shot lightning bolts from his stumps!

Stravo wrote:And one must consider the whole question of whether a force practioner, in particular a master, is ever truly 'disarmed' so that he is completely at your mercy. When a stormtrooper gets diarmed he is no longer dangeorus at all to a Jedi, you slap a lightsaber out of a Jedi's hands he still has a whole bag of tricks at his disposal. So is killing a diarmed Jedi/Sith really killing an unarmed person?

In the novelization, Palpatine expands on "he was too dangerous to be kept alive" with that exact argument.

I think the more important question is in light of Mace's unwavering belief that he was right to kill Palpatine because he was too dangerous to keep alive why then is Anakin's sin of killing Dooku considered the final test of his fitness to be a Sith? Why is it held up as a prime example of the evil in Anakin's heart when Mace is willing to do the same as is Yoda later on in his confrontation with Palpatine?

Uh, that was the whole damn point? Anakin thinks, and doubts, and feels guilty, for something that Mace Windu does without hesitation. Mace Windu, the guy who disdains Anakin and thinks him unworthy of Jedi Mastery. The guy who must stand in Anakin's mind for everything judgemental about Jedi Code morality shows less hesitation about breaking it than Anakin did, and even uses the exact same words that the Sith Lord did. It's one of those parts of Anakin's fall that you sympathize with, and part of the whole Greek Tragedy aspect of Episode 3.

Morilore wrote:

Stravo wrote:I think the more important question is in light of Mace's unwavering belief that he was right to kill Palpatine because he was too dangerous to keep alive why then is Anakin's sin of killing Dooku considered the final test of his fitness to be a Sith? Why is it held up as a prime example of the evil in Anakin's heart when Mace is willing to do the same as is Yoda later on in his confrontation with Palpatine?

Uh, that was the whole damn point? Anakin thinks, and doubts, and feels guilty, for something that Mace Windu does without hesitation. Mace Windu, the guy who disdains Anakin and thinks him unworthy of Jedi Mastery. The guy who must stand in Anakin's mind for everything judgemental about Jedi Code morality shows less hesitation about breaking it than Anakin did, and even uses the exact same words that the Sith Lord did. It's one of those parts of Anakin's fall that you sympathize with, and part of the whole Greek Tragedy aspect of Episode 3.

I always felt that it was the utter hypocrisy of Anakin that he does not do what he did earlier - kill a Sith lord who still posed a danger - and instead acted from pure selfishness (protect Padme) and killed Mace Windu who was doing the right thing. After all that was the hook Palpatine used when about to be killed "Only I can protect the one you love"

Killing Dooku earlier showed he was willing to kill for his own reasons (anger at Dooku for all that he had done) "He did cut off your arm" and killing Mace was the final culmination of that line of reasoning - i.e. Do anything to not lose Padme, acting out of selfish fear which of course leads to the dark side.

Mace was not acting out of selfish fear. He was acting out of the best interests of the Republic. That is the fine line that is missed when analyzing the scene and trying to equate it to what Anakin did. Mace acted in a global view Anakin's motives were purely personal and selfish.

Jedi Council: "You beheaded Dooku?"
Anakin: "The Chanceller ordered me to."

Air tight legal defense.

Palpatine was the Supreme Commander of the military
The Jedi were serving within the military as commanding officers, and therefore bound by the chain of command.

No officer of any military is legally mandated to obey commands they know to be unlawful. Summary executions of disarmed individuals no doubt applies, especially when there is a code of laws mandating conduct within this order that bars such conduct.

Stravo wrote:I always felt that it was the utter hypocrisy of Anakin that he does not do what he did earlier - kill a Sith lord who still posed a danger - and instead acted from pure selfishness (protect Padme) and killed Mace Windu who was doing the right thing. After all that was the hook Palpatine used when about to be killed "Only I can protect the one you love"

Palpatine said that when he was still trying to fight Windu off, and those words didn't provoke Anakin to attack. Anakin only struck after Palpatine was truly helpless, begging for mercy, and Windu had thrown off Anakin's Jedi Code objection with the exact same words that Palpatine had used to brush aside Anakin's regret over Dooku. Although, it would be going to far to assert that Anakin wasn't thinking about Padme as he did it - probably all the rights and wrongs of things were mixed up and confused with his fear.

Killing Dooku earlier showed he was willing to kill for his own reasons (anger at Dooku for all that he had done) "He did cut off your arm" and killing Mace was the final culmination of that line of reasoning - i.e. Do anything to not lose Padme, acting out of selfish fear which of course leads to the dark side.

Anakin's attack on Windu (he didn't actually kill him, you know) was a completely different kind of act than his murder of Dooku. The former was a split-second decision in a moment of intense emotion, the latter was a deliberate, cold-blooded action which Anakin both hesitated before and regretted afterwards. To my mind, Anakin's killing of Dooku is much more analogous to Windu's decision to "end this, once and for all." The salient point isn't that either or both were morally right or wrong, it's the hypocrisy. Anakin showed more concern for moral correctness (at least according to the Code which was all that he had known) than a man on the Council that preached that code, the very man who most opposed Anakin's whole career on the argument that he wasn't disciplined enough!

Mace was not acting out of selfish fear. He was acting out of the best interests of the Republic. That is the fine line that is missed when analyzing the scene and trying to equate it to what Anakin did. Mace acted in a global view Anakin's motives were purely personal and selfish.

That's the objective moral analysis, but it's not the ethic of the Jedi Order, which Mace preached and Anakin believed in, at least enough to feel bad about breaking it.

To get more to the point, the question you originally asked was "Why is it [Dooku's murder] held up as a prime example of the evil in Anakin's heart when Mace is willing to do the same as is Yoda later on in his confrontation with Palpatine?" I don't think that was the point at all. I think that scene was designed ot tell the viewer that Anakin isn't a sociopath yet, he still tries to live up to a standard and feels bad when he thinks he's failed. Or, to turn it around, whatever evil led Anakin to take a life exists also in the hearts of Mace and Yoda. You think it dilutes Anakin's evil when others show the same flaws; I think it emphasizes it, by pointing out that no one has a monopoly on righteousness.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:No officer of any military is legally mandated to obey commands they know to be unlawful. Summary executions of disarmed individuals no doubt applies, especially when there is a code of laws mandating conduct within this order that bars such conduct.

1 - Did the republic have such laws ?

2 - Can you really say that a force user is ever unarmed while conscious ?