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Posted: **2007-04-25 10:48am**

There have been quite a few official galaxy maps, from the cartoony NJO map to the maps in the Insider books and the Star Wars factfiles, but Del Ray will later be releasing a book which currently has the working title Atlas of the Star Wars Galaxy and which is being written by Jason Fry and an as of yet anonymous co-author (see this thread at TFN +http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx ... t=26612586)

So, what are the pitfalls?

Posted: **2007-04-25 10:53am**

Oh man, I hope there's not gonna be a huge swath of blank territory with Unknown Regions printed on it..

Posted: **2007-04-25 11:00am**

Oh man, I hope there're gonna be two Magellenic Fields as depicted in Obi-Wan's terminal in AOTC, making several references to "intergalactic" in the PT really intergalactic.

Posted: **2007-04-25 11:40am**

According to the updated announcement on TFN, the co-author is Dan Wallace.

I would have preference that this be a DK project rather than something published by Del Rey, if only because it would mean a higher-quality project. I've seen too many Star Wars reference books from Del Rey that have a rather cheap quality overall (although I haven't really looked at any of newer materials, though).

This opinion really doesn't have anything to do with canonicity or "towing the company line," just that I consider DK to be the superior publisher.

Posted: **2007-04-25 11:53am**

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:According to the updated announcement on TFN, the co-author is Dan Wallace.

I would have preference that this be a DK project rather than something published by Del Rey, if only because it would mean a higher-quality project. I've seen too many Star Wars reference books from Del Rey that have a rather cheap quality overall (although I haven't really looked at any of newer materials, though).

This opinion really doesn't have anything to do with canonicity or "towing the company line," just that I consider DK to be the superior publisher.

Dan Wallace?

Wasn't that he who made that dreadful NJO cartoon map?

Posted: **2007-04-25 12:42pm**

Mange wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:According to the updated announcement on TFN, the co-author is Dan Wallace.

I would have preference that this be a DK project rather than something published by Del Rey, if only because it would mean a higher-quality project. I've seen too many Star Wars reference books from Del Rey that have a rather cheap quality overall (although I haven't really looked at any of newer materials, though).

This opinion really doesn't have anything to do with canonicity or "towing the company line," just that I consider DK to be the superior publisher.
Dan Wallace? Wasn't that he who made that dreadful NJO cartoon map?

I know he did some of the NEGs, such as Chronology, Characters, and Droids one too. Some of the old EGs as well, like the Planets and Moons one. I can't recall that one, but he at least has some previous experience with the material then, so it may help in this book. *crosses fingers*

But yeah, like Spanky I'd rather have seen DK do this. Del Rey does okay, and I think they've gotten better. But DK still outclasses them by far imho.

Posted: **2007-04-25 02:13pm**

Lord Sander wrote:Oh man, I hope there's not gonna be a huge swath of blank territory with Unknown Regions printed on it..

During AOTC, all of the galaxy was obviously known with *ahem* at least one exception. After the Empire fell, the maps were intentionally destroyed and the rebels/NR/many more/ no longer had data on vast measures of outlaying space. This is the official retcon in place since, well, AOTC.

Posted: **2007-04-25 02:54pm**

nightmare wrote:
Lord Sander wrote:Oh man, I hope there's not gonna be a huge swath of blank territory with Unknown Regions printed on it..
During AOTC, all of the galaxy was obviously known with *ahem* at least one exception. After the Empire fell, the maps were intentionally destroyed and the rebels/NR/many more/ no longer had data on vast measures of outlaying space. This is the official retcon in place since, well, AOTC.

It's still quite retarded, though, since it's not like those systems would suddenly be dumped in a 'silent zone' - they'd still be communicating.

Posted: **2007-04-25 04:25pm**

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:According to the updated announcement on TFN, the co-author is Dan Wallace.

I would have preference that this be a DK project rather than something published by Del Rey, if only because it would mean a higher-quality project. I've seen too many Star Wars reference books from Del Rey that have a rather cheap quality overall (although I haven't really looked at any of newer materials, though).

This opinion really doesn't have anything to do with canonicity or "towing the company line," just that I consider DK to be the superior publisher.

Dan Wallace believes in total horseshit about the "extragalactic barrier" and stuff. Expect more of the cartoony crap.

Posted: **2007-04-25 04:25pm**

Guardsman Bass wrote:
nightmare wrote:
Lord Sander wrote:Oh man, I hope there's not gonna be a huge swath of blank territory with Unknown Regions printed on it..
During AOTC, all of the galaxy was obviously known with *ahem* at least one exception. After the Empire fell, the maps were intentionally destroyed and the rebels/NR/many more/ no longer had data on vast measures of outlaying space. This is the official retcon in place since, well, AOTC.
It's still quite retarded, though, since it's not like those systems would suddenly be dumped in a 'silent zone' - they'd still be communicating.

And one would presume the neighboring sectors would still trade with them. Ships would still regularly go to and from the area.

Posted: **2007-04-25 04:26pm**

nightmare wrote:
Lord Sander wrote:Oh man, I hope there's not gonna be a huge swath of blank territory with Unknown Regions printed on it..
During AOTC, all of the galaxy was obviously known with *ahem* at least one exception. After the Empire fell, the maps were intentionally destroyed and the rebels/NR/many more/ no longer had data on vast measures of outlaying space. This is the official retcon in place since, well, AOTC.

Uh, really? Since when/where? Everything I've seen on TFN and such has people thinking that that swathe was unexplored even during the PT.

Posted: **2007-04-25 04:35pm**

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
nightmare wrote:
Lord Sander wrote:Oh man, I hope there's not gonna be a huge swath of blank territory with Unknown Regions printed on it..
During AOTC, all of the galaxy was obviously known with *ahem* at least one exception. After the Empire fell, the maps were intentionally destroyed and the rebels/NR/many more/ no longer had data on vast measures of outlaying space. This is the official retcon in place since, well, AOTC.
Uh, really? Since when/where? Everything I've seen on TFN and such has people thinking that that swathe was unexplored even during the PT.

The galaxy was so totaly explored and mapped that in AOTC the Jedi archivist said that 'If it's not in the archive, it doesn't exist.' According to one of the RotS databooks, there were at least 22 unmapped systems, including Degobah and Kamino. All had been deleted from the database.

Posted: **2007-04-25 04:42pm**

Here's what you can expect on the galaxy from Dan Wallace - (on the 'extragalactic hyperspace barrier' that supposedly blocked extragalactic travel...except for the YV in the book it was introduced...except for the Rishi Maze...except for the IBC...except for Outbound Flight...etc., etc.)

Dan Wallace, Amateur Physicist, at sw.com wrote:Dan Wallace
Total Posts: 18
Member Since: 12/99

reply

Date Posted: Oct 30, 2003 09:58 AM

Some info regarding the "galactic barrier"...

Galaxies aren't as far apart as you might think. The Andromeda Galaxy, the nearest major spiral to us, is 2,200,000 light years distant from the Milky Way. At Star Wars speeds (7 hours from Alderaan to Tatooine according to RPG charts), it would take only 18 days to go from one galaxy to another.

So why hasn't anyone in SW done it before? It's a good question. Remember, a big part of the NJO hinged on the "otherness" of the extra-galactic invaders. The SW galaxy even had SETI-like "ExGal" observation stations whose purpose was to look for signs of life in neighboring galaxies. The obvious question: why not just hop in a ship and go visit there yourself?

Dan Wallace
Total Posts: 18
Member Since: 12/99

reply

Date Posted: Oct 30, 2003 09:59 AM

Hence the barrier, which isn't a giant glass sphere that you'll crash your ship into but rather a hyperspace disturbance that prevents faster-than-light travel. (My thought is that each galaxy creates gravitic "ripples" in hyperspace, and the barrier is formed when the ripples overlap each other at the midpoint and create a zone of hyperspace turbulence.)

This conveniently answers the main question, but it does raise a few issues of its own which were brought up and addressed during NJO planning:

(more)

Dan Wallace
Total Posts: 18
Member Since: 12/99

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Date Posted: Oct 30, 2003 10:01 AM

1) The barrier isn't utterly impassable. The Yuuzhan Vong obviously have no problem with it.

2) The barrier could presumably be "smoothed" for passage through the use of the Force. Hence the Outbound Flight Project, a group of Jedi Masters who wanted to search for life in other galaxies. In order to test the "smoothing" thing the OFP made a swing through the (presumably impassable!) Unknown Regions on its way out of the galaxy, where they were destroyed by Thrawn.

(more)

Dan Wallace
Total Posts: 18
Member Since: 12/99

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Date Posted: Oct 30, 2003 10:02 AM

3) According to Tales of the Bounty Hunters, the thing at the end of ESB is the galaxy far, far away -- the Rebel fleet had journeyed to a point in space well removed from the galactic plane. This isn't a problem at all. At SW speeds it wouldn't take more than a few days to reach that spot, and the galactic barrier was always conceived as existing at the midpoints between galaxies -- therefore it probably starts someplace just beyond their rendezvous site. (Maybe the fleet just kept flying out until hyperspace turbulence reverted them into realspace!)

Dan

I love this kind of shit. No sensible person can watch AOTC and conclude anything other than "the entire galaxy is explored, and their maps are totally comprehensive." But no, because Tim Zahn needed plot magic to beef-up his Gary Stu, and thought SW hyperspace speeds and civilization was Star Trek level, we are stuck with this crap. I love how he tries to explain his crap in terms of "gravitic ripples" or some such shit, like that makes any more sense than the "glass sphere" he disdains. He might as well call it magic Space Goo. It does not even meet the plot requirements that created it - the YV DID penetrate it, the Jedi CAN penetrate it, etc., etc. It is no more helpful to explain why there is no extragalactic travel. A better explanation is fuel economy problems and isolation.

Posted: **2007-04-25 05:40pm**

Well. So much for the slight bit of hopeful optimism I had. I'll probably still at least take a look at it, but it sounds like a continuation of the standard assinine EU bullshit. Seriously, you'd at least think they'd try to be somewhat in synch with the movies they're based off of.

Posted: **2007-04-25 05:45pm**

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Dan Wallace believes in total horseshit about the "extragalactic barrier" and stuff. Expect more of the cartoony crap.

IIRC, Curtis Saxton did debunk it and claimed that it was a psychological thing and compared it to the idea that the Earth was flat and if people sailed far, they could fall right off and said that the SW Galaxy likely had the same sentiments.

Posted: **2007-04-26 08:08am**

That "gravitic ripple" nonsense bothers me. In ANH, when Han is giving is hyperspace speach he mentioned the possibility of flying through a star. And in the original WEG rulebook (1987), it talks about ships using their sensors to detect gravity from large object in their path to avoid colliding with them.

I must confess that I'm not up on my EU, esp all the post RotJ stuff from the 90s. When and where did this idea of gravity preventing hyperspace travel come from?

Also, does anyone know where the idea of a hyperspace trade route originates?

Aaron

Posted: **2007-04-26 10:45am**

Illuminatus Primus wrote:H
I love this kind of shit. No sensible person can watch AOTC and conclude anything other than "the entire galaxy is explored, and their maps are totally comprehensive." But no, because Tim Zahn needed plot magic to beef-up his Gary Stu, and thought SW hyperspace speeds and civilization was Star Trek level, we are stuck with this crap.

well, technically, the hyperspace barrier actually came up in WEG material too, so, its not totally Zahn.

Posted: **2007-04-26 12:57pm**

Damn, now I have to read OutboundFlight again, because AFAIR there is nothing about a hyperspace-barrier in it.

Posted: **2007-04-26 01:01pm**

2) The barrier could presumably be "smoothed" for passage through the use of the Force. Hence the Outbound Flight Project, a group of Jedi Masters who wanted to search for life in other galaxies. In order to test the "smoothing" thing the OFP made a swing through the (presumably impassable!) Unknown Regions on its way out of the galaxy, where they were destroyed by Thrawn.

This just makes me want to scream in agony.

Posted: **2007-04-26 01:10pm**

Sigh. About the only good thing about that is his recognition of hyperdrive speed.

Posted: **2007-04-26 01:18pm**

Aaron2 wrote: I must confess that I'm not up on my EU, esp all the post RotJ stuff from the 90s. When and where did this idea of gravity preventing hyperspace travel come from?

IIRC, it's not the gravity preventing hyperspace thing, it's that ships normally won't enter hyperspace or drop out if they detect gravity for safety purposes

Posted: **2007-04-26 02:45pm**

PainRack wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:H
I love this kind of shit. No sensible person can watch AOTC and conclude anything other than "the entire galaxy is explored, and their maps are totally comprehensive." But no, because Tim Zahn needed plot magic to beef-up his Gary Stu, and thought SW hyperspace speeds and civilization was Star Trek level, we are stuck with this crap.
well, technically, the hyperspace barrier actually came up in WEG material too, so, its not totally Zahn.

Where?

Posted: **2007-04-26 03:05pm**

Warsie wrote:
Aaron2 wrote: I must confess that I'm not up on my EU, esp all the post RotJ stuff from the 90s. When and where did this idea of gravity preventing hyperspace travel come from?
IIRC, it's not the gravity preventing hyperspace thing, it's that ships normally won't enter hyperspace or drop out if they detect gravity for safety purposes

I would agree but disabling a safety feature is better than getting spanked by a couple of ISDs. Also, if it were just a case of disabling a safety features, then the ripple wall between galaxies wouldn't mean squat. That's my problem, you have a gravity barrier surrounding all galaxies but the barrier is only a problem if you misunderstand how SW hyperspace works. Gravity has to be inpenetrable in hyperspace for the gravity bubble to work.

A giant glass ball would have made more sense.

Posted: **2007-04-26 03:10pm**

Illuminatus Primus wrote:It is no more helpful to explain why there is no extragalactic travel. A better explanation is fuel economy problems and isolation.

It certainly sounds like a lousy rationalisation (I haven't read the relevant EU novels so I can't be sure). But I don't see how fuel economy or psychology are any better, if you accept the comparison to the Milky Way/Andromeda as valid. 18 days in hyperspace should be nothing for an ISD that carries 'consumables for 6 years' (and we've seen them operate independently for long periods in the novels). Psychology could explain an official reluctance to try, but in a galaxy with thousands of species, millions of inhabited worlds and billions of starships, someone is bound to try from time to time.

OTOH if by 'isolation' you mean 'the SW galaxy is in the middle of a supervoid, implying that the distance to the next galaxy is anywhere from 20 to 100 times as far as from here to Andromeda, then that's a perfectly good explanation and ties in well with the Vong's need for stupidly large ships to cross it even with hyperdrive technology. I don't think it's contradicted by anything in the films and it's certainly a greatly preferably explanation to "gravitic waves... and stuff... you know, like they had in 'Where No Man Has Gone Before".

Posted: **2007-04-26 03:31pm**

Aaron2 wrote:I would agree but disabling a safety feature is better than getting spanked by a couple of ISDs.

Okay

Also, if it were just a case of disabling a safety features, then the ripple wall between galaxies wouldn't mean squat. That's my problem, you have a gravity barrier surrounding all galaxies but the barrier is only a problem if you misunderstand how SW hyperspace works. Gravity has to be inpenetrable in hyperspace for the gravity bubble to work.

A giant glass ball would have made more sense.

As I said, Saxton did claim that it was simple psychology, but as others said, likely someone did do it. did Luke and Leia did end up going outside the Galaxy accidentally in one of the Marvel SW Comics and an ISD followed them there so..

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