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Yavin

Conflict: Galactic Civil War
Date: 0 BBY
Place: The Death Star near Yavin IV orbiting the gas giant Yavin in the Sumitra Sector
Name: Battle of Yavin
Type: Do or Die attack on Death Star for Rebels
Force Making Attack: Galactic Empire
Opposition: Rebel Alliance

Commanders

Galactic Empire:

Grand Moff Tarkin (Death Star)
General Tagge (Army Forces)
Admiral Motti (Station Operations)
Darth Vader (Black Squadron; Special command and envoy of Palpatine and had special powers)

Rebel Alliance:

Leia Organa (really did nothing coordinating the battle but did help with getting plans, morale boost and has authority)
General Dodonna (all Yavin System resources)
Commander Willard (helped?)
Various Imperial Senators and Planentary/Sector/Imperial Generals from planets who supported the Rebel Alliance, official or not.

Imperial Strength

1 160 km (small moon-sized) battle station, Death Star I
One planet-destroying Superlaser
Heavy Turbolasers - 170,280
Turbolasers - 380,348
Laser Cannons - 1,005,404
Ion Cannons - 190,140
Missile Tubes - 450,990
Fighters - 13,030 Wings (a wing is 72 fighters)
Troops - Up to 300 Legions
Crew - 19,807,000 (estimated)
Darth Vader's TIE Advanced
14+ Imperator-class Star Destroyers (“Imperial-class”)
Allecto (ISD)
Death’s Head (ISD)
Devastator (ISD)
Implacable (ISD)
Judicator (ISD)
Mathayus (ISD)
Relentless (ISD)
Stalker (ISD)
Thunderflare (ISD)
Tyrannic (ISD)
Tyrant (ISD)
Valorous (ISD)
Vehement (ISD)
Visage (ISD)

Alliance Attack Strength

17 X-wings (maybe 36) (Red) (Green) (Blue)
11Y-wings (maybe 12) (Gold)
2 R-22 Spearheads (early A-wings)
Alliance attack force likely around 50 star fighters (“dozens of craft”)

Rebels in the Yavin System
Yavin Space Station
4+ Calamari Cruisers in System
Independence (MC80) (Calamari Cruiser)
Alliance (MC80) (Calamari Cruiser)
Autonomy (MC80) (Calamari Cruiser)
Maria (MC80) (Calamari Cruiser)
1+ Acclamator-II class Star Frigate
Rand-Ecliptic (Acclamator-II-class Star Frigate)
20+ Nebulon-B frigates
Akaga (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Angelus (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Antares Six (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Chancellor (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Free Lance (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Fugazi (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Kalla’s Stanchion (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Kuma (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Liberator (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Lightning (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Lion (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Mercy (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Peacemaker (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Persistence (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Provocateur (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Rebel Star (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Redemption (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Tedevium (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Tharen (Nebulon-B Frigate)
Yavaris (Nebulon-B Frigate)
30+ Corellian Corvettes (CR90 Corvette)
Crescent 1 (CR90 Corvette)
Crescent 2 (CR90 Corvette)
Crescent 3 (CR90 Corvette)
Crescent 4 (CR90 Corvette)
Crescent 5 (CR90 Corvette)
Striker 1 (CR90 Corvette)
Striker 2 (CR90 Corvette)
Striker 3 (CR90 Corvette)
Hammer 1 (CR90 Corvette)
Hammer 2 (CR90 Corvette)
Hammer 3 (CR90 Corvette)
DS 1 (CR90 Corvette)
DS 2 (CR90 Corvette)
Arrow (CR90 Corvette)
Burke (CR90 Corvette)
Coffey (CR90 Corvette)
Dodonna’s Pride (CR90 Corvette)
Frazier (CR90 Corvette)
Freedom’s Messenger (CR90 Corvette)
Mahan (CR90 Corvette)
Manx (CR90 Corvette)
Masanya (CR90 Corvette)
Master (CR90 Corvette)
Nimble (CR90 Corvette)
Rancor’s Tooth (CR90 Corvette)
Raze (CR90 Corvette)
Razor (CR90 Corvette)
Sonnel (CR90 Corvette)
Stellar Damsel (CR90 Corvette)
Swift (CR90 Corvette)
16+ Corellian Gunships (DP-20 Gunships)
Active (DP-20 Gunship)
Adventure (DP-20 Gunship)
Bruizer (DP-20 Gunship)
Diligence (DP-20 Gunship)
Incomparable (DP-20 Gunship)
Mediator (DP-20 Gunship)
Orion (DP-20 Gunship)
Thrasher (DP-20 Gunship)
Strathadam (DP-20 Gunship)
Warspite (DP-20 Gunship)
Vindicta (DP-20 Gunship)
Kingsmill (DP-20 Gunship)
Victorious (DP-20 Gunship)
Watchful (DP-20 Gunship)
Thracian (DP-20 Gunship)
Pervail (DP-20 Gunship)
18+ Marauder Corvettes
Retribution (Marauder Corvette)
Aeolus (Marauder Corvette)
Agamemnon (Marauder Corvette)
Albion (Marauder Corvette)
Bellerophon (Marauder Corvette)
Bonaventure (Marauder Corvette)
Cadmus (Marauder Corvette)
Canopus (Marauder Corvette)
Devaron (Marauder Corvette)
Indefatigable (Marauder Corvette)
Maidstone (Marauder Corvette)
Speedwell (Marauder Corvette)
Swiftsure (Marauder Corvette)
Tribune (Marauder Corvette)
Triton (Marauder Corvette)
Undaunted (Marauder Corvette)
Venerable (Marauder Corvette)
Venturer (Marauder Corvette)
Other Alliance warships and transports

Yavin Base

Yavin Great Temple modified to be base (scanners, comm systems, hangars and weapons emplacements)
Several other Massassi Temples extensively modified (hangars and launch points for Rebel ships)
Several wings of X and Y wings.
Some R-22 Spearheads (early A-wings)
Several squadrons of Z-95 headhunters
Several Squadrons of V-wings
Several squadrons of ARC-170s
Several Squadrons of T-47 Airspeeders
Other squadrons of various fighters
Several pole laser cannons scattered through jungle around base
Many Alliance troops, crews, and officers.
LAAT Gunships
19+ Galofree Medium Transports
Rusty Eagle-type Transports
Corellian Heavy Lifters
Xizor Container Transports of various types
Other Alliance transports
Various Yutrane-Takata Rebel Tanks
Alliance Hover Tanks (T1B and T2Bs, etc)
Alliance Attack Tanks (various types)
Alliance Hover Transports
Proton Torpedo Launchers (MPTL-1 and 2a)
Hover Transports
4+ Stormtrooper Transports
Goat 1 (Stormtrooper Transport)
Goat 2 (Stormtrooper Transport)
Lebo 1 (Stormtrooper Transport)
Lebo 2 (Stormtrooper Transport)
6+ Bulk Freighters
Bo 1 (Bulk freighter)
Bo 2 (Bulk Freighter)
D3RM3 (Bulk Freighter)
Khan 1 (Bulk Freighter)
Khan 2 (Bulk Freighter)
Khan 3 (Bulk Freighter)
Op Mus
Dobll 1
Dobll 2
Dobll 3
Dobll 4
Pl’eeh 1
Pl’eeh 2
Trips
2+ Lambda-class shuttles
Chipr 1 (Lambda-class shuttle)
Chipr 2 (Lambda-class shuttle)

Imperial Objectives

Primary
Destroy Yavin IV and its’ Alliance Base
Defend the Death Star I at least until Yavin IV is destroyed

Secondary
Shoot down all Alliance fighters
Defend Exhaust port from Alliance fighters

Alliance Objectives

Primary
Destroy the Death Star before it can destroy Yavin IV.

Target Of Opportunity
Capture or Kill Darth Vader

X-wings were Red, Green and Blue Squadrons (36?)
Y-wings were Gold Squadron (12?)
As 4 squadrons were sent, it is likely it is 48 Alliance fighters, not 30

Rebs: This was to defend the Alliance base on Yavin, representing a Large Amount of supplies, ships and forces on the moon or orbiting the moon. This is also to help stop the Empire and give the Alliance a large advantage.

Imps: This was to help crush the rebellion once and for all, provide a resounding defeat by killing much of High Command, a major base and many Alliance forces, equipment and resources.

The first DS first had the frame, superlaser and main reactor built, then the construction moves out and in, filling in the spaces inside the Death Star, until it is fully complete. The 1st Death Star wasn’t fully operational, even when it was outwardly complete, it took a systems check to see that it was complete.

Getting the Plans for the Death Star I:
The Alliance set into motion the biggest anti-Imperial offensive it had ever attempted in its two years of existence. Larger operations likely took place in the past, but this was the Rebel Alliance, now unified. The Declaration of Rebellion and the Corellian Treaty must be the final reconciliation between the former Loyalist and Separatists who joined the Rebel Alliance. This explains why it took 17 years to form a unified Galactic Resistance movement.

The missions were a complex, coordinated operation to compile a complete set of plans for the Death Star battlemoon, and transmit them to the Rebel Alliance base on Yavin IV or Alderaan by Bail Organa's ship, the Tantive IV.

An Imperial convoy is to stop off at Toprawa to pick up the control system plans from the data vaults of the research station. Rebel forces on Danuta had learned that Lemelisk had visited the local research facility and had obtained video of another set of Death Star plans being held there. The problem was that the Toprawa plans included the battle station's hull design and life support infrastructure. The Danuta plans included additional engineering schematics and a complete map to the offensive and defensive weapons emplacements, which would be needed for a informed, coordinated Rebel assault on the battlestation.

Also, technical data from the battlestation had been intercepted using stolen Imperial satellites, the Imperial Research Station and Imperial Vaults on Toprawa were holding the superlaser control system plans, and other plants had been stolen during a Rebel Prison break in the Death Star and sent to a Rebel base on Polis Massa. All of this information was needed to get as much information as possible and to help ensure a complete idea on how the Death Star worked, etc. The unified Rebel Alliance forces on Toprawa had a shot at the convoy, striking from Yavin IV, winning their first major battle against the Galactic Empire while Mon Mothma took Jan Ors’ advice and recruited an imperial defector named Kyle Katarn to infiltrate the Danuta facility.

The Rebel Alliance forces attacked the convoy over Toprawa and obtained the plans at heavy cost (over 100 Rebels were killed in the process, (an indication on the size of the Rebel Forces), it seems too much for the current Rebel Fighter Squadrons, but less than the crew size of a Corellian Corvette). In the course of the battle, the Alliance was able to damage an Imperial battle cruiser significantly to the point that it had to flee the battle. Hjowever, the Empire sent reinforcements and threw a tight blockade around the system in response, lead by 3 Imperator-class Star Destroyers, the Devastator, Accuser and Thunderflare with more than 80 support ships, based on the type of fleet this could be. Katarn succeeded in stealing the Danuta plans, apparently sending them to Toprawa, and the satellite technical data was stored aboard the shuttle Maria. In order to receive the various sets of plans, Bail Organa was prepared to take the Tantive IV to meet the shuttle Maria before making a close pass to Toprawa, finally arriving at Tatooine to possibly receive a transmission from Polis Massa and request help from Jedi-in-exile Obi-Wan Kenobi. The Rebels also had a decent presence on Tatooine. Leia volunteered to go in his stead, though Bail Organa took some convincing before finally giving in.

Keyan Farlander and members of Red Squadron protected the Tantive IV while the data was transferred from the Maria to the Tantive IV‘s computer. Four other corvettes like the Sundred Heart were used as decoys in order to protect the Tantive's identity, but the Imperator-class Star Destroyer Immortal arrived, and launched an attack on the Rebels. Thanks to Keyan Farlander, the Tantive IV managed to escape to Toprawa. There is a problem, the Immortal attacked the Rebels, but the Devastator didn’t immediately open fire. The Immortal didn’t I.D. the ships, or the diplomatic immunity likely meant the Imperials couldn’t do anything or didn’t know and the Imperials simply told them to heave over and prepare for boarding.

On Toprawa, the Rebel agents were being hunted down by Imperial Commander Diamond. They recruited a young Force-sensitive man named Havet Storm to steal the control system plans, which were combined with the additional Danuta and Toprawa plans.

On the Tantive IV, Leia Organa and Captain Antilles (not related to the Corellian Wedge Antilles as far as we know) planned to fake an extravehicular malfunction upon their arrival in the Toprawan system, in order to provide a reason for their presence in a restricted/blockaded/sealed off system. They also recruited two droids from the ship's labor pool, Artoo Deeto (R2) and See Threepio (C-3PO). Artoo was fixed with a transceiver in order to receive the Toprawan transmission, and was sent outside the ship to the navicomputer suite. Threepio was instructed to receive repair reports from Artoo, as though the astrodroid were fixing a malfunction.

While Bria Theran and the rest of Red Hand Squadron held off Imperial forces after breaking in and getting the data, Havet Storm transmitted the technical data to Leia’s starship. The burst transmission succeeded, but the Devastator was able to discover the transmission by its sensors which were probing the area.. When Leia refused to allow Imperial investigators aboard her ship, the Devastator opened fire on Tantive IV as Tantive IV was jumping into hyperspace. Claming that it was proceeding on a diplomatic mission, the Tantive IV jumped to the Tatooine system. Earlier, Imperial Intelligence had tracked stolen plans to Polis Massa. The 501st raided the base, but was unable to completely prevent the Rebels from beaming their set of plans to Leia Organa or the Rebels, the plans weren‘t found there. Captured Bothan spies said that Leia was heading to the Tatooine system to receive the final transmission (likely lies, it was to get Ben Kenobi), and an Imperial Fleet was able to reach Tatooine before the Tantive IV arrived. The Imperial fleet fought off pirates, and set an ambush for Tantive IV. The Tantive IV and several other Corellian Corvettes arrived, and the Devastator arrived shortly after on that same vector pursuing Tantive IV. The Immobilizers in the Imperial Fleet activated its gravity-well projectors, trapping and destroying the Rebel Fleet (4 other Corellian Corvettes), and Tantive IV was captured by Devastator. The Rebels managed to put the plans into R2-D2, with C-3PO and they escaped in an escape pod, which the Devastator didn’t shoot as no life forms were onboard.

Vader realized that those plans were in the escape pod not shot and ordered the Imperial Fleet to deploy ground forces to look for the plans. As they searched, the Imperial Forces fought Rebels in the Dune Sea. The droids were captured by Jawas and sold to Owen and Beru Lars. R2 was freed of the restraining bolt placed on him and he was found by Ben Kenobi, as well as Luke Skywalker and C-3PO in the Jundland wastes after Ben scared the Tusken Raiders attacking Luke, and then they went to Ben’s house, where Ben told Luke about the lightsaber, then Luke and Ben go to a burning sandcrawler, which was noticed. They arrive, note the burning sandcrawler and Luke goes back to the moisture farm, which is burned by the Empire and his aunt and uncle are dead. Luke then goes back to the sandcrawler, where the jawas are being burned. Ben and Luke go to Mos Eisley with the droids looking for a starship pilot to go to Alderaan, and they find Han Solo with Chewbacca, who tells them to go to Docking Bay 94, which they do. The Imperials notice this and try to keep then from escaping, but they escape in the Millennium Falcon. Shortly Later, the Imperials arrive in force to cleanse the city of Rebels, defeating them and the Tatooine guerillas (3 years later, the Rebels return to liberate Tatooine or the Imperials simply withdraw from the planet). The Falcon gets through the blockade of Imperators (what about the Immobilizers, are they somewhere else now or caught off guard?) and go to Alderaan, which has recently been destroyed by the Empire. Their ship is captured, and they sneak in and rescue Princess Leia while Ben Kenobi disables the tractor beam. They escape after Ben Kenobi disables the tractor beams and he duels Darth Vader and dies letting Vader kill him. In that time they get on the Falcon and escape to Yavin IV, after dealing with the fighters. They arrive at Yavin IV and give the plans to Commander Willard, and Dodonna analyzes the plans for the attack.

Pre-Battle:

The Death Star can destroy a terrestrial world around Alderaan’s size, and up to gas giant planets like Yavin (though for Yavin it would be slower, based on Saxton‘s SWTC) This, combined with the defending Imperial Star Destroyers, TIE wings, troops, guns, sheer size would scare the crap out of even experienced people (Han Solo) who actually served in the Imperial Navy in the Core Worlds. This fits’ Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin’s “Doctrine of Fear” (:“Rule through the fear of force, rather than force itself“) to intimidate Rebel Worlds (and worlds thinking of being Rebel Worlde) to not be Rebel Worlds. It’s likely much more of a threat to planetary governments than the Alliance leaders, part of the Doctrine of Fear. Starve the Rebels off by scaring sympathetic worlds from helping..

There was no reason to stand and fight at Yavin especially with a one in a million shot as your only way of victory and how the hell did they know that Tarkin wouldn't launch fighters? Why in god's name would you send two squadons against a vessel that is carryting thousands of squadrons?

During the Falcon’s arrival, a Rebel Trooper points at the Falcon with some sort of device? It, for many might be considered a gun, but it seems to be some sort of sensor, ID or range finder, as he follows the Falcon with this device, than looks at the readings once it lands.

The Death Star “mounts more than half the power of the Imperial fleet” Dodonna is likely referring to the Imperator-class Star Destroyers, and the firepower mentioned is the superlaser.

The ANH novelization makes it to seem as that field Generators (shield or Magnetic fields?) on the Death Star’s surface could reduce maneuverability for small star fighters and also jam computers, etc. The Death Star does also have jammers on its’ surface to mess with targeting computers and other systems.

Some would say that the cost of the Death Star the equivalent of around twenty sector-groups of which the empire had thousands. This would be around 1400 Imperators, but there are the smaller Victories and other capital ships. There is also that surplus was mainly used and much of it was mined using slave labor, so that cuts down on the cost. It still could be much higher.

The Death Star has 8-superlasers, which merge to form one big laser to destroy planets. Each superlaser combines to form one powerful weapon, each small beam helps guide the main beam.

Battlefront makes it seem as the Imperials established a small outpost on Yavin IV, looking for the Rebel presence there. They did find Rebels, and after a short battle, they left. Were these troops deployed from a Strike Cruiser (At least 4 of these were on the Death Star). The Strike Cruisers were said to be “scout ships” so they probably went to Dantooine to find the Rebels, and deployed the troops to Yavin IV after going there to make sure Rebels were there. Wouldn’t the appearance of Imperials scare the Rebels into evacuating? Probably not, they already knew a 160km Death Star was coming to get them. When the Imperials find Rebels or other things of interest, do they first send Scout Ships, before sending the Star Destroyers of do they immediately jump toward the battle (as what happened at Hoth 3 years later) The Rebels could escape if the Imperials first sent Scout Ships in these situations because that would be a warning of a stronger Imperial presence, but if they attack with their fleets first, the supply lines would be vulnerable to attack, being stretched more with a lack of escort vessels (like Nebulon- B frigates, etc.) and some transports would not be aware of the course changes, leaving them vulnerable also. X-wing Alliance has a smaller craft for a scout ship, but it can’t carry 200 imperial troops plus the crew with some fighter tanks though and it seems weird to land on a planet’s surface (of course, landing gear fixes that problem) That is why I say a Strike Cruiser landed for the advance force (weird that it wasn’t shot down by any nearby Rebel Warships, at least 2 Calamari Cruisers were in the system with other ships) Maybe the Rebels thought the ship would pass through (but the ships in orbit would be detected) Were Rebel fighters scrambled to shoot it down quickly?

Before the battle, one of General Tagge’s subordinating officers redistributed the gunners in alphabetical order about the station to try to encourage crews to become effective in any combination. Because of that, the unity between gun crews and targeting co-ordinators was shattered.

General Tagge took the Rebellion seriously realizing the Alliance Fleet was larger and more powerful than many other Imperials, but he was overruled by his superior officers, like Tarkin when it came to using his advice. It is said that “If he had taken his complaint directly to the Emperor, he may have been a "Military Hero" to a victorious Galactic Empire.” Tarkin only thought they could only “mar the surface” of the Death Star, and during the first portions they did, attacking like “stinging insects”.

According to the Farlander Papers, before the battle, during the night the MC80a Independence arrived to supply some starfighters to Yavin Base and to get repairs from and a Imperial attack at Bestine IV. This shows the Alliance had some sort of facility, likely on the ground to be able to repair Calamari Cruisers of at least 1,200 meters long. It could also mean repair work was done in space with repair workers, or that the damage was light. That might’ve been Yavin Station. The Independence likely stayed during the battle but was orbiting the moon or elsewhere in the system.

The type of Calamari Cruiser the Independence was could carry 3 squadrons of star fighters, which is 36 craft. At the time, there were only X and Y wings and some R-22 Spearheads (A-wing Prototypes) The 2 A-wings and some of the star fighters were likely provided by the Independence.

According to Classic Star Wars: Escape to Hoth, Battlefront II, and the ANH novelization it is very likely there was a Rebel fleet orbiting the moon, consisting of Rebel Dreadnaughts, the Rand Ecliptic, Nebulon-B Frigates and several other ships likely at the time of the battle, as shown by The Imperials’ expectations of a “massive defense” of Yavin IV. This attack, at its’ most aggressive would have the Rebel forces attempt to disable or damage the superlaser, as there is a tube there that runs to the main reactor. A capital ship assault would most likely concentrate on this area, and fighters launched by the capital warships would concentrate on this area in support of the capital ships.

This could be attacked or the crystal damaged sufficiently to prevent the Imperials from destroying Yavin IV (or better yet, the superlaser destroys the Death Star, if the Darksaber (a Hutt super weapon, basically a stripped-down Death Star with only the skeleton built 12 years later) superlaser wasn‘t synchronized exactly, the station would be destroyed (or heavily damaged) by its‘ own lasers.. There was another Calamari Cruiser in the system that was immobilized by the 50lst Legion after the Battle of Yavin IV. That ship probably escaped. However, the sheer amount of turbo lasers could likely decimate any rebel fleet; Lemisk made sure the Death Star could do that.

Yavin Base likely had several or many wings of fighters, and other defenses, considering that the Alliance modified the Massassi Great Temple, as well as other transports extensively adding in hardware, like communication systems and weapons emplacements installed both inside the temples and on its surface. Add to that the base's Gallofree transports, Corellian Corvettes and other freighters/transports seem to all be tucked away deep within the Great Temples, but other Transports seem to be in the open or covered by the jungle for possible protection from enemy bombers and orbital detection (and for the Great Temple, possible resistance from orbital bombardment, but not much)

Alternatively, the radio dramatization says that they are highly-unprepared for battle and they should evacuate. The throne room ceremony prove that wrong, and they likely mean unprepared for battle against a Death Star, which is very large, powerful and intimidating, but then again they did this to keep other worlds from being destroyed by the Death Star’s superlaser, believing that if they failed there, they would not be lucky again and would be screwed eventually anyway, and that other systems would be destroyed (like, for example Mon Calamari) so they were forced to enter combat, at least for the environment and safety of numerous worlds. Maybe they thought they had a reasonable chance to destroy the Death Star. Maybe they could not evacuate everyone quickly, but maybe the Alliance Fleet scattered thorough the system. However, after the DS was destroyed, the Rebels still had some ships in orbit, and the early revenge Imperial blockades/raiding forces caught them in orbit, either fleeing or just orbiting. Also, the Rebels did have a Jedi helping them out and the Alliance knew that, with a person skilled in the Force. Another thing is that if they left, the Alliance might not get the location again (however this is disproved by the Alliance able to monitor the DS’ moves)

Another thing is that at Yavin, the Alliance was not really at optimum condition to evacuate (but they did have plans) anytime soon, they corrected this at Hoth designing the base to be abandoned. It seems odd that the Alliance did have their transports locked down so deeply that they couldn't launch them in hours, considering Imperial Reaction time. However, this was before Yavin, and the Alliance was not considered the major threat of the Empire (there were several non-Alliance rebellions), and Palpatine left the job (mainly) to Tarkin to destroy the Alliance.

Any conventional defense against the Death Star would have focused on disabling the superlaser or propulsion. The rebels, instead of following the Imperials’ expectations chose to assault a thinly defended section of the Death Star (the portion of the Death Star closer to the pole is more heavily-defended, as Rogue Squadrons II and III show), which was the insertion point into the trench. It could be that in conventionally critical areas, the point defenses would have slaughtered them, however that isn‘t likely as the Imperial engineers specifically designed it only for repelling capital ship attacks, TIEs would deal with enemy fighters or the enemy fighters would be ignored by the Imperials (“they don‘t expect a fighter to be a threat, or they‘d have a tighter defense”-General Jan Dodonna briefing the pilots). The exhaust port itself was been well defended, which is why the rebels had to use the trench for cover and enter it at a point well away from their target. Some Alliance pilots, like Wedge Antilles also thought it was impossible.

The Death Star approached from the same Vector as the Falcon. BOTH had to go around Yavin I to get to Yavin IV, even though there was a day in difference. This gives us an idea of Yavin IV’s orbital time of Yavin I, which is supposedly 4 months based on other sources.

The speed of downloading seems high (the 1337 haxxorz mon!!). In a few seconds, the entire data of the Death Star was sent from R2 to the Rebel Computers. Dodonna analyzed the plans and worked tirelessly to make sure the plans were right, looking for weaknesses, etc. He spent the entire night from the day the plans came to the next day the DS arrived. As this was the Alderaanian Rebels’ last hope, and many Imperial senators and Generals of various worlds or defected Imperials were there, and they could be also helping and checking and checking over and over again, or was General Dodonna was the main person doing the “all-nighter”? However, the day later, he seemed to be up and awake, not sleepy and tired, hmmm he seemed to be an old man, but wasn’t sleepy or fatigued. Did he have a nice cup of coffee…or an equivalent energy booster? Is he active, exercising, etc? Eh, he had a son and often children can keep people active, and supposedly have them live longer, so maybe his son was that.

The novelization Of Episode IV maks it seem that it was almost a day between Luke's arrival and the Death Star’s arrival. Luke was training on an X-Wing simulator and scored the highest they had ever seen before they even get to the briefings, Leia was anxious the night before the Battle of Yavin on Yavin IV (but could still sleep), and that General Dodonna spent all night looking at the battle station plans, looking over the weaknesses and making sure that this would work. Was the analysis at least a few hours long, or was it longer. The fact that people like Leia, etc could sleep for a night shows that the Alliance likely knew the Death Star’s speed or had agents onboard (there was a Ralltiir insurgent who was onboard, he was trying to kill an Imperial Officer in revenge for the officer accidentally killing a hospital full of women and children, likely motivated more as the Imperial Officer was a Ralltiir himself) so there was other ways of watching. Empire At War says that the Death Star can be tracked, likely the Rebels had a bunch of agents/sensors onboard the battestation. The Death Star did head to Carida after Alderaan want boom, to drop off some of the Imperial Engineers who witnessed Alderaan’s destruction (did the scientists also see Despayre go boom?, and did they go to the Maw or not) and there was probably another stop-off point for the DS (an Imperial officer from Ralltiir was transferred to the DS before it want to Yavin) so Tarkin likely was not as impatient.

Why did Leia send the plans directly to Yavin IV, even after she thought they were being tracked. Was she confident enough that there was a weakness, did she have a lack of judgement, or did the Falcon already jump into Hyperspace when she said that they were being tracked, and it’s useless as the Empire could track their vector to Yavin. Could she rendezvous with another Alliance warship, which would then transfer the data to the Alliance? Or did the Falcon not have a way to transmit info (it took decent damage from the TIEs, so…). Alderaan was destroyed, so Alliance chain of command was broken maybe and she was still sad at her homeworld and father’s death (and being tortured by Vader), so maybe she was still in shock and not completely thinking correctly. Was there any nearby Alliance ships to rendezvous with anyway?

What does Imperial Torture entail? Based on the novelization, there was not much torture and Vader simply drugged her and pretended to be her father (well, he is , her biological father, but he was referring to her adopted father, Bail Organa), to say she’s on Alderaan and to tell him where the plans are, but she still noticed the trick while drugged and didn’t tell. The ROTJ noveliation says that she was drugged, and tortured by going to the weak spots/pressure and pain spots, and when she almost lost willpower when Vader stopped the torture, either out of disappointment/giving up and/or safety for her. The interrogation droid has a needle…what does it have. (Based on Jedi Outcast, they have something that can sap a person’s health, but that was several years in the future; those were modified to be guards.) I wonder if Vader and/or the Imperial Naval Troopers participated in the beat down/ “putting the hurt.


Battle:
Vader remarks that “This day has seen the end of Kenobi. It will soon see the end of the Rebellion.” So this means that the Death Star can travel from a Core World (the Alderaan System) to an Outer Rim system (Yavin) in less than 24 Hours. Alternatively, the Battle of Yavin and Ben Kenobi’s death took place in the same day, not within 24 hours of each other.

There is a lack of pilots who volunteered for the mission to destroy the Death Star on Yavin Base. Were they all afraid? Was the lack of pilots the real reason why only around 50 fighters were sent? Did the orbiting fleet know about it, likely as Keyan Farlander was on the Independence and went down to the surface base to volunteer. The base has few Imperial credits stored (the various pilots, mechanics, and so on likely have some money on them), but there is precious metals for repairs and to keep weapons and equipment functioning, as well as bartering for money.

Dodonna’s tactical displays weren’t holographic (compare this to the Home One hologram 4 years later and Imperial Holograms), the novelization describes a hologram breaking in the battle, though. This means the Alliance did have Hologram technology as early as Yavin.

Dodonna seemed to only be able to quickly brief 4 fighter squadrons, alternatively he did it for the pilots own good, if it was earlier, they would have to worry about it and he wanted the pilots to have some fun on their possible last mission. Maybe he was afraid The Empire had other devices in the base of that the Empire could find out about it and to correct that, he did it as late as possible to make sure the Empire had the least amount of prep time.

It seems that the hangar bay for the fighters on Yavin IV was closed, and had to be opened, for a precaution against Imperial fighter and walker attacks. Also, the openings were referred as “launch tubes”

Gold Squadron launched first, followed by Red Squadron judging from the hangar announcements. The picture from the movie shows X-wings, Red Squadron probably launching first instead. X-wings don’t need as much maintenance as Y-wings, the reason the Y-wings pipes and stuff is left exposed is because of the constant need of repairs, and the Alliance techs got tired of it and left the plates off. X-wings don’t need as much repair.

The Alliance base on Yavin IV seems to have a large amount of Astromech Droids, as shown when an Alliance Tech asked if Luke wanted another R2 unit. This was accomplished by a smuggling run to Xyquine that resulted in the death of one pilot and a lost X-wing.

It seems that X-wings use some sort of liquid fuel; X and Y-wings also aren’t immediately ready, the Astromechs are inserted for combat and need a decent amount of preparation (guns, cockpits) but this was a major battle, not a minor raid; they had to be sure. It seemed that one of the things done was Y-wing Ion Cannon maintenance.

For some reason, Rebel Technicians didn’t place the Astromech Droids in yet, until before battle. Maybe pilot work well with their own droids, and people sometimes don’t know which ships they will take out.

Dreis was wondered and nervous, checking if Luke could handle an X-wing. However, other say that ht’ll do good, ad Skyhoppers and X-wings are both made by Incom, and Incom designed its’ ships for even novices (noobs) to do good in combat, designing its’ control pamel to be like those on civilian craft, etc) I wonder why Deris was worried, considering that he knew Luke’s dad being a Jedi during the Battle of Virjulansi and the force being hereditary often…..hmmm

The Main Reactor for the first Death Star appeared on the Yavin rebel pilots' briefing animation as a bulb with a diameter of just less than a tenth of that of the whole station, 16 km wide according to Curtis Saxton‘s Star Wars Technical Commentaries.

Tarkin didn’t want destroy the Yavin gas giant which would‘ve messed up Yavin IV, he wanted to savor the experience, and thought the Death Star is invincible. However, it could be gems in the atmosphere, or he didn’t want to take a risk with the beam’s reaction with the Gas Giant (bending it maybe in weird ways?)

It took 15 minutes to scramble Alliance fighters and get them past the Gas Giant Yavin. That might be because of the Proton Torpedo loading and fueling times or fueling for what because of what happens if the mission fails, to rendezvous with other Alliance forces. Loading stomachs also added to that. However they had enough confidence to not attempt to evacuate Yavin.

The fact that “The Senators and Generals” of several planets were there showed some confidence that the Alliance gained in them and that the Imperial Senate dissolved. This also showed that this was the Alliance HQ.

“Dozens of fighters” were launched from Yavin IV. The Alliance sent only 2 (4?) squadrons of star fighters, and no capital ships because of the weakness. The Cap. Ships would’ve been easily destroyed by the DS‘s turbolasers. They didn’t want to risk more squadrons, as a small force could penetrate the defense, and the Empire (well, actually Grand Moff Tarkin) wouldn’t take it seriously if they sent that amount of ships (and the type, only snubfighters), and TIEs wouldn’t be launched. It was likely that the Empire would ignore them completely. The Death Star’s turbo lasers were designed for Capital warships, fighter craft can evade the turbolasers easily .

The safety features built into the targeting computer programs didn't allow the Imperial weapons to fire when any portion of the station was within its sights. That weakness was exploited by the Rebels who flew courses that wouldn't allow the weapon towers to fire without risk of hitting the station.

Several (around 12?) Imperator-class Star Destroyers were in orbit of DS forming a defensive “halo” The Alliance must’ve been able to easily avoid them, since they were in snub fighters. The Death Star has defensive zones and likely has deflector shields (as well as the magnetosphere)

The Death Star doesn’t seem to have surface shields, but the Alliance caught them by surprise. The Death Star has a magnetosphere, though. The DS magnetosphere seems to be able to be able to harm or scramble X-wings‘ sensors; Red Squadron put their deflector shields to “double front”

Alternatively, there could likely be small gaps in the deflector shields of the first Death Star; the Empire likely believed that this was harmless since only fightercraft could wiggle through the gaps, which the Empire did not believe to be much of a threat, as the TIEs would deal with them or they would be ignored.

The Death Star I’s shields, as said (typed) above this text were not designed to repel fighter attacks, or it would be tighter. The Death Star’s shields could be looser and had gaps in it. The shield is effective at stopping an attack by capital warships but thy are not overlapping, or between the shields you can fire through, as shown in the Black Fleet crisis. Shields that meet together tend to weaken each other, so layers are placed on shields, one layer on top of another for planetary shields or enemy warships cold simply shoot through the weak spots where the sections meet. The Death Star has several layers of shields and the Rebels flew through them slowly, at the edges or both. There is a cutscene on the Death Star plans with General Dodonna where squares are shown as the screen zooms into the DS (likely the shields), you could possibly fly at the edges or close to the edges of the squares. The Rebels could’ve had done this several times, flying slowly, at the shield edges and not being noticed due to being close to the shields possibly. I wonder how the Rebels would’ve zoomed out the way Luke and the others did.

Missiles and torpedoes, however traveling at a greater speed would hit the shields like at Naboo where the AAT fire by the Trade Federation crashed against the Gungan Grand Army shield, also their on-board computers could sense the disturbances as surface contact and explode, when it wasn‘t. If they were faster, would they notice buffeting, but they would then hit the shield then.

The fighters “accelerated to attack speed” after they passed the outer shields. It could be like at the Battle of Naboo where things traveling fast are detected and crash into the shield, while slow things can pass through the shield. The Rebels could’ve been going below the speed where the shield would prohibit entry. There is also Tarkin, who probably didn’t notice the fighters until they attacked or didn’t give a fuck, 50 Rebel Warships vs. one moon-sized battle station with a shitload of fighters, troops, etc in its hangars and millions of turbolasers, ion cannons, etc. Raising a strong shield could be more expensive, with the hypermatter fuel going to other things and possibly taking power away from the superlaser (Alderaan disproves this but the Death Star wasn’t in a tight orbit there, the tightest orbit that is possible or safe, Tarkin was leisurely at this. Tarkin, being Grand Moff (basically governor-general, both military and civilian power) ignored his experience and let the politics get the better of him here and in not launching TIEs, not defending the exhaust port and not evacuating the battle station or moving his command post.

Red Leader ordered them to raise their shields and “lock down freeze-floating controls” This must be to keep the ship from moving, firing, etc unpredictability, so X-wings have a control that is more sensitive and it can be turned off so you need more strength to move the controls. Small moving, etc could mess with stick controls and such, not as much with buttons. Their shields up could keep the buffeting down, they neutralize each other (even though the Death Star shields are much stronger, larger, etc they still meet and neutralize each other. “Double front means that there are 2 shield layers, both at the front, like in X-wing Alliance, 200% front, 0% back. However, both front and rear shields could be placed up to 200%, but shields “double front” will still immediately recharge any losses.

So basically, small shielded craft, who decided to travel slowly and has the plans for the station, like shield positions, where they are weakest, whether they are particle or ray shields and a person who knew Tarkin, were able to exploit a design and Tarkin‘s arrogance.

It seems as the Rebel craft then met resistance from the Imperial Star Destroyers orbiting the station, which launched some of their TIE squadrons as well as tried to shoot them down using their cannons. The 8 large guns on each side of the ships fire blue shots that are very accurate. The shots also are easily destroyed by X-wing lasers, even though the ISD’s shields protect the rest of the ship. Why aren’t the guns protected? Maybe the shields would disrupt the fire of the weapons, but that can’t be true considering the Droideka’s shield being up while the turret fires, but the guns poke outside of the shield. Again, the Rebels caught them by surprise. Another weird thing is that the blue shots can be shot by the X-wing fire. Are those really turbo lasers of ion cannons, of can the 8 side guns fire proton torpedoes as well.

After dealing with the TIEs patrolling the surrounding area close to them, the Rebel craft quickly went to the surface of the station (or close enough) before more fighters were engaging. the alliance forces (likely other TIEs who followed the Alliance down from orbit, or regular patrols nearby) The Alliance Pilots commented that “there’s a lot of guns on the surface”, Was the density expected to be low, or are they still experiencing the “shock and awe” of the Death Star’s size (a 160 km diameter artificial moon with a gun that can destroy a planet, not to mention the other things on it can give you that effect) Rebels flew close to the trench, going north while taking down the guns that provided a major threat and shooting any TIEs in the area.

There is a problem, which tactic would work better. They could last longer dodging fighters and defensive fire in the superstructure than they would cruising in the open, but they would have to work about hitting the surface of the Death Star in the canyons and so on, and in some case the threat could be higher as you’re closer to the turbolaser fire and TIEs pursuing you and/or crashing into you (however, at Nocto when the Vengeance was destroyed the Alliance did not have much of a problem weaving through the Executor-class Commandship Vengeance‘s trenches.) In the open, it would be easier and the turbolasers can’t really hit them (remember, Porkins was shot down when he was close to the surface of the Death Star, not decently above the surface)

At Yavin, the X-wings zeroed their lasers at ½ of a kilometer, allowing the Rebels to easily take down stationary ground targets. “Zeroed” is where the 4 X-wing lasers converged. At dog fighting, the “Zeroing” is only 250 meters, where the lasers are more powerful, especially in atmosphere, the enemy gets much closer, and the targets move.

Tarkin didn’t take the Alliance attack seriously (well Tarkin did but Motti convinced Tarkin not to launch fighters, as that would show weakness), but Vader launched his personal squadron, Black Squadron and flew in battle himself. They weren’t even expecting a Rebel Attack, just a massive defense of Yavin IV. That defense would’ve included Alliance capital ships and wings of starfighters.

Since the Rebel X-wings focused on the equatorial trench, Ion Cannons were also used, as most of the Death Star’s Ion Cannons were on the trench. The X-wings initially focused on the equator, forcing the resistance from gunners to focus there. The X-wings headed toward the “bulge of the station” The Trench was near the DS’s North Pole, so Y-wings “curved down and northward” over its’ surface. The Y-wings had the advantage for at least one run attempt.

Deflection Towers provide shielding for the Death Star, and likely coordinate gun accuracy. The Alliance fighters shot “at anything that looked like a decent target” And huge fires (still relatively small compared to the station, not even visible from some distance. The X-wings likely surprised the Imperials and attacked vulnerable targets not being shielded due to their purpose (e.g. the shields had to be weaker for comm. Towers as they couldn’t transmit through full shields decently?) Did the deflection towers coordinate fire for part of the northern hemisphere also, close to the trench and exhaust port? Did the destruction of a few towers allow Rebel fighters a huge advantage in combat, with not being shot or crashing against shielding? Were there also shields hugging the Death Star’s hull where were weakened or destroyed? Whatever it was, 10 of those towers had to be destroyed for the Rebels’ to achieve their objective(s).

Lightning arcs formed when power terminals exploded. Subsidiary explosions seem to form, like the DS II chain reaction formed after the Executor’s crash. This might’ve made the damage worse.

An X-wing can survive a fireball of a few thousand degrees Fahrenheit, at least quickly, but it can get some carbonized marks on it. X-wings have S-foils, which open into attack position when fully opened, allowing easier strafing and dog fighting. They, however can be destroyed easily by turbolasers in one shot, and the beam keeps on going after destroying the fighter (if the guns can hit them due to slow fire rate and turn speed.

At least 1 X-wing (likely several more craft) was shot down by turbolasers, but it was being jammed, flew at a low altitude and was flying straight. Had it moved, it would’ve been safe.

A few out of 50 fighters (remember 4 squadrons according to novelization and 2 A-wing prototypes) were destroyed by turbolasers. Slow recharge time, slow turning time, targeting computer program that doesn't allow you to shoot at the station, etc makes the chances of hitting the fighters low but the sheer numbers increases the chances.

X-wings did most of attacks, flying in attacks and attacking Death Star surface the most, destroying Deflector Towers and more, while Y-wings were bombers and flew in higher altitude, but probably also attacked the surface. It’s likely they engaged TIEs, also

The outer shell of the Death Star was made of the same material as ISD domes, meaning it is easier to hurt the surface, than damage further in.

A few kilometers above the Death Star’s surface is where you can notice some curvature on the DS, showing it isn’t as big as it seems, only 160 km

Alliance fighter elements (formations) were in 3s and in a arrow shape. They did this because this would be the best amount and formations for a trench run, 4 or more ships in a fighter element could have the ships crash into each other and the loss of one ship could hurt the remaining ships, possibly destroying them also. Less would allow the TIEs and guns to easily stop an attack run.

It took a few minutes to launch Imperial TIE fighters, quickly and more efficient than the Alliance scramble time, However, the Imperial fighters were only defending, not attacking and they didn’t have secondary weapons loaded, unlike the Alliance, nor did they have to fuel up for a long trip. Those TIEs were personally launched by Darth Vader, maybe he had to overrule Tarkin in rank to be able to launch his personal squadron, Black Squadron (and a few other squadrons).

Some TIE fighters protected the entrance to the Death Star trench from Rebel Fighters, they had to all be destroyed so the TIEs would not “bite them in the ass” when they commenced the Trench Run. Throughout the battle, Keyan Farlander and other Rebel forces were fighting off and clearing out some of the TIE Fighters.

After the TIEs mentioned above were destroyed, Darth Vader realized that several Rebel fighters had broken off from the main group (Gold Squadron in their 3 Y-wings and their supporting craft), he picked two of his wingmen for his attack on the Rebels with his TIE Advanced.

Tarkin did have TIEs on standby, but they did not launch, Vader ordered it. These TIEs, from Black Squadron defended “the entrance of the trench” . Anyway, defending this portion of the Death Star was important to keep Rebels from accessing the Exhaust ports. General Bast did inform Vader to move the TIEs there of the Exhaust Port threat after Tarkin refused to ‘hear it’. Did Tarkin change his mind and launch some more TIEs?, but not all of them? Did a ISD captain find out about this, from Bast or Vader?

It is possible that the potential casualties of the expense of launching fighters was greater than the potential damage to the station itself, as only the surface could be damaged, and at that only “marred“. An example of this is during the Tantive IV boarding, when a turbolaser gunner was ordered not to shoot the escape pod, as it has no life signs aboard. It seems that the Imperials (at least in the Outer Rim, during combat or in hostile areas) had deliberate and restrictive policies governing the use of firepower. They weigh the cost and benefit of a turbolaser shot; they probably weigh the costs of a fighter deployment versus relying on fixed defenses. So basically, if you didn't know about the exhaust shaft weakness, they would attack the superlaser, not the port which they didn’t notice until the death of Gold Squadron.

There’s also the Death Star as fulfilling a central portion of Grand Moff Tarkin’s “Doctrine of Fear” so it is also a political purpose to this existenance, rather than it mainly being a military one. The Imperial Fleet could already overwhelm even planetary shields (the One at Hoth was a new kind developed at Ralltiir, and it could only keep a CLEAN bombardment from occurring.) The superlaser was proven operational publicly at Alderaan (it destroyed Despayre as its‘ first test to make sure everything worked), and intended to annihilate Rebel Worlds, intimidating people into submission and scaring them (think of “Shock and Awe“ in Iraq‘nam). The station could easily overwhelm Yavin IV with its assigned conventional forces (TIEs, stormtroopers, Imperator-class Star Destroyers in the hangars), and capture (or destroy) the material, personnel, and possibly gain intelligence that could help with “eradicating the Rebellion“. The decision was made to go with the superlaser because: 1. Tarkin thought destroying Yavin IV would end the Rebellion there and then (it wouldn’t, as the Rebellion was much larger and blowing up Alderaan pissed off many people immediately, but destroying the battle station let more people revolt) and 2. It’s the doctrine of fear, not caring to launch TIEs at all, just destroy it all, using conventional forces would detract fro that.

Not deploying TIEs would A. show the Rebels attacking that they “had no hope” and that “resistance is futile!!” so why bother, they’re ignoring you (other than possible turbo lasers firing at them) The Tarkin doctrine would be weakened if TIEs were launched, possibly showing a weakness or being paranoid. Both of these could be exploited by Rebels or Imperials (internal politics??) by telling Imperial Fleet admirals not to get any grand ideas about their importance in the Imperial hierarchy.

Tarkin was thinking of launching TIEs in force and evacuating some forcers, but Admiral Motti convinced Tarkin that launching fighters would be a show of weakness, so when Bast warned Tarkin, that is why he said that the Rebels’ chances were overestimated. However, Bast wanted to order an evacuation or call off the attack, maybe that was too extreme rather than simply launching fighters and Tarkin would still object. A limited evacuation would be of the off-duty personnel, people in the infirmary, non-combatants who were in the Imperial Military (technicians, engineers, mechanics, chefs) other Imperial Officers and some of High Command (the Empire’s “boldest Admirals” died during the Battle of Yavin.) Also, evacuating some ships (especially Lambda shuttles, but likely larger ships would’ve been used) could leave them vulnerable to any Alliance fighters nearby.

When General Bast warned Tarkin of the weakness, Tarkin dismissed his warning as being paranoid, and over-estimating the Alliance’s chances. This was because: 50 Rebel Starfighters vs. One artificial moon with millions of TIEs and defensive guns that can destroy enemy. Add to that the armored hull below the thin surface and thick shields and they weren’t a problem. However, Motti convinced him of this, and the political advantage of doing this with an “invincible” Death Star according to the ANH novelization. Note that General Bast did not say "I have analyzed the rebel attack plan..." he said "We", he was the poor guy who was chosen, pulled sticks of voted to deliver the bad news arrived at by an analysis team. This seems to tell us something about Imperial strategies and tacticians, they could analyze an attack pattern in 15 minutes or so and find the threat, while it took all night for the Rebels to confirm the weakness (well, it was the Rebels’ last hope, so that likely was just checking and checking over and over again, and General Dodonna was the main person doing the “all-nighter”, eh must’ve had a nice cup of coffee…or an equivalent energy booster) and the Imperials probably could note the Rebels’ attacks and tactics and just looked at where the Rebels were going, and noticed the hole. Did they check all possible holes in the Reactor, weak spots in the super laser, etc and added in the information on where the Rebels were?

Was Tarkin Incompetant and/or Arrogant? Well, he didn’t launch all his TIEs (though the Imperial Fleet over Hoth didn’t either) The Turbolaser defenses did fail (though they weren’t designed to deal with fighters, they were anti-capital ship cannons. The Millennium Falcon did sneak in (remember, the Imperials didn‘t notice and/or respond until the station‘s surface was attacked by the Alliance fighters. The Rebels were able to attack the exhaust port two times, though. Was he competent? It is likely, as the Death Star was completed recently, a matter or days or weeks and all the systems were tested. Eh, how would you test it without getting a lot of attention? Despayre was destroyed by the Death Star as a test.

Another thing, Vader was a good Jedi-killer (see Order 66 at the Jedi Temple and the other things) So that could be why he didn’t launch more fighters. Tarkin had a working relationship with Vader, they knew each other and worked together for a long time, even before the Clone Wars when Tarkin was a commander and Vader-then Anakin Skywalker saw each other. Remember he was a Republic commander of the Outland Security Force policing the Outer Rim, and was a Clone Wars veteran. He would have a non-wielder’s knowledge of Force applications in war. Even if he never worked directly with a Jedi, he would’ve heard the various veterans’ stories (a relative (cousin) of him, Gideon Tarkin commanded the Republic Fleets and local forces on Eriadu, he would hear from him), seen the propaganda of the Jedi and Anakin Skywalker, and other things. This, combined with that Vader is the Emperor’s right-hand man, Vader is likely to be a good Sith.

TIE fighters took down at least one X-wing in open combat over the Death Star, and they could openly shoot the Death Star’s surface. The DS surface’s shields easily absorbed the laser fire, but TIE fighters only have 2 lasers, X-wings have 4. Maybe the only reason the X-wings could penetrate the shields were that 4 is more than 2. Also, many of the Death Star deflection towers were destroyed, maybe the shields are still strong enough to withstand TIE fighter blasts, but this could be a section of the station with still-functioning towers.

It seems that the TIEs did good over the Death Star. An advantage the TIEs had was intensive, and good teamwork, while the Rebels are more individualistic and not so teamwork-oriented (however, at Endor this ended up being a bad thing after the DSII blew up). Could deploying more TIEs exploit this possible weakness, or turn it into a strength? Another one seems to be numbers, as it seems that 40+ TIE Fighters (a wing?) was launched by Vader, but it seems that in one dogfight the TIEs were able to do good against the Rebels, even though those TIEs had fewer numbers in that dogfight (or portion of the dogfight) this was Vader’s elite Black Squadron, so that could be it also.

Was deploying TIE craft more expensive or more dangerous vs. relying on fixed weapons? Deploying TIEs could result in the death of the Imperial Pilots, and Tarkin isn’t supportive of wasting good men on suicidal missions, unlike Vader who allowed 4 TIEs to be destroyed (based on the novelization only 2 pilots were killed and after those losses the other TIEs retreated), their pilots killed when the Falcon escaped from the Death Star earlier. TIE pilot casualties could be higher than the losses sustained by the Death Star surface crews from Rebel Attacks. Rebel star fighters often have the shielding (among other) advantage(s) over TIEs, so the losses could be high for the Imperials but sheer numbers would come out winning.

In open space dogfighting, TIEs could be at a disadvantage, without station guns and jamming to back them up, as the Imperial Ground turret crews were ordered to stop shooting to prevent friendly fire and let the TIEs get them. However, other sources have TIEs and turbo laser turrets shooting at the same time, but this could simply be over a certain portion of the Death Star, Overwhelming numbers might only mean they get in each other's way (and shoot each other, in some battles Friendly Fire sometimes takes out a decent amount of TIEs out). The Rebel ships are fast enough that some rebel craft could “run the gauntlet” and still make it to the cover of the stations superstructures.

Hmmm, more TIE craft launched would be more realistic and fits with the “common sense” shit people say is needed, and all that. Eh, anyway, the Rebels’ chances were low, and Tarkin was winning, with the Rebel fighters attempting the trench runs being destroyed, the Rebel base almost in the Superlaser’s range, and the threat being possibly overestimated, especially with Vader in command of his personal elite squadron (and another wing of TIEs, an Imperial Wing) who is an Elite fighter.

Turbolasers and other energy weapons firing in very large amounts and high amount of shots per minute (like at the Battle of Coruscant) can accidentally jam sensors due to their amount of energy coming out in different frequency.

The Death Star Turbolaser, Laser and Ion Cannon crews were replaced every 5-10 minutes due to fatigue, possibly showing why Imperial warships have such a large crew for some ships (e.g. 37,085 for 1.6 km or 1 mile-long Imperator-class Star Destroyer)

Near the end close to one of the northern trenches, Vader attacks some Rebels with his 2 wingmen, 1 TIE Advanced, 2 TIE fighters (with shields) versus 3 Y-wings and 1 X-wing. They damage Vader’s TIE and drive him off. As these are Vader’s personal squadron, these TIE fighters would have shields, but likely no weapons. It seemed that all 3 TIEs in the element were able to fuse their shields together, forming 1 stronger field. They aren’t on (likely have been comply exhausted) or can’t take fire from a highly-modified (outright illegal in Core Worlds) YT-1300 Corellian Freighter, the Millennium Falcon (guns, shields, etc. Solo and Chewbacca “pimped my ride”, well their ride.)

DS 1 trench run is 50 km and they started 2/3 of the way to the bottom end of the trench and moved up the trench to the pole, based on the SWTC. Rogue Squadrons II and III, however have the Rebels start almost at the beginning of the trench, not 2/3 of the way to the south end of the trench. Hmmm….interesting.

The Trench run is the name of the most critical portion of the Battle of Yavin, which will allow proton torpedoes to reach the exhaust port, leading to the main reactor/core. Y-wings were bombers and would do the attack run first, they probably had more Proton Torpedoes, better equipment, better shields and armor, or a combination of the 2 or 3.

They used the trench for the Attack run because they needed to be under cover, if they flew above the trench in a straight line, they would be easily shot down. They needed to stay still for some time to get a lock, so they were safer in the Trench, except for TIEs. While that happened, more Rebel Fighters flew above distracting the other TIEs from the “real threat in the trench” and relaying information like TIEs, Guns, time remaining, communications maybe? and so on. They also defended and covered the trench Rebels also.

The Imperials had some sort of device that limits the movement of fighters, so it made this run harder to do. Also, there are jamming devices on the Death Star that affect you a lot due to being close to the surface of the station in the trench and being surrounded by it on 3 sides.

According to the plan, the Trench Run was to be done by the Y-Wing bombers of Gold Squadron and hit its thermal exhaust port with proton torpedoes, supported by the X-Wings of Red Squadron. A second run would be Blue Squadron supported by Green Squadron, if Gold and Red Squadrons ran out of torpedoes) or were destroyed). Dodonna was confident enough that before the second squadron ran out or torpedoed/was destroyed, that torpedoes would hit the exhaust port.

However, the Y-Wings were soon wiped by Vader in his TIE advanced and his 2 TIE fighter wingmen and the other 2 squadrons were likely busy elsewhere so the Trench Run was taken over by the X-Wings. The ships' astromech droids redirected more power to the engines and the ships reached “remarkable” speed.

Another version of this battle has the Red and Gold squadrons both fly in the trench, which is seen there to be much wider up to the point that X-wings can turn around in the trench. The Imperials send TIEs from the front and back shortly after the Rebels enter the trench and they fly through sharp bends in the trench, and the Imperial TIEs and turbolasers take a heavy toll on those attacking craft, only leaving Luke to hit the exhaust port at the end that has many turbo lasers surrounding it.

We don’t see any aurora near the North pole for the Trench run, nor do we see the Yavin gas giant again. Wouldn’t the northern magnetic pole be near the physical North Pole?

The Trench Exhaust Port was only ray-shielded, particle shielding would eliminate its’ usefulness. It’s an emergency outlet in case of reactor meltdown.

Turbolasers can’t hit Y-wings in a small trench, they almost hit several times, though and the shock from the explosions jolted the Y-wings, like flak guns. The turbolasers stopped, allowing TIEs to attack every time. Precaution to avoid hitting TIEs, but their aim wasn’t good, so they probably would’ve hit the TIEs by mistake, if they hit anything. This was used as an indicator by the Rebels when Imperial TIEs were pursuing them.

2 TIE fighters and one TIE Advanced can’t fit in the trench walls without having to change their formation so one TIE was closer to Vader’s ship. Maybe that was simple precaution, the trench walls were just a grey blur at the speed they were traveling at.

It seemed that the Alliance attack force actually outnumbered the TIEs launched, but they were at the Equator drawing away enemy fire and were constantly being destroyed in the trench.

Vader expected more Y-wings to be used, the other ones probably couldn’t do it. Vader, using the force is also a good TIE pilot, but that could simply be due to the fact that he has a TIE advanced and that the Alliance fighters were going in straight lines.

seems to be a cut-off....

It is ironic, that Garven Dreis (Red Leader) was killed by Vader, who is Anakin Skywalker, whom he flew with in the Clone Wars in the Battle of Virajunsi in which both were good friends.

Dodonna’s plan had backups, all fighters had proton torpedoes, at least 2, showing the desperation of the Rebels. The torpedoes would fire in twos into the exhaust port. One Alliance squadron covered another during the trench run.

The ammunition supplies at Yavin IV were so low at the time which often happens with resistance movements and that many of them were recently stolen, only Squadron Leaders and a few of the best pilots carried more than a single pair of proton torpedoes on their fighters.

Turbolasers have shields, as shown when they fire. During the last trench run, attempted by Luke Skywalker, a white silhouette was shown around a turbolaser turret for a fraction of a second. Was this because of the bolt interacting with the shields? Maybe.

The last attack run had 3 X-wings and a Y-wing attack. The fate of the Y-wing is unknown. Was this Keyan Farlander’s Y-wing?

The laser bolt that fried R2-D2 damaged the top of his dome and set it on fire. Were there air-tight pockets in the Astromech and other droids, that allowed the fire to form? There was damage where the R2 unit was inside the X-wing. Maybe the bolt overloaded some circuits all over the droid. The loss of an R2 unit would make it harder to make the jump into hyperspace, navigate, pilot the ship and target, making Luke’s accomplishment more, he did it in a damaged X-wing, with a knocked-out droid, without a targeting computer and as a rookie.

The Imperials were so busy with the Alliance fighters that they didn’t notice the Falcon coming. The Falcon is a smuggler warship, maybe it jammed the Imperials of used special maneuvers and tactics. Also, the Falcon flew in from the direction of Yavin’s Sun, so that could blind the pilots (hard to do, given the glare shields) However, the most of the TIEs launched were near the equator, and only a few squadrons were near the poles. The other pilot lost concentration and was likely afraid and miscalculated his position and crashed into Vader’s TIE. Vader’s TIE can withstand a hit like that, but one of the tips of the pylons was scratched.

If Vader and his wingmen had fired indiscriminately down the trench they could’ve easily shot down the Rebel fighters, but they wanted a “surgical strike”, not to just “blast away from above”.

When Luke fired the shot, he did not remember firing the actual shot, the force took over, aided by Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Was the force necessary to hit the exhaust port? Some would say that due to the tight turn (90* turn within a matter of meters), small target area (2 meters in diameter), and jamming by the Death Star, the Force was necessary to exploit the design flaw. However, Luke was not trained in the Force but had latent force potential, and he has used it on accident before, like when he found a tool his Aunt Beru lost (Owen yelled at him for it, though). He was, however an experienced bush pilot probably not as dependent on targeting computers as the rest of the Rebel Squadrons. If Han made the shot, people would call it luck, not the Force, and he would call it skill (to show off as the bad-ass he is 0_o).

The Rebels had had a small, make it decent chance and considering that they would have several attempts to do it, Dodonna was smug that success would happen. Not using the force/being strong with it would reduce the likelihood of success, but not eliminate it. Remember, the flaw could be exploited without the Force. Luke was doing extremely well, considering the simulation records done before the battle.

Vader’s TIE has shields and a hyperdrive. This shows his high rank in the Imperial starfighter corps and his importance to the Empire.

The exhaust port was above the main source, and it leads right to Main Reactor, ray-shielded. Particle shielding would interfere with the function

Proton Torpedoes can do a almost 90* turn .The Proton Torpedoes would overwhelm the Death Star reactor easily. Is the core especially vulnerable, or is it something else? The Proton Torpedoes hit reactor at last possible moment, before the ignition and use of the Death Star’s superlaser, so maybe the energy being stored up and being released also affected the explosion, with there being more energy released possibly (or in a shorter time)

There was a Near-instantaneous explosion throughout Death Star but there were some small flashes before that, it said that the energy released was that of a miniature sun. It is so bright that “for a few seconds eternal light became day”. The Death Star has the Superlaser first become enveloped by explosions; it was firing but blew up. The Exhaust port where the torpedoes hit also had the explosion follow that route. The explosion spread followed by the rest of the station. Most of debris would form a field. Some of it rained on Yavin and its’ moons, while other pieces scattered through the Gas Giant Yavin’s orbit.

Unknown fate of ISDs defending DS. Were they destroyed in the explosion? If not, Why did they retreat? They could’ve continued and attacked Yavin, but were they scared away (by the fighters that destroyed their Death Star), overwhelmed by the Alliance Fleet over Yavin IV or knew they would’ve been overwhelmed? Was the loss of command and control like what happened at Endor, and the Imperial Fleet retreated?

Several High-ranking Personnel survived. TIE fighters also could’ve survived. Then Colonel Veers and General Bast survived. Veers was shot down by an X-wing and crashed on Yavin IV, to be freed by the Imperial Invasion Force that arrived some time later (months?).

It seems as the 501st legion, or “Vader’s Fist” lost half of its forces and an additional 1/3 of the survivors were caught in the explosion but they were evacuating the Death Star. The commanding officer might’ve been told of the weakness and decided that the risk was too great and to save his troops. As it was “Vader’s Fist” Maybe Vader does care about his troops, as long as they don’t fail him.

Was the celebration after the battle also a funeral for all who died for the Rebel Alliance’s cause at Yavin and the other battles? The troops were standing at attention, maybe it was simple formality. This is a resistance group, so that is weird. However, the Rebels at Yavin (and many other Rebels in other places) were supported by Alderaan and were given uniforms, etc. These Rebels could mainly be Alderaanians, and have some formality (but Alderaan had no military tradition for at least 19 years, WTF) Maybe it was to remember that Alderaan was recently destroyed (not more than 24 hours ago) They applauded and “let go” after the medals were given out, so maybe it wasn’t. The Rebels were divided into various classes, pilots, soldiers, mechanics, etc. The High-ranking Rebels were in the back by the window, with the more important people like Princess Leia Organa, General Jan Dodonna and Commander Vanden Willard in front of other Rebels, likely Alliance officers or the “Senators and Generals” of the world who were at the base during the Death Star attack. Was this ceremony transmitted over the Holonet, as well as pictures of the Death Star’s destruction to get more people to join the Alliance. However, the footage of Alderaan’s destruction would do that easier.

Several TIEs crashed on Yavin IV. The battle took place far from Yavin IV, but 2 TIEs crashed there. Maybe that was the best place to crash. There were 3 moons off Yavin that can support life, but one was a desert, one was a ice planet, and the last one was the jungle. Maybe the jungle was the best for survival.

The Empire’s boldest, most aggressive admirals died at Yavin when the Death Star exploded. The Imperials also lost many of the top 5% who graduated from the Imperial Academies and thorought the Galaxy. Grand Moff Tarkin personally selected many of the Imperial Navy troops stationed there. Another thing is that many innocent civilians, contractors, etc died when the DS was destroyed.

The remaining Red Squadron pilots formed Rogue Squadron after Yavin.

Post-Battle:
After the Battle, the Imperials did return, in some cases in less than a few hours to attack. Some escape pods and crashed shuttles landed at Yavin IV and united, to attack the Great Temple from the ground, but that attack failed. The Imperial blockade, composed of at least a few ISDs was described as “swift” and caught some Rebels escaping and stranded others. The 501st legion met up with part of the blockade, and disabled a Calamari Cruiser in orbit and then attacking the ground base (likely with the other forces who escaped the DS). The Imperials likely won, but based on other sources the Rebels won and held off, driving the Imperials away, given the Alliance fleet still in-system.

The Rebels gained credibility after the battle. The Alliance likely began to evacuate after the battle. The Empire used a station to commit hit-and-run attacks, but it was destroyed soon. However, it took 6 months for the Empire to blockade the moon in force and attempt to attack the base, but by then, Mon Mothma and Admiral Ackbar diverted some Imperials by attacking the Vallusk Cluster. The Yavin IV Rebels then escaped and passed the blockade by heading for Yavin’s Sun and passing when there were no solar flares. The Executor was there, but Admiral Griff’s 3 ISDs crashed into the Executor and forced the Executor to stay for some time due to catastrophic shield strength reduction, delaying the operation until the rebels escaped. (you don’t want to engage a Rebel fleet (especially a large one with Calamari Cruisers desperate to escape) with shields at a catastrophic strength reduction, do you?). The Alliance had a skeleton force remaining, now and those forces held off against the Empire effectively, until being driven back to the Great Temple. After ground forces took out the last air defenses, and with Imperials entering the Great Temple’s hangar bay the Empire sent in a wing of TIE bombers, and during one of the bombing runs Dodonna activated the concussion charges, destroying the wing of TIEs and the Imperials invading the base. (based on other sources, Dodonna did escape with the Allaince when Skywalker, Antilles and Sarkli saved him). Whatever happens Dodonna is eventually captured by the Empire and believed to be dead

Imperial Losses:

One Death Star
Over a million people died, likely more. Most of crew dead
Millions of TIE fighters on DS destroyed
AT-ATs, AT-STs and other imperial army vehicles
Large investment in manpower and resources for construction
One moons’ worth of resources (some were salvaged, though)
ISDs defending DS?

Alliance losses
8 X-wings
4 Y-wings

Imperial Objectives failed
Death Star destroyed
Yavin IV and its’ Alliance base saved

Alliance Objectives succeeded
Death Star destroyed
Yavin IV saved

Sources:
Episode IV, A New Hope Movie
Sega Star Wars Arcade Trilogy
The Farlander Papers (X-wing game)
X-wing: Rogue Squadron
X-wing: The Krytos Trap
A New Hope novelization
A New Hope radio dramatization
Battlefront
Battlefront II
Rogue Squadron
Rogue Squadron II
Rogue Squadron III
Classic Star Wars: Escape to Hoth
Star Wars Galaxies
Galactic Empire Databank
Star Wars Wikicities
Empire At War
Rebel Dawn
Jedi Dawn
Kyle Katarn’s Tale
The New Essential Chronology
Dark Forces: Soldier for the Empire.
Various sources not remembered, sorry

Galactic Empire Databank
Star Wars Wikicities

If these are fansites, they're not eligable as sources.

VT-16 wrote:If these are fansites, they're not eligable as sources.

Thanks. The Star Wars wikicities is Wookieepedia and Galactic Empire databank reflects wookieepedia.

What's the evidence that the Rebels had all these fighters lying around (including all those V-wings and ARCs) and were just afraid to commit them? Dodonna made no indication tha he was sending a miniscule portion of his forces to meet the Death Star. Towards the end of the battle, with Yavin about to be destroyed, it makes no sense for him to be holding back.

Where were all these Rebel captial ships hiding? Why did they stay in-system but refuse to launch fighters or engage the DS in any other way? They could at least have served as distractions, or ran off in order to perpetuate the Alliance.

It is strongly recommended that you tie your sources to your data more closely. A list of references is not a substitute for clearly identifying where you obtained your information (what source indicates the presence of any one of the Star Destroyers, for example?). The lack of adequate documentation handicaps the article considerably.

I assume the ARC-170s and V-wings are from SW: Galaxies.

Anguirus wrote:What's the evidence that the Rebels had all these fighters lying around (including all those V-wings and ARCs) and were just afraid to commit them?

Rogue Squadron II's mission 'Revenge on Yavin' shows some of the Alliance fighter complements (A-wings,T-47s included)
Battlefront II shows a CRS in-system, that's 3 squadrons there
X-wing mentions and shows the Independence in-system
Empire At War shows a massive Alliance Fleet orbiting Yavin
Classic Star Wars: Escape to Hoth shows the massive Alliance forces escaping Yavin including the warships and such.
ANH Novelization mentions a 'massive defense' expected of Yavin by the Imperial Strategists and they were surprised at the small force sent to attack them.

Dodonna made no indication tha he was sending a miniscule portion of his forces to meet the Death Star.

He said the Empire doesn't consider a small force, especially starfighters to be a threat.

Towards the end of the battle, with Yavin about to be destroyed, it makes no sense for him to be holding back.

The Alliance Capital ships were likely in other areas of the system.

Where were all these Rebel captial ships hiding?

rest of the system, but Empire A War shows them engaging some of the Imperial Fleet.

Why did they stay in-system but refuse to launch fighters or engage the DS in any other way?

They would be destroyed due to massive numbers and turbolasers if they all did that. Tarkin would launch all his TIEs if they did that, when only around 30-50 ships attacked he thought it was a nuisance and The Novelization if ANH mentions the Imperials expected a 'massive defense' of Yavin.

And they would likely stay in-system to see what happened at least.

They could at least have served as distractions, or ran off in order to perpetuate the Alliance.

Some did, based on Empire At War distracting some of the Imperial Fleet and who knows what the 'Senators and Generals' who were at Yavin Base were at.

Publius wrote:It is strongly recommended that you tie your sources to your data more closely. A list of references is not a substitute for clearly identifying where you obtained your information (what source indicates the presence of any one of the Star Destroyers, for example?). The lack of adequate documentation handicaps the article considerably.

Okay, do the little parentheses thing, okay.

The Star Destroyers orbiting the Death Star comes from The Star Wars Sega Arcade Trilogy and Empire At War.

We know there were ships with the DS at Alderaan (the camera showing an alternate angle of Alderaan), so it's not surprising to see some escorting it to Yavin.

So you're going to try to rationalise ALL the stupid games with all their different versions of the battle with the actual movie? Crazy. What's your actual objective? To uncover the 'truth' of the battle of Yavin, or some fannish total inclusionist nonsense?

Your 'objectives' seem a bit confused - if defending the exhaust port is an 'objective', it's a pretty major one since it's failure destroys the station and loses the whole battle.

I'd love to know where you got the 'good' chance of success and Dodonna's 'smugness' from.

Okay, VT-16. Thank you

Stark wrote:So you're going to try to rationalise ALL the stupid games with all their different versions of the battle with the actual movie? Crazy. What's your actual objective? To uncover the 'truth' of the battle of Yavin,

Information, truth, etc. Yes It could be the reason why publicus or saxton wrote/analyzed all those sources, etc.

or some fannish total inclusionist nonsense?

Well, I am a Warsie see my name

Your 'objectives' seem a bit confused - if defending the exhaust port is an 'objective', it's a pretty major one since it's failure destroys the station and loses the whole battle.

Okay. Thank you for mentioning this

I'd love to know where you got the 'good' chance of success and Dodonna's 'smugness' from.

The original ANH Novelization mentions that he did have a 'smug' face when wdge asked about the second run commended by Alliance Fighters

Dodonna said the Empire didn't consider small one man fighters a threat. Not "a small force of one man fighters"

There is no reason for him to keep reserves in this fight. As it stands, the Death Star came very close to destroying Yavin. Holding fighters in reserve for a second wave is not a prudent strategy when the DS was as close as it was. He simply didn't have the time for any attacks besides the one we saw in the movie.

Stark wrote:So you're going to try to rationalise ALL the stupid games with all their different versions of the battle with the actual movie? Crazy.

Indeed. You obviously put some work into this, and it looks nice, but I would highly recommend that you discard some of the more "questionable" sources if they go against the movies. It makes for a far more cohernt document.

As a few others have said, I really wouldn't try to work in every computer game. For instance, in X-wing the Alliance launches three distinct attacks on the DS...including in one case destroying an Imperial communications satellite that has no reason to be there whatsoever.

This is actually contradicted by the movie. Tarkin expected to destroy the Rebel base within thirty minutes of emerging from hyperspace.

He said the Empire doesn't consider a small force, especially starfighters to be a threat.

No, Tarkin doesn't think fighters can damage the DS at all. It actually makes no sense for him to launch any number of fighters to engage the Rebels if he thinks that the DS is not vulnerable to their attack. (And only Skywalker's presence proved him wrong.)

rest of the system, but Empire A War shows them engaging some of the Imperial Fleet.

This not only makes no sense strategically (for either side) but is directly contradicted by your earlier observation:

ANH Novelization mentions a 'massive defense' expected of Yavin by the Imperial Strategists and they were surprised at the small force sent to attack them.

Was there a force of capital ships or wasn't there?

Despite the fact that we know the Rebellion always maintained a small force of capital ships, in ANH and ESB they avoided stationing them at their primary base. No doubt they didn't want to put all their eggs in one basket. Hiding the leadership and the bulk of their supplies on some Outer Rim planet and moving them from place to place one step ahead of the Imperials makes more sense then risking their lives on those scarce capital ships that are required to actively launch missions against the enemy. The Rebels cannot afford to make a stand in one place with their fleet, they'd lose the whole war in hours without the DS even being necessary. Dodonna would be a fool if he didn't make sure any capital ships made themselves scarce...and this is backed up by their absence in novel and film.

Warsie wrote:

Anguirus wrote:What's the evidence that the Rebels had all these fighters lying around (including all those V-wings and ARCs) and were just afraid to commit them?

Rogue Squadron II's mission 'Revenge on Yavin' shows some of the Alliance fighter complements (A-wings,T-47s included)

Rogue Leader's Revenge on Yavin mission is a bonus mission, and I'd contest it's canon status since it is paired with the Alternate History Death Star mission.

Battlefront II shows a CRS in-system, that's 3 squadrons there
X-wing mentions and shows the Independence in-system

On the DS or Yavin?

Battlefront's Yavin maps involve aftermath scenarios not the actual battle, so one would assume that after the DS was destroyed that the base was reinforced

Empire At War shows a massive Alliance Fleet orbiting Yavin

Ever heard of balancing, since I assume this to be a campaign mission in question, the verdict is...

"Not Canon!"

rest of the system, but Empire A War shows them engaging some of the Imperial Fleet.

Said interpretation of the engagement has been judged as non-canon, EAW is employing 'balancing' in order to present a challenge to the player and is not a valid historical reenactment.

Some did, based on Empire At War distracting some of the Imperial Fleet and who knows what the 'Senators and Generals' who were at Yavin Base were at.

As a rule...

Never Rely On Games As Resources, Ever!

All games employ a measure of 'balancing' to make the scenarios they present challenging to the player, as a result 'reenactments' by games of events in movies are exaggerated and thusly don't properly compliment the presentation of the film.

Guys, you forgot about Rebel Assault, in which the Rebel fighters attack some big, oversized turbolaser turret on the Death Star before going for the exhaust port!

In all seriousness, you shouldn't put so much stock in the games. I wouldn't completely dismiss them as sources, but when they contradict the movie to such degrees, I think it's safe to say that the differences are non-canon.

Some could just be justified as depicting Rebel assets that don't show up at Yavin during the battle, like units undergoing missions in other systems at the time, etc. We see R-22 Spearheads and H-60 Tempests in Massassi Base in SW:CL, so we know they had other fighters present.

And technically, if we allow for some capital ship engagements with a couple of ships on the Rebel side, that could technically do for "small force". Let's not be minimalistic here. ;)

Warsie wrote:

Anguirus wrote:What's the evidence that the Rebels had all these fighters lying around (including all those V-wings and ARCs) and were just afraid to commit them?

Rogue Squadron II's mission 'Revenge on Yavin' shows some of the Alliance fighter complements (A-wings,T-47s included)

The A-Wings must be discarded from a serious analysis. Per New Essential Guide to Vehicles & Vessels, the first A-Wings weren't produced until just before the Battle of Endor. T-47's probably were on Yavin, since they were available to be modified on Hoth, but they're not space-capable, and were thus a non-factor at the main Battle of Yavin.

Battlefront II shows a CRS in-system, that's 3 squadrons there
X-wing mentions and shows the Independence in-system

These two can easily be rationalized by the ships evacuating to ensure the survival of at least some of the Rebellion, given that the Death Star was designed to fight capital ships.

Empire At War shows a massive Alliance Fleet orbiting Yavin

As stated, this is for game balance, not an accurate reflection of what occurred.

Classic Star Wars: Escape to Hoth shows the massive Alliance forces escaping Yavin including the warships and such.
ANH Novelization mentions a 'massive defense' expected of Yavin by the Imperial Strategists and they were surprised at the small force sent to attack them.

Again, the majority of the Rebel fleet most likely fled upon the arrival of DSI, to ensure that they could continue their activities even if the military leadership was eliminated.

The A-Wings must be discarded from a serious analysis.

Those are actually R-22 Spearheads. They were stationed at Yavin as per ITW:OT and SW:CL.

Setzer wrote:Dodonna said the Empire didn't consider small one man fighters a threat. Not "a small force of one man fighters"

The Novelization of ANH also has him saying a small attack would be more effective.

"Apparently they're convinced that their defensive weaponry can hold off any light attacks" -page 180 ANH original novelization

There is no reason for him to keep reserves in this fight.

If they sent everything to attack, Tarkin would scramble his TIEs. The small Alliance strike force only had to deal with a few TIE fighter patrols launched from ISDs and some other TIEs launched.

As it stands, the Death Star came very close to destroying Yavin. Holding fighters in reserve for a second wave is not a prudent strategy when the DS was as close as it was. He simply didn't have the time for any attacks besides the one we saw in the movie.

Um, I didn't say that the other fighters were held in reserve for a second attack, I said that they weren't going to be used.

[quote="Balrog']Indeed. You obviously put some work into this, and it looks nice, but I would highly recommend that you discard some of the more "questionable" sources if they go against the movies. It makes for a far more cohernt document.[/quote]

Okay, I'll see if there's any extremely unlikely sources.

[quote="Angirus]As a few others have said, I really wouldn't try to work in every computer game. For instance, in X-wing the Alliance launches three distinct attacks on the DS...including in one case destroying an Imperial communications satellite that has no reason to be there whatsoever.[/quote]

Okay, I didn't work in everything yes . But you say thast there were 3 distinct attacks on the DS? Did they mean trench runs, otherwise that would be weird.

This is actually contradicted by the movie. Tarkin expected to destroy the Rebel base within thirty minutes of emerging from hyperspace

Wasn't that when the DS chose to orbit at maximum velocity, that's when the countdown began?

No, Tarkin doesn't think fighters can damage the DS at all. It actually makes no sense for him to launch any number of fighters to engage the Rebels if he thinks that the DS is not vulnerable to their attack. (And only Skywalker's presence proved him wrong.)

right, but the ISD captains did launch some TIEs however.

This not only makes no sense strategically (for either side) but is directly contradicted by your earlier observation:

I thought you asked why didn't any of them do distractions? I meant that some ships did end up distracting the Imperials in some form or were simply unlucky.

Not all of the Alliance ships did that of course, just that some of the Rebel Fleet near Yavin ended up fighting an Imperial Fleet somehow.

Was there a force of capital ships or wasn't there?

In the Yavin System, yes. Not attacking the Death Star.

Despite the fact that we know the Rebellion always maintained a small force of capital ships, in ANH and ESB they avoided stationing them at their primary base.

Based on X-wing Alliance and X-wing there were a few Calamari Cruisers nearby in the system but not at the actual base.

No doubt they didn't want to put all their eggs in one basket.

They didn't do that yes. The Alliance had many capital ships at their disposal, a fraction of the Imperial Outer Rim Fleet yes, but still large,

Hiding the leadership and the bulk of their supplies on some Outer Rim planet and moving them from place to place one step ahead of the Imperials makes more sense then risking their lives on those scarce capital ships that are required to actively launch missions against the enemy.

How so? That wasn't the bulk of their supplies however; there were other bases and friendly worlds. Also, the Alliance Cap ships aren't required to attack the enemy, often they are simply Command Ships who send out fighter squadrons/small forces to attack and if they do attack they attack where it is easiest. And depending on the sector, the Alliance might not even have to worry about that (Airam Sector is an example)

The Rebels cannot afford to make a stand in one place with their fleet, they'd lose the whole war in hours without the DS even being necessary.

They did so at Mon Calamari when the Calamari drove the Imperials from their world; they managed to keep the Empire away there (partly because it was so remote). After Yavin, Alliance Fleets were able to engage Imperial Forces in 'conventional' ways (Marvel Star Wars).

And the Death Star was necessary to deal with worlds like Calamari and Dornea, Palpatine likely wanted a Death Star to scare those worlds because he was too lazy to send a decent fleet from the Core Worlds to pacify those worlds/Core Fleets busy keeping the Galaxy from fighting each other.

Dodonna would be a fool if he didn't make sure any capital ships made themselves scarce...and this is backed up by their absence in novel and film.

Not the entire Rebel Fleet was at Yavin; some ships were in-system.

FedRebel wrote:Rogue Leader's Revenge on Yavin mission is a bonus mission, and I'd contest it's canon status since it is paired with the Alternate History Death Star mission.

It's more of Alternate Reality: What would happen if the Empire did attack Yavin IV. It's simply a different history but it still tells you what the Alliance had available. It only has different attacks happen.

On the DS or Yavin?

Orbiting Yavin IV

Battlefront's Yavin maps involve aftermath scenarios not the actual battle, so one would assume that after the DS was destroyed that the base was reinforced

Battlefront II says that the Imperials attacked very quickly; the surviving 501st legion didn't even get any sleep between the DS destruction and the first fleet attack.

Ever heard of balancing, since I assume this to be a campaign mission in question, the verdict is...

"Not Canon!"

Not canon? Isn't the rank that unless it's directly contradicted by the movies it's okay?

Said interpretation of the engagement has been judged as non-canon, EAW is employing 'balancing' in order to present a challenge to the player and is not a valid historical reenactment.

That is true, it is a game but technically it's not shown in the movie so it is possible to happen but wasn't shown. If it's not contradicted by the movie it's allowed.

As a rule...

Never Rely On Games As Resources, Ever!

true, some things that happen in games do contradict the movies heavily I admit that (like some of X-wing Alliance's 'Battle of Endor' missions)

All games employ a measure of 'balancing' to make the scenarios they present challenging to the player, as a result 'reenactments' by games of events in movies are exaggerated and thusly don't properly compliment the presentation of the film.

When it directly contradicts, yes you are right.

Jim Raynor wrote: In all seriousness, you shouldn't put so much stock in the games. I wouldn't completely dismiss them as sources, but when they contradict the movie to such degrees, I think it's safe to say that the differences are non-canon.

Right, I don't place them ABOVE the movies. There are some non-canon things I should look over, thank you.

The Dark wrote:The A-Wings must be discarded from a serious analysis. Per New Essential Guide to Vehicles & Vessels, the first A-Wings weren't produced until just before the Battle of Endor.

As VT-16 said they're R-22 Spearheads, early A-wings. And A-wings weren't produced until before the Battle of Endor? WTF

The databank suggest they were made after Yavin, and other sources say that too. But they could be R-22 Spearheads technically
http://www.starwars.com/databank/starsh ... ter/?id=eu

T-47's probably were on Yavin, since they were available to be modified on Hoth, but they're not space-capable, and were thus a non-factor at the main Battle of Yavin.

I placed them under the 'Yavin Base' tab. Those who actually attacked the DS were under 'Alliance Strike Force' or something like that.

These two can easily be rationalized by the ships evacuating to ensure the survival of at least some of the Rebellion, given that the Death Star was designed to fight capital ships.

Yes, they were not directly fighting the death star but were somewhere in the system to at least observe.

As stated, this is for game balance, not an accurate reflection of what occurred.

Right, but other sources reflect it, including the ANH mention of a 'massive defense'

Again, the majority of the Rebel fleet most likely fled upon the arrival of DSI, to ensure that they could continue their activities even if the military leadership was eliminated.

I do not dispute that, I mean that they were in the system yes

The Novelization of ANH also has him saying a small attack would be more effective.

"Apparently they're convinced that their defensive weaponry can hold off any light attacks" -page 180 ANH original novelization

This quote does not say what you say it says. There is no evidence from the novel to my knowledge that Dodonna is holding back dozens or hundreds of fighters, especially since by SW standards that's still a "light attack."

If they sent everything to attack, Tarkin would scramble his TIEs. The small Alliance strike force only had to deal with a few TIE fighter patrols launched from ISDs and some other TIEs launched.

That's nonsense. You don't send your pilots out to die to deal with a total non-threat.

But you say thast there were 3 distinct attacks on the DS? Did they mean trench runs, otherwise that would be weird.

Not three trench runs. Keyan Farlander flies out in an X-wing to destroy an Imperial com satellite (guarded by fighters, corvettes, and a frigate), then he hypers out. He hypers back in (next mission) to destroy DS surface defenses (destroy X number of guns in X amount of time to win mission) then flies back to Yavin, transfers to Gold Squadron, and flies a Y-wing and survives the battle as Skywalker goes on the trench run (last mission).

Wasn't that when the DS chose to orbit at maximum velocity, that's when the countdown began?

As far as I can tell he gave that order very quickly upon showing up at the system.

right, but the ISD captains did launch some TIEs however.

This is contradicted by the film. The thirty Rebels engage a comparable (possibly even smaller) number of TIEs. If capital ships nearby were launching fighters the Rebels would have been quickly overwhelmd. Don't tell me that the Rebels had such massive forces in-system that they were able to tangle with some number of Destroyers and stop ALL of those hundreds of TIEs from reaching Luke's plucky little force.

I thought you asked why didn't any of them do distractions? I meant that some ships did end up distracting the Imperials in some form or were simply unlucky.

Not all of the Alliance ships did that of course, just that some of the Rebel Fleet near Yavin ended up fighting an Imperial Fleet somehow.

I don't have the ANH novel with me, but from what you said I thought Tarkin was surprised that the Rebels just sent a few fighters up to attack him. A battle fleet demonstrating against them from elsewhere in the system would be more in line with his expectations, shouldn't it?

In the Yavin System, yes. Not attacking the Death Star.

Why were they even sitting there then? If the DS brought an entourage of Star Destroyers along then they don't want to be there at all.

The Rebel force you describe could be picked-off with long-range fire by the Imperial force you describe. All those Destroyers can fry the Cruisers and ignore the Corvettes and Frigates. Not to mention the carnage that would result if they got anywhere near the DS. They need to be gone or they will get dead. They cannot stop those Destroyers from launching TIEs to kill Red and Gold Squadrons without exposing themselves to massive fire, probably from the DS itself.

Based on X-wing Alliance and X-wing there were a few Calamari Cruisers nearby in the system but not at the actual base.

In XWA there is no Yavin mission. In XW your flagship is nowhere near Yavin when you get reassigned there...apparently in that game's "canon" Dodonna did tell them to scram!

They didn't do that yes. The Alliance had many capital ships at their disposal, a fraction of the Imperial Outer Rim Fleet yes, but still large,

At the time of Yavin most indications are that the Alliance is VERY small. As far as I'm aware only a handful of computer games dispute this. And keep in mind that a few Star Cruisers is still not much of a strike force.

How so? That wasn't the bulk of their supplies however; there were other bases and friendly worlds. Also, the Alliance Cap ships aren't required to attack the enemy, often they are simply Command Ships who send out fighter squadrons/small forces to attack and if they do attack they attack where it is easiest. And depending on the sector, the Alliance might not even have to worry about that (Airam Sector is an example)

They could base fighters squadrons on any old planet they chose (and they did!). Capital ships are absolutely necessary to crack open any hard targets, and the Alliance didn't have enough of them to just use them as aircraft carriers all the time.

And maybe it wasn't the bulk of their supplies, but the X-wing novels suggest that Hoth at least was a MAJOR Rebel supply base, with the quartermaster stationed there and a some amount of illicit trade going on. That's why they tried so hard to protect the transports during the battle, they couldn't afford to lose any of that stuff.

Osama Bin Laden isn't traveling around with heavily armed Taliban strike groups; he's hiding in a cave somewhere. Hoth and Yavin (and possibly Sullust) were essentially fortified bolt-holes to hide supplies and for the leadership to stay for a couple of months or years and actually coordinate their forces instead of running around.

Recall: when the Rebel armada came together in RotJ the Imperials and the Sith quickly learned about it. They could have just landed on them with both feet and killed everybody right there. They only did not at the Emperor's command, because he liked his trap idea. But that's the reason why the Rebels do NOT usually gather forces at one place, and especially not at their primary base. The sheer speed of communications and of hyperspace means that you are probably dead if you do that.

They did so at Mon Calamari when the Calamari drove the Imperials from their world; they managed to keep the Empire away there (partly because it was so remote). After Yavin, Alliance Fleets were able to engage Imperial Forces in 'conventional' ways (Marvel Star Wars).

And the Death Star was necessary to deal with worlds like Calamari and Dornea, Palpatine likely wanted a Death Star to scare those worlds because he was too lazy to send a decent fleet from the Core Worlds to pacify those worlds/Core Fleets busy keeping the Galaxy from fighting each other.

Cashing with Imperial fleets is one thing, sure, but I bet anything they didn't stay for long. Alliance ships can certainly engage Imperials with hefty use of jamming and hit-and-run tactics.

I'm not sure myself why the Imperials didn't drop the heavy end of the hammer on Calamari, aside from, as you say, more of the Emperor's stupidity. If they had thousands of ships there, the Imperials might not be able to spare the forces to destroy them (busy repressing the rest of the galaxy don't'cha'know) but then you'd think the Mon Calamari could spare a hundred or so for Endor, the MOST IMPORTANT ENGAGEMENT OF THE WAR.

Yes, they were not directly fighting the death star but were somewhere in the system to at least observe.

Why? They could just drop a probe and run like rabbits instead. Star Destroyers easily have the acceleration to run them down, assuming there were actually that many at the party.

Right, but other sources reflect it, including the ANH mention of a 'massive defense'

The ANH mention of the massive defense that didn't happen?

My take is that the battle probably proceeded much as it did in the film. Both sides have good reasons not to bother attacking the others capital ships. Tarkin doesn't see the Rebel attack as any threat whatsoever. Vader doesn't have the authority and/or the will to call in a whole fleet to oust the Rebel strike force. If there are Star Destroyers along for the ride they are probably just berthed at the DS and watching the fireworks.

Now, the subsequent battle...that is, the TAKING of Yavin by Imperial forces...would have to be constructed from various EU accounts, and has the potential to be an extremely interesting project.[/quote]

At the time of Yavin most indications are that the Alliance is VERY small. As far as I'm aware only a handful of computer games dispute this. And keep in mind that a few Star Cruisers is still not much of a strike force.

Not that this changes much, but it's not just video games that show this, the SW newspaper stories had the Rebels with a huge fleet in the Yavin system (after the battle), and they utilized CIS capital ships as well (SW: Rebellion).

^ Thanks for the correction. I know that the Rebellion had some big cruisers even before Yavin (hell, Luke even says so in the movie) but in light of the portrayal of the Clone Wars, they are very small in galactic terms, and the earlier you go back the smaller they are.

IIRC the radio drama mentions that the Rebels have no heavy strike craft/bombers or capital ships available (or something to that effect), just the snubfighters, so if there were any capital ships they probably were sent off prior ot the Death Star's arrival. not that you'd want a substantial fleet presence hanging around the HIDDEN Rebel base. That would kind of negate the purpose of having it hidden.

If one needed to explain the presence/absence of fleets, one could say that the Imperial ships (if any) escorting the Death Star were redeployed by Tarkin in case anyone tried to escape Yavin (maybe that was the beginning of the blockade - we DO know from other sourcese later on that the Yavin system was totally blockaded to prevent rebels from escaping. Couple that with Tarkin's refusal to dpeloy his fighter strength and we can conclude he ordered the escorts away to both cordon off the system and because he didn't think he needed them.)

On the Rebel side, you could argue that Dodonna's plan might have neccesitated calling off the escorts around the Death Star, so Dodonna "called in" ships to pull those escorts away (and allow the rebel fighters to appraoch the Death Star basically unmolested.) That would be about the ONLY way I could see the Rebels bringing any fleet assets in or around Yavin at that point in time.

Odds are most fighter or small craft mentioned in other sources (ARC-170s stormtrooper transports, "other various fighterS", etc) will have to be ditched given that the vast bulk of sourcse (radio drama and novel) make specific mention of the known "attacking" ships (or the majority, which were x- and Y-wings IIRc.) You might make allowances for a few "other" ships (the Spearhead fighters, perhaps) as being part of the "squadrons" not seen in the movies but mentioned in the novel attacking other sections of the Death STar in diversionary tactics (yellow and Green, IIRC.) b ut most of those would have been X-wings and Y-wings also. Either that, or the vessels were not spaceworthy for one reason or another (crippled, disabled, lack of pilots, etc.)