StarDestroyer.Net BBS

...to draw a comparison to Lucas 1977 and Lucas 2005, imagine Luke returning to the homestead to discover it set ablaze and his aunt and uncle's skeletons strewn on the ground; Luke watches it with sadness and John Williams' music is sweeping us away--and then Luke arches back and cries out "NOOOooooooo" before the scene irises out.

This relates mostly to broad conception--for instance, to draw a comparison to Lucas 1977 and Lucas 2005, imagine Luke returning to the homestead to discover it set ablaze and his aunt and uncle's skeletons strewn on the ground; Luke watches it with sadness and John Williams' music is sweeping us away--and then Luke arches back and cries out "NOOOooooooo" before the scene irises out.

Cykeisme wrote:"Bwaaaa, SW movies have bad writing, why is Lucas making so much money??!!"

Aww, li'l sad fuck is jealous!

*Furiously registers a domain just to whine about it*

Cykeisme wrote:Yeah, maybe Lucas hadn't decided whether or not Vader would be Luke's father till '78. Maybe the pacing and character development and whatnot ain't the best. Maybe blah blah blah..

It would puzzle him that I can love Star Wars and still say, "Who cares?"

Galvatron wrote:I'm less interested in the evolution of the story than I am about how everything went down hill after TESB. His explanation for that was very enlightening.

But what exactly is the cause of the noticeable difference in quality? When it was just the original trilogy it was presumed to simply be bad luck--Lucas was successful twice but then slipped a bit for the third entry; you can't get it perfect every time. But when the special editions presented the same questionable material (ie a musical number, Han shooting second, Luke screaming in his fall from Bespin) it raised some alarms--alarms that the prequels confirmed. Now it was no longer an exception but a deliberate trend--there was something inherent in the mind and manner which was producing the material itself.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote: In the forward. Or did you not even fucking read the goddamn 3-paragraph forward before your gallant rush to judge?

Galvatron wrote:The prequels did better with the critics? Not according to RottenTomatoes.com.

Tomatometer Ranking of Star Wars Series Based on Critical Reaction During Original Release Dates:
83% - Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
79% - Star Wars
65% - Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones
62% - Star wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace
52% - The Empire Strikes Back
31% - Return of the Jedi"

Regardless, by down hill, I meant quality-wise.

To quote the article that I linked to in my OP...

But what exactly is the cause of the noticeable difference in quality? When it was just the original trilogy it was presumed to simply be bad luck--Lucas was successful twice but then slipped a bit for the third entry; you can't get it perfect every time. But when the special editions presented the same questionable material (ie a musical number, Han shooting second, Luke screaming in his fall from Bespin) it raised some alarms--alarms that the prequels confirmed. Now it was no longer an exception but a deliberate trend--there was something inherent in the mind and manner which was producing the material itself.

Mange wrote:I'm pretty "meh" on the issue. He has no official insight and while some things are interesting, it's mostly tedious. Oh, and I noticed that he's buying into the "Son of the Suns" myth. The raw source recording was released on Hyperspace in February 2007 (the Insider complement with a boring Pablo intro) and according to Skywalker sound, the shout was in Huttese.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

Mange wrote:I'm pretty "meh" on the issue. He has no official insight and while some things are interesting, it's mostly tedious. Oh, and I noticed that he's buying into the "Son of the Suns" myth. The raw source recording was released on Hyperspace in February 2007 (the Insider complement with a boring Pablo intro) and according to Skywalker sound, the shout was in Huttese.

So what is it actually saying, at least, what's the transcription in Huttese?

Because I watched that scene on the DVD about a week ago, and I'd be damned, but it really does sound like they're shouting "Son of the Suns!"

Aaron2 wrote:I have to say, all in all, that it makes me like the Star Wars Saga less. Mostly because I prefer how the Force and the Jedi were in EP4.

This article will be an examination of the working methods of George Lucas, how they affected the end product, and how those working methods transformed--and what the repercussions were. It will be, essentially, an examination of why Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back had much better scripts than all the other sequels.

Elfdart wrote:Both Frank Darabont and Lawrence Kasdan were offered the job of re-writing TPM, but turned it down on the grounds that they thought the script was fine as is.

Johonebesus wrote: Eldfart, I am curious about your views on a related issue: Lucas' alleged dishonesty. The book documents statements that jive with my early memories, that Lucas did in fact publicly claim that he intended to make nine movies. Recently he has explicitly stated that he never made any such claim, that it was a 'figment" created by the press and he jokingly played along. This appears to be simply untrue.

May 24, 2005, 8:45AM

Is Lucas secretly planning another Star Wars trilogy?
By LISA ROSE
Newhouse News Service


Call them the Phantom Movies.

During the pre-release hullabaloo for The Empire Strikes Back in 1980, George Lucas suggested that the Luke Skywalker saga would not be complete after three films, or even six films. He spoke of intentions to make Star Wars a nine-installment franchise.

It was widely reported in print throughout the 1980s that he would create two follow-up trilogies, one going back in time to explore Darth Vader's roots and another turning the clock ahead to revisit the further adventures of his heroic son Luke Skywalker.

Yet it looks like that third set of films has vanished from the radar like a starship in hyperdrive.

According to Lucas, the new Jedi epic Revenge of the Sith is the swan song for the series. He believes the third prequel, which follows Anakin Skywalker's devolution into Darth Vader, provides the closure fans seek.

"The (series) starts with Darth Vader as a young lad and ends with him dying so I don't know where else I can take it," says Lucas. "It's what I wanted it to be."

The director denies ever stating that he'd make Episodes VII through IX, blaming the media for reporting rumors as fact in the early days of Star Wars.

Speaking to journalists earlier this month at his Skywalker Ranch headquarters in Marin County, Calif., Lucas said the hype was "created by you guys, not by me."

Technically, he never promised nine movies, but the news stories of Luke redux weren't pure fiction.

"We made an announcement to the press, 'There's enough material for three trilogies,'" says Gary Kurtz, producer of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back. "It wasn't that nine films were going to be made. It was to give you an idea of how much material was there."

Before Lucas wrote the script for 1977's Star Wars, he put together a novel-length treatment tracing the intergalactic exploits of Skywalker and son. In the blueprint, the plot spanned beyond Luke's young-adult years to portray him as an elder Jedi.

"He went on to become the master and pass on his training to someone else," Kurtz says, via phone from the U.K. office of his production company, Bella Jazz.

Kurtz adds that at one point, there was even talk of expanding the chronicle to 12 chapters.

"There were a lot of things bandied about. There were people who wanted to do novels, tangential stories that have nothing to do with the main story of the films. Every one of those could be turned into a film. There was an idea about using R2-D2 and C-3PO in a feature, or Han Solo's adventures. I suppose you could invent things forever, but I don't think anything concrete was too seriously considered."

According to Kurtz, the possibility of a third trilogy diminished when Lucas veered from his treatment to create Return of the Jedi. The original tale he mapped out didn't feature Ewoks or a second Death Star, and it culminated with the death of Han Solo. Princess Leia parts ways with Luke to lead those who survived her home planet's destruction.

The most critical change, however, was incorporating what would have been the climax of Episode IX, a showdown between Luke and Emperor Palpatine.

"The idea was that the Emperor would be hinted at and maybe seen occasionally but there wouldn't be a final confrontation with him until the ninth story," says Kurtz, who ended his association with Lucas after Empire, partially because he was displeased with the aforementioned revisions. Kurtz currently has three indie projects in the works, including 5-25-77, a comedy about a teenager's failed attempts to see Star Wars on opening day.

In Lucas' world, the Star Wars circle is complete. He plans to lower his directorial profile and work on smaller, more personal pictures, he says.

"I would lay money down that his heirs 20 years from now decide to continue the saga," says Anthony C. Ferrante, editor in chief of Cinescape, a genre-oriented movie magazine. "You can never say never. For the longest time I thought, 'No, he'll never do more Star Wars movies after Jedi. It's the '90s, he's never gonna get around to it.' But he did."

Then there is the issue of his original plans. Lucas has deliberately given the impression that he had the whole story planned out from the beginning, that it was always to be the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. Most evidence indicates that this is untrue, and that he only merged Vader and Anakin while writing TESB.

Now, leaving aside the whole question of quality, do you accept that Lucas has, shall we say, played into the hype surrounding Star Wars, and that he has been a bit less than straightforward regarding his early plans? Not that this is malicious or any sort of grand conspiracy, just that he, as a Hollywood type, has played along with and encouraged the "myth" of Star Wars, even if doing so necessitates that he play loose with the facts.