Clone Army Logistics In AOTC

Biddybot · Post by **Biddybot** » 2003-01-25 09:37am

I know where the Clone Army comes from, but what about some of their equipment and transport? I can buy the personal equipment and some of the smaller weapons--seem to recall a statement about the clones being well-trained, which would include live-fire exercises, I should think--and I can see civilian supply ships being quickly pressed into military service. But what about the more elaborate stuff, those pre-Walkers and gunships, for example? Where did they come from? How was everything so quickly organized? When the Kaminoans took on the assignment of creating an army for the Republic, did that include procuring all their euipment as well, meaning they contracted out to arms manufacturers of their choice? Just kinda wondering if there's an official or unified fan background for this. I'm sure I could find more on this if I hunted around, but it'd be nice to have everyone's info or theories in one place (or please direct me to a topic that already discussed this)...thanks...

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-01-25 12:18pm

Simple answer is that they build things fast in SW. For example, 25,000 ISDs were built for the Empire in a period of 20 years. That's an average of 1,250 ISDs per year. So, manufacturing the equipment for the Clone Army would be simple in SW terms.

Coalition · Post by **Coalition** » 2003-01-25 12:28pm

Manufacturing rates in SW could be far higher. After all, Poggle's Hive there (out of the 9 he controls) is capable of building 80,000 droids per day.

Starships would take longer, but as a dedicated purchase (figure ~25,000 troops per transport, for 1.2 million clones means 48 transports plus gear) means the Kaminoans could have bought their own assembly line for a couple months to build the ships and equipment.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-25 01:42pm

paladin, that works out to be over 3 ISDs a DAY >D

Biddybot · Post by **Biddybot** » 2003-01-25 01:45pm

Actually, when it came to time, I was specifically wondering about the time frame from Yoda deciding to go to Kamino and see the Clone Army for himself to transporting what he found to Geonosis, complete with equipment and support services and ready for combat. I'll buy that in times of war stuff can get built fast, but surely not that fast!

Could some of the specialized combat machinery have perhaps been leased by the Kaminoans for training purposes from private armies? Maybe there was no Republic army, but surely there were still planetary-scale civil wars ongoing here and there and people that had need of such things as gunships, else where could Yoda and co. have requisitioned them from so quickly? For that matter, where was the Clone Army trained? A nearby moon? Giant holo-decks? Huge underwater domes on the sea bottom? It's a mystery, albeit a solvable, off-screen one, I'm sure!

The official site does offer civilain applications and backgrounds for a couple of the vehicles, which makes sense, but not all. I don't think those gunships were being used for crop dusting.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-01-25 01:53pm

The equipment was purchased from Kuat. I would imagine that it would have been built overtly, but with the paper work saying it was for someone other than the Republic.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-25 01:54pm

If the 1.2 million "units" are divisions (the more realistic/reasonable conclusion), then there are 24 billion troops with "more on the way." This is actually low-end in my opinion, because calcs I did allowed easily for over a quarter of a trillion stormtroopers in ANH.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-01-25 01:57pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:If the 1.2 million "units" are divisions (the more realistic/reasonable conclusion), then there are 24 billion troops with "more on the way." This is actually low-end in my opinion, because calcs I did allowed easily for over a quarter of a trillion stormtroopers in ANH.

Or perhaps the Kaminos aren't the only ones doing the cloning. There could be other groups making clones on Palpatine's behalf. That would give redundance to the creation process, and give some variance to the final result. Having Stormtroopers of different heights would be an indication that Jango Fett wasn't the only die.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-25 02:06pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:Or perhaps the Kaminos aren't the only ones doing the cloning. There could be other groups making clones on Palpatine's behalf. That would give redundance to the creation process, and give some variance to the final result. Having Stormtroopers of different heights would be an indication that Jango Fett wasn't the only die.

Occam's Razor.

You're adding an unsubstanciated factor to the situation.

Each of those dome-cities should be capable of produces 1.2 million troops or more, and no SW technology, there could be thousands of such cities.

Moreover, the Kaminoans did not produce the Stormtroopers.

The Empire produced them for themselves, most likely in Deep Core cloning facilities. The extent to the facilities needed to maintain a set of clone stormtroopers vastly outnumbered that of the Empire.

The EU has a story "Pax Emperica" which explains why the OT troopers were different heights and such. As well as descibing the nature of OT stormtrooper cloning.

And I doubt the clone stormtroopers and even later-model clonetroopers were clones of Jango. That's simply idiotic.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-01-25 02:13pm

Well, I can't comment too much on the EU because I'm not too familiar with it.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:And I doubt the clone stormtroopers and even later-model clonetroopers were clones of Jango. That's simply idiotic.

Of course it's idiotic to have whole armies cloned from one die. But if you listen to Lucas' commentary on the AOTC DVD, he in fact expresses that the Stormtroopers are related to Jango is some way.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-25 02:19pm

Oh come on, he remarking amusingly that wouldn't it be quaint if Jango's head banging was passed on to all the stormtroopers.....please tell me that is not your idea of common-sense-overriding evidence.

Perhaps Jango's genetic make-up is incorperated into later clones genetic tailoring.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-25 02:20pm

Also given he has a tendancy to think some weird junk...let's hope he never *remakes* ANH/ESB/RoTJ and decide upon the whole all stormies=clones.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-25 02:52pm

He changes his mind too often.

And yeah, he does think some illogical stuff.

As much as the idea of the Empire being able to reduce volunteers into fanatical anonymous white-armored troops existing solely for the Empire appealed to me and in my eyes illuminated the stiffling conformity and totalitarianism of the Empire, GL has spoken and they are clones.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-25 03:17pm

Biddybot wrote:Actually, when it came to time, I was specifically wondering about the time frame from Yoda deciding to go to Kamino and see the Clone Army for himself to transporting what he found to Geonosis, complete with equipment and support services and ready for combat. I'll buy that in times of war stuff can get built fast, but surely not that fast!

It was all already built and waiting, get a copy of ICS. Hell we saw Clones loading up onto ships when obi wan arrived. It's quite likely those clones that where ready where living on their assigned transports. When Yoda arrived they just lifted off and went right to Geonosis, it's only a couple thousand light years between the two, that’s maybe an hours travel with a class 6 hyperdrive.

The Clone army could easily be trained just by taking a 5 minute flight to another system, or another planet in the system. On world training facilities are however possibul.

The US Army actually has a couple facilities in which an entire brigade of armor troops can train, and there the size of where houses. The inside is fill with hundreds of simulators; TV screens take the place of view ports and the like. All the sims are linked together, and to another set. Essentially two armored brigades can fight each other while 4000 miles apart without ever actually moving.

Only downside is the infantry can't train with the system.

Biddybot · Post by **Biddybot** » 2003-01-25 03:34pm

Cool. So when the Kaminoans took on the assignment of creating an army, they created an army--complete! I can buy that. As for the war machinery, I suppose you can hide a lot in plain sight if it's worded right.

PS: What is the ICS? I'm not into gaming or the EU and live in the equivalent of Ratsass, Maine.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-25 03:46pm

Incredible Cross Sections...some really nice stuff and gives more insight into the SW universe.

Biddybot · Post by **Biddybot** » 2003-01-25 04:04pm

Ah, Incredible Cross Sections, gotcha! I did have a quick go-through of this at the store and am currently waiting for it to come off the hold list at the library (one of those nice-to-read, not-necessary-to-own books for me--got the Visual Dictionary one instead). Will have a good look at everything once I have it. I really only closely perused the Geonosian fighter section while at the store and the notion of the pilots flying by scent got me laughing to the point that the nearby store clerk starting eyeing me suspiciously, so I put it back.

Oh, and while sort-of on the topic--yo, Coalition: Where did the bit with Poggle controlling nine hives come from? The Visual Dictionary maintains that the bracelets he wears indicates the number of hives under his control, and he's got quite the armloads, surely more than nine. Not to argue or anything, I'm just always on the lookout for any info to do with Geonosians!

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-25 04:21pm

For example, 25,000 ISDs were built for the Empire in a period of 20 years.

Acutal as I'd like to point out thats wrong, The ISD was not designed until a year or so before ANH

Meaning the 25k ISDs where built in less than 4 Years

Remeber Before the ISD MK II's was

Acclimator's/Dreadnaughts
Victory I
Victory II
ISD MK I
ISD MK II
They did not go on day one of the Empire with the design of the ISD MK II afterall

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-25 04:29pm

Mr Bean wrote:Acutal as I'd like to point out thats wrong, The ISD was not designed until a year or so before ANH

Where's that from Bean? Multiple stories depict ISDs designed and built probably five years before ANH. I'd say the design is at least 10 years old as of ANH.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-25 04:54pm

Where's that from Bean? Multiple stories depict ISDs designed and built probably five years before ANH. I'd say the design is at least 10 years old as of ANH.

I'm refering to the MK II Series which according to a few other sources was not put into production until just before ROTJ and Zahn later mentioned that those 25k ISDs are all MK II's(As according to a random quote I'll have to dig up from another author the MK I's went into plantary defense networks after the Run of MK II's where fully up and running)

Still thats a far cry from 20 years the orgional poster mentioned, more along the lines of five to ten....

Meaning alot bigger industrial capacity

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-01-26 12:16am

Mr Bean wrote:
For example, 25,000 ISDs were built for the Empire in a period of 20 years.
Acutal as I'd like to point out thats wrong, The ISD was not designed until a year or so before ANH

Meaning the 25k ISDs where built in less than 4 Years

So, basically the industrial capacity of SW would make the production time needed for supplying the Clone Army child's play.

25,000 ISDs mk2 in less than 4 years!

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-26 12:27am

paladin wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:
For example, 25,000 ISDs were built for the Empire in a period of 20 years.
Acutal as I'd like to point out thats wrong, The ISD was not designed until a year or so before ANH

Meaning the 25k ISDs where built in less than 4 Years
So, basically the industrial capacity of SW would make the production time needed for supplying the Clone Army child's play.

25,000 ISDs mk2 in less than 4 years!

Damn. I probably couldn't even make that many LEGO Star Destroyers in that short a time.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-01-26 04:28am

I think the equipment came with the soldiers from Kamino. The troopers seemed incredibly well versed in it and just beause they are uber military clones doesn't mean they hop in a Tank or a LAAT and know how to do everything.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-01-26 05:12am

There was a thread a long time ago about the training of clone troopers...I don't remember if it was on this board or Mike's predecessor board. I'll have to check.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-26 06:40am

It was on this board and the conculsion was that they where trained in place on Simulators

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