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A number of times when debating about the Force powers of Emperor Palpatine, the hiding of the SSD Lusankya beneath Coruscant's cityscape has been offered as "proof" of the Emperor's ability to force millions or billions of minds to forget this.

However, I have never been convinced about the details suggested here, when more mundane means (such as forced relocation or killing of witnesses) were avalaible and considering that the Emperor does not display mind-control powers in this scale anywhere else (with the possible exception of Byss during the Dark Empire period).

Can anyone in this forum provide the relevant quotes that could clarify this point?

Massive conspiracies with zero info leak are generally considered unlikely/impossible. Its certainly less massive a feat than clouding the vision of the Jedi or the Force storms.

I could have swore that the Essential Guide to Characters confirmed it under Ysanne Isard's biography, that he mindraped the planet.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Massive conspiracies with zero info leak are generally considered unlikely/impossible. Its certainly less massive a feat than clouding the vision of the Jedi or the Force storms.

There were zero info leaks about the clone army being built in Kamino (with troop transports being built by Kuat at the same time) and the construction of the Death Star II until Palpatine himself allowed the rebels to get the info. It has happened before.

Yeah, and being outside the galaxy on the former, and being totally isolated in the shit-ass Outer Rim over a planet of sub-industrial animals is totally comparable to the equivalent of burying a battleship in built-up NYC.

How was the ship buried anyway ?

The ship was built at Fondor or Kuat wasnt it so it must have had to travel all the way to Coruscant undetected while a big hole was built for it to land on.
Then the thing has to somehow land in the first place with the addition of applying that launch sled it had for taking off. It was mentioned that reports of the Empire acquiring the take off equipment was noticed by the Rebels.

I'm also curious how they buried it. Did they just drop the thing in a hole, cement over it and build hundreds of new buildings ontop of it or did they drop the thing in a hole and pass of the top side of an SSD as a collection of buildings ?

The situation would require the Emperor to "mindrape" everyone from the place of production to Coruscant followed by covering up the creation of an 8km ditch, the big massive 8km ship dropping into it then the efforts to cover it up with lots of legitimate buildings and ground. It seems rather implausible for people not to notice the sudden appearence of an 8km stretch of new buildings and features.

PREDATOR490 wrote:the big massive 8km ship dropping into it

That's 19km you sickening WEG-stooge/EU-minimalist

PREDATOR490 wrote:It seems rather implausible for people not to notice the sudden appearence of an 8km stretch of new buildings and features.

Buildings were being destroyed, recycled, and reconstructed on Coruscant all the time, at least they were in the Imperial era. For the Empire to begin construction in an area unused due to pollution or becausae it was too run down is not unlikely. The only problem then is the insertion of Lusankya. The ship IIRC blasted away vertically, so the length along the surface is not going to be nearly as large as one might think.

We know the Empire posessed cloaking technology, but I cannot say with any certainty that it came in to play here. The implactions of Palpatine being behind the cover up speak volumes about his reputation amongst those who knew of his powers. It could be either of those factors or both.

Starglider wrote:

PREDATOR490 wrote:the big massive 8km ship dropping into it

That's 19km you sickening WEG-stooge/EU-minimalist

Yes I know about them being 19km and all but the books of that series were written around the idea of them being 8km from what I recall and I thought it was suggested that they were a 8km special varient or somesuch.

Eitherway I dont care. 19km is even more stupid and if it was hidden vertically thats somewhat questionable to me as well. I thought it had a repulsor sled or something specially designed to lift off and was covering the entire thing like armor from the way it was describbed. I thought replusors generally had to face the direction of the ground so they could project their field down to make the thing go up...
If the SSD was vertical from the get go then its engines should be facing down and its nose pointing up at the sky which would make the repulsors vertical themselves.

Having a 19km long point stabbing into the sky dosent seem feasible. Especially with the whole issue of Corran's escape which relied on the plot point of the SSD artifical gravity being switched so that anyone attempting escape would be actually going down rather than up. If the place is vertical to the ground then the SSD must have been running its own artifical gravity to counteract the gravity of Coruscant so people sit on the floor rather than on the walls.
I would have thought the shape would be fairly distinctive as well as people noticing no walkways go into this "new" building or noticing any of its weapons.

PREDATOR490 wrote: Eitherway I dont care. 19km is even more stupid...

Hey don't look at me. This was a Michael Hackpole creation. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.

Retcons have clarified that all known Super Star Destroyers of the formerly "8 km" or "12.8 km" scale actually belong to the 19 km class of which the Executor is the prime vessel. In Lusankya's case she must be 19 km because of the whole ruse with her as the Executor's sister ship.

NEGC, page 83 wrote: She [Isard] renamed the vessel the Lusanyka, and with help from the Emperor's mind-fogging powers, Imperial engineers buried the tremendous battleship beneath the cityscape in Coruscant's Manari Mountain district.

From Krytos Trap:

The idea that a hundred-squarekilometer area of the planet could have been razed and rebuilt to hide a Super Star Destroyer seemed beyond belief, especially with no one noticing the ship's insertion into the hole. Could the Emperor's power through the dark side of the Force have been sufficient to compel thousands or millions of people to forget having seen the Lusankya being buried?

As hideous as that idea seemed, Wedge hoped it was the truth. The likely alternative--that the Emperor had ordered the deaths of all the witnesses--seemed that much more horrible.

As a side note, the "one hundreds square kilometers" bit implies the Lusanka is considerably larger than the 8 km length. I never thought about that before (it would admittedly be closer to the older and still inaccurate 12.8 km length, but hey..)

It also implies that "millions" of people could inhabit a 100 square km area approximately. That would imply a population density much higher than the "one trillion" figure commonly stated - greater by at least an order of magnitude.

I know I've heard the "billions" stated somewhere, but it escapes my mind at the moment.

amusingly, also from Krytos Trap:

W:,th the prow stabbing up into the sky, the Lusankya's thrusters ignited. Searing blue plasma vaporized huge chunks of cityscape beneath the ship's aft end. The destroyer began to move forward and upward out of the column of smoke that marked its birth. A ship that boasts a crew of over a quarter of a million individuals must have killed ten times that many lifting off.

That would imply similar population densities I believe, given the width of the Lusankya) it probably isn't much more than a 10 km diameter around the ship. The average density implied there would lead to many many trillions of people, not the one trillion figure.

Its not so much the Emperor using his powers to mind rape living people as the possibility he had to rape legions of droids, people in ships, cameras, pictures and sensors as well.

Palpatine must have had to literally close down Coruscant and have such a force present that all possible forms of recording equipment were taken out of operation which seems mind boggling

Its also rather foolish for the SSD to be vertical ontop of other buildings so that the Engines can fire down and kill trillions. Coruscant is supposed to be a network of buildings on buildings with lots of inner walkways and such. Wouldnt people around the SSD notice the distinct lack of any entrances into the SSD and those under it notice those thrusters or the repulsor equipment.

I would also have thought the people would notice the fact the building is covered in weapons or was the entire thing completely encased insome sort of camoflage ?

It was mentioned in 'Isards revenge' that Isard, when she was the Director of Imperial Intelligence had tried to find out how the ship had been shoved under the ground. But although she was able to narrow down roughly when it happened, she wasn't able to find out anything about HOW it was done and how it was utterly hidden.

Of course she might have been lying through her teeth, but she hypothesizes that it could only have been the power of the Force.

HIMS Lusankya was buried beneath the cityscape. Also, the Force can cloud recording equipment as easily as conscious minds. A dark side "doppleganger" is indistinguishable by all known scientific sensors as it is in the Force from its creator. The "doppleganger" skill is known to be among Lord Sidious' extensive talents.

Is it possible that it could have been encased in a building somewhere else and then taken to Coruscant and lowered into position as a new segment of the city? The repulser grid could have been what did the lowering and people just assumed someone had been lazy and never took it off. Who knows, this could be how all new buildings are added to Coruscant, instead of being built on-site.

Connnor MacLeod, thanks for the quotes. I also thank those who have contributed constructive comments in this thread.

My subjective opinion is that this is a gross breach of consistency with the power levels displayed both in both the PTL and the OTL, but under standard debate rules... Yeah, the case is clear.

Would it be possible for Palpatine to teleport the entire ship into its hiding-hole? Or to take the ship from Kuat, take it apart and build it back together on Coruscant?

Like a Guild Navigator? I don't think it'd work, plus you'd need a large hole under the surface of Coruscant, that'd be noticed by the people in the buildings built over that hole.

Which idiot come up with the idea of a battleship inserted and no built underground anyway?

Micheal Stackpole I guess... hopefully he didn't have help.

Murazor wrote:Connnor MacLeod, thanks for the quotes. I also thank those who have contributed constructive comments in this thread.

My subjective opinion is that this is a gross breach of consistency with the power levels displayed both in both the PTL and the OTL, but under standard debate rules... Yeah, the case is clear.

Like shrowding the entire Jedi Order's vision and access to the Force?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Murazor wrote:Connnor MacLeod, thanks for the quotes. I also thank those who have contributed constructive comments in this thread.

My subjective opinion is that this is a gross breach of consistency with the power levels displayed both in both the PTL and the OTL, but under standard debate rules... Yeah, the case is clear.

Like shrowding the entire Jedi Order's vision and access to the Force?

Hmm... That is being debated over here.

Marko Dash wrote:Who knows, this could be how all new buildings are added to Coruscant, instead of being built on-site.

Actually, we do know, and buildings are built on-site by gigantic construction droids.