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9 million stormtroopers
Posted: 2007-09-05 03:31pm
by Ender
According to the latest SWI, in the ask the master section, Jango clones are about a third of the stormtrooper corps. Simple math takes care of the rest.
yeah... I'm confident everyone knows my feelings.
Re: 9 million stormtroopers
Posted: 2007-09-05 03:42pm
by Fingolfin_Noldor
Ender wrote:According to the latest SWI, in the ask the master section, Jango clones are about a third of the stormtrooper corps. Simple math takes care of the rest.
yeah... I'm confident everyone knows my feelings.
Was this during the Clone wars or after?
Regardless, considering the size of the Imperial fleet, 9million is a stupidly small number.
Posted: 2007-09-05 03:55pm
by VT-16
Someone better tell those geniuses that this contradicts all known stories set in the Imperial era that concerns storm trooper numbers.
EDIT: Wookieepedia has this to say:
By 0 BBY, about one-third of the stormtroopers originated from the Fett DNA.
If taken from the article, that puts it in a different light.
Posted: 2007-09-05 03:57pm
by Fingolfin_Noldor
VT-16 wrote:Someone better tell those geniuses that this contradicts all known stories set in the Imperial era that concerns storm trooper numbers.
Someone should tell them that there were 25000 ISDs and staffed with thousands of stormtroopers each. Never mind the other larger ships and strategic reserves available to sector commands.
Posted: 2007-09-05 03:58pm
by Havok
Oh so Stormtroopers, a force on a
GALACTIC scale for the Empire, have slightly lower numbers than the population of California...
What does that equal out to? About 27 Stormtroopers a planet?
Posted: 2007-09-05 04:00pm
by Fingolfin_Noldor
havokeff wrote:Oh so Stormtroopers, a force on a
GALACTIC scale for the Empire, have slightly lower numbers than the population of California...
What does that equal out to? About 27 Stormtroopers a planet?
More like 9 or less.
Posted: 2007-09-05 04:12pm
by Havok
Well I was going by the "thousand thousand" worlds quote literally. and 27 million Stormies, the Jango clone being a third of that force.
Posted: 2007-09-05 04:22pm
by Fingolfin_Noldor
havokeff wrote:Well I was going by the "thousand thousand" worlds quote literally. and 27 million Stormies, the Jango clone being a third of that force.
Wait, is 9million for the Jango Clones and the other 18 are something else or? I don't have access to the magazine.
Posted: 2007-09-05 04:27pm
by Ender
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:havokeff wrote:Well I was going by the "thousand thousand" worlds quote literally. and 27 million Stormies, the Jango clone being a third of that force.
Wait, is 9million for the Jango Clones and the other 18 are something else or? I don't have access to the magazine.
Of the total force. about 1/3rd are jango clones, though they couch it by saying they don't know how many of those fought in the war.
We are told there are 3 million Jango clones.
Upperlimit for the total Stormie population is 9 million as a result.
Posted: 2007-09-05 04:34pm
by Fingolfin_Noldor
Ender wrote:Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:havokeff wrote:Well I was going by the "thousand thousand" worlds quote literally. and 27 million Stormies, the Jango clone being a third of that force.
Wait, is 9million for the Jango Clones and the other 18 are something else or? I don't have access to the magazine.
Of the total force. about 1/3rd are jango clones, though they couch it by saying they don't know how many of those fought in the war.
We are told there are 3 million Jango clones.
Upperlimit for the total Stormie population is 9 million as a result.
Ok... so 9 stormtroopers a planet...
Posted: 2007-09-05 04:53pm
by Havok
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Ender wrote:Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Wait, is 9million for the Jango Clones and the other 18 are something else or? I don't have access to the magazine.
Of the total force. about 1/3rd are jango clones, though they couch it by saying they don't know how many of those fought in the war.
We are told there are 3 million Jango clones.
Upperlimit for the total Stormie population is 9 million as a result.
Ok... so 9 stormtroopers a planet...
Oh geez, I thought that they "tried" to fix this by saying there were 9 million Jango Clones and
they made up a third of the corp. I guess in my hope for some intelligence on this matter I misread the OP and thread name.
Posted: 2007-09-05 05:25pm
by VT-16
VT-16 wrote:EDIT: Wookieepedia has this to say:
By 0 BBY, about one-third of the stormtroopers originated from the Fett DNA.
If taken from the article, that puts it in a different light.
Posted: 2007-09-05 06:50pm
by Jim Raynor
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Ender wrote:Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Wait, is 9million for the Jango Clones and the other 18 are something else or? I don't have access to the magazine.
Of the total force. about 1/3rd are jango clones, though they couch it by saying they don't know how many of those fought in the war.
We are told there are 3 million Jango clones.
Upperlimit for the total Stormie population is 9 million as a result.
Ok... so 9 stormtroopers a planet...
Less.
The Imperial Sourcebook states that the Empire holds sway over 50 million colonies, protectorates, etc. in addition to its main 1 million worlds. So, that's 0.18 stormtroopers per planet.
Going by the 25,000 ISD claim (which itself is pretty minimalistic), each carrying 9,700 stormtroopers, there should be 242.5 million troopers stationed on ISDs alone.
LFL is so slow and ass-covering in the way it handles continuity. They SHOULD just come out and shitcan the retarded "3 million" already, but that won't come for years, decades, or ever. Just look at the SSD controversy.
Posted: 2007-09-05 08:40pm
by Sidewinder
Jim Raynor wrote:Less. The Imperial Sourcebook states that the Empire holds sway over 50 million colonies, protectorates, etc. in addition to its main 1 million worlds. So, that's 0.18 stormtroopers per planet.
Going by the 25,000 ISD claim (which itself is pretty minimalistic), each carrying 9,700 stormtroopers, there should be 242.5 million troopers stationed on ISDs alone.
The Empire can NOT possibly control that many worlds with that few stormtroopers. Who the hell is responsible for this number?
Posted: 2007-09-05 09:16pm
by Havok
Sidewinder wrote:Jim Raynor wrote:Less. The Imperial Sourcebook states that the Empire holds sway over 50 million colonies, protectorates, etc. in addition to its main 1 million worlds. So, that's 0.18 stormtroopers per planet.
Going by the 25,000 ISD claim (which itself is pretty minimalistic), each carrying 9,700 stormtroopers, there should be 242.5 million troopers stationed on ISDs alone.
The Empire can NOT possibly control that many worlds with that few stormtroopers. Who the hell is responsible for this number?
Karren *shudders* Travis
Posted: 2007-09-05 10:04pm
by Darth Servo
Add "on the Death Star" to those statements.
Posted: 2007-09-05 10:38pm
by Connor MacLeod
that should actually read 6 million. The ROTS visual dictionary made it clear that by the time of ROTS, only about 2/3 of the original Clone Troopers were still in existence. And that's an upper limit; the remaining Jango clones would be well into their 70's possibly 80's by the time of the OT movies.
IIRC clones made up supposedly 60% of the stormtrooper corps, that might be taken to mean that 1/3 of the 60% (or roughly, 1/5 of all stormies) were Jango clones. That interpretation could give us 10 million or so stormies, ,but still too few. Frankly I think it should be obvious that taking these statements at facec value simply proves inconsistent.
We can, however, play things backwards. As said, ,we know there are at LEAST 250 million stormtroopers on the ISDs alone, nevermind garrisons, those on the thousands of SSDs in the galaxy (tens of millions of more Stormies easily) This also meshes with the "regiments with each governor" figure that provided for hundreds of millions/billions of clone troopers in the ROTS novel.
- Assuming that the Jango clones represented the full 1/3 of the overall Stormtrrooper force, that would mean that around 83 million trooperswere Jango fett clones.
- assuming the "one third of sixty percent" I vaguely recall from earlier sources factored in, ,that means that the Jango Fett clones represent roughly 50 million troops. You can further modify those figures by the "2/3 of the original army by ROTS" figure from the VD to increase the number of Jango clones (75 to 120 million Jango clones.)
There is another possible way to interpret it: By the time of ROTS, the Republic was growing new clones from other sources, but the clone army (as we see in the movie) is still Fett-based. We know from the novel they dispatched whole regiments along with the governors (which in the novel was implied to be at the system level, if not the planetary) that there are billions of clones simply involved in garrison duty, nevermind in conducting the war. Even assuming the Governors were "sector level" purely, there are at least 6,000 sectors in the Republic, ,and that implies at least 13-15 million troops simply in GArrison duty. This means that the stormtrooper corps would be 3-5x larger.
Regardless of the interpretation, the implications would be rather obvious - it would tend to suggest the above facts prove problmeatic and contradictory with the "3 million" figure of long past. I suppose someone could argue that some of those "fett clones" were Spaarti grown, but aside from the fact I can't recall evidence for it, it doesn't change the fact that the Army had to at some point grow larger than the paltry 3 million maintained as the entire GAR.
Note: It should be further noted that the 25,000 ISD figure could be consdervative, sincee other sources DO imply larger numberS (IE ISB suggests twice that number, if not more.)
Posted: 2007-09-05 10:56pm
by The Dark
Darth Servo wrote:Add "on the Death Star" to those statements.
Death Star added to the ISDs would make the fleet number 243.1 million. That doesn't include stormies on smaller ships (VSD, various cruisers, et cetera). Nor garrisons, and even Tatooine (only nominally part of the Empire) had at least a platoon at Mos Eisley. Assuming only a roughly platoon sized group of 10 per colony, and only 100 soldiers per main world (hah!), you get 600 million garrison troops, plus the shipboard troops, for a ridiculously low total of ~850 million minimum. I would be surprised if the number was less than 8.5 billion, since ten times that many troops would still be unbelievably low - 1000 troopers on Coruscant would be 1 soldier per 9
billion inhabitants, using Dr. Saxton's lowball estimate based off Perth of 9 trillion inhabitants. Using the more realistic estimates, it would be 1 soldier per every couple trillion inhabitants.
The US has approximately 1.5 million active duty soldiers, out of about 300 million total population, or 0.5% of the population. If the Empire were as militarized as the US, the low-population Coruscant alone would have 4.5 billion troops. Even if they were split among non-stormtrooper units (armored units, fleet, et cetera), probably at least a billion would be stormtroopers, based on their ubiquitousness in the films. To try to hold Coruscant alone with 3 million troopers would be like fighting the War on Terror with a literal Army of One.
Posted: 2007-09-06 03:57am
by Fire Fly
I guess I don't see what's wrong with Jango clones being 1/3 of the Stormtrooper corps, if this is OT era. By this time, we don't even know how large the Stormtrooper corps is and the number of Jango clones would have increased incredibly, even if it is the paltry 3 million. If anything, I think saying that Jango clones being 1/3 of the Stormtrooper corps supports the notion that the original clone army numbered well above 3 million if we simply backtrack to extrapolate a number.
Assuming a conservative average of 1 million Stormtroopers per member system (1 million), a conservative average of 10,000 Stormtroopers per colony/miscellaneous (50 million) = 1.5 trillion Stormtroopers
A conservative lower limit on the number of Stormtroopers would be on the order of 1.5 trillion, suggesting that the number of Jango clones would be 500 billion by OT time. Even using Spartii cloning cylinders, I don't think the Empire will be able to grow this many clones, if the original clone army was a mere 3 million, unless they were able to increase production by several hundreds of thousand percentages. Ergo, the original clone army must have numbered several orders of magnitude larger than 3 million for everything to be consistent.
Posted: 2007-09-06 05:42am
by Darth Servo
I meant add "on the Death Star" to these statements about the ridiculously low numbers of troops. "There are three million clones/9million stormtroopers on the Death Star".
Posted: 2007-09-07 05:45am
by The_Saint
The Dark wrote:...would be like fighting the War on Terror with a literal Army of One.
Isn't his name Jack Baur.
I have to admit I don't have any of the source books (none at all) that state at which point there are set numbers/ratios of clone troops....
Is there anything specific that states off-the-street recruitment levels or activity post ANH....????
I believe that there are a number of sources that state general recruitment as having astronomically increased following the beginning of the clone wars.
Posted: 2007-09-07 07:51am
by Zwinmar
Id almost prefer to just say that the stormtroopers are like the Astartes in 40k, the 'stormtroopers' we see in the movies are like the imperial guard. If you get what I mean. That way the bitch can give her number without contradictiing like..everything.
Posted: 2007-09-07 09:00am
by Tribun
Why the hell to they alway install these ridiculosly small numbers, only to slowly admit that they goofed up?
Are they lacking the imagination of the scale of the Empire?
Posted: 2007-09-07 09:10am
by Ritterin Sophia
Tribun wrote:Are they lacking the imagination of the scale of the Empire?
Because Star Wars fans are the opposite of the fans of every other series, they're antifans, wanting everything to be weaker.
Posted: 2007-09-07 09:15am
by Tribun
General Schatten wrote:Tribun wrote:Are they lacking the imagination of the scale of the Empire?
Because Star Wars fans are the opposite of the fans of every other series, they're antifans, wanting everything to be weaker.
From where does this idiotic thinking come from?
Is it the realisation that actually the protagonists would have been pretty meaningless if not for lots of dumb luck?
Thank all goodness that I discovered SD.net, before soaking up this shit.