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One situation I see a lot in AU fanfiction is the concept of the survivors of Order 66 getting together (usually on Dagobah) after Obi-Wan (having alternately survived the duel with Vader) calls them all.

Could this have been feasible at all? And if so, is it a stupid idea? While it may be a bit EU-wanky, I kind of think of it like Professor Farber in Fahrenheit 451 describing the state of the literate people post-change- it's just a bunch of retired misfits hiding or staying low. So you get a few dozen old Jedi or half-trained padawan together, and they become the nucleus of the NJO.

It does sound like a fairly feasible idea, to a certain extent, at least (although I doubt that Obi-Wan would call such a conclave; another survivor, however, might). Had the Jedi Purge been less effective, I have no doubt that more old Jedi masters and Knights would have come forward to help restart the Order (indeed, some like Ikrit did canonically). However, I doubt that they would have formed some sort of hidden conclave while the Empire was still at the apex of its power, at least not if Obi-Wan or Yoda was involved. The primary post-Order 66 doctrine of the surviving Jedi seems to have been diffusion; if more than one or two Jedi hide in the same locale, they're discovery is more likely and more damaging to the remnant of the Order when it occurs.

Then there's the fact that not all of the survivors would be content to simply wait for Palpatine's fall, or take part in it indirectly, as Luke's tutors did. Some, certainly, would be too proud to go into hiding, and would actively resist; this probably contributed to the Purge's impressive success rate, especially in the years immediately following the Clone Wars. It is odd that very few, if any, Jedi worked in groups to try and assault the Emperor's dominion, but I suppose that most Masters and Knights who survived long enough to actually coordinate on that level were wise enough to adopt a less-aggressive mindset (case in point, the assembly of Jedi on Kessel seen in Purge formed with the intent of resisting the Empire was quickly and totally annihilated, partially by the over-zealous actions of its own members).

Noble Ire wrote:However, I doubt that they would have formed some sort of hidden conclave while the Empire was still at the apex of its power, at least not if Obi-Wan or Yoda was involved. The primary post-Order 66 doctrine of the surviving Jedi seems to have been diffusion; if more than one or two Jedi hide in the same locale, they're discovery is more likely and more damaging to the remnant of the Order when it occurs.

Exactly. One security breech and there goes the rest of the Jedi. Anakin turning on them will be fresh in their memory; they can't know whether another traitor lurks in their ranks. So no the (marginal) benefits aren't worth the risks.

Starglider wrote:

Noble Ire wrote:However, I doubt that they would have formed some sort of hidden conclave while the Empire was still at the apex of its power, at least not if Obi-Wan or Yoda was involved. The primary post-Order 66 doctrine of the surviving Jedi seems to have been diffusion; if more than one or two Jedi hide in the same locale, they're discovery is more likely and more damaging to the remnant of the Order when it occurs.

Exactly. One security breech and there goes the rest of the Jedi. Anakin turning on them will be fresh in their memory; they can't know whether another traitor lurks in their ranks. So no the (marginal) benefits aren't worth the risks.

I didn't think Vader's identity was common knowledge, even to the Jedi that survived.

Battlehymn Republic wrote:One situation I see a lot in AU fanfiction is the concept of the survivors of Order 66 getting together (usually on Dagobah) after Obi-Wan (having alternately survived the duel with Vader) calls them all.

I once participated in an AU Star Wars RPG where Mace Windu was sent off on a mission near the end of the Clone Wars, so he actually wasn't around when Anakin discovered Palpatine was Sidious. So proceed almost as canon, only Windu isn't there (maybe Anakin goes with the Jedi to arrest Palpatine, but Palpatine manipulates him to turn on the others).

Anyway, Vader still loses to Obi-Wan and gets the suit, and afterwards proceeds to start wiping out the Jedi. Cue Mace Windu returning from his mission, seeing the state of affairs, and going "Aw HELL naw!" as he marches up to Palpatine's office and kicks his ass.

So basically the game start was we were all Jedi who survived somehow who were trying to rebuild the Jedi Order and the Republic, the latter of which was only partway through transition to the Empire, and so was basically coming apart at the seams even more quickly than in canon. On a side note, my character's shtick was that he was in love with a Dark Jedi (they had an affair, and she fell when my character's master tried to break them up), but couldn't bring himself to leave the Jedi and go with her.

Civil War Man wrote:

Battlehymn Republic wrote:One situation I see a lot in AU fanfiction is the concept of the survivors of Order 66 getting together (usually on Dagobah) after Obi-Wan (having alternately survived the duel with Vader) calls them all.

I once participated in an AU Star Wars RPG where Mace Windu was sent off on a mission near the end of the Clone Wars, so he actually wasn't around when Anakin discovered Palpatine was Sidious. So proceed almost as canon, only Windu isn't there (maybe Anakin goes with the Jedi to arrest Palpatine, but Palpatine manipulates him to turn on the others).

Anyway, Vader still loses to Obi-Wan and gets the suit, and afterwards proceeds to start wiping out the Jedi. Cue Mace Windu returning from his mission, seeing the state of affairs, and going "Aw HELL naw!" as he marches up to Palpatine's office and kicks his ass.

So basically the game start was we were all Jedi who survived somehow who were trying to rebuild the Jedi Order and the Republic, the latter of which was only partway through transition to the Empire, and so was basically coming apart at the seams even more quickly than in canon. On a side note, my character's shtick was that he was in love with a Dark Jedi (they had an affair, and she fell when my character's master tried to break them up), but couldn't bring himself to leave the Jedi and go with her.

I'm a Mace Fanwhore sos I like this!!

havokeff wrote:I'm a Mace Fanwhore sos I like this!!

Well I think it has to be him, Yoda (for the comic value) or Vader, and he's certainly the most badass of the three .

havokeff wrote:I didn't think Vader's identity was common knowledge, even to the Jedi that survived.

They don't have to know that Anakin survived and became Vader to know that he betrayed them and slaughtered all the younglings in the temple. If anyone at all got out, or even got a transmission out, from the temple on Coruscant the knowledge should spread pretty fast.

You don't think one of the first things Palpatine did before sending the Order 66 to the rest of the Clonetroopers was jam all transmissions from the Temple?

That's basic assault stratergy when planning an ambush, and Palpatine was a MASTER of stratergy.

No one outside of Kenobi and Yoda knew who Vader was. A few people might have figured it out eventually, or Vader told them (i.e like he did to the one Jedi master he'd beaten to death in Dark Lord), and Bail Organa might have tipped of a few, but realistically...

*spoilers for Death Star*


Tarkin deduces Vader's identity as Anakin Skywalker.

Solauren wrote:You don't think one of the first things Palpatine did before sending the Order 66 to the rest of the Clonetroopers was jam all transmissions from the Temple?

Given that a key point in the film's plot was that the Temple was still transmitting, and the clones weren't even monitoring it, no, I do not think that this happened.

That's basic assault stratergy when planning an ambush, and Palpatine was a MASTER of stratergy.

Er... What? The only battle he personally commanded (ignoring Wankatine, whom I honestly don't know the details of) was an utter disaster, where he died. Political strategy, yes. Military strategy? Not to my knowledge.

NecronLord wrote:

Solauren wrote:You don't think one of the first things Palpatine did before sending the Order 66 to the rest of the Clonetroopers was jam all transmissions from the Temple?

Given that a key point in the film's plot was that the Temple was still transmitting, and the clones weren't even monitoring it, no, I do not think that this happened.

It was a trap: a return signal for luring the survivors to the rifles of the 501st Legion and other clonetroopers.

lord Martiya wrote:

NecronLord wrote:Given that a key point in the film's plot was that the Temple was still transmitting, and the clones weren't even monitoring it, no, I do not think that this happened.

It was a trap: a return signal for luring the survivors to the rifles of the 501st Legion and other clonetroopers.

Except that nobody appeared to notice that Obi-Wan and Yoda altered the signal to warn off any surviving Jedi. They weren't monitoring it.

lord Martiya wrote:It was a trap: a return signal for luring the survivors to the rifles of the 501st Legion and other clonetroopers.

Yes, it was. And they were so inept as to not have anyone monitoring it in order to change it back or put a turbolaser bolt into the building when it was altered. This does not inspire faith in their signal-security for the operation.

Bail Organa was allowed to just fly his civillian speeder up to the temple. Impressed by their operational security, I am not.

NecronLord wrote:

lord Martiya wrote:It was a trap: a return signal for luring the survivors to the rifles of the 501st Legion and other clonetroopers.

Yes, it was. And they were so inept as to not have anyone monitoring it in order to change it back or put a turbolaser bolt into the building when it was altered. This does not inspire faith in their signal-security for the operation.

Bail Organa was allowed to just fly his civillian speeder up to the temple. Impressed by their operational security, I am not.

I just assumed the new message Obi-Wan sent out from the temple was encoded or piggybacked on/in the original recall message. He said it would be a while before they found it, not they would never find it. It's not like no one wouldn't have noticed two Jedi slaughtering clone troopers outside the temple. Although apparently their descriptions didn't get out since Palpatine seemed a little miffed to see Yoda in his office later on.

Bail also flew his speeder up while the attack was just ending. The clones might not have had everything locked down yet. Not even all the Jedi were accounted for at that point.

havokeff wrote:I just assumed the new message Obi-Wan sent out from the temple was encoded or piggybacked on/in the original recall message.

Why? How are the Jedi going to know what to look for unless it's obvious? How are the clonetroopers (assuming they're competant, which they're obviously not) going to miss it if it is?

He said it would be a while before they found it, not they would never find it. It's not like no one wouldn't have noticed two Jedi slaughtering clone troopers outside the temple.

Well, again, they appear not to have immediately noticed it, or else it was a real mickey mouse operation. You'd think to 'supress this rebellion' they'd have tanks and starfighters and everything else one could possibly want on the go, given that the order came directly from the Supreme Chancellor/Emperor.

Although apparently their descriptions didn't get out since Palpatine seemed a little miffed to see Yoda in his office later on.

Bail also flew his speeder up while the attack was just ending. The clones might not have had everything locked down yet. Not even all the Jedi were accounted for at that point.

Quite so. Which makes one wonder why they didn't have starfighter cover and similar to stop the jedi escaping...

I believe there was this one instance a bunch of Order 66 survivors got together to organize a plan to knock off Vader and Palpatine, but Vader beat them to the punch, so to speak.

In Dark Lord, we learn that Vader did find out that the transmission had been altered and that the Clonetroopers were able to track the Jedi accessing the Temple archives via a remote relay.

Similarly, the group of Jedi had disobeyed Obiwan order to lie low and their decision to rally and strike back was quickly dismembered by Vader

Pelranius wrote:I believe there was this one instance a bunch of Order 66 survivors got together to organize a plan to knock off Vader and Palpatine, but Vader beat them to the punch, so to speak.

Actually, for what I know, they lured Vader in an ambush and were beating (at least, the survivors were beating him) when a group of Stormtroopers sent by Palpatine attacked and killed the Jedi.

Actually, for what I know, they lured Vader in an ambush and were beating (at least, the survivors were beating him) when a group of Stormtroopers sent by Palpatine attacked and killed the Jedi.

Nah, Vader pretty much kicked their asses. I think two of them weren't even warriors, they were Agricultural Corps. Only one of them (the main character of the book) puts up a decent fight, but he is overwhelmed by Vader's staggering Force power. Vader confesses to him that he is Anakin Skywalker as he lies dying.

Perhaps we are referring to two different incidents. The one about I talked is the one in Star Wars: Purge, when 8 Jedi attacked Vader on Kessel. With some tricks like a cortosis sword they beated him (not before Vader killed 5 of them), but at this point stormtroopers of the 501st attacked and killed them.

My mistake, I thought we were still on Dark Lord.

An interesting thing I spotted in a fanfiction- could it be possible that Palpatine knew that Yoda was living on Dagobah all along, but let him stay there because he would be powerless to do anything against the Empire?

It would be a little in-character; Palpatine does love playing overly complex games with people. But I would think it unlikely simply because Palpatine in the RotS novelization shows such a tremendous and implacable hatred for Yoda that I just can't picture him contentedly leaving Yoda alone.

Further, Palpatine's track record on playing-with-his-food has never been purely to increase their suffering (at least in the movies) unless it also achieved another purpose like turning a Jedi to the dark side, or furthering his political motives. I can't see him letting Yoda alone just so that Yoda suffers unless he also derived some other benefit - like potentially using Yoda as bait or as a hostage.

And again, if that were the case, then why not use it in ESB?

-AHMAD

Battlehymn Republic wrote:An interesting thing I spotted in a fanfiction- could it be possible that Palpatine knew that Yoda was living on Dagobah all along, but let him stay there because he would be powerless to do anything against the Empire?

In the novel for ROTJ, Palpatine doesn't know who trained Luke and finds out this info in the throne room on the DS, as well as learning that he has died.