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If the Force is so powerful, why do Jedi and Sith need weapons?

Because the weapons in question are laser swords. Everything is cooler with laser swords!

for the jedi it's because the type of Force they use (the Light side) isn't that good for combat in the end, and for the Sith you need something to kill the opponent with even if he blocks/redirectes your Force attacks

So, the Force really isn't that powerful.

A thing to consider is that the most powerful tend to rely on their weapons less. For example, Yoda and Fey, among the Jedi, rarely used swords. Look at Yoda's fights in the films; he only draws his sword in AotC when it's clear that neither he nor Dooku have an advantage in terms of force skill. In Revenge, both Masters start and finish the fight without weapons, their swords are only one weapon in their arsenal, with much of their offensive power coming from the Force.

Fey (from some of the comics) is an even more extreme example, she's believed to have not even owned a lightsaber, and kills her enemies, when it's necessary to do so, by telekinetically firing multitudes of small objects at them.

Most importantly of all, however, is that you must remember that it's the Jedi's skill with the force that lets them weild lightsabers so effectively. They would simply be shot dead on almost all occasions if they did not have the force, which allows them to deflect blaster shots.

Chris Parr wrote:So, the Force really isn't that powerful.

I smell... troll. No, dipshit, most offensive applications, excluding force pushes or pulls to put a foe off-balance, are darkside oriented. Sith need a weapon to defend themselves when a foe gets the drop on them, then there's the problem that using the force against other force users is more difficult that normal people, since he can in turn fend off your aneurism inducing telekinetic attacks with his own telekinesis, and to overcome that you need some more power, and considering most people don't have the ability to rip a mile long starship from the sky (Vader's Apprentice) or make someone spontaneously combust (Young Anakin when he got angry) it's just smart. But you'll probably ignore this and twist whatever I say in a way that suites you.

General Schatten wrote:

Chris Parr wrote:So, the Force really isn't that powerful.

I smell... troll. No, dipshit, most offensive applications, excluding force pushes or pulls to put a foe off-balance, are darkside oriented. Sith need a weapon to defend themselves when a foe gets the drop on them, then there's the problem that using the force against other force users is more difficult that normal people, since he can in turn fend off your aneurism inducing telekinetic attacks with his own telekinesis, and to overcome that you need some more power, and considering most people don't have the ability to rip a mile long starship from the sky (Vader's Apprentice) or make someone spontaneously combust (Young Anakin when he got angry) it's just smart. But you'll probably ignore this and twist whatever I say in a way that suites you.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

Methinks Chris Parr fails to understand the difference between the Force and those who use the Force.

ALL RIGHT ALREADY!

I get it, now. The Force is all powerful. But an individual's ability to use the Force is limited, so they have to use weapons when their skill with the Force isn't enough.

Chris Parr wrote:ALL RIGHT ALREADY!

I get it, now. The Force is all powerful. But an individual's ability to use the Force is limited, so they have to use weapons when their skill with the Force isn't enough.

Right. Reliance on lightsabres might also be a crutch of the Jedi Order: they've shown distinct institutional conservatism and lack of adaptibility. For an example, consider the battle of Geonosis: the Jedi ignited their lightsabres in the midst of the crowd and jumped down into the center, expecting to fight with their lightsabres.

General Schatten wrote:I smell... troll.

Really? On the basis of two entire posts? Do enlighten me on how you came to that conclusion. Was it a consistent pattern of denial and dishonesty? Was it an admission of trolling? Maybe you have a supernatural ability to read minds, detect obfuscation, or see the future? Or ... perhaps you're blowing hot air out your ass. Yeah, that's probably it.

In fact, you're simply a little cuntsmelling asshole. What the hell possessed you to declare "troll" and open up the flamethrower on the basis of two posts, jackass? Are you really such a social misanthrope that you need to get your shits and giggles picking on new members of an online message board? There's a short word for that sort of person: loser.

Chris Parr wrote:ALL RIGHT ALREADY!

I get it, now. The Force is all powerful. But an individual's ability to use the Force is limited, so they have to use weapons when their skill with the Force isn't enough.

It depend by the situation. In Clone Wars Mace Windu alone smash a droid army with telekinesys and punches.

Because cutting through things with a lightsaber is less tiring and less time-consuming than cutting through things with the Force.

That, and it's proabaly less exhausting.

The lightsaber is mostly a defensive weapon. It suits the Jedi since they are a non-offensive Order. The Sith use them as a hold over from once being part of that Order. It's also pretty fucking handy. But as Obi-Wan showed, Jedi are not above using blasters if the case arises. They just consider it "uncivilized", it seems, mostly out of arrogance.

havokeff wrote:The lightsaber is mostly a defensive weapon. It suits the Jedi since they are a non-offensive Order. The Sith use them as a hold over from once being part of that Order. It's also pretty fucking handy.

Don't the Sith also use lightsabres to humiliate the Jedi? I think there was something about that in Dark Lord, but I haven't got my copy to check.

For what I know, the Sith used lightsabers because once they were armed with the so-called 'Jedi Katanas' and the Jedi were slaughtering them with lightsabers.

Surlethe wrote:

havokeff wrote:The lightsaber is mostly a defensive weapon. It suits the Jedi since they are a non-offensive Order. The Sith use them as a hold over from once being part of that Order. It's also pretty fucking handy.

Don't the Sith also use lightsabres to humiliate the Jedi?

That's what I believe Palpatine said about the issue. They did in the Golden Age and for a time used swords that were treated and enhanced by the Force to essentially be Lightsabers.

As stated, lightsabers are useful for defense and utility. Why exert oneself with the Force to tear down a wall when the lightsaber can cut through it? Also, with their limited precog and enhanced reactions, the lightsaber can be used to defend against blasters. The only Force users I'm aware of who didn't need a lightsaber to stop blasterfire were Vader and Horn - it's uncertain how much of Vaders ability was Force and how much was suit, and Horn was the best energy absorber known among the New Jedi.

The Dark wrote:it's uncertain how much of Vaders ability was Force and how much was suit

That he was actually able to reflect some of the energy back at Han suggests that the Force was probably contributing the lion's share to that feat.

Also, Yoda showed the capability to block, reflect, and absorb the energy from Force lightning without a lightsaber. It's not the same kind of energy, but unless Force lightning is less intense than blaster bolts, it suggests that he may have also been able to block blaster bolts without a lightsaber if he desperately needed to.

Surlethe wrote:

Chris Parr wrote:ALL RIGHT ALREADY!

I get it, now. The Force is all powerful. But an individual's ability to use the Force is limited, so they have to use weapons when their skill with the Force isn't enough.

Right. Reliance on lightsabres might also be a crutch of the Jedi Order: they've shown distinct institutional conservatism and lack of adaptibility. For an example, consider the battle of Geonosis: the Jedi ignited their lightsabres in the midst of the crowd and jumped down into the center, expecting to fight with their lightsabres.

You could also see lightsaber training itself as a mental training tool. Sharpen the mind and hone the body with some interesting secondary effects of being able to use the saber in combat.

also a Lightsabre is a potent symbol, especially during the Old Republic as jedi were semi mythical and lightsabre was considered Jedi only weapon, drawing (or even showing) a lightsabre could basically used to say "I'm a jedi and I mean business" even without activating it (remember how the nemodians proverbially shit themselves from having to face 2 jedi on a ship with thoughsands battledroids under the nemodian's command)

I wonder how far a Force Sensitive's powers could be pushed without Jedi or Sith dogma to hold him back.

Chris Parr wrote:I wonder how far a Force Sensitive's powers could be pushed without Jedi or Sith dogma to hold him back.

Uhm, the point of the prequels was that the Sith had evolved their powers and understanding of the Force to the point where the stagnate Jedi couldn't beat them one on one. There is no 'dogma' to hold the Sith back besides pure arrogance.

Can you imagine Spider-man swinging between skycrapers and making head shots at 500 m with his ungodly reflexes ?Or the Juggernaut using a chain gun to cut down those pesky fliers and speedsters he could not grab before ?

You know what most superheroes would be even stronger with a weapon not just Jedi. The Jedi merelyhappen to be smart enough to use a weapon extremely well suited for their particular powers.