Chiss vs. Yevetha

[montypython]

Would the combined forces of the Chiss have performed better against the Yevethan Black Fleet during BFC than the New Republic's Forces?

[Perseid]

No way, the Chiss would do a better job with the Republics resources, but they don't have the resources or technology to pull this off.

The Yevetha during BFC had access to an Imperial sector fleet, the black fleet, complete with an SSD as well as the various "egg" ships of their own design.
The presence of the black fleet is what causes the Republic to send in the 5th fleet in the first place, and to my knowledge, at least until somewhere around the Vong war, the Chiss didn't have anywhere near the technology or ships to match.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

No way, the Chiss would do a better job with the Republics resources, but they don't have the resources or technology to pull this off.

The Yevetha during BFC had access to an Imperial sector fleet, the black fleet, complete with an SSD as well as the various "egg" ships of their own design.
The presence of the black fleet is what causes the Republic to send in the 5th fleet in the first place, and to my knowledge, at least until somewhere around the Vong war, the Chiss didn't have anywhere near the technology or ships to match.

Personally, I believe Chiss shipbuilding technology is on par with Imperial technology. The only question is whether they have the resources to do so. They do have ships of similar size to the Victory class star destroyers.

[Illuminatus Primus]

No way, the Chiss would do a better job with the Republics resources, but they don't have the resources or technology to pull this off.

The Yevetha during BFC had access to an Imperial sector fleet, the black fleet, complete with an SSD as well as the various "egg" ships of their own design.
The presence of the black fleet is what causes the Republic to send in the 5th fleet in the first place, and to my knowledge, at least until somewhere around the Vong war, the Chiss didn't have anywhere near the technology or ships to match.

Personally, I believe Chiss shipbuilding technology is on par with Imperial technology. The only question is whether they have the resources to do so. They do have ships of similar size to the Victory class star destroyers.

Your opinion qualifies as substantive evidence since when? Gamer 5 establishes their insularity is in large part because of inferior navigation and hyperspace transit capability. They use BOOKS for keeping navigation records. Any additional capability is new innovation, or worse (simply appropriating left over Imperial hardware).

[VT-16]

According to Coruscant and the Core Worlds, the Yevetha have the SSD Aramadia in their roster as well. It's one of the Imperial ships slaved together and gets hijacked by the Imps like the others. Since the NR only focus on the size and threat of the Intimidator, this vessel would have to be significantly smaller in size, probably a Star Cruiser.

Either way, with two SSDs and a number of SDs in their fleet, what would the Chiss have at the time to counter the Yevetha?

[lord Martiya]

Frigates and a more experienced military. If this experience can counter a Star Dreadnought, this is a thing that I don't know.

[montypython]

Just as a point of clarification, the Chiss forces stated are including all the Forces of the Empire of the Hand as well.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Your opinion qualifies as substantive evidence since when? Gamer 5 establishes their insularity is in large part because of inferior navigation and hyperspace transit capability. They use BOOKS for keeping navigation records. Any additional capability is new innovation, or worse (simply appropriating left over Imperial hardware).

I said shipbuilding, I didn't say ship systems. You can build fine ships but with shitty systems. From what I remember they copied lots of Imperial technology, especially given the similarity of their claw fighters to the TIE interceptors, and the fact they have ships that were described as Victory star destroyer analogs further substantiates this.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Just as a point of clarification, the Chiss forces stated are including all the Forces of the Empire of the Hand as well.

We don't know exactly how well-manned the Empire of the Hand was or is; and it appears to have been disbanded anyway. Furthermore, its cheap to change the goalposts in mid-discussion.

[montypython]

Wasn't intending to change the goalposts, it became apparent that I hadn't been specific enough about things beforehand in the OP, apologies on that.

[TC Pilot]

This all depends on to what extent the Defense Fleet had incorporated Imperial designs and technology into their existing starfleet by the time of the Black Fleet Crisis.

A Chiss fleet akin to the one deployed in the Swarm War would have most likely beaten the Yevethan fleet decisively, since the captured Black Fleet was never a threat (regardless of who the Yevetha were facing, the captured Imperials would have taken control and fled to Byss). In contrast, a Chiss fleet more like the one in Outbound Flight would have suffered far greater casualties.

The Yevetha were only really a threat because the New Republic was so crippled by internal politics and the Dushkan League so psychopathic.

[Perseid]

Your opinion qualifies as substantive evidence since when? Gamer 5 establishes their insularity is in large part because of inferior navigation and hyperspace transit capability. They use BOOKS for keeping navigation records. Any additional capability is new innovation, or worse (simply appropriating left over Imperial hardware).

I said shipbuilding, I didn't say ship systems. You can build fine ships but with shitty systems. From what I remember they copied lots of Imperial technology, especially given the similarity of their claw fighters to the TIE interceptors, and the fact they have ships that were described as Victory star destroyer analogs further substantiates this.

They didn't deploy Vic analogs until the Swarm War, and I believe it's supposed to be a new ship class built using technology provided by the Empire of the Hand.

[lord Martiya]

The Yevetha were only really a threat because the New Republic was so crippled by internal politics and the Dushkan League so psychopathic.

BTW, I'm wondering why the New Republic didn't deploy her Star Dreadnought like Lusankya and Guardian (according to Wookiepedia, New Republic captured these ships) with the Fifth Fleet against the Yevetha. The Yevetha had at least one Star Dreadnought, maybe two, and a Star Cruiser, but their crew were inexpert while the crew of Lusankya and Guardian were expert and knew how kill a Star Dreadnought.

[Perseid]

The Yevetha were only really a threat because the New Republic was so crippled by internal politics and the Dushkan League so psychopathic.

BTW, I'm wondering why the New Republic didn't deploy her Star Dreadnought like Lusankya and Guardian (according to Wookiepedia, New Republic captured these ships) with the Fifth Fleet against the Yevetha. The Yevetha had at least one Star Dreadnought, maybe two, and a Star Cruiser, but their crew were inexpert while the crew of Lusankya and Guardian were expert and knew how kill a Star Dreadnought.

The Republic were still going through their whole "Star Dreadnoughts are evil" stage thanks to Mon Mothmas influence before she stepped down.

It actually took the events of Dark Saber and the BFC to shock them into building their own Star Dreadnought, the Mon Cal Star Defender, and to start fielding their own captured SSD's as well.

[Chris OFarrell]

The Yevetha were only really a threat because the New Republic was so crippled by internal politics and the Dushkan League so psychopathic.

BTW, I'm wondering why the New Republic didn't deploy her Star Dreadnought like Lusankya and Guardian (according to Wookiepedia, New Republic captured these ships) with the Fifth Fleet against the Yevetha. The Yevetha had at least one Star Dreadnought, maybe two, and a Star Cruiser, but their crew were inexpert while the crew of Lusankya and Guardian were expert and knew how kill a Star Dreadnought.

Its because EU writers at this point in time didn't bother to talk to each other very much.
Well that and McWhatshisname was utterly obsessed with the insane New Class designs.

[Gustav32Vasa]

Well that and McWhatshisname was utterly obsessed with the insane New Class designs.

New Class?

[Lord Pounder]

The Yevetha were only really a threat because the New Republic was so crippled by internal politics and the Dushkan League so psychopathic.

BTW, I'm wondering why the New Republic didn't deploy her Star Dreadnought like Lusankya and Guardian (according to Wookiepedia, New Republic captured these ships) with the Fifth Fleet against the Yevetha. The Yevetha had at least one Star Dreadnought, maybe two, and a Star Cruiser, but their crew were inexpert while the crew of Lusankya and Guardian were expert and knew how kill a Star Dreadnought.

The Republic were still going through their whole "Star Dreadnoughts are evil" stage thanks to Mon Mothmas influence before she stepped down.

It actually took the events of Dark Saber and the BFC to shock them into building their own Star Dreadnought, the Mon Cal Star Defender, and to start fielding their own captured SSD's as well.

More correctly at the point the BFC was written the Bantam produced EU had colletively decided that the NR was too warm and fluffy to use even Imperial Star Destroyers except in rare cases. Later Bantam EU such as the Wraith Squadron books and other X-Wing books decided to give Wedge command of the Lusankya and reversed the idea put forth in BFC that the NR had scrapped the Star Dreadnaught it had captured to repair other smaller ships. Actual NR built Star Dreadnaughts didn't appear till the NJO era.

[lord Martiya]

New Class?

In-universe, the New Republic realized the need of standardizing her front line ships, so the governement commissioned some new class of starships ranging from corvettes to Star Destroyers. Later, after some ass kicked by Super Star Destroyer, the New Republic commissioned something bigger...

[VT-16]

utterly obsessed with the insane New Class designs

Sigh. A ship that's one hundreth the size of another still won't be able to beat it in a straight up fight, regardless of author-wank. ;P

OT: Someone needed to explain that to KJA as well, from what I hear the MC90 Galactic Voyager stood up to barrage from an Executor-class vessel and a fleet of Star Destroyers in Darksaber. Or did I dream it?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

utterly obsessed with the insane New Class designs

Sigh. A ship that's one hundreth the size of another still won't be able to beat it in a straight up fight, regardless of author-wank. ;P

OT: Someone needed to explain that to KJA as well, from what I hear the MC90 Galactic Voyager stood up to barrage from an Executor-class vessel and a fleet of Star Destroyers in Darksaber. Or did I dream it?

You didn't. Quite frankly, Mon Cal ships aren't getting enough loving from authors and so forth, that despite it being canon that Mon Cals contributed heart and soul to the Alliance. Blood included, by the teratonnes.

[Master_Baerne]

<snip>

They didn't deploy Vic analogs until the Swarm War, and I believe it's supposed to be a new ship class built using technology provided by the Empire of the Hand.[/quote]

Aren't they Imperial Star Destroyer analogs? I've lost my copy of TSW, but I think it says ISD, not VSD.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Another stylistic flourish of Dark Empire I enjoy. Republic Imperial Star Destroyers leading task forces. Hell, a panel of DE2 even featured a commandeered World Devastator serving in the NR fleet above Da Soocha V.

[Murazor]

Its because EU writers at this point in time didn't bother to talk to each other very much.
Well that and McWhatshisname was utterly obsessed with the insane New Class designs.

Actually, the Lusankya is explicitly stated in the novels to be the only SSD that the New Republic had captured at this point and that Mon Mothma had it decommissioned/sent to the scrapyard, which resulted in the New Republic shitting a brick when they found out what kind of flagship the Yevetha had.

[Androsphinx]

Its because EU writers at this point in time didn't bother to talk to each other very much.
Well that and McWhatshisname was utterly obsessed with the insane New Class designs.

Actually, the Lusankya is explicitly stated in the novels to be the only SSD that the New Republic had captured at this point and that Mon Mothma had it decommissioned/sent to the scrapyard, which resulted in the New Republic shitting a brick when they found out what kind of flagship the Yevetha had.

Which was then retconned into being majorly overhauled and unavaliable - as of "Isards' Revenge", which admittedly is seven years before BFC. There is not a convincing in-universe explanation, and the earlier material (BFC) should just be ignored on this one.

[TC Pilot]

The New Republic captured Lusankya in the Bacta War and Guardian sometime after Shadowhand, neither of which Mothma had any inclination of reintroducing back into the Republic fleet, and Leia was too much of her political heir and too anti-Imperial to employ such symbols of terror.

Frankly, until the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, there was no need for either ship. Mon Remonda was enough to hold up against Iron Fist, and the 5th Fleet was going to attack N'zoth with the intention of facing Intimidator and the entire Black Fleet supporting the Yevethan thrustships.

Super Star Destroyers have never been practical warships.