ISD Destroyed by Asteroid.

smokemare · Post by **smokemare** » 2003-01-30 12:21pm

What is the most current established reason taht the ISD in ESB gets vaped by an Asteroid ? Anyone know ? Were it's shields supposed to be down or something ?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-30 12:23pm

It didn't get vaped. It suffered damage to its bridge tower. The captain was still standing for a few seconds after the explosion.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-01-30 12:30pm

Darth Wong wrote:It didn't get vaped. It suffered damage to its bridge tower. The captain was still standing for a few seconds after the explosion.

Mike, do you have any screenshots for that? I always thought the bridge was taken out...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-30 12:38pm

jegs2 wrote:Mike, do you have any screenshots for that? I always thought the bridge was taken out...

Sure!

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Hat ... teroid.jpg

This is a shot taken approximately 2 seconds after the impact. The captain is still standing, and then recoils from one of several bright flashes. He probably dies after this from depressurization or other problems associated with the damage, but he obviously couldn't be standing there if the whole bridge tower was gone.

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-01-30 12:38pm

jegs2 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It didn't get vaped. It suffered damage to its bridge tower. The captain was still standing for a few seconds after the explosion.
Mike, do you have any screenshots for that? I always thought the bridge was taken out...

The Bridge was totally vaped...you get a two or three second look at it before it switches to Vader's reception room..(I think.)

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-01-30 12:39pm

Lack of an edit button....Gr.

Either way it wouldn't matter if the bridge was taken down, the auxiluary bridge would then assume command as it is always kept crewed with their best, the Isd would have still been operational...just deformed

Phil Skayhan · Post by **Phil Skayhan** » 2003-01-30 12:44pm

Something I never noticed before:

At about 2.8 sec on the left side of the explosion, I think I see what looks like an electrical arc.

Or am I seeing things?

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-01-30 01:01pm

btw, shouldn't this be in Pure Star Wars?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-30 02:33pm

I think it would be best to take a screen shot of the ISD before the asteroid hits and make an outline of the bridge tower.

Then take a screen shot after the asteroid hits and super impose the outline of the bridge tower on it to prove that the tower was in fact totally obscured by asteroid debris.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2003-01-30 02:40pm

According to the ICS, holonet transmissions cannot be sent thru shields, the captain of the ship which's bridge SUPPOSEDLY got vaped was in a holoconference with Vader.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-01-30 03:44pm

Also the bridge tower itself is still intact for the most part. The outline is still visible moving against the background of the Executor.

Basically it happens like this:

1) Asteriod impacts
2) Massive bang as it runs into the hull and destroys itself (possibly with the help of hull level shielding)
3) A cascade failure causes some sort of problem in the holonet transmitter
4) This porblem, or a related failure, simultaneously creates a situation which causes the ship's Captain to recoil in fear
5) Transmission is lost and the ship, still intact, keeps on truckin.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-01-30 05:02pm

You've been bullshitted. http://supreme_sheridan.tripod.com/aotc_ics_vs_tesb.html

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-30 05:31pm

Coaan wrote:The Bridge was totally vaped...you get a two or three second look at it before it switches to Vader's reception room..(I think.)

Wrong, as we still see the captain standing, and we still see the outline of the tower against the Executors engines and the explosion is consistant with an impactor that failed to penetrate the armor of the tower and exploded against it.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-30 05:31pm

The only thing we can actually get from this scene is that the comm systems where affected, anything else is speculation

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-30 11:04pm

Don't forget they couldn't operate shields during either holonet or subspace transmissions, and they didn't use conventional comm because it interfered with sensors and would have hampered the Falcon search.(stated in Galaxy Guide 3 - they used TIE shuttles to courier most of their message traffic).

Subspace comm can't operate when shields are active - stated in HttE.

Hyperwave/Holonet comm can't operate when shields are active - AoTC ICS.

Its also established in the SWE under the "holonet" entry that the TESB asteroid incident involved holonet transmissions, thus shields were down (which includes ray shields, particle shields, ands the "hull reinforcement" aspect of the particle shield.)

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2003-01-31 01:22am

I've never been able to figure out why people think that ISD got destroyed. We only ever see three ISD, in the movie, no more. Vader was only talking to three captains. When the Falcon is piggy backing the IDS, and Han says "The fleets breaking up." We see two IDSs, and both have their bridge still in tacked. And we know the one the Falcon is attached to wasn't the one hit.

This type of thing makes me wonder if these people are watching a different version of the movie that no one else saw.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-01-31 01:28am

I really need a "Thread Moved" picture.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-01-31 01:48am

OK, here we go...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-31 02:10am

I'd say that the tower had to at least be severly damaged.

And at least enough to make the bridge out of commision before switching to the back up bridge.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-01-31 02:12am

Crayz9000 wrote:OK, here we go...

[Sikorsky SkyCrane]

lol; I like it.

IIRC, the bridge tower isn't shown as being gone, only as being hit, and the shot changes before while the explosion is still there. I may be mistaken, though. I'll have to watch the scene again, obviously.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-31 02:13am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I'd say that the tower had to at least be severly damaged.

And at least enough to make the bridge out of commision before switching to the back up bridge.

Why? There was no sign of damage.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-01-31 04:53am

Why? There was no sign of damage.

Aside from the loss of communications. At worst, the asteroid impat shorted a wire on the ISD bridge tower.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-31 05:06am

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I'd say that the tower had to at least be severly damaged.

And at least enough to make the bridge out of commision before switching to the back up bridge.
Why? There was no sign of damage.

IIRC, all we could see through the explosion was the outline of the sections not hit by the asteroid. If I'm wrong about this, please correct me.

EDIT: From looking at GAT's clip, I think that is pretty much all we see.

For all we know a third of the tower could have been taken out. The damage could vary from causing minor damage and a disruption on the bridge, to major damage with the bridge totally destroyed, making the ship dead in the water until command could be transfered to the backup bridge.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-31 05:08am

KhyronTheBackstabber wrote:I've never been able to figure out why people think that ISD got destroyed. We only ever see three ISD, in the movie, no more. Vader was only talking to three captains. When the Falcon is piggy backing the IDS, and Han says "The fleets breaking up." We see two IDSs, and both have their bridge still in tacked. And we know the one the Falcon is attached to wasn't the one hit.

This type of thing makes me wonder if these people are watching a different version of the movie that no one else saw.

Partly because o fthe novelization.

Wayne Poe has a m ost excellent commentary on this common fallacy that Anti-Wars fanatics employ that goes into this in detail. I suggest anyone who faces this keep that site linked and consult it for all the proof one needs

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-31 05:10am

Mike has also brought up the point that, with the shields down, even if the asteroid destroyed the tower, we have no reason to assume this applies to the rest of the ship (his analogy, IIRC, is that carrier towers tend not to be heavily armored, etc.)

This aspect is covered in his "shield technology" page - many of the "asteroid wank" fanboys who cite the asteroid field scene never have any concept of what momentum is