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When Maul,Qui Gon and Obiwan face off in the Theed powerplant,some kind of field blocks the corridor and forces them to break off their fighting and wait.

One of the observations made was that neither Qui Gon nor Obiwan used their lightsabres to penetrate through the field,thus,trekkies have taken to saying that a ligthsabre cannot penetrate force fields of the Star Trek variety.


There could be another reason other than a ligthsabre not possessing the capability to pierce force fields.In Shadow Hunter,Darth Maul pursues Pavan into the deep undergrowth of Corsucant,and were attacked.The initial part of the ambush was by an electro-shock net.Maul declined to use his lightsabre to cut through it,as the resulting electricity from the net will still shock and stun him.

This is a more likely explaination for the Theed incident.Without knowing how,a lightsabre is probably conducive to electricity,and if either Qui Gon or Obiwan have attacked through the field,they would have been electrocuted.

The novelization clearly states that they would have been vaporized if they had simply tried to walk through the field. That is inconsistent with any field ever seen in ST. Moreover, Darth Maul tried to slice through the field, but the field repelled his weapon.

heres an idea: they couldnt force their way through the shield BECAUSE IT OVERPOWERED THEIR LIGHTSABERS. Christ, LSs dont have infinite power, and a fucking POWERPLANT would obviously provide more power then all the LSs put together.

kojikun wrote:heres an idea: they couldnt force their way through the shield BECAUSE IT OVERPOWERED THEIR LIGHTSABERS. Christ, LSs dont have infinite power, and a fucking POWERPLANT would obviously provide more power then all the LSs put together.

That's the whole fucking point we're trying to disprove,idiot!

Its just another explaination,not the right one,another one for why Qui Gon and Maul weren't playing some John Woo fight through the wall move.
As in,using a ligthsabre through that field would have totally stunned the opponents.

That means,a Jedi can still throw a lightsabre through the force field,and incapicate the controls to a Force Field generator on a starship corridor.

PainRack wrote:

kojikun wrote:heres an idea: they couldnt force their way through the shield BECAUSE IT OVERPOWERED THEIR LIGHTSABERS. Christ, LSs dont have infinite power, and a fucking POWERPLANT would obviously provide more power then all the LSs put together.

That's the whole fucking point we're trying to disprove,idiot!

Its just another explaination,not the right one,another one for why Qui Gon and Maul weren't playing some John Woo fight through the wall move.
As in,using a ligthsabre through that field would have totally stunned the opponents.

That means,a Jedi can still throw a lightsabre through the force field,and incapicate the controls to a Force Field generator on a starship corridor.

So, according to you, "we" are trying to argue for a lightsabre with infinite power?
Look, how does that make sense? In order to overpower a forcefield, a lightsabre would have to put more energy into the forcefield than its generator/capacitor device could handle. This seems unlikely in the case of such a large forcefield as was seen at Theed.
And anyways, a lightsabre couldn't be thrown through a SW forcefield any more than it could cut through another lightsabre...as was seen in TPM, they repel each other. And even if the blade could pass through, how do you expect the handle to make it through? And why the hell would a Jedi want to throw the lightsabre through a forcefield?

I think a key idea here is that SW forcefields are different than ST forcefields. If you touch a SW forcefield, you will be fucked up. As MoO stated, the TPM novelisation clearly points this out.
And even with a ST forcefield, I can't even visualize what it would look like for a lightsabre to cut through one, if it's possible at all.

Most "door" forcefields on a Fed ship wouldn't be a problem for a Jedi not because his lightsabre could cut through the field itself, but because TK can operate the controls on the other side. And, if all else fails, lightsabres can cut through the walls surrounding the forcefield.

PainRack wrote:One of the observations made was that neither Qui Gon nor Obiwan used their lightsabres to penetrate through the field,thus,trekkies have taken to saying that a ligthsabre cannot penetrate force fields of the Star Trek variety.

It's a leap of logic. Just because a saber can't penetrate a SW-level forcefield, that doesn't mean a ST forcefield can stop them.

There could be another reason other than a ligthsabre not possessing the capability to pierce force fields.In Shadow Hunter,Darth Maul pursues Pavan into the deep undergrowth of Corsucant,and were attacked.The initial part of the ambush was by an electro-shock net.Maul declined to use his lightsabre to cut through it,as the resulting electricity from the net will still shock and stun him.

The most likely explanation is that the forcefield, generated by a powerplant, was too strong for a saber.

This is a more likely explaination for the Theed incident.Without knowing how,a lightsabre is probably conducive to electricity,and if either Qui Gon or Obiwan have attacked through the field,they would have been electrocuted.

They wouldn't have been electrocuted, they'd have been burned alive.

PainRack wrote:One of the observations made was that neither Qui Gon nor Obiwan used their lightsabres to penetrate through the field,thus,trekkies have taken to saying that a ligthsabre cannot penetrate force fields of the Star Trek variety.

Pointing out the differences in power of two different force fields means nothing to them I suppose. Business as usual.

Master of Ossus wrote:The novelization clearly states that they would have been vaporized if they had simply tried to walk through the field.
That is inconsistent with any field ever seen in ST.

I think you're mistaken there. The novellisation clearly states the forcefields are infact laser beams designed to prevent unauthorised access to the inner section of the power plant, but says nothing of vaporising people

This is different to trek forcefields, which aren't lasers at all, but seem to be more of a physical barrier (ref. DS9 Facets, where Sisko/Joran repeatedly headbutts a security forcefield)

Moreover, Darth Maul tried to slice through the field, but the field repelled his weapon.

It wasn't a particularly agressive move - more a result of frustration at having to end the fight than an attempt to get through or fight through the field.

Obviously Qui-Gon was happier to use the breif respite meditate and regain some of his strength

Lord Edam wrote: I think you're mistaken there. The novellisation clearly states the forcefields are infact laser beams designed to prevent unauthorised access to the inner section of the power plant, but says nothing of vaporising people

They're not lasers because they do not exhibit the characteristics of lasers and they interact with lightsabres.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Lord Edam wrote: I think you're mistaken there. The novellisation clearly states the forcefields are infact laser beams designed to prevent unauthorised access to the inner section of the power plant, but says nothing of vaporising people

They're not lasers because they do not exhibit the characteristics of lasers and they interact with lightsabres.

They don't look that different to any scanning laser from a concert light show. What characteristics do the fields have that you think they shouldn't?

Interaction with lightsabers is irrelevant - we have no idea how lightsabers should react when encountering rapidly scanning lasers. Maybe the flare we saw when Maul briefly touched the screen with his LS is what should happen.

Lord Edam wrote:
I think you're mistaken there. The novellisation clearly states the forcefields are infact laser beams designed to prevent unauthorised access to the inner section of the power plant, but says nothing of vaporising people

Yet for some reason those "lasers" are composed of electrons:

"A stream of electrons was all that separated him [Obi-Wan] from the combatants [Maul and Qui-Gon], but it might as well have been a wall of permacrete three meters thick."

TPM HArdcover novelization, page 300, topmost paragraph.

As usual, we have Edam misrepresenting evidence (if not flat-out lying)

The forcefield was obviously a semi-transparent wall, not rock concert laser beams. And the Death Star isn't a disco ball either.

Additionally, lasers don't behave like solids, making lightsabers bounce on them.

Of course he does. HE's done it with the Bacta War ice calcs, he did it with the BDZ, why would this be any different?

Connor MacLeod wrote:

Lord Edam wrote:
I think you're mistaken there. The novellisation clearly states the forcefields are infact laser beams designed to prevent unauthorised access to the inner section of the power plant, but says nothing of vaporising people

Yet for some reason those "lasers" are composed of electrons:

"A stream of electrons was all that separated him [Obi-Wan] from the combatants [Maul and Qui-Gon], but it might as well have been a wall of permacrete three meters thick."

TPM HArdcover novelization, page 300, topmost paragraph.

Page 301, second paragraph calls them lasers, as does p 299 (first, third & fifth), 298 (2nd), 287 (first paragraph) and 286 (fourth paragraph), all TPM hardcover.

So, we've got seven narrative passages describing them as lasers, and what are clearly obi-wan's thoughts about a wall of electrons. Should we believe the objective description, or should we believe the subjective thoughts of a padawan watching his mentor getting killed?

or, alternatively, should we ignore your nitpick entirely and concentrate on the fact that MoO was mistaken when he said the novellisation clearly described the fields as vaporising anything that passed through them, or even go slightly OT for this forum and accept that every description given for the fields still makes them different to ST forcefields?

And can anyone tell me why a person like Edam isn't a VI yet. He comes here, talks bullshit, tells outright lies or just bends the evidence to suit his arguement, then fucks off for a week.

Slartibartfast wrote:As usual, we have Edam misrepresenting evidence (if not flat-out lying)

As usual you've been suckered by someone who's ignored six objective descriptions on the fields in favour of the subjective thoughts of a padawan watching his mentor get killed. oops.

The forcefield was obviously a semi-transparent wall, not rock concert laser beams.

It looked no different to something that is done very easily with a cheap laser. Anything else is merely your opinion - an opinion that cannot overide canon statements of fact. Canon descriptions has it as a laser. We know lasers can give that appearance. Accept they were lasers.

Additionally, lasers don't behave like solids, making lightsabers bounce on them.

go watch again. The lightsaber never bounces off the field. Maul touches it briefly, then removes the lightsaber.

The field looks like it ripples when mauls saber touches it

Lord Edam wrote:I think you're mistaken there. The novellisation clearly states the forcefields are infact laser beams designed to prevent unauthorised access to the inner section of the power plant, but says nothing of vaporising people

All right, smartass...then why didn't the Jedi walk through them? How is a "rock concert" laser supposed to prevent the Jedi from passing?

And how do you explain the way they turn on and off? I've never seen any lasers do that. Maybe I should attend more rock concerts.

Lord Edam wrote: So, we've got seven narrative passages describing them as lasers, and what are clearly obi-wan's thoughts about a wall of electrons. Should we believe the objective description, or should we believe the subjective thoughts of a padawan watching his mentor getting killed?

No, what you're claiming is that we should believe the "Lord Edam" Definition of the laser. Its not the first time "laser" has been taken to mean something else in SW. And lasers HAVE been inferred to be charged particle weapons, if it came down to semantics (which you seem to insist on dragging it down to.)

or, alternatively, should we ignore your nitpick entirely and concentrate on the fact that MoO was mistaken when he said the novellisation clearly described the fields as vaporising anything that passed through them, or even go slightly OT for this forum and accept that every description given for the fields still makes them different to ST forcefields?

What nitpick? I pointed out that these "lasers" were composed of something other than photons (Which is not the first instance of lasers in SW being soemthing other than particles.) Just because it doesn't fit in with your narow little explanation is no reason to toss it out.

Its simple. Burden of proof is on Edam to prove the lasers were photons. The fact the novelization calls them lasers is not proof alone to dismiss the fact that they consisted of electrons. (As we know there ARE laser weapons - or at least blaster weapons, that are composed of more than photons.) If all he can do is come up with dumb ass semantics dodges and nitpicks to back up his statement, he has no argument regardless of whether he will admit it or not (as if he ever admits error in anything. No doubt it will be someone else's fault, like Mike's. )

Lord Edam wrote:This is different to trek forcefields, which aren't lasers at all, but seem to be more of a physical barrier (ref. DS9 Facets, where Sisko/Joran repeatedly headbutts a security forcefield)

TPM novelization:

pg.299: He cleared all the gates but the last, and the lasers crisscrossed before him in a deadly wall, bringing him to an abrupt stop just short of where he needed to be.

That sure sounds like a physical barrier to me, Edam. The only other time I've known walls to be deadly is when they're about to fall on someone, or you're heading into one at about 50mph.

Well, he'll just dismiss it as a mere semantic nitpick Wayne. I mean, he's Edam and he says that because they say its lasers, its lasers. I mean, who cares what any other LFL approved source says? Edam overriders EU

Seriously, we know charged particle "laser" weapons exist (or at least ones that are mistaken or claimed to be lasers) in the EGW&T - anyone has to only check the entry to know this. I believe the SWTJ also indicates charged particle "laser" weapons.

The TPM quote indicates the field is composed of electrons (which IS a charged particle), its visible, it appears to be somewhat physical in nature, described as a wall...

But Edam says its a laser. Where's his proof? It calls it a laser.

I guess we know when we've been trumped.

Lord Edam wrote: [It looked no different to something that is done very easily with a cheap laser. Anything else is merely your opinion - an opinion that cannot overide canon statements of fact.

Hmm... the hand phasers in TNG season one look like dustbusters. Maybe they clean the corridors with them, too?

Canon descriptions has it as a laser. We know lasers can give that appearance. Accept they were lasers.

TPM novelization:

pg.299: He cleared all the gates but the last, and the lasers crisscrossed before him in a deadly wall, bringing him to an abrupt stop just short of where he needd to be.

TPM SCRIPT:

INT. THEED - POWER GENERATOR ELECTRIC BEAM - HALLWAY

The SITH LORD, followed by QUI-GON, enters a long hallway filled with a series of deadly rays that go on and off in a pulsing pattern that shoots down the corridor every minute or so.

TPM SCRIPT:

INT. THEED - POWER GENERATOR ELECTRIC BEAM - HALLWAY

The electron rays cycle as QUI-GON sits meditating. The wall of deadly rays turn away, and OBI-WAN starts running toward QUI-GON and the DARK LORD.


The electron ray gates begin to close. OBI-WAN tries to make it to the melting pit but is caught one gate short. He slides to a stop just before he hits the dealy electron field.

OOOOH

Good one Wayne. corroborating evidence.

My turn comes soon.

EGW&T page 80:

"The laser actuator combines high energy blaster gas with a large power charge. (The Actuator's prismatic crystal produces the high energy beam of charged particles coupled with light.)"

And to clarify the light aspect: "The bolt's visible light is a harmless by-product of this reaction." - EGW&T page 4.


Basically again, we've proven the use of charged particles (particularily electrons in this instance) in "laser" weapons rather than mere photons, burden of proof is on Edam to disprove otherwise (the fact the were deadly is implicit in Wayne's proof.)

For that matter, we can get into other instances of "Deadly force field" technologies as well.