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Well, the parts that people like, anyways.

What minor additions and inclusions could have made the prequel films fit with the EU somewhat better? There was a thread on TFN back in 2005, about what ROTS would be like if it was made for EU fans, though apparently a few pages in they started worshiping some stupid interdimensional alien from a Hambly book.

I'm not proposing really pedantic changes, I'm just suggesting minor things like-

*Z-95 Headhunters in the Battle of Coruscant. They look far more like the appropriate X-Wing precursor than Asterisk-Wing fighters.

* Spaarti Clone cylinders?

* Thrawn having a cameo in ROTS. He doesn't even have to do anything. There just needs to be an officer wearing the newly created Imperial uniform, and he has to be blue. It doesn't even have to be Thrawn, it could just be a random Chiss for all we know. And then everyone would watch the film twice just to catch that.

I'm sure that there is more to the EU that people enjoy than Zahn's stuff, so suggest your own.

Dreadnoughts and Spaarti clones, definitely. I'm sorry, but going from the "you fought in the Clone Wars?! [spookey/incredulous look]" and all the EU build-up to a 3-year patsy conflict (Clone War) that is actually fought against incompetent droids was a big let-down. Why is it even called the Clone War?

Z-95s suck and ARC-170s are a totally different craft to an X-wing. Are Z-95s going o work as bombers now?

Stark wrote:Z-95s suck and ARC-170s are a totally different craft to an X-wing. Are Z-95s going o work as bombers now?

Because IN THE PREQUELS they did a lot of bombing, right? Come off it; they were big fighters that did a shitty job of escorting-in Anakin's and Obi-Wan's fighters for their run on the Invisible Hand. Saxton et al put all the rest in later to clean-up the poor conceptual work by Lucas or his graphic artists; whomever thought a multi-man crewed big-ass fighter with tail guns would be best for depicting dogfighting ships.

Okay, that's true. In the movies they exist for 20s before being totally slaughtered. In that role, Z-95s would have been perfect.

Thrawn should not appear at any time during the prequels. He was not discovered by Colonel Barris until after the Empire was already established (see "Mist Encounter").

I would have liked to definitely see more clones on both sides of the conflicts and more actual devastation. Clones grown through Spaarti Cloning Cylinders were built up by the EU as a major force in the wars. Dreadnaughts in AOTC and VSDs in ROTS would have been good, as the Victory would have served as a cruiser while the Venators would be the fleet carriers.

Victories and Headhunters would be bad for the prequels, actually. I mean, a Victory is a midget ISD with silly wings, while a Headhunter is an X-wing with less wings. That's just...well, lame.

I was so glad they ignored the EU ship designs for the prequels. The ones they went with were so much better and more creative.

Darth Wong wrote:I was so glad they ignored the EU ship designs for the prequels. The ones they went with were so much better and more creative.

Yeah, every EU ship design prior to the prequels looked the same - just a lumpy, sausage shaped turd, with the only differentiating feature between them being length, width, and whether the turdy lumps were angular or rounded.

I quite liked the ARC-170 design - sure, it didn't get to show off much in the opening battle, but then again, what did? It still looked cool.

Fighter combat in the Star Wars films is a lot like real air combat in that if the enemy gets behind you and you've got no help coming, you're pretty much screwed. It's the best place to be. Think about it in the films- when has a fighter that has ever gotten an enemy on its tail (with intent to kill - so Obi-Wan chasing Jango Fett in the Geonosis belt doesn't count) managed to shake them and turn the tables?

Also, I'll add that the only EU fighter design worth a damn, even though it uses the overused "-Wing" moniker, is the K-Wing. It's picture in the NEGVV looks like something that could've easily been in the prequels, unlike the derivative and lame designs churned out before (like the Z-95 Headhunter, or the Cloakshape).

The V-19 Torrent fighters of the Clone Wars cartoon also deserve an honorable mention. But then, all the cool craft in Star Wars are based on unused concept art from the films - like the awesome Juggernaut in RotS.

And really, making a fuss about Spaartahni Cloning Chambers or whatever silly insignificant detail would be lame. Too much silly techy details would turn it into Star Trek.

One thing I really liked about ROTS - aside from the radically different but leet designs - was the colorfulness. The Venator has a design that's similar to the ISD in that you know they're from the same family, but it's not too much of an ISD rip-off. And plus those red-colored bands on its hull to separate it from the Imperial gray ISDs.

A Victory (OMG! xtreme!), even IF its stupid-looking flaps got painted red or pink or cheese, would still look lame.

(edit: those turd dreadnoughts would be pretty decent as utterly useless background fodder ships in the Battle of Coruscant, though)

The designers were really good with making the Prequel-era stuff look experimentally radical and young and dazzling than the matured-looking and worn-down looking stuff we see in the OT. I guess you could compare it to WWI and WWII stuff. In WWI, we have multicolored biplanes and the Baron in his screaming red tri-plane, with big honking zeppelins flying around. Whereas the aircraft of WWII are less bold in coloration and design than their ancestors.

Z-95 Headhunters do suck and look derivative. But isn't that the point? They're an inferior stepping stone to the Rebel Alliance's trademark X-Wings.

Though they have nothing to do with this thread, Black Sun Star Vipers were pretty cool for a pre-prequels EU ship.

But what about ships? Any other characters deserving some sort of a cameo? More deserving than the fanservice Aayla, I mean. Maybe Jorus C'baoth could have been going "lightning bolt! lightning bolt" at the Battle on Geonosis?

To the topic creator...why the fuck should one try to fit the EU to make it better? Even Zahn way back when had to have known that Lucas will do whatever he damn well pleased, regardless and that his works were at best interesting ideas. Given that more people watch the movies and have little to no idea of the EU, the EU should always conform the movies, never the other way around. Travis is a perfect example of wanting movies to fit an EU vision.

Spaarti cylinders? Seriously at best it would be some one note object in a novelization for the rabid fan. At worst, some useless noted bit that gets labeled because it was in the Thrawn trilogy.

Victory/Z-95/Dreadnaught and other Clone War EU design? Mostly shit.

The Victory-class is an ISD with flaps. It never made sense why it had that and the head design if it was a precursor. I mean did they not look at naval designs before they made that thing?

Z-95 headhunter is even worse. They literally took one of the prototype X-Wing and went "It's the precursor!!!".

And the dreadnaught look like a shit log with peanut bumps.

And no fucking goddamn Chiss. Aside from Mara Jade, this fucking race is the most wank that Zahn masturbates too constantly. They are one race in the back quarters of the galaxy and worse still Zahn went nearly the Star Trek route with them. Literally Thrawn was just their best tactician but as a race they were all around "SUPERIOR!!!!" out the ass half the times. Their ships, tactics, society, everything was better.

In fact one of the few things they did take in some ways was the slave circuit thoughts. That was a bit that was not used in SW and shown why it was shitty that have everything linked as one. The usage of it in TPM was inventive and executed well enough.

If anything, Lucas should've expanded more on the Clone Wars in scope for the movies, but that is hardly an EU related object given how many small fights we had intermixed in large campaigns.

Why not? I'm not saying the prequels should have catered to every whim of the EU writers instead of Lucas's vision. I'm just asking for suggestions of minor touches and references that could have been painlessly added into the films. At the least it's giving a few nice in-jokes which when done in moderation doesn't hurt anything. "Spaarti Clone Cylinders" could have been mentioned in a throwaway line. Some ships could have just been in the background of the Battle of Coruscant. I was wrong about Thrawn, both the ability for him to be there, and in retrospect I guess it would have been pretty wanky fanservice.

But if Aayla Secura, a character from the comics was in ROTS, then why not a few other cameos? I mean, a younger Tarkin showed up, why not other notable Imperials? Mon Mothma was to show up with her Delegation of 2000, and did in the cut scene. Was Garm Bel Iblis in it? Well, he could have just been there, and it wouldn't have drastically altered the film from Lucas's vision.

And I'm not Zahn-wanking, but no other EU examples jump to mind right now that could easily fit with the prequel films. That's why I created the thread, to ask for suggestions.

I'm not saying that the prequels should have been restructured to fit the EU (though there can be a thread about how they could have better fit with the damn things that Lucas, I don't know, put in the original trilogy. ) I'm just wondering what kind of minor elements and characters could have showed up in the prequels without giving everyone a conniption.

Is it fanservice? Yeah. But if done a) unexcessively and b) contribute to the films in a good way, then I don't see why not.

Though hell, Lucas likes Dark Empire. We should be glad that we never saw a scene of Darth Sidious traveling to Byss in ROTS where his clones were kept.

Anyways, it's all moot since Lucas will probably do all of this in the live-action show, anyways.

Darth Wong wrote:I was so glad they ignored the EU ship designs for the prequels. The ones they went with were so much better and more creative.

I wish we'd gotten more (and many different types of) Star Destroyers and the ones we got didn't land though. You suggested after AOTC that we could've gotten the Executor, or at least a proto-Executor. I never liked the BS that somehow the Empire did not get around to building anything on its scale until relative peacetime compared to the Clone Wars (you'd expect the most awesome might concentrated in this time), and AFTER the Death Star. I would've loved to piss on EUers' crap there. How awesome would it have been for the relief fleet to arrive, spearheaded by a few Clone Wars Executors and with Anakin commanding from the bridge?

Vympel wrote:I quite liked the ARC-170 design - sure, it didn't get to show off much in the opening battle, but then again, what did? It still looked cool.

Fighter combat in the Star Wars films is a lot like real air combat in that if the enemy gets behind you and you've got no help coming, you're pretty much screwed. It's the best place to be. Think about it in the films- when has a fighter that has ever gotten an enemy on its tail (with intent to kill - so Obi-Wan chasing Jango Fett in the Geonosis belt doesn't count) managed to shake them and turn the tables.

I would rather they showed ArC-170s actually going on swooping torpedo runs and we'd gotten a close look at the proto-TIEs, the Nimbus V-Wing, for the dogfight.

Battlehymn Republic wrote:But what about ships? Any other characters deserving some sort of a cameo? More deserving than the fanservice Aayla, I mean. Maybe Jorus C'baoth could have been going "lightning bolt! lightning bolt" at the Battle on Geonosis?

Sorry, but this is Zahn-wank fan-service. As pointed out, ACCORDING TO ZAHN, C'boath is already dead from the Outbound Flight. Thrawn is still on his backwater shithole. And I don't really care for the Zahn fan service as much as its stupid that its called the "Clone Wars" when the clones were good guys and its a pipsqueak 3-year patsy war.

I agree with Galvatron and others that the original idea for the Clone Wars lasting a long-ass time, and the prequels beginning in the midst of it, would've been preferable (and I dunno, clones as bad guys so it actually makes sense). By the end of the prequels, I wouldn't even mind if Palpatine set up a patsy civil war after the Clone Wars proper in order to push the militarized Republic fully into the Empire and kill all the Jedi like Lucas actually made it. But this was definitely minimalistic compared to the thematic scale previously implied, including by Lucas himself (and again, the name makes no fucking sense).

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Though hell, Lucas likes Dark Empire. We should be glad that we never saw a scene of Darth Sidious traveling to Byss in ROTS where his clones were kept.

You should change your username to "Zahnlove."

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Why not? I'm not saying the prequels should have catered to every whim of the EU writers instead of Lucas's vision. I'm just asking for suggestions of minor touches and references that could have been painlessly added into the films. At the least it's giving a few nice in-jokes which when done in moderation doesn't hurt anything. "Spaarti Clone Cylinders" could have been mentioned in a throwaway line. Some ships could have just been in the background of the Battle of Coruscant. I was wrong about Thrawn, both the ability for him to be there, and in retrospect I guess it would have been pretty wanky fanservice.

Wow, that is worse thinking then ST geeks who were in awe that Worf's ancestor existed in ST6. At least Worf was a major character, this is pulling shit from the depths of EU's ass for a guffaw from the minority.

But if Aayla Secura, a character from the comics was in ROTS, then why not a few other cameos? I mean, a younger Tarkin showed up, why not other notable Imperials? Mon Mothma was to show up with her Delegation of 2000, and did in the cut scene. Was Garm Bel Iblis in it? Well, he could have just been there, and it wouldn't have drastically altered the film from Lucas's vision.

Because Garm is lower then Mon Mothma on any scale barring the rabid Zahn fan, and Aayla was there for eye candy and served no other purpose. Somehow I doubt Garm can fit the role.

And I'm not Zahn-wanking, but no other EU examples jump to mind right now that could easily fit with the prequel films. That's why I created the thread, to ask for suggestions.

I'm not saying that the prequels should have been restructured to fit the EU (though there can be a thread about how they could have better fit with the damn things that Lucas, I don't know, put in the original trilogy. ) I'm just wondering what kind of minor elements and characters could have showed up in the prequels without giving everyone a conniption.

Is it fanservice? Yeah. But if done a) unexcessively and b) contribute to the films in a good way, then I don't see why not.

Though hell, Lucas likes Dark Empire. We should be glad that we never saw a scene of Darth Sidious traveling to Byss in ROTS where his clones were kept.

Anyways, it's all moot since Lucas will probably do all of this in the live-action show, anyways.

Given each of your suggestions are literally "Stuff that Zahn made!!!"...yeah, you're going to do better to back up the statement that you are not Zahn wanking.

And why should he cater to fanservice? Because the books sold well to the minority of the fanbase? And your ideas being a good one? Given some of the statements is not indicative of such, thus you have to go further to demonstrate your idea is fucking good idea.

And you can demonstrate he's going to do any of this in the TV show? Oh wait, it's you pulling shit from the depths of your ass.

I haven't even read the Thrawn Trilogy.

At least have add-on's or changes LOOK GOOD or SEEM COOL on their own merit. Not simply because HEH HEH LOOK ZAHN INVENTED THIS LOL. I would've liked the Clone Wars to be different regardless of what Zahn said or did. I don't give a shit about Dreadnoughts and VSDs and Z-95s, because they look like shit on their own merit, as everyone pointed out. Now the Executor, as I said, and Mike did on his AOTC page, would've been a cool add-on on its own merits.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:You should change your username to "Zahnlove."

More like Zannlove! Brrrzzzing!

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Not simply because HEH HEH LOOK ZAHN INVENTED THIS LOL.

Oh believe me, there's plenty more to plumb from the EU. A squad of clone pilots named Rogue Squadron, perhaps? Sate Pestage, Ars Dangor, and the Privy Council assembling with Palpatine? Quinlan fucking Vos?

Given each of your suggestions are literally "Stuff that Zahn made!!!"...yeah, you're going to do better to back up the statement that you are not Zahn wanking.

See above. Okay, hm, I wonder how we can shoehorn Jerec into ROTS! And all of the Jedis who managed to escape the Purge! Maybe we see the failed mutant son of the Emperor! I'm sure we can squeeze in something from Matthew "this is how it feels like" Stover if it is to your liking. The possibilities are literally endless!

No, seriously, if you don't like Zahn's stuff then suggest things by other authors that are more suitable. The idea just popped up when I saw Tarkin and the Death Star prototype. If we could see a younger version of a prominent Imperial, why not another? It could be as easily as say Vader reviewing a group of newly minted officers, and there would be a blue-skinned one among them. But enough of the Rutian Twi'lek wank. If you don't like my proposals, add your own, because that's what the OP was inviting for anyways. I wasn't talking about how great my ideas were, I was asking for better ones. Zahn's stuff just came to me because some of it seemed quite appropriate for the prequel era. Unfortunately, I'm not quite so familiar with it. So please kindly suggest what you think is better. There are no wrong answers!

Ghost Rider wrote:Wow, that is worse thinking then ST geeks who were in awe that Worf's ancestor existed in ST6. At least Worf was a major character, this is pulling shit from the depths of EU's ass for a guffaw from the minority.

Apparently the contradictions between cloning in the films with the depiction in the novels seem to be a problem with fans. It could have been dealt with easily. Probably also mentioning that the longer gestation period meant that the clones were more likely to turn up healthy and sane. Just a line or two. And then you would have to deal with a lot of stupid complaints.

Because Garm is lower then Mon Mothma on any scale barring the rabid Zahn fan, and Aayla was there for eye candy and served no other purpose. Somehow I doubt Garm can fit the role.

Dude, I'm just saying that there could have been a guy present with a beard. 's no biggie. It's not like he's going to go off on some speech on how the Corellian people are in support of Mon Mothma's ideals. What's wrong with a one-second cameo?

And why should he cater to fanservice?

No. The prospect of Lucas adding a whole slew of references into his films is unlikely to begin with. Which is why it didn't happen in reality. But I'm just saying hypothetically, what bits of the EU could have been painlessly added had Lucas cared at all about the EU (or knew that it existed). Fit in painlessly in a way that wouldn't detract with Lucas's vision, nor lose the casual audience in the process. Just because you detest the EU doesn't mean it's nonexistent. In any case this is a hypothetical and not an advocacy for anything, anyways.

And your ideas being a good one?

'Natch.

Given some of the statements is not indicative of such, thus you have to go further to demonstrate your idea is fucking good idea.

Again, I'm not saying that it necessarily should have happened. I'm just asking how it could have happened had it did. And what people 'round this here parts would have liked to see had it did. There are loads of proposals on this board about how the films or the series could have been changed, so I don't see how asking people for opinions is going against either the spirit or the letter of the rules.

And you can demonstrate he's going to do any of this in the TV show? Oh wait, it's you pulling shit from the depths of your ass.

I'll get back to you when it's on the airwaves. Did he make any deals with any networks yet? I hope it's on TNT! 'Cause they know Drama.

Battlehymn Republic wrote: See above. Okay, hm, I wonder how we can shoehorn Jerec into ROTS!

While Jerec was rather cool, and Christopher Neame is a competant and working actor who'd likely be quite happy to do Star Wars (again), it'd probably be better to just plunk him on the Jedi Council in one of the first two prequels.

Of course, going by his backstory, he might be a good villain for the SW live action TV show. Mainly because, if there's one thing Christopher Neame has done. It's play villains on TV.

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Though hell, Lucas likes Dark Empire. We should be glad that we never saw a scene of Darth Sidious traveling to Byss in ROTS where his clones were kept.

I think that'd be a rather good thing, provided it were just a minor shot. The fleet over Byss in Dark Empire was rather impressive. Palpatine's shuttle flying through it at some point would be a sweet bit of starship porn.

Battlehymn Republic wrote:I'm sure that there is more to the EU that people enjoy than Zahn's stuff, so suggest your own.

Well, a lot of people seem to really like KotOR, so... perhaps a picture of Darth Revan in Palpatine's office in RotS? Man, that would have been so painfully awful

Or, a certain dialogue in RotS could have went like this:
Mace Windu: In the name of the Galactic Senate, chancellor Palpatine Revanson...
Palpatine: *wink wink*
Fans: OMFG *speculates*
Mace: ... you are under arrest!

They did put the Dash Rendar's "Outrider" in the special edition of ANH, where it was pretty unnoticeable, though...

Battlehymn Republic wrote:No, seriously, if you don't like Zahn's stuff then suggest things by other authors that are more suitable. The idea just popped up when I saw Tarkin and the Death Star prototype. If we could see a younger version of a prominent Imperial, why not another? It could be as easily as say Vader reviewing a group of newly minted officers, and there would be a blue-skinned one among them. But enough of the Rutian Twi'lek wank. If you don't like my proposals, add your own, because that's what the OP was inviting for anyways.

To paraphrase Ghost Rider, fuuuuuuck the EU. Why did we see Tarkin and not an EU character? Why SHOULD we? "Tarkin" in ROTS was only there for about 3 seconds, and was never stated in the film that it WAS him. That and...Tarkin was actually a FILM character, so he'd belong there.

The EU should stay firmly in its place. That being; only paid attention to where the films are silent.

The name Clone Wars sounds dumb, but its probably called the Clone Wars because the Clones won. Had the CIS won, it would probably be the Droid Wars.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:But this was definitely minimalistic compared to the thematic scale previously implied, including by Lucas himself

What are you saying here? Just because the Clone Wars was 3 years long it suddenly minimalistic?

The implication UP to the PT has always been that the Clone Wars was a)a massive galaxy-shaking event, not some brushfire war involving just a couple then thousand systems (remember the scale of the OR) and b) the clones, or more properly, the clone masters, were the BAD guys.
And even for a dinky few dozen thousand systems I DO find three years minimalistic, yes.

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Some ships could have just been in the background of the Battle of Coruscant.

If the EU artists wanted their ships to show up at the Battle of Coruscant, they should have drawn them so they wouldn't look like shit.