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Has anyone read Path of Destruction? I'm interested in the character of Darth Bane but I'm less than thrilled by Karpyshyn's writing.

I've read a little of the Mass Effect novel and found it to be rather mediocre sci-fi. My impression of his writing is that he's got a major case of over-exposition.

I found Path of Destruction rather poorly thought-out, but the writing didn't bother me. What do you mean by "over-exposition"?

And I thought the Mass Effect novel was horrible.

Well, he was the writer in charge of Knights of the Old Republic, so he's not all bad.

Personally, I liked Path of Destruction, but thought it was weighed down by what's already been written of the Battle of Ruusan and his need to work with it, even to the small degree he actually did. Beyond a bit of plot oddities, it's not quite up there with the Zahn or Allston books, but also way above Traviss or Denning's latest books.

But if you want a closer look at Darth Bane, Path of Destruction and the new Rule of Two are really the only places to go for it.

Master_Baerne wrote:I found Path of Destruction rather poorly thought-out, but the writing didn't bother me. What do you mean by "over-exposition"?

And I thought the Mass Effect novel was horrible.

Well, by "over-exposition" I mean something along the writing style where Drew Karpyshyn sits down and tells you a lot about what's going on and why but doesn't really show you much at all. When I tried to read Mass Effect I was really amazed at how much he had to sit around and explain things to me.

Think Doc Brown from Back to the Future, that's an example of exposition done surprisingly well.

TC Pilot wrote:Well, he was the writer in charge of Knights of the Old Republic, so he's not all bad.

Personally, I liked Path of Destruction, but thought it was weighed down by what's already been written of the Battle of Ruusan and his need to work with it, even to the small degree he actually did. Beyond a bit of plot oddities, it's not quite up there with the Zahn or Allston books, but also way above Traviss or Denning's latest books.

But if you want a closer look at Darth Bane, Path of Destruction and the new Rule of Two are really the only places to go for it.

That's a shame. I thought the Battle of Ruusan comic was kind of dumb. So if PoD was bad it's not entirely his fault.

PoD is one of the better novels of the last two years (although with SW-EU that doesn't mean much), although a little bit short for my taste. The first two thirds are really good, but get dragged down by the final part.

Which, coincidentally, is about where the comics come into play. It's not entirely the comics' fault, of course. He did make some, in my opinion, poor choices of his own, mainly after Bane's training, but Bane's actual character development at the start and middle were good enough on their own that it compensates for the final parts of the novel.

The Battle of Ruusan is one of the most stupidly and absurdly depicted EU events. Wooden battleships! Giant ancient-style melee battles!

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Battle of Ruusan is one of the most stupidly and absurdly depicted EU events. Wooden battleships! Giant ancient-style melee battles!

Is there any basis for claiming that the whole comic was so absurd because it was sort of a historical document, obscured and exaggerated by time? Like the adventures of Mace Windu during the Clone Wars cartoon show?

It read like a bad fantasy novel.

Except the Mace Windu cartoon was explained as the fanciful depiction of a child, not a competent historian. Incompetent historians and historical authors can explain much of the EU, but one who couldn't figure out that classical era combat weapons and tactics on a giant field were absurd, even for Jedi and Sith?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Except the Mace Windu cartoon was explained as the fanciful depiction of a child, not a competent historian. Incompetent historians and historical authors can explain much of the EU, but one who couldn't figure out that classical era combat weapons and tactics on a giant field were absurd, even for Jedi and Sith?

As much as I liked the book, and appreciate the background on Bane, I have to say that I agree with you IP. Except I think even worse than the depiction of the fighting on Ruusan were some of the explanations.

I am reminded of Darth Bane demonstrating the tecnique used to destroy the Forest the Jedi were hiding in. At this point everyone reading this book as to be screaming inside their head why the Sith hadn't used any form of orbital bombardment, especially with their supposed fleet dominance in the orbit above. When the Sith devastated the Forest and chased the Jedi into the open, we saw the Sith breaking off the attack in order to pursue the grand classical battle. It was as cringeworthy as Klingons in TNG-era trek, they did it out some some stupid need for honor. Unfortunately Bane, whose strategy was so simple a child could have come up with it, ended up looking like a master tactician compared to the Brotherhood. For me it was at least a little bit redeemed when Bane realized that this was stupidity and orchestrated the annhilation of all those Sith.

Was it too hard to devise a scenario where ground battles were necessary due to the widespread use of theater shields to prevent bombardment combined with fleet engagements in the skies? Was it too hard to have the lightsaber duels be dispersed amongst a more modern ground war complete with artillery and heavy armor? It is Star WARS after all.

I've always regarded the visual style and technological setting of the Jedi vs. Sith comics, wherein the Battle of Ruusan was first shown, to be among the low points of the EU in terms of continuity. If can only guess that the writers and illustrators thought that their intended audience was so juvenile that the only way to effectively convey the idea that the comics were set long before the movies was to make everything, from starships to clothing to Coruscant itself, look so laughably primitive that there could be no doubt of the fact. Either that, or the creative staff failed to grasp the concept of technological stasis so spectacularly that they actually thought having space-worthy galleons was logically preferable to the idea that technology does not progress at a rate comparable to twentieth century Earth indefinitely.

Drew K's annoying habit of overpowering his characters prevents me from enjoying them. Revan is the SW's biggest Gary-Stu. At least Tim Zahn's Thrawn was outclassed in physical and Force-related combat...

Bane's overpowered too. But if we exclude that, it was a decent novel.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Battle of Ruusan is one of the most stupidly and absurdly depicted EU events. Wooden battleships! Giant ancient-style melee battles!

Couldn't agree more, though the prevalent use of spears as a weapon during the Great Hyperspace War makes me cringe just as much.

I thought the first Darth Bane book was a decent read, at least it was a more realistic description of the battle when compared to the comic. Though I did not like the one that just came as much. Its story wasn't as interesting as Path of Destruction and it just felt to me as if nothing really important happened in the book.

Great Hyperspace War is equally dumb. A technologically static civilization with practical one-day travel to the Sith Empire (an actual major plot premise) somehow doesn't notice it for milennia? And moreover, it is a threat to the Republic, despite having a few hundred worlds? The Chommell Sector is bigger than the entire Sith Empire.

PoD absolutely sucks. Not only does it shit all over the exponentially superior Jedi vs. Sith, it's very, very poorly written.

There is literally nothing redeeming about the book.

No, wait: I liked the name he gave the healer.

I have often wondered if there is some kind of rule for comic artists in the EU forcing them to depict the events that happen thousands of years before movies as sword and sorcery things, with hovercraft and spaceships thrown in for flavour.

I found the depiction of the Massassi hordes in the Great Hyperspace War as Mordor in space to be incredibly stupid. That the very same thing happens in Jedi vs Sith is bloody annoying (and I definitely don't even want to think about the Jedi fauns with their spaceship powered with pixie dust).

I personally enjoyed Path of Destruction, even if some things imposed by the battle of Rusaan shown in the comic feel stupid (the orbital bombardment thing being the most painful). At the very least, it tells us that basic Sith troopers actually use blasters and that the melee weapons are reserved for the cannon fodder Darksiders. It is still far from realistic, but less mind-nimbingy stupid than what we got in Jedi versus Sith.

Tales of the Jedi was a He-man comic accidentally misprinted as Star Wars.

Someone needs to return Star Wars to the glimpse we saw in ESB instead of inventing new styles for how technology and characters should appear. Star Wars is not Star Trek technobabble found in some EU books nor is it recycled He-man comics like ToTJ.

Alexian Cale wrote:Revan is the SW's biggest Gary-Stu

Revan is the main character of an RPG, so by definition almost has to be a Gary-Stu. Since the player controls all of Revan's actions, it's rather hard to assign character flaws.

Oherwise, I'll more or less agree with TC - first parts good, last part not so much. I there were definitely some bad decisions, in writing and plot in that last third.

Revan is the main character of an RPG, so by definition almost has to be a Gary-Stu. Since the player controls all of Revan's actions, it's rather hard to assign character flaws.

To be fair Revan was alright in KoToR 1. He was described as a Jedi turned succesful warlord. It was KoToR 2 that termed into him into Revanus Alexandendro Messiah Skywalker.

000 wrote:PoD absolutely sucks. Not only does it shit all over the exponentially superior Jedi vs. Sith, it's very, very poorly written.

There is literally nothing redeeming about the book.

No, wait: I liked the name he gave the healer.

Jedi vs. Sith was a fucking turd. Take Stradley's cock out of your mouth before talking, thanks.

Sarevok wrote:

Revan is the main character of an RPG, so by definition almost has to be a Gary-Stu. Since the player controls all of Revan's actions, it's rather hard to assign character flaws.

To be fair Revan was alright in KoToR 1. He was described as a Jedi turned succesful warlord. It was KoToR 2 that termed into him into Revanus Alexandendro Messiah Skywalker.

Yeah, KOTOR 2 was a fanfic of KOTOR 1.

Darth Smiley wrote:

Alexian Cale wrote:Revan is the SW's biggest Gary-Stu

Revan is the main character of an RPG, so by definition almost has to be a Gary-Stu. Since the player controls all of Revan's actions, it's rather hard to assign character flaws.

I respectfully disagree; Revan's status as the main character of an RPG doesn't translate to "let's make him a god in every category known to man!!1!" -- Drew Karpyshyn is the lead writer in Mass Effect, yet the central character, Shepard, and yet this mistake isn't made. Certainly he can become unparalleled in action, but indeed, he's never named as "the best" -- Saren is identified as the most formidable of all Spectres. Likewise, consider that the Systems Alliance and even the Council itself is outmatched by the potency of Sovereign, who manhandles the entire fleet.

What the writers of KotOR and KotOR II tried to do was combine Anakin Skywalker, Grand Admiral Thrawn, and Emperor Palpatine into one single entity: you get a peerless warrior with a peerless knack for strategy, who also carries an incredible gift for manipulation and persuasion.

I can understand that they can't assign flaws. But they didn't (and shouldn't) have attempted to eliminate any possibility of weakness.